Author Topic: An advice to mclinkin94  (Read 52081 times)

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Offline Black Muslim

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Re: An advice to mclinkin94
« Reply #75 on: December 12, 2013, 07:36:45 am »
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The method of creation is clear in the Quran. You are the one rejecting it.
Rant

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Hadith is exactly that. This is not an acrobatic explanation. Do you define acrobatic explanations as reasonable explanations? I don't get how any of it is acrobatic. Are you saying that the Hadiths that you follow are not the same as the type of hadith the Quran is referring to? I disagree.  Why do you think they were named Hadiths?? My argument remains, the Quran is referring to what you are doing--diverting others from the path of God through using baseless hadiths.
Rant .

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The Quran is a hadith, but it certainly isn't a baseless hadith. The hadiths you follow are baseless both logically (the way it is transmitted) and scientifically (how it contradicts science).
You can take your own opinion and throw it anywhere else . Bluffing holds no value .

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The scientific method as well as reasoned logic is how I determine if something is factually absurd. Humans created in literal days at a certain day (friday) as your 'sahih' hadith (an oxymoron) implies is factually absurd. Dipping your fly on a drink again is not going to clean the drink nor do anything. Your faith in hadiths is blind--the worst kind. Science has ruled that out completely, there is not way those could be true. Simple as that.
I ask Allah to take away the sense of sight from you . You don't use it in the first place . More rant about how you follow science while it's innocent of you . You can spam all this baby complaining however you like and it doesn't change a thing . Just because you - a nobody - thinks creating father Adam - or even the entire human race - is impossible doesn't mean it is . Just because you're a coward who just ignored the link I provided about flies it doesn't mean it's wrong . Simple as that .

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I'm still not compelled.
Then screw your opinion . We don't need it .

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Just like the telephone game--have you ever played it? How often is the last speech the same as the first?
And I ask the lord to take away the sense of hearing from you . You don't seem to use it either .

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Secondly, why don't we do an experiment--dip the fly in the drink once and measure the amount of pathogens. Then dip it again with the other wing and measure the amount of pathogens. What do you think will occur?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxu-wKE9s1c
Minute 24 . If you still deny after this , you're completely hopeless .
http://www.eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?55209-%C7%E1%C7%DA%CC%C7%D2-%C7%E1%DA%E1%E3%ED-%DD%ED-%CD%CF%ED%CB-%C7%E1%D0%C8%C7%C8-%E6%C7%E1%D1%CF-%DA%E1%EC-%C7%E1%D3%DD%E1%C9-%C7%E1%D1%DA%C7%DA
By the way , the name of the thread is "The scientific miracle in flies and answering the lowly mobs" . Do you insist on having those characteristics said about you ?

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Wow you really debunked me there.
The only thing you had was some ridiculous ideas and children talk . There was nothing to refute in the first place . And when you act like a kid , you'll be treated like a kid . Ironically , from what I heard , you're over 20 years old .

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I don't appreciate how you reject evidence and call your hadiths perfect. IT si not a perfect science, it is an art that isn't even competent.
There's no evidence to begin with . You're just pathetically trying to force your way through saying "I'm smart and you're stupid" . And when you try to make "evidence" you end up only proving yourself wrong .

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So you are saying that being impatient necessarily leads you to the wrong conclusion. That is logically incoherent. Does not invalidate my evidence, you must address the points. I do agree that perhaps some of my understanding and yours as well are impatient, I am willing to find the truth if good arguments are made. I haven't gotten those good arguments
You admit that you know 0 of anything you despise so much and then dare talk about it ?

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LOL, The evidence for evolution (especially the genetic evidence) and the Quranic teaching is forged, but not the hadith..LOL
If you were in front of me , I'd have slapped you really . You dare make it look like I accuse Quran of being forged you ............. ? You know what , forget it .

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Think about it. If the Quran was referring to Hadiths as being protected, then that would be a Quranic contradiction because hadiths are recognized to be unprotected. You have various contradictions between the Quran and Hadith. Between hadith and Hadith.
And some claim that Quran is corrupted and has contradictions , that doesn't help them .

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This testimony which God describes as "Akbar Shahada" (the Greatest Testimony) commands Muhammad to testify that He received the Quran from God. This testimony speaks of only one revelation received by Muhammad from God which is the Quran. If Muhammad truly received other revelations from God (other than the Quran), would we not find any mention of it in the Quran? Would God hide the fact that He gave Muhammad a revelation independent of the Quran and then command us to obey it?
More rant and cowardice of addressing the answer to the same rusty point .

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I don't think you know about logical fallacies. Why do I debate with someone who doesn't understand logical fallacies?
First of all , with this low level , I can't call it a debate . It's just exposing nonsense for what it is . And here I am wasting my time on some guy who doesn't know what he's talking about , contradicts his own words , brings evidence against him ans uses it as if it helps , and has a foul mouth while talking about the creator , Islam , and its prophet peace upon him .

Here is an example:

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Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The last Verse (in the Quran) revealed to the Prophet was the Verse dealing with
usury (i.e. Riba). [Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, #67]
 
Narrated Al-Bara:
 
and the last Verse that was revealed was: "They ask you for a legal verdict, Say:
Allah's directs (thus) about those who leave no descendants or ascendants as heirs."
(4.176) [Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, #129]
The same is also mentioned in Sahih Muslim.
You embarrass yourself again because you lack even the tiniest shreds of knowledge about what you attack . Do you know what "A correct chain" means ? As the name says , it's a correct chain . Still , to who does the chain go in both of those ? They go to two different companions who said what they knew . It doesn't say "The prophet said" . Do you understand what that means or do I need to make it simpler ? OK then , simple it is . It means that the chain is absolutely correct in going to the two companions of the prophet . Here , the two have different opinions based on their knowledge . So therefore , one of them thought that the last sign to be revealed is a certain one but he didn't know that another was revealed after it . Still , the narration to the companion is correct .
So what now ? Is is a pillar of Islam to know what's the last sign revealed ?

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Why didn't you address my argument again? Of course I am getting on your nerves, I am questioning your blatantly false beliefs.
What arguments ? are they also written with invisible ink ?

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I think you know that I am right, but you are just unwilling to reject hadiths because they provide good explanations for you. You've said this before, "if we reject hadiths, then how do we account for...". this is again logically incoherent. It doesn't matter what hadiths explain, you cannot acccept them and remain reasonable. The Quran prohibits it and it is actually a Quranic prophesy. There will be people like you who uphold BASELESS hadiths and divert others from the path of God. Look at how clear that verse is and how accurate it is
Well I think you could be a bigoted Jewish man trying to corrupt the beliefs of Muslims . That doesn't change a thing . It doesn't matter to you if I bring a million book or dictionary proving you wrong . You'd still ignore it and keep floating in your lala world where you're a God who's always right and all else is wrong . Ignorance and arrogance are a deadly combination .
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I call shiahs brother. I call Christians brother. I call athiests brother. Shias are just like you--misinformed and upholding baseless hadiths.

You say "my scholars are better than yours", "my hadiths are better than yours".

Why don't you listen to a Shia Scholar making a belief based on his false hadiths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfnr6I8B5wY

You are no better than him. Unfortunately, I agree with him. Based on the hadith fabrications about Aisha saying things about the prophet--Aisha appears to be a hypocrite. But I doubt that is the real Aisha and her sayings.
And on this one , I ask Allah to curse you along with that bastard accusing a mother of believers ! The more you talk the more I see how low a life form you are .
As for the rest , typical rant of you .


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If Allah wanted us to follow something besides the Quran, He would have told us so. But he told us the complete opposite in the Quran.

"Obey the messenger" means to obey ONLY the message he came with. And the message that the prophet came with is nothing more than the Quran--as the Quran states. Why didn't it say that there would be other messages?
The only thing making me keep going with you is that I fear some commoners who know not might actually be fooled by you . Otherwise , I would have spared myself all this headache because of reading such nonsense time and time again .
No backing up of what you claim , so just like 90% of your posts , I'll ignore it .

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WHy don't you answer. There IS meaning to it.
Didn't see you answering what I said before it .

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What quotes are you referring to, I have answered everything? Bring anything that remains unanswered to my attention and I will happily reply.
Look here kiddo , I won't tire myself every damn time bringing you something I repeat almost every two posts . You have page in front of you , so get of your seat and work a little lazy head .

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Firstly, it is referring to the people back then and is un-applicable to us. .
What evidence do you have that it isn't ?

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But even if it was applicable to us, then it would would mean to get testimony from others AND reflecting upon them! Not just blindly accepting them...this is obvious. But too much for you to make that conclusion
What evidence do you have that it is ? Of course I don't say we should ask Jews and Christians - who corrupted their own books - about our noble Quran . I'm just using your logic here .

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If you want, I could flood this blog with examples. Let me know.
So either you bring nothing at all or you "flood" the place with nonsense and lies . Yeah , typical .

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The point is we cannot count on the people who wrote hadiths, because not all of them are perfect followers or understanders of the Quran. Do I seriously have to lay everything out for you like this? Please think for yourself.
The guy who believes in evolution because "scientists" said so dares tell me to think ? As for your point , who gives you the right talk about them saying they're misguided while you don't even know their names ? There is absolutely no logical or scriptural reason to say that the prophet didn't give teachings other than Quran . And if he did , then it is a necessity that they were preserved . And we don't wait for the approval of a nobody to work with those teachings .

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YES! You have evidence of that through hadith contradictions. Do you know how they primarily determine whether a hadith is authentic, by looking at the line of transmission and determining whether they have good character? Think now; Couldn't the fabricator, also fabricate the Hadith line of transmission?
No they can't . I won't repeat . Either you abandon this massive ego and arrogance of yours to learn the first basics of hadith or there's no point . I don't have the time giving you a course of it because you're too lazy old man .
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You failed to read my question in context. You are saying that you can trust hadiths because those who said it are followers of the Quran, Is say:

-Some aren't followers of the Quran
-Some are ignorant of parts the Quran
-Some are hypocrites

^this debunks your argument.
This only proves you as an ignorant yet more . First of all Mr.Amnesia , those "Some aren't followers of Quran" are the first to be not accepted in any chain . I said it in the last post . Secondly , oh ! And I suppose YOU know about Quran ?! The one who doesn't even understand what he reads ?! Thirdly , you aren't someone to say people are hypocrites so jump outta window if you're mad .

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Are you saying that the Quran doesn't have things that would be understood in the future?
A low attempt . A 5 years old wouldn't understand that from my post .

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Which hadith, other than this (Quran), do they uphold?" 77:50
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"These are God's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 45:6

Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114
Truthful is Allah . Now really , on what planet do you live ? Quran is the first source of laws for us and it tells us to obey the messenger as nothing he says about Islam is out of revelation .

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You have the burden of proof of saying why the Sunnah is also a revelation brought to us.
Look at what you quoted blind man .

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Nah, I am simply presenting the reason why you admitted that you are unwilling to reject hadiths. It is because they provide vital historical explanations for you. But as we have just seen, they aren't very accurate.
That is one out of many ways to respond to you and clearly , you fail to address the point .

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If WW1 was transmitted from speech like the telephone game and those speeches have contradictions, then you can say that the events at WW1 are questionable. That is my logic.
Come talk when you prove that these contradictions exist in other than your dreams .

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Did you not get my point? I said that we shouldn't make excuses to believing something, it should be entirely on logic/reason/evidence/rationality/intellectual honesty.
Good , then you should abandon what you were brainwashed with .

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Did I say that or did I say that you should analyze those journals and see the evidence for yourself? You must do it while remaining honest and faithful to yourself. There is so much evidence that posting it here would take years.
In short , all that "evidence" doesn't go out of one of these :
1 - Faking
2 - Forcing an evolutionary explanation on anything
3 - Brainwashing people by TV

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Ignorance to such a degree! The only cure for this disease is knowledge. PLEASE get  yourself educated, it is not even worth my time to explain this. you have the world's knowledge at the tips of your fingers! The Quran encourages to seek knowledge, so follow that COMMANDMENT.
Hello , your "God" Darwin said so . And from what I see so far , they still believe so . Only a dysfunctional brain can say that creation is absurd while deers turning to giraffs is science . Oh , and here :
http://www.omniology.com/DINO-BIRD-FAIRY-TALE.jpg

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Lots of emotional arguments here. So I will reject them. I operate on nothing more than logic and reason and rationality and intellectual honesty. If this is too much for you, then I apologize.
You accuse me of emotional arguments and you use one in the same freaking line ? Ironic .

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I love Allah and I love the prophet Muhammad. NOT the hadith representation of them.
You don't like what doesn't match your selfish desires even if it was as clear as the sun in the middle of day . A foul mouthed manner-lacking man who insults Allah and his prophet dares say this ?

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Further, I do admire saying "peace be upon him", but it is not a quranic concept. The Quran doesn't say "peace be upon him" when referring to a prophet, it is a human innovation--but a benign one. I don't reject it, I admire it---
A human innovation ?! I keep getting more assured that you don't read Quran .
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Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace.

So let's review :
1 - You claim that evolution is right . You claim that Quran and science prove it . I tell you that Quran and science are innocent of such a thing and that Sunnah also rejects it . You refuse Sunnah and claim that you can prove it from Quran alone . You bring signs and explain them however you like . You bring a page of Yahoo answers which proves you wrong along with a translation site doing the same . I keep repeating time and time out that you're wrong and show you why you're wrong and even have to go into the basic roots of words in Arabic . You call me unwilling and rant about it .
2 - You claim that Sunnah is corrupted and use a load of lies and personal opinions to prove it . I respond to them one by one . You call me unwilling and rant about it .

And considering how I wasted all that time of my days , the next time you return to post I'll either respond in brief - saving time - or not respond at all depending on what you write .

And no peace .

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: An advice to mclinkin94
« Reply #76 on: December 12, 2013, 05:11:20 pm »
Ok beloveds.  I am freezing this thread.  No need to allow the resentment to grow.  If anyone has final or closing statements to make, then please send them to me and I'll post them here.  I'll take charge of this conversation hence forward.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: An advice to mclinkin94
« Reply #77 on: December 13, 2013, 04:38:01 am »
Here is a response from brother Mclinkin94:

Unfortunately, this thread was closed before I could answer. To address your final points: The Quran and Science are not innocent of Evolution. That is an extraordinary claim that will need extraordinary evidence which you haven't presented. Going as far as challenging science and the Quran is going to need a lot of evidence to back that up. You referred to my arguments against the Sunnah as personal. That is a lie, it is completely objective. If you haven't noticed, there really was no subjectivity to my sunnah arguments. It was all an honest constructive criticism based upon a reasonable and rational analysis of Hadiths and the 'science' behind them. 

Thirdly, I have shown you many times even with the yahoo link that my interpretation fits  and how Sahih international supported my translation and not only that I have shown you that even your interpretation of that word supports the Quranic account for evolution! But you never accounted for this and you remained supporting your beliefs without addressing my arguments.  I think you know that I am right. Not only that I have presented so many evolutionary arguments that you haven't addressed.  Nevertheless, the rhetorical method of debate you use does not compel me nor should it compel any honest person. You say that you respond to me one-by-one and I respond to you one-by-one as well. This goes both ways. You say that you have proved me wrong, and I have proved you wrong in that as well. you call what I do rants, when they are clearly objective. I can call everything you do as rants, but I do not.  Why? Because using a dishonest rhetorical method in debate is not compelling to anyone honest. I don't think you have wasted your time, I think you have gained a slight push on your quest to rationality.  No one who denies the Quranic and scientific evidence of evolution can be considered rational, it would be like denying Earth's roundness.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: An advice to mclinkin94
« Reply #78 on: December 13, 2013, 04:40:46 am »
As'salamu Alaikum everyone,

I've been swamped with so many things that I hardly had time for anything.  I will go over the discussion on this thread and give my evidence in the near future Insha'Allah.  It is an interesting and an important topic for today's world.  Evolution is a big topic, regardless whether it is a true or false belief.  I will Insha'Allah give my contribution to the discussion in the near future.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah