Author Topic: Are there more "messengers of Allah"?  (Read 20631 times)

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Offline mokko

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Re: Are there more "messengers of Allah"?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2012, 02:10:23 PM »
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so what? Maybe Ellen White was also a descendant of Abraham, who knows.
Prove.

Ellen White was certainly a descendant of Adam.

[/quote] Did Ellen White live among pagans? And how does it come that there are so many atheists in America? Did Ellen White change whole America into worshipping God alone?[/quote]

She made her contribution. All prophets are different, but equal. Did Jesus live among pagans?

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Muhammad is sent for the whole mankind.
Ellen White too.

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Remember her false prophecies? Remember Harold Camping?

what is his connection with Ellen White?

Offline mokko

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Re: Are there more "messengers of Allah"?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2012, 03:02:59 PM »
you will certainly learn more from this link than from our discussion http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html

Offline Abd-Al-Rahman

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Re: Are there more "messengers of Allah"?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2012, 09:58:55 PM »
Same old boring “arguments” really, worthless thread, worthless discussion, worthless points, and that I really mean it, usually I won’t start a post this way but for some types of people (and the “arguments" they bring) that’s really the only way you can find of properly dealing with them, even if it may be against the usual way you deal with people in general.

You seem pretty new at this, have you just discovered answering (attacking but blatantly failing at it) islam recently or something?

No anger here either because those kinds of arguments you’re presenting have been around for years and years and none of them have been or will ever be taken more seriously than the time it takes to quickly take care and refute them and the empty theories and false charges they involve nearly 100% of the time one after the other, but anyways…

I’ve been following this specific thread for maybe since yesterday now and have also read all your previous posts, I thought of responding to everything you’ve brought up in thorough detail but that would be such a waste of time for nothing and I just don’t feel like losing hours typing all that out, so I’ve just refrained at the last minute of doing so :)

However since you seem fond of bringing up that Geschhwind whatever syndrome and especially Ellen White (never had heard of her before personally) as one of your “arguments”, (even though if we had to weight the values of each one you brought up, as weak as they may all be as a whole, the ones with Ellen White would definitely be the weakest) I just felt like responding to this one real quick since it’s a walk in the park and won’t require much time at all.

So basically you’re comparing Ellen White to Prophet Muhammad PBUH and in summary all your arguments regarding her are an extension of this:

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1. what are the reasons that make you accept Muhammad and reject White, rather than the other way? do you have any?

Consider all the arguments that Muslims usually give to Christians, in order to make them accept Muhammad, and apply them to the case of Ellen White.

Do you realize how weak that is?

Really quickly, Ellen preached by the Bible and believed “that only the Bible is sufficient for forming doctrines and beliefs” (from the link you gave, end of first paragraph at the top).

The magic keyword here is “Bible”.

Do you know what this really means as to her claim of prophethood being all based on the Bible for this specific point, and do you know how weak this made your arguments sound? Please go study and read up a bit more about the Bible.

A good starting point which you might be able to connect more with since a lot of your arguments deal with science would be to give the “Creation of the Universe” accounts from Genesis in the Bible a closer look and try and give it some thought.

And that's only the tip of the iceberg compared to what could and can be said with absolute certainty when it comes to the Bible, no lies and no fake theories, but that'll suffice in regards to that "argument" of yours.

And then the rest was pretty much as weak but that won’t be dealt with since my time is running out, the Ellen one though was the quickest I could deal with so that’s that.

Also just so we’re clear, my intention never was to argue with you or continue the “debate”, I just felt like throwing mine in real quick where you’re throwing yours, that is all.

I'll keep an eye on the thread but probably won't post anymore so don't count on any further reply from me, however I might if any point brought up is good enough for it and isn't just as ridiculous as 95% of your "arguments" up until now.

Need I say more? No.

And may Peace be upon you.

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EDIT: I just read this one another time and it made me laugh, I’m not even kidding :))

I had to put it back in here so people could see it a couple more times when good comedy is needed:

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Ellen White did similar things in America, and maybe even some better things.

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Ellen White did similar things in America, and maybe even some better things.

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Ellen White did similar things in America, and maybe even some better things.

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Ellen White did similar things in America, and maybe even some better things.

Posted by “brother Mustafa” in reference to the quote below which was originally posted by brother Final Overture in an earlier post:

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3. «During the 23-year period of his prophethood, he changed the entire Arabian Peninsula from paganism to worship of the one true God, from tribal warfare to national unity, from anarchy to disciplined living, from barbarism to the highest standard of moral excellence. At the time of his death most inhabitants of Arabia and the southern regions of Iraq and Palestine had voluntarily embraced Islam. To posterity he left a creed of pure monotheism that included comprehensive legislation based on a balanced system of moral values.» (Clear your doubts about Islam, Sahih International)

And that will be all for tonight, but I have to admit that one was good, for real :)
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« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 01:06:57 AM by Abd-Al-Rahman »

Offline mokko

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Re: Are there more "messengers of Allah"?
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2012, 03:16:17 AM »
The magic keyword here is “Bible”.

Do you know what this really means as to her claim of prophethood being all based on the Bible for this specific point, and do you know how weak this made your arguments sound? Please go study and read up a bit more about the Bible.

A good starting point which you might be able to connect more with since a lot of your arguments deal with science would be to give the “Creation of the Universe” accounts from Genesis in the Bible a closer look and try and give it some thought.
[\quote]

i failed to see how the Bible is significantly worse than the Quran from a scientific viewpoint. It is not a surprise, since the second is directly inspired from the first (but just more vague).

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/A_Qur%E2%80%99anic_Understanding_of_the_Universe

You are right, I am not qualified to understand the clear and sound counter-arguments found of this website. I do not deserve my place here.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 03:19:52 AM by mokko »

Offline mokko

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Re: Are there more "messengers of Allah"?
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2012, 05:14:52 AM »
I tried to correct groupthink in this Muslim forum, but it was too difficult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink#Symptoms

To make groupthink testable, Irving Janis devised eight symptoms indicative of groupthink.:

Type II: Closed-mindedness

Stereotyping those who are opposed to the group as weak, evil, biased, spiteful, impotent, or stupid.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 05:24:19 AM by mokko »

Offline Final Overture

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Re: Are there more "messengers of Allah"?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2012, 07:13:46 AM »
Quote
so what? Maybe Ellen White was also a descendant of Abraham, who knows.
Prove.

Ellen White was certainly a descendant of Adam.

Did Ellen White live among pagans? And how does it come that there are so many atheists in America? Did Ellen White change whole America into worshipping God alone?[/quote]

She made her contribution. All prophets are different, but equal. Did Jesus live among pagans?

Quote
Muhammad is sent for the whole mankind.
Ellen White too.

Quote
Remember her false prophecies? Remember Harold Camping?

what is his connection with Ellen White?
[/quote]
You are too his descendant. Are you a prophet?
Jesus - mostly yea.
For whole? Did she say this?
Connection? False prophecies.
Allah gave Muhammad a victory over the pagans.
«We were the lowest of all people and then Allah gave us glory by Islam, and if we seek glory in anything other that what Allah has given us, Allah will disgrace us.» Umar ibn Khattab

Offline Antiaparteid

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Re: Are there more "messengers of Allah"?
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2012, 07:46:36 AM »
If the prophet, peace be upon him, was a descendent of Abraham, peace be upon him, why did he become a pagan in the first place? Surely, monotheism would have been transfered from generation to generation!

Offline Final Overture

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Re: Are there more "messengers of Allah"?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2012, 09:31:15 AM »
If the prophet, peace be upon him, was a descendent of Abraham, peace be upon him, why did he become a pagan in the first place? Surely, monotheism would have been transfered from generation to generation!

"monotheism would have been transfered from generation to generation!" Not really.
"become a pagan in the first place" Some proof would be great.
Qur'an 6:161-164
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Say, "Indeed, my Lord has guided me to a straight path - a correct religion - the way of Abraham, inclining toward truth. And he was not among those who associated others with Allah ."Say, "Indeed, my prayer, my rites of sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah , Lord of the worlds.No partner has He. And this I have been commanded, and I am the first [among you] of the Muslims."Say, "Is it other than Allah I should desire as a lord while He is the Lord of all things? And every soul earns not [blame] except against itself, and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ."
«We were the lowest of all people and then Allah gave us glory by Islam, and if we seek glory in anything other that what Allah has given us, Allah will disgrace us.» Umar ibn Khattab