Author Topic: A question which should leave Shiites speachless  (Read 25232 times)

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Offline Black Muslim

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2014, 02:25:45 am »
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1-  Do you believe that the Prophet got bewitched from a Jew who allegedly stole a piece of his hair?
Just a question : Why do you find it unrealistic while Quran says so about the prophet Musa peace upon him ?
Surah Taha sign 66 ((He said, "Rather, you throw." And suddenly their ropes and staffs seemed to him from their magic that they were moving [like snakes].))
There is no contradiction between this and "Isma" of the prophets as the narration of bewitchment doesn't say in anyway that the prophet peace upon him would tell wrong things about Allah . It doesn't matter what they would do , Allah will protect the message and the prophet will deliver it . This is a page about "Isma" , please read it :
http://articles.islamweb.net/media/index.php?page=article&lang=A&id=13441

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2-  Do you believe that Aisha used to have her sister and/or cousin suckle adults to allow them to enter her house after the Prophet died?
Where is this one ? The one I know is a specific judgement for a specific companion and none else . This is the answer here :
http://www.almanhaj.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11650
http://fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=200111

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3-  Do you believe that a she-monkey was stoned to death by a group of monkeys because the she-moneky committed adultery?
The narration isn't to the prophet peace upon him , neither is it to a companion , but rather to a follower "Tab'i" . That was his own opinion and it doesn't mean the narrator made a mistake .
http://www.elforkan.com/7ewar/showthread.php/1132-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B1%D8%AF-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%89-%D8%B4%D8%A8%D9%87%D8%A9-%D8%AD%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%AB-%D8%B1%D8%AC%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%B1%D8%AF%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B2%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9
Not to mention that it is indeed possible . A little look at a documentary about monkeys should help :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPznMbNcfO8
Even monkeys don't approve of betrayal of spouse .

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4-  Do you believe Imam Bukhari memorized 600,000 Hadiths?  If so, how was that verified according to you?
If a narration is mentioned with multiple different chains , each chain is considered one Hadith . Not to mention that among them there are weak and fabricated ones which he didn't mention in his Sahih but rather in "The weak chain" (Assilsila Adda'iifa) .
http://www.eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?11542-%DF%CA%C8-%C7%E1%D6%C7%E1-%DF%ED%DD-%C7%D3%CA%D8%C7%DA-%C7%E1%C8%CE%C7%D1%ED-%ED%D8%C7%E1%DA-600-%C3%E1%DD-%D1%E6%C7%ED%C9-!!!

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5-  Do you believe Imam Ahmed memorized 1,000,000 Hadiths?  If so, how was that verified according to you?
http://islamqa.info/ar/171298
The same as the above . But seriously , if the reason you refuse this is because you don't see it makes sense or it isn't possible , I also won't believe these people reported to speak a wide variety of languages !
http://sciencefocus.com/qa/what-record-most-languages-spoken-one-person
Notice that one of them was tested on TV .

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6-  Do you believe the dajjal (anti-Christ) is currently chained in an Island somewhere in lala land?  The Sahih volumes report on Muslims who actually saw him.  I even saw a Youtube video in the past suggesting that it might've been England.
England or not , that's a personal opinion which might be true or not . And I say "So what of it ?" . And before you just decide that something is wrong and talk about it in such a manner - lala land ?! - why not ask or see for yourself if you misunderstood something ? Again , what of it ? Do you find it impossible to believe ? And on what bases do you think that ? Allah can do anything ? He keeps this man alive until he's released as a "Fitnah" to test people and see the real believers . Do you say Allah can't do that ? Or maybe you say we would have already found him ? Seriously ? You don't believe it because you can't find him with those so called satellites ? Here's a gift my friend : Discovery of a cave with over 51 thousand square meters in China . It even has its own climate .
http://www.eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?54716-%C7%DF%CA%D4%C7%DD-%DF%E5%DD-%E3%D3%C7%CD%CA%E5-51000%E32&highlight=%C7%DF%CA%D4%C7%DD+%DF%E5%DD

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7-  Do you believe Prophet Moses punched the Angel of Death in the eye when he came to take his soul, because Moses' life has expired?  Allah Almighty supposedly extended Moses' life because of this punch.  Yet, this CLASHES WITH THE HOLY QURAN about none can advance nor reduce their appointed time!  Everyone is scheduled to die at their due time.
http://fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=78366
http://www.eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?21184-%C7%E1%D1%CF-%DA%E1%EC-%E3%E4-%C3%E4%DF%D1-%DD%DE%C3-%DA%ED%E4-%E3%E1%DF-%C7%E1%E3%E6%CA
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?t=178585
When we see something seemingly contradicting Quran we look into it . If it's unauthorized then it's immediately discarded . If it is , we could be misunderstanding it and in this case we look at a proper explanation to it .

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Furthermore, we never see the so-called "Mawdu (injected, fabricated)" hadiths ever burnt or removed permanently.  They still remain in all of the hadiths collections.  They still endure.  Why?  Isn't it because you're giving nothing but opinionated nonsense that not everyone of your "scholars" agrees with you on?  So at the end of the day, you guys are playing nothing but games of opinions on the expense of Islam.

1-  If the hadith is a lie, then why not remove it??

2-  If the hadith is a doubt, why not remove it??

3-  Did not Allah Almighty forbid us to live on conjectures, in the Holy Quran?
Are you serious ?! You want to change what someone wrote ?! Some scientists used to believe matter is formed of sand , water , fire , and wind . We still see what they wrote and it isn't removed . We are not to change what someone has written . Scholars declare weak as weak , fabricated as fabricated , but none of them would say "Remove it" because that would be dishonesty .

I don't know how you talk about emotional attacks while you call whatever you don't agree with as rubbish and nonsense .
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 03:41:37 am by Black Muslim »

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2014, 02:32:54 am »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers "Black Muslim" and ThatMuslimGuy,

Let's take the Sahih (authentic, true) Hadiths.  Forget the Mawdu (injected and fabricated ones).  Let's take the Sahih ones, because the link that I gave above, which is also as follows, is about Sahih narrations from the Sahih volumes:

Again not to be rude but you clearly dont have a clue about Usool Al-Hadeeth. On what basis are these Sahih Hadeeth now Mawdu?

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http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1166.msg4047.html#msg4047

1-  Do you believe that the Prophet got bewitched from a Jew who allegedly stole a piece of his hair?

Source

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2-  Do you believe that Aisha used to have her sister and/or cousin suckle adults to allow them to enter her house after the Prophet died?

Source

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3-  Do you believe that a she-monkey was stoned to death by a group of monkeys because the she-moneky committed adultery?

Ive seen you cite this many times and its pretty hilarious due the fact that you completely misout where it is in Saheeh Al-Bukhari or why Bukhari put it in.

Its mentioned in the chapter:

Chapter: Al-Qasama in the Pre-Islamic Period of Ignorance

And the following chapter is:

Chapter: The advent of the Prophet (saws)

Everything under this chapter is meant to show how fffed up pre-Islam arabia is. Then the next one is when the Prophet came things changed.

So lets take the narration:

Narrated `Amr bin Maimun:
During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

Amr Bin Maimun is describing a time before Islam. Showing how messed up it is. He was a tabi' and it is simply his opinion.


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4-  Do you believe Imam Bukhari memorized 600,000 Hadiths?  If so, how was that verified according to you?

5-  Do you believe Imam Ahmed memorized 1,000,000 Hadiths?  If so, how was that verified according to you?

Cant comment as havnt researched it.

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6-  Do you believe the dajjal (anti-Christ) is currently chained in an Island somewhere in lala land?  The Sahih volumes report on Muslims who actually saw him.  I even saw a Youtube video in the past suggesting that it might've been England.

Yes. I remember the hadeeth is Sahih.



Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2014, 02:51:38 am »
xxx

I duno what to say man. The lack of knowledge of Usool Al-Hadeeth has blown my mind.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2014, 09:48:41 am »
As'salamu Alaikum everyone,

One thing that I love about debating openly in a forum, vs just debating privately in an email with a bunch of people, is that everyone gets to see the level of absurdity and intelligence certain people have.

You see people, I used to get dismissed as a heretic and even an apostate at times when having these types of debates with people via emails.  But here in the open, the ludicrous clowns (don't mean the two brothers that I am debating above) would hold their tongues, because they know they have the public watching them.

I want everyone to compare the arguments for themselves and see the Truth for themselves.  I am working very hard on finishing my project of translating the "The Great Miracle" [2] book by Mr. Adnan Al Rifae.  It's 653 pages long, and it has 1000s of examples that thoroughly demonstrate the Glorious Quran Numerical and Text Miracles.

The ludicrous schools make claims about the Holy Quran that It has many missing verses.  The Miracle of the Holy Quran thoroughly shows to even those who have the least brain that the Holy Quran is

1-  Not only perfectly preserved.

2-  But the way it's been written in its complex form shows that it is indeed exactly how Allah Almighty has It written in the Divine Preserved Tablet.

3-  It is impossible to be the work of men, especially when we see the Overwhelming Numerical and Scientific Miracles that exist in It by the THOUSANDS!

******4-  The Holy Quran was very carefully and meticulously written down.  Its Text isn't just your ordinary laymen writings.  It's very complex, and very carefully and meticulously hand-written.  This thoroughly disproves even many of our stories about how and when and by whom the Holy Quran was written down by.



Much of our historical writings have conspiracies in them about Islam, Prophet Muhammad, his Companions, and the Holy Quran.  The Glorious Quran's #19 Great Miracle in Its Text, which Allah Almighty called It "One of the Mightiest Ones" [2] was made for our computer age to thoroughly demonstrate.  All of this garbage that are called "schools" will be thrown in the garbage where they belong.  Islam's Mightiest Miracle has yet to be revealed to mankind on a large scale.  It's being done slowly and surely.

The Holy Quran had been badly neglected and mistreated throughout history by the Muslims via their rubbish schools and corrupt conspiracies that they've been forcing into Islam.  This is why the Prophet in the Day of Judgment will say:

[025:029]  `He led me astray from the Reminder after it had come to me.' And Satan always deserts man in the hour of need.
[025:030]  And the Messenger will say, `O my Lord, my people indeed treated this Qur'an as a thing to be discarded.'


‏25:29 لقد اضلني عن الذكر بعد اذ جاءني وكان الشيطان للانسان خذولا
 
‏25:30 وقال الرسول يارب ان قومي اتخذوا هذا القران مهجورا
 
Now again and again and again, this doesn't mean that all of the Hadiths must be rejected.  I've already explained what is a Hadith, and what is to be accepted as a Hadith from the Glorious Quran Itself.  Please read above.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah



Offline Black Muslim

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2014, 10:18:01 am »
I have no idea what your last post has to do with this really . Anyway , after all of this mentioning of "garbage" and whatsoever , do you agree with the responses or not ?

Offline MuslimBoy

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2014, 08:02:09 am »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers "Black Muslim" and ThatMuslimGuy,

Let's take the Sahih (authentic, true) Hadiths.  Forget the Mawdu (injected and fabricated ones).  Let's take the Sahih ones, because the link that I gave above, which is also as follows, is about Sahih narrations from the Sahih volumes:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1166.msg4047.html#msg4047

Also visit this very important one: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1105.msg5580.html#msg5580

1-  Do you believe that the Prophet got bewitched from a Jew who allegedly stole a piece of his hair?

2-  Do you believe that Aisha used to have her sister and/or cousin suckle adults to allow them to enter her house after the Prophet died?

3-  Do you believe that a she-monkey was stoned to death by a group of monkeys because the she-moneky committed adultery?

4-  Do you believe Imam Bukhari memorized 600,000 Hadiths?  If so, how was that verified according to you?

5-  Do you believe Imam Ahmed memorized 1,000,000 Hadiths?  If so, how was that verified according to you?

6-  Do you believe the dajjal (anti-Christ) is currently chained in an Island somewhere in lala land?  The Sahih volumes report on Muslims who actually saw him.  I even saw a Youtube video in the past suggesting that it might've been England.

7-  Do you believe Prophet Moses punched the Angel of Death in the eye when he came to take his soul, because Moses' life has expired?  Allah Almighty supposedly extended Moses' life because of this punch.  Yet, this CLASHES WITH THE HOLY QURAN about none can advance nor reduce their appointed time!  Everyone is scheduled to die at their due time.

There are a ton more examples I can bring.

I believe those are lies that were intentionally fabricated on the Prophet, and on the daughters of Abu Bakr, and on others, and on Islam in general.  I believe there is a big time conspiracy in the hadiths collections, since the enemies couldn't directly hurt the Holy Quran.  As to the links that you say I posted, I don't agree with everything an author of the website writes.  But I left it open, because I always allow for the chance of proving myself and others to be either right or wrong.  So it existing on my website doesn't mean that I agree with it.  And I don't believe in absolutes.  So not everything an author writes is wrong, nor everything he/she writes is right.  There is always a possibility for error, or in this case being duped into too much fundamentalism.  I mean seriously, I really look forward to your answers to the five points above, guys.



Your Mawdu hadiths never got removed:

Furthermore, we never see the so-called "Mawdu (injected, fabricated)" hadiths ever burnt or removed permanently.  They still remain in all of the hadiths collections.  They still endure.  Why?  Isn't it because you're giving nothing but opinionated nonsense that not everyone of your "scholars" agrees with you on?  So at the end of the day, you guys are playing nothing but games of opinions on the expense of Islam. 

1-  If the hadith is a lie, then why not remove it??

2-  If the hadith is a doubt, why not remove it?? 

3-  Did not Allah Almighty forbid us to live on conjectures, in the Holy Quran?

So the bottom line is this:  Your opinions remain nothing but opinions.  They'll never get past that point.  Nothing you consider from corrupt hadiths will ever get removed.  This is why we need to throw this type of corrupt school in the garbage where it belongs, and give Islam the treatment that it truly deserves.  Your school is ludicrous!  It is an insult to the very basic intelligence of humans.  I put it on the same level as shiism in stupidity and ignorance and waste of time and deeds.  No disrespect to either of you.  But barking and barking in endless back and forth cycles, and never accomplishing any real thing only proves that you're empty and full of nonsense.  If the hadiths are corrupt, then remove them!  But this will never happen, because your ludicrous school doesn't 100% agree on anything within itself when it comes to the hadiths.  This is why the corrupt hadiths endure.  For every corrupt hadith you bring, there are others from your school that will silence you.

So you can tap each others all you want on the shoulders.  This doesn't mean a thing to your school, because it's not in 100% agreement within itself on what you claim.



And who are YOU to doubt Bukhari and Muslim?

If a ludicrous hadith such as a she-monkey got stoned to death by a group of monkeys because she committed adultery was approved by Bukhari, then who are YOU to doubt him?

1-  Are you better than Bukhari?

2-  Did he not carefully select a couple of thousands of hadiths from 600,000 that he had all memorized in his head, and put them in his final collection?

3-  How DARE YOU consider yourself better than him??

I mean brother, seriously, if you're not a complete idiot for accepting this, then how would you respond to this?  I am playing devil's advocate here, and responding to you the way others from your ludicrous school would respond to you about the hadiths that you consider Mawdu (injected, fabricated) in a variety of collections.  This is just one example I used.

And for all to know, that even this ludicrous narration about the she-monkey still exists in the Sahih Bukhari volume today.  Even that was never removed!  And why remove it?  Again, did not Bukhari carefully select it from his long list of 600,000 hadiths??  Gee, that story is 100% accurate then!  So who are we today to dismiss it as falsehood.  Right?  It's a never-ending empty barking about this hadith is doubtful and this hadith isn't.  All of them will remain and endure, regardless.  So the barks remain and will always remain empty.  No results.  Just empty words from a never-100%-in-agreement school.  And if that is not so, then the garbage would not have remained and endured, for:

1-  No reasonable person would keep his rotten and stinky garbage inside his home forever.

2-  No reasonable person would drink from the toilet, especially when it's not empty.

3-  And similarly, no reasonable group would tolerate lies in their sacred scriptures if they all 100% agree that they're lies.


To the reader, please visit my link above for ample more proofs.  And from the link, you'll see the following:

Here is the bottom line:  What agrees with the Holy Quran from the hadiths and also from the Bible and other scriptures is closest to the Truth, but not absolute Truth like the Holy Quran.  And what disagrees with the Holy Quran belongs to the garbage.  You may use the toilet too if you'd like, just as long as it doesn't have GOD Almighty's or any Sacred Word or Name in it.

And last and not least, please visit the following link to see the Overwhelming Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

Also, Prophet Muhammad and Islam thoroughly prophesied, even by the name, in the Bible, Dead Sea Scrolls, and other previous Scriptures: http://www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm.



Where is the proof for my statement above?

I was asked before how can I substantiate the following statement from the Holy Quran:

Quote
Here is the bottom line:  What agrees with the Holy Quran from the hadiths and also from the Bible and other scriptures is closest to the Truth, but not absolute Truth like the Holy Quran.  And what disagrees with the Holy Quran belongs to the garbage.

Here is the proof from the Holy Quran:

[016:044] (We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.

[004:115] After the guidance has been revealed and explained, if anyone parts his way with the messenger and follows a path different from that of the believers, then We will divert him along his (chosen) path. We will hurl him in the hell (in the hereafter). What a despicable destination!

[006:046] Say, “Have you (ever) considered? What if Allah took away your hearing and your sight, and sealed off your heart? Is there a god besides Allah, who could give you back these senses?” Observe, how We explain the revelations in detail. Yet, they turn away (disdainfully).

[006:055] In this manner, We explain Our revelations in detail, so that the ways of the criminals would become (widely known and) well recognized.

Allah Almighty also called the Holy Quran "Muhaymin" (مهيمن, "Has all Authority above all", or "the dominant Book with the Highest Authority").  See Noble Verse 5:48.  For ample more on this point, please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/was_muta_immoral.htm


So the real genuine Hadiths that are Quran-Approved are the ones that directly explain and detail the Holy Quran's Commands.  Not every word that came out of the Prophet's mouth is a legitimate Hadith:

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: "The Prophet used to invoke Allah, saying, "Allahumma ighfirli khati'ati wa jahli wa israfi fi amri, wa ma anta a-'lamu bihi minni. Allahumma ighfirli hazali wa jiddi wa khata'i wa amdi, wa kullu dhalika 'indi"

WHICH READS IN ENGLISH AS:

"O Allah! Forgive my mistakes and my ignorance and my exceeding the limit (boundaries) of righteousness in my deeds; and forgive whatever You know better than I. O Allah! Forgive the wrong I have done jokingly or seriously, and forgive my accidental and intentional errors, all that is present in me."
  (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 75, Number 408))

This is why those who say that the Prophet never spoke out of his own desire, and that every word he spoke was an inspiration are all in error.  The following Noble Verses that they use only refer to the Holy Quran's Revelations:

[053:002]  You companion has neither erred, nor has he gone astray,
[053:003]  Nor does he speak out of his own desire.
[053:004]  It is nothing but pure revelation revealed by God.
[053:005]  The Lord of the Mighty Powers has taught him (i.e., Angel Gabriel),


Those who say that Prophet Muhammad was a "Walking Quran", and that every single word he spoke was an inspiration are full of rubbish nonsense.  This is further supported in the following Noble Verse:

[003:159]  It is part of the Mercy of God that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (Their faults), and ask for (God's) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast Taken a decision put thy trust in God. For God loves those who put their trust (in Him).

‏3:159 فبما رحمة من الله لنت لهم ولو كنت فظا غليظ القلب لانفضوا من حولك فاعف عنهم واستغفر لهم وشاورهم في الامر فاذا عزمت فتوكل على الله ان الله يحب المتوكلين

Why should the Prophet consult anybody when every word he spoke was a Divine Inspiration or Revelation?  This Noble Verse clearly proves that the Prophet was only inspired at certain fixed times, and not all of the time.  So him not speaking out of his own desire refers to the Holy Quran's Divine Revelations. 

Again, also please visit this very important link: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1105.msg5580.html#msg5580.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Agree. :D

Offline IA

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2014, 10:29:33 am »
...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 12:12:19 pm by Ilir Ahmeti »

Offline MuslimBoy

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2014, 12:27:34 pm »
Quote from: Ilir Ahmeti
You can agree, no one stops you
Thanks for your permission.

Offline IA

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2014, 12:49:48 pm »
...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 12:12:26 pm by Ilir Ahmeti »

Offline IA

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2014, 03:34:01 pm »
...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 12:12:09 pm by Ilir Ahmeti »

Offline IA

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2014, 05:23:53 pm »
...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 12:11:45 pm by Ilir Ahmeti »

Offline MuslimBoy

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Re: A question which should leave Shiites speachless
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2014, 11:28:39 pm »
I knew that Mr. Ilir but I want to say that I does not need your comment "You can agree".




Thanks