Author Topic: muhammad and the jews  (Read 9838 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline simpleguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • View Profile
muhammad and the jews
« on: August 04, 2013, 11:03:59 AM »
how do you reconcile islam being a religion of peace with muhammad's treatment of the jews.  for example he kicked out all jews of a tribe in medinah because 1 of their people harrassed a muslim girl.  that sounds like racial profiling where you imprison everyone of 1 racial group because of the actions of 1 person.  also he had jewish men of another tribe to be beheaded and their women and children. 

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 01:09:49 PM »
Actually here is the story:
there were 3 Arabian Jewish tribes in medina (actually more, but these were the 3 main ones), Qaynuqa, Nadir, and Qurayza.
When the prophet came to medina, he signed a treaty with them, promising to live with them in peace, and to each his own. However, after the battle of badr, where the Muslims defeated the meccans, the tribe of qaynuqa betrayed him. How, because of that incident of the girl you mentioned, but after that, trouble started between the Muslims and the Jews because of this incident, because after the Muslim fought the Jew who did that, the Jews killed the Muslim, the Jewish tribe didnt even condemn the person, tensions were big after that. The prophet also almost fell into an assignation attempt by them (at least some sources say that). the Jews then broke the treaty they had with the prophet, because of this, they were expelled.
Nadir was another Jewish tribe, after the battle of Uhud, where the meccans defeated the Muslims, kab bin al ashraf went to Mecca and began encouraging the meccans to kill Muhammad and anyone who stood by him, and began plotting with them, Ka’ab was killed for that, and Muhammad left the entire tribe alone, but soon later the tribe itself began planning the assassination of the prophet. they told the prophet to enter a religious debate with them  (or the prophet went there to ask for blood money for an unrelated murder) he accepted, and began to journey there (or the prophet went there to ask for blood money for an unrelated murder, versions differ).
3 versions of the story happened after that:
      1. Muhammad bin Maslama told the prophet that nadir was planning to assassinate him
      2. God gave him a revelation that the Jews were planning it and some else confirmed it
      3.  A convert to Islam from the tribe told him
whatever it was, the prophet returned, he sent a message to nadir, then, after he was sure, told them that they had to leave medina, they could bring all there possessions. they declined the offer and began preparing for a siege, the prophet beat them  but gave them the same terms as before, the Nadir were expelled with all there possessions to the Khaibar oasis, remember this, they come up late.

Only one tribe remained, the Qurayza.
The prophet then signed another treaty with them, promising to defend each other while the other one is attacked.
The meccans then wanted to get rid of the prophet forever, so they sent  10 000 to siege him, they teamed up with many other tribes, including nadir, and fought him around medina in a battle known as the battle of the trench, called that because the Muslims used a trench. The qurayza were stationed at the north, and the prophet expected them to defend their part, or at least not let anyone in. However, the Qurayza were planning on teaming up with the meccans, but the prophet made use of a spy to delay the  teaming up, long story (if you want to know the details, look at this link http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/information_about_the_jewish_tribes.htm , it has many great articles about the jews of medina).
After the meccans and their allies were defeated, the prophet went to qurayza and went on to decide their punishment. The qurayza made a deal, the qurayza would choose someone who would decide there fate, they chose Sa’ad Bin Muadh, a member of a tribe that had friendly relations to qurayza, however, he was fatally wounded as the result of battle, possibly an indirect action of Qurayza breaking the treaty. Sa’ad Bin Muadh decided there punishment, that the warriors be killed and the women and children be slaves, Saad bin Muadh died soon after. Remember it was he who decided on the punishment, not the prophet, the qurayza even picked him to decide. The leader of the tribe, before being executed told the prophet that he had given them a fair judgment.
But we are not done yet.
Remember the Nadir, who planned to assassinate the prophet so they were expelled, then joined the meccans to fight him at the battle of the trench?

They were up to their old tricks, they began to plot to attack medina again and encourage others to fight the prophet. So the prophet besieged them in there new castle of Khaibar.

If you want more info on the jewish tribes please check here:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/information_about_the_jewish_tribes.htm

this is a link to many articles on the jewish tribes, please read some before you reply
I recommend those by bismikaallahuma
peace

Offline Black Muslim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 01:55:29 PM »
Before I answer you , I would like to give you an advice : Don't overrate yourself . Believe me , you're not the first one who reads about Islam from its enemies and then thinks he got the wolf by its tail (Common Arabic saying) . So instead of coming every now and then and think you embarrassed us , take five minutes or less and read the explanation or refutation of what you misunderstood .

Now about the Jews . First of all , I'll say that all these tears for Jews are a huge farce . As if the other people who reached 60 million through world war 2 were not humans as well . As if the people in Burma getting murdered and raped aren't humans as well . As if the native people of America who were annihilated were not humans as well . So I don't care if you call me antisemitic , it isn't all about you , Jews .

As for the Jews of the enlightened city - Madinah - they were three tribes and they ALL made conspiracies against Islam and its people . The first were the Jews of Qainuqa . A Muslim woman passed by their market and they tried to make her show her face and she refused . So a jeweler tied her dress to a chair , and when she stood up her private parts showed ! Now I don't know if you find it a trivial thing if a lady's private parts show in your environment and culture , but that doesn't change the fact that they did an unforgivable crime . That's why a Muslim man was enraged and killed the Jewish so they killed the Muslim . And that was the beginning of the end . But if you bothered read the biography - And you clearly didn't - you would have known that this isn't the only reason - Although it's heinous - because they already had conspiracies and tried to kill the prophet many times thus breaking the treaty . That's why they were banished . "because 1 of their people harrassed a muslim girl" you say ? harassment my foot !

Now , for the second tribe of Quraitha , they waged war on Muslims . End of the story . During the battle of the trench , Muslims were attacked from the front by Quraish and Jews from behind . If they succeeded in their treason , the whole Muslims would have been slaughtered ! After Quraish surrendered , Muslims cornered the Jews for days until they decided to give up . The Jews asked for Sa'd the son of Mu'ath to be the judge thinking that he would go easy on them because he had some trading relationships with them . But nothing could spare them the punishment . So he judged to kill their men . And why didn't you ask yourself : Wouldn't they do more than this if they succeeded ? Why didn't you ask yourself : If he banished them , wouldn't they return with armies to wage war again ?

Again , I despise farces .

Offline simpleguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 03:39:05 PM »
he was going to kick the jews out regardless of whether or not they were a threat.  even to this day jews and christians aren't allowed in the cities of mecca or medina.

also he didn't just fight wars for self defence.  the byzantine empire for example wasn't threatening muhammad but yet muhammad still sent an army to attack them. 

Offline Black Muslim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2013, 03:54:21 PM »
Quote
he was going to kick the jews out regardless of whether or not they were a threat
So let me get this straight , you just discovered that what you just posted is an epic "Fail" and so you change the subject ? Very well , the great Islam always remains above all .
I can push your objection here with one word "Evidence ?" . The prophet all peace and blessings upon him came from Makkah - Not Mecca - to Madinah - Not Medina - where a great percentage of its people accepted his prophethood and supported him . When he arrived , he made a treaty with the Jews of Madinah which enlisted some things among them are :
1 - Not harming each other .
2 - Fighting side by side against any enemy which attacks them .
So how come he was planning to drive them out if he made a treaty with them ?
As for not allowing the disbelievers into Makkah or Madinah , that was during the eighth year after migration after the liberation of Makkah . By that time 99.9 % of the people of the two cities were Muslims so what's your objection ? That's God's order . And let me give you a hint by the way , Most nations don't allow you in unless you fulfill certain conditions and you don't see anyone complaining .

Offline Tanveer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Hello
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2013, 04:38:28 PM »
even to this day jews and christians aren't allowed in the cities of mecca or medina.
Why do jews and christians even care? Why is Makkah and Madinah so special to them?

Offline simpleguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2013, 06:24:28 PM »
even to this day jews and christians aren't allowed in the cities of mecca or medina.
Why do jews and christians even care? Why is Makkah and Madinah so special to them?

the fact is what he did was racial profiling.  he punished an entire jewish tribe for the actions of a minority of it's members and here you muslims in the west  whine about how you guys are being profiled because of the terrorist actions of a minority of people in your faith.  go [censored] yourself
 
also you didn't refute the other point that I made about muhammad attacking the byzantines.  the byzantines never attack muhammad or his followers so why did muhammad attack them. 

Offline Black Muslim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2013, 07:45:39 PM »
Before I reply to this dog who showed his true ugly colors :

Quote
Why do jews and christians even care? Why is Makkah and Madinah so special to them?
Well said . I always kept asking myself : WHY DO THEY BOTHER THAT MUCH ABOUT MAKKAH AND MADINAH ?! The only thing they can possibly do there is trying to get drugs through or weapons maybe . Anyway :

Quote
go [censored] yourself
You know what ? Go censor yourself too :)

Quote
the fact is what he did was racial profiling.  he punished an entire jewish tribe for the actions of a minority of it's members
Do you find difficulties understanding what we say ? They freaking committed treason ! The entire tribes either committed treason or agreed to it . When someone breaks the treaty and says "Let's kill them all" and the others say "We agree , we'll help you" , how the flip do you expect these others to be spared while they helped him ?! Are you blind to not be able to see what I said how they tried to kill the prophet many times ? I told you , get over yourself .

Quote
and here you muslims in the west  whine about how you guys are being profiled because of the terrorist actions of a minority of people in your faith
Oh no , you're bloody wrong . There's a HUGE difference between the two cases

Terrorism my foot !

And here I thought that you'd stick to one argument at a time like someone actually seeking a productive conversation , but you prove me wrong again . Now , for the Romans , I'm not that much when it comes to history but , who told you they didn't threaten the Islamic nation or its people ? Who said that they never oppressed Muslims in their lands ? Who said they never encouraged others to wage war on the Islamic nation ? I'd let someone who knows better answer . But a little rationality can spare one a load of thinking .

Offline Tanveer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Hello
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2013, 08:23:29 PM »
even to this day jews and christians aren't allowed in the cities of mecca or medina.
Why do jews and christians even care? Why is Makkah and Madinah so special to them?

the fact is what he did was racial profiling.  he punished an entire jewish tribe for the actions of a minority of it's members and here you muslims in the west  whine about how you guys are being profiled because of the terrorist actions of a minority of people in your faith.  go [censored] yourself
 
also you didn't refute the other point that I made about muhammad attacking the byzantines.  the byzantines never attack muhammad or his followers so why did muhammad attack them.
IIRC the Prophet PBUH sent the Byzantines a messenger with some message but the Byzantines killed him which until pretty recently was an act of war. I cant remember which battle it was though, just tried googling it up couldnt find it.

Offline Tanveer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Hello
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2013, 09:11:11 PM »
go [censored] yourself
You're the nobody that came onto our forum to try and lambast us over something your peanut brain cant even comprehend. So take your own advice and go censor yourself unless you can finally grow some and have a mature conversation without resorting to pathetic swearing. Dont waste anymore time on this fool Brother Black Muslim. As he honestly admits in his username. He's a simple guy. A simply stupid guy.

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2013, 01:00:57 PM »
Dude, first the ghassasinids (some sources include the sulaym tribe) killed the prophets messanger to them to preach islam, so the prophet sent an army, the byzantines came to the ghassasinid aid since the tribes were there protectorates. This battle resulted in the battle of mutah, the first conflict between byzantium and the muslims.
So why are you telling us false statements. Get your facts straight.
As for the banu qaynuqa and the women invovled, after the large explanation i gave plus the links, you still stick to this claim, get your facts straight. If the prophet wanted to remove all jews, he would have done it immediately, instead, he only expelled the tribes that betrayed him, plooted to kill him, or were helping there enemies, and this is only when the entire tribe betrayed him, not just one or 2 people. In fact, when Kaab bin al ashraf, a member of nadir, ws supporting the meccans to kill the prophet, the prophet only punished him, later, when the entire tribe betrayed him, he expelled them.

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: muhammad and the jews
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2013, 07:26:59 PM »
i would also like to add that when the qurayza chose saad bin muadh to decide there punishment, saad said they should be punished according to the torah, specifically
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
thats why the punishment was carried out
peace