Author Topic: The Quran, a miracle/sign: in which sense? epilepsy?  (Read 7271 times)

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Offline mokko

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The Quran, a miracle/sign: in which sense? epilepsy?
« on: August 26, 2012, 02:50:24 PM »
I would like to know what precise sense you can give to the statement "the Quran is a sign of Allah". I have 2 possible meanings:

1) It is just a miraculous sign. Affirm it, but do not try to understand this statement further.

2) Muhammad received Allah's revelation by way of a Geschwind syndrome (a form of epilepsy) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschwind_syndrome), or a similar rare mental condition, which explains his hyper-religiosity, hyper-morality, hyper-graphy, deep intuitions  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe_epilepsy#Social_and_artistic_influence) and also visions of angels ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Migraine_aura.jpg  ). Moreover, his revelation happens to be very similar to the Ebionite doctrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites#Islam), a doctrine held by the cousin of his wife, Khadija ( http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBwaraqa.html ).

The statement in 2) is not incompatible with an Islamic conception of miracles (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occasionalism#Islamic_theological_schools): to count as a miracle, a phenomenon does not need to contradict explanations from science, medicine, or history.

Muhammad was certainly of good faith, he was certainly not a poet nor a liar, far from that. He received revelation from Allah (by the way, note that this term has never-ever been defined with precision by anyone, without inducing plenty of logical paradoxes, which might also be the sign of some deep truth), not out of his own conscience. Muhammad was certainly justified in believing his revelation, and in propagating it, especially because Wikipedia was not accessible in Arabia in the 7th century (his wife was his only source of information, and she did not have internet at home).

which meaning do you prefer? 1) or 2)?  Is 2) "un-Islamic"? Why? Do you have another meaning?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 03:25:23 PM by mokko »

Offline Egyptian

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Re: The Quran, a miracle/sign: in which sense? epilepsy?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2012, 05:40:35 PM »

Greetings , mokko

1- Affirming the Quran (or the word of God) as a miraculous sign , without trying to understand ,upon what basis it is a sign ,is a clear indication of unconditional faith.

2- I don't think it is correct to say "Islam happens to be very similar to the Ebionite doctrine" ... not only the Islamic view of Jesus conflicts with the Ebionites' views regarding the virgin birth ,the crucifixion ,the resurrection but also the thing that seems that they share Islam with "Jesus humanity " is not exclusive to them but there are other Christians "Unitarians" who denied his divinity as well.


to be continued.

Offline mokko

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Re: The Quran, a miracle/sign: in which sense? epilepsy?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2012, 05:06:50 AM »

1- Affirming the Quran (or the word of God) as a miraculous sign , without trying to understand ,upon what basis it is a sign ,is a clear indication of unconditional faith.

I am not asking for a basis for this claim, but for a precision of its meaning. It is a different approach. For example, consider the statement: "the sky is blue".

basis: "I saw it". My experience is a basis for my claim.

meaning: "sky=what lies above the surface of the earth"  "blue= radiation of wavelength 450–495 nm". Therefore, one possible precised meaning is: "what lies above the surface of the earth emits a radiation of wavelength 450–495 nm".

Without some knowledge of (elementary) physics, I could not give a more precise meaning of this statement.  I am not giving a basis to the statement, I am just giving a (hopefully) more precise formulation, that could help other people understand it.

Likewise, my statement in 2) in the first post is an attempt to precise the meaning of the claim "the Quran is a sign of Allah", it does not give a basis for it.


2- I don't think it is correct to say "Islam happens to be very similar to the Ebionite doctrine" ... not only the Islamic view of Jesus conflicts with the Ebionites' views regarding the virgin birth ,the crucifixion ,the resurrection but also the thing that seems that they share Islam with "Jesus humanity " is not exclusive to them but there are other Christians "Unitarians" who denied his divinity as well.

Certainly, and it would be interesting to see what kind of doctrines Muhammad heard about (since his childhood, because human memory can be kept in the unconscious). For example, do we find somewhere allusions to Paul the Apostle's doctrine? (the most influential version of Christianity). It would be interesting, but it is not my main point in this thread.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 05:25:08 AM by mokko »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: The Quran, a miracle/sign: in which sense? epilepsy?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 10:17:07 AM »
Peace be upon you Mokko,

I've responded to your post at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,137.msg369.html#msg369.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: The Quran, a miracle/sign: in which sense? epilepsy?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 10:21:23 AM »
Mokko, anybody can easily tell the Noble Qur'an is the Word of God and not man from it's eloquence and flawlessness from the literary aspect. Even the disbelievers of Quraysh, who were the best poets to ever roam the Earth, knew certainly that the Noble Qur'an could not possibly be the word of any man, but the Word of the Almighty Himself.

In addition, God the Almighty gave Islam Prophet Muhammad (may Almighty God bless him and grant him peace) a specific blessing or characteristic; that is to say, they both have the power to guide people of all times, and not just the nations at the time. Hence, God, the Most Glorified and Exalted, showed us His divinity in the Noble Qur'an in scientific and historical miracles, showing that the Noble Qur'an could be of no other origin save from God the Almighty Himself. www.miraclesofthequran.com

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: The Quran, a miracle/sign: in which sense? epilepsy?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 12:21:41 PM »
You guys are seriously epically failing at trying to disprove Islam and show why it is not true. Brothers Osama Abdallah, Zakir Naik, Yusuf Estes, Abdur Raheem Green, Hussein Yee, Tawfique Choudhary, Zaghloul En-Naggar and all other Islamic preachers never faced any question or statement against Islam without an answer or a statement proving Islam to be untrue. All what you challenge them with, they have came across and even worse. So just stop or at least be logical and see both points of view before commenting against Islam.