Author Topic: Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) was the Messiah predicted in OT and anticipated by jews  (Read 18711 times)

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Offline Mohammed.Rashid

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In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful

Who and what is the meaning of messiah?

Literally the word messiah, maw-shakh, moshiach (in Hebrew) means The anointed one – signifying that he will be a leader, a king, high priest or a chosen one.

Many prophets in OT are mentioned as anointed ones or Messiahs  .eg - Isaiah – 61:1, 2 Chronicles 6:42, Psalms 45:7 etc

To prove its not a unique term and it is used for others and prophets we read in –   1 Chronicles 16:22 - "Do not touch my anointed ones(Christs or Messiahs – Note it’s a plural – also Psalms 105:5); do my prophets no harm." 

So if Quran uses the term messiah(Quran 9:30) exclusively for jesus there is nothing to be surprised about as Prophet Ibrahim(pbuh) is called the friend of God and as per the scholars every prophet is a friend of God. Muslims during wudhu(ablution) masah which means pouring and rubbing wet hands throughout the head. Which the word Hebrew word messiah(the one who is anointed) stands for a person chosen to be a leader by rubbing oil on the head.

Christians are unfamiliar with the word messiah or Christ. Most of the Christians are not even aware of the meaning of the word “Christ” and may be they hardly care to know about it and are just made to believe that He is a savior like figure for them as“He died for your sins” – So If you believe that then you are saved.

The most important thing about the Christ/Messiah which is hidden intentionally or un-intentionally by the scholars of christianity is according to the jews and their bible Messiah will  :-

Let me explain it in a typical Abraham lincoln’s quote of democracy– Christ/ Messiah will come from among the jews, to the jews and for the jews - ONLY.

Why do the jews reject Jesus as their messiah is because he criticised them exposed their hypocrisy,double standard and their corruption of holy books –Though jesus was an Israelite he was and is still rejected by the jews as he didn’t fulfilled the prophecy the jews wanted him to fulfill. Hence, If jews are asked as to why they reject jesus as their messiah? They will simply say that he didn’t fulfilled any prophecy. And If Christians are asked as to why jews(the chosen ones) rejected jesus as messiah? Christians will quickly reply – He will fulfill it in the second coming.  The Christians fail or may be they are not aware that there is nothing like second coming of the messiah from Judaism’s own sources or Old testament and may be talmud. Even if they quote some verse – it is regarded as mis-interpretation by the chosen people themselves.

Let me highlight some of the facts which are not know by the people of all Abrahamic faiths - possibly.

WHY THE JEWS REJECT PROPHET MOHAMMED(PBUH) AS THE MESSIAH?

Its not a surprises  us muslims that jews reject Prophet Mohammed pbuh as the messiah today.These are the same people who had made God their monopoly. So why will they leave Messiah. The main reason they rejected messiah is because he came from among the arabs or ishmaelites and not the Israelites.

Second reason they give is that he nullified torah which according to them will remain intact forever . If we look at their history – First torah was destroyed during the babylonian captivity then again Torah was destroyed during the destruction of the temple about 70 CE by the romans. So this claim of theirs that it will remain intact forever fails . If we look at the mosaic laws and not the story in the first five books – It is very similar to that of the Quran with few exceptions. Torah is too extreme unlike Quran.

Third reason they give today is the same when asked about Jesus that he didn’t fulfill any prophecies.This is a lie as Jews at the time of prophet were waiting for a messiah will be coming from among the arabs/ishmaelites a savior like for them. Proof as we read in various seerah(biography) there were many jewish tribes who had migrated to yathrib or Medina expecting the messiah to come. The most famous ones are Banu- Quraiza, Banu-Qaynuqa and Banu-Nadir .Their claim that he didn’t fulfilled any prophecy is a lie.He indeed fulfilled it which we will read on later below.When the prophet(pbuh) arrived – the mis-interpreted prophecies made them think that when he will come he will make Jews the ruler of the world and everything will be theirs. It will be like what they call today a totalitarian one-world government which will be in the hands of jews.

SOME JEWS WHO REGARDED MOHAMMED(PBUH) AS THE MESSIAH:-

Shimon bar Yochai or Simeon ben yohai  – The eminent jewish rabbi who predated Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and predicted that Messiah will be coming or will come shortly from among the ishmaelites(he was the only one who honestly interpreted Dt 18:18) redeeming the whole world from its misery.

Abdullah ibn Salam - The ex-jew sahabi who converted to Islam.

Jacob ben nathanael ibn al-fayyumi - Another rabbi who came in the medieval ages said that Mohammed (pbuh) was indeed a true prophet.

Now, let us see from judaism’s own sources as to what they expect from him.

JUDAISM EXPECTATIONS OF MESSIAH AND WHO FULFILLS THOSE PROPHECIES
A summarized version is here :-

1.  Restore the Jewish people to Israel within the biblical borders of the land (Isaiah 11.11-12.6, Jeremiah 31.35-40, Ezekiel 47-48). 

REPLY:-   First of all – A very important thing I want to say to my muslims brothers and sisters that majority of the jews whom you see today are not the jews of ancient Israel. Almost 90% of them are Ashkenazi jews who are the descendants of east Europeans or Khazar tribes(a Turkic people) that had converted to Judaism. In  Genesis 10:1-3 – it is mentioned that ashkenaz was a descendant of Japheth and not Shem.  Even though the religion of Judaism dont accept conversion but - In worst  times, you have to be friends with your enemies . They had converted in the medieval ages to escape the persecution and save themselves from ongoing war among muslims and christians. Read Arthur Koestler’s – The thirteen tribe. Some claim that Afghanis(Pashtuns) and Kashmiris are the real descendants of the israelites – Both of whom are  99% muslims. Many will say that it is hypothetical – This theory was proposed not by muslims but the Christians themselves – George Moore. According to me Judaism/Israelite is not a race but a nationality . As they were black jews too back then aka as Ethiopian jews who migrated from Israel to Ethiopia. Even if it is a race or nation then still Prophet Mohammed was sent to everybody not just to arabs or Persians and united them all to worship the one true God when they stand along side by side in mecca during hajj. 

2.  Create peace between Israel and her neighbours and in the whole world (Isaiah 19.21-25, Amos 9.11-14).

REPLY:- Who was able to accomplish this task. I am asking my muslim brethren and honest unbelievers. The jews who were being persecuted by the Christians in Europe and were given shelter in spain and Palestine by muslims. Golden Age of jews during medieval ages was under the muslim rule. Christians have the history of persecuting the jews by labeling them as Christ-killers,god-killers etc – the recent one being holocaust.  Even a Christian author merlin Swartz  acknowledge that muslims were far more tolerant towards jews than Christians.

3.  Restore the Temple and rule the world from Jerusalem (Isaiah 2.1-4, Ezekiel 40-48). 

REPLY:- Today masjid al aqsa and the golden dome or dome of the rock both are able to stand today is because of muslims . During the siege of Jerusalem where muslims emerged victorious under the caliphate of Umar(ra) . Caliph Umar(ra) allowed jews to practice their religion freely in Jerusalem unlike the jews living under the byzantines who had massacred and persecuted them for centuries even after they themselves converted to christianity.

4.  Bring an end to all war and military training (Isaiah 2.4). 

REPLY:-  Prophet Mohammed pbuh established khilafah. The khilafah rule where one leader will rule the who muslim world on the basis of his piety. It which puts and end to all kind of isms like nationalism,racism,tribalism etc. Only Islam had been able to accomplish it unlike Judaism and Christianity had failed to end all kind of ism’s mentioned here. Let me give you an example WW1,WW2 and do I need to mention about racism and other religions too like Buddhism- failed to end nationalism, Hinduism failed – nationalism,casteism etc.

5.  Cause the earth to be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea (Isaiah 11.9, Habakkuk 2.14).

REPLY:- Islam unlike Christianity(especially Catholicism) is the only religion which encourages people to gain knowledge practice and preach it to others. Protestant though encourages gaining knowledge but again their hero says - Sin-boldly. Jews are least concerned about others – No don’t worry I wont quote anything from Talmud here. Buddhist one of the major religion is atheistic for name-sake as you will always see an idol of Buddha next to his followers and do I need to say anything about Hinduism.

WHAT DOES NEW TESTAMENT SAYS ABOUT MESSIAH?

Jesus himself denies that he was the MESSIAH who was predicted in the Tanakh or Old Testament. How let us see:-

JEWS CLAIM THAT MESSIAH WILL BRING PEACE TO THE WHOLE WORLD

The jews says that messiah will bring peace all over the world quoting Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9. Jesus said he was just sent to Israelites – Mt 15:24. Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) is sent as a mercy unto all(alameen) – Quran 21:107. Unlike, Jesus of bible who himself said that he was sent to israelites(Mt 15:24) cursed jews by calling them killer of prophets(Luke 13:34 which is true) and cursed their scholars- Do read the seven woes of pharisees.

KING DAVID CALLS HIM MY LORD.

COMMENT  :- Jesus himself rejected indirectly that he was the messiah and even the fact that Messiah will be the son of David  as mentioned in the gospel of matthew that jesus was a descendant of David – Mt 1:20 and Luke 1:35.

Mt 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,42 saying, “What think ye of Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said unto Him, “The son of David.”43 He said unto them, “How then doth David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying, 44 ‘The Lord said unto my Lord, “Sit Thou on My right hand until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool”’? 45 If David then call Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son? 46 And no man was able to answer Him a word; neither dared any man from that day forth ask Him any more questions.

It does makes sense that father will not call his son – his Lord. And Making his enemies as his footstool means that he will destroy his enemies unlike jesus who was destroyed by his own enemies. Prophet Mohammed pbuh was a warrior who destroyed his enemies like David(pbuh) not because of his personal animosity and  those opposed him were not his enemies but they were the enemies of God – the staunch idolators.

ELIJAH WILL PRECEED THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH

COMMENT : -Mt 17:10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?”11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, “Elijah truly shall first come and restore all things.12 But I say unto you that Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they pleased. Likewise shall also the Son of Man suffer by them.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke unto them of John the Baptist.

Similarities between Jesus and Elijah-
1. Elijah miracles like raising the widow’s dead son - 1 Kings 17:17-24 and Jesus too Luke 7:12 and – The oil and wine miracle which were increased.2 Kings 4:1-7 and  John 2:1-10 were similar
2. As mentioned Jesus said that he had already come indirectly saying that he was Elijah as – In Mt 17:12 Note here -  the disciple understood but never asked him.
3. There is not even one similarity between Elijah and John the Baptist : - Even John the Baptist himself denied that he was Elijah – When he was asked about it in John 1:21
4. There is no prophet between Jesus and Mohammed (pbut) which means the scribes were right when they said that Elijah will come before Messiah.
5. In Malachi 4:5-6 – It is mentioned that like Elijah will come and turn the heart of  fathers to children. A similar thing is said by jesus in matthew 10:21.
6. Elijah was raised to heaven like Jesus - 2 Kings 2:1

DID JESUS DIED OR WAS HE FLOWN UPTO THE HEAVEN LIKE ELIJAH

COMMENT : - We read in the bible that Jesus prayed for not getting crucified(Mt 36:29) but at the same time it is also mentioned that angel came to strengthen him(Luke 22:41-43) and his prayer were answered (Heb 5:7) . His prayers were answered means he was taken up to the heavens by angels. If not then what does it means – Did angel came to strengthen him to wrestle with romans and his prayer that - If it be possible, let this cup pass from me – which cup is he talking about – Cup of tea or coffee. What does it means when it is said that his prayers got answered. So dear Christians brothers and sisters – Don’t believe in blindly following anything or anybody. Do some research and think about it.

SOME MORE REASON AS TO WHY JEWS DENY JESUS(PBUH) AS THE MESSIAH AND ONLY PROPHET MOHAMMED (PBUH) FULFILLS THESE PROPHECIES MAKING HIM THE GRAND MESSIAH WHO WAS SENT AS A MESSENGER TO ALL SENT BY THE GOD.

1. The Messiah is born of two human parents, as we said. But Jesus, according to Christian theology, was born of a union between a Human woman and God.

COMMENT –  This is true that Christians are giving the jews a stick to beat them with. There is nothing like Messiah will be God,God the son or God-like in the Tenach(OT) is one of the major reasons why jews reject him as a messiah.

2. The Messiah can trace his lineage through his human biological father, back to King David (Isaiah 11:1,10; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:21-28; Jeremiah 30:7-10; 33:14-16; and Hosea 3:4-5). But Jesus's lineage cannot go through his human father, according to Christian theology, as Jesus's father was not Joseph the husband of Mary. According to Christian theology, Jesus's father was God.

COMMENT:- I don’t think – I need to say anything regarding it as everybody knows that Prophet Mohammed pbuh had both Human biological father and mother.Also, read above why jesus(pbuh) himself gave a good reason denying the fact that Messiah will not be the descendant of King David(pbuh). If not then why woudn’t the jews play the monopoly game here.

3. The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10). But according to Luke 3:31, Jesus was a descendant of Nathan, another son of King David, and not a descendant of King David through King Solomon.

COMMENT:- The fact that Messiah will be the son of David is denied by
Jesus himself when he said that – Mt 24:45: - If David then call Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”. As I had mentioned earlier that jews would leave no stone unturned to make even Messiah their monopoly through the corrupted word of God.

3. The Messiah is preceded by Elijah the prophet who, with the Messiah, unifies the family (Malachi 4:5-6), which is contradicted by Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37.

COMMENT:- Jesus similarity to Elijah is mentioned above.

4. The Messiah re-establishes the Davidic dynasty through the messiah's own children (Daniel 7:13-14). But Jesus had no children.

Comment:- True, but Prophet Mohammed pbuh indeed had children but was survived by his daughter Fatima (RA). As for Daniel 7:13 – I believe it mentions miraaj and in Dn 7:14 says- nothing is mentioned about his dynasty but mentions that nation shall serve him and his kingdom – that everybody will follow him and serve him pointing towards Prophet Mohammed pbuh ways which muslims call “Sunnah”. Nothing is mentioned about David or Solomon in those verses.

5. The Messiah brings an eternal peace between all nations, between all peoples, and between all people (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9). Obviously there is no peace. Furthermore, Jesus said that his purpose in coming was to bring a sword, and not peace (see Matthew 10:34, as referenced above.)

COMMENT:- I agree as mentioned the so called followers of Jesus(pbuh) had failed to establish peace on earth by spreading all kinds of isms as mentioned earlier.But the meaning of Islam comes from the word Salam meaning peace. It’s unique unlike any religion How? Judaism comes from Judah one of the tribe of Israel, Christianity comes from Christ,Buddhism comes from Buddha, Hinduism comes from the Indus river.

6. The Messiah brings about the universal world-wide conversion of all peoples to Judaism, or at least to Ethical Monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.

COMMENT:- Once again Judaism doesn’t accept conversion. It’s more a nation than a religion. Judaism though a monotheistic faith has closed the door for others. This is not the case with Islam which calls the world to worship one True God or purest monotheism - “Tauheed” unlike Christianity and all other pagan religions - Buddhism and Hinduism.

7. The Messiah brings about an end to all forms of idolatry (Zechariah 13:2). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.

COMMENT:- Also, read the comment above. Christianity still fails here as majority of the Christians today are catholics who are steeped in idolatry. Protestantism – has an absurd philosophy. Sin boldly – says martin luther. So if they follow his teaching and sin boldly by doing idol-worship would they still be considered Christians.

8.   The Messiah brings about a universal recognition that the Jewish idea of God is God (Isaiah 11:9). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.

COMMENT:-  Again read my comment to two Same as above. Islam’s idea of God is purest one unlike Bible’s which promotes more of a anthromorphist , favoritest, sexist, brutal and above all that God is also portrayed as not being omniscient and omnipotent.

9.   The Messiah leads the world to become vegetarian (Isaiah 11:6-9). It isn't.

COMMENT:- This reason sounds a bit ridiculous. If taken literally all animals will die – The wolf shall dwell with the lamb(Is 11:6). Here, the interpreters are not taking the verse literally still they are mis-interpreting it . If taken literally the whole life cycle will come to an end. If not, as per the interpreters when everybody goes veg then about protein required by human body which are necessary to prevent certain disease comes only from the animals flesh.

10.   The Messiah gathers to Israel, all of the twelve tribes (Ezekiel 36:24). Many of the ten lost tribes remain lost.

COMMENT:- Again, do I need to repeat it that Israelites had made God their monopoly by corrupting the word of God are concerned just about Israelites. The true mission of the messiah will be – He shall gather all mankind to pray to the one true God which today is happening in Mecca. Masjid al Aqsa in Palestine today is one the three holiest site in Islam where people from all over the world unite to pray to one God.

11.   The Messiah rebuilds The Temple (Isaiah 2:2; Ezekiel 37:26-28). It hasn't been rebuilt.

COMMENT:- If they are talking about solomons temple(Masjid al aqsa) then it still stands today and not the golden dome which everybody sees whenever the Masjid-Al Aqsa is mentioned. The jews must remember that when they were persecuted from europe especially spain were given shelter by Muslims in Palestine. If not then still the holiest temple mecca has been rebuilt by the Prophet Mohammed pbuh and jews are welcomed only if they put an end to their superiority complex and arrogance by embracing the true message of God which is Islam.

13 - There will be no more famine (Ezekiel 36:29-30). People starve to death every day.

COMMENT:- Again the game of literalism is played by the jews here. Ez 36:30- That ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Contradicting their own message of Zec 12:2 – that idolatory will come to an end. Then how possibly will heathen exist. It is metaphor which means - The famine which stands for Idolatory and other religion will cease to exist - except One and that one is no doubt – The true religion which is Islam.

14 - After the Messiah comes, death will eventually cease (Isaiah 25:8). People die every day.

COMMENT: - If you are talking about spiritual death which means all kind of evil then that’s fine otherwise be careful as in Ecclesiastes 9:3 it is mentioned that everyone has to die.

15. Eventually the dead will be resurrected (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Ezekiel 37:12-13; Isaiah 43:5-6);

COMMENT:- True, if you are talking about the Day of Judgement when everyone will be resurrected then you are right as the Grand Messiah - Prophet Mohammed pbuh was the last prophet who came before the day of Judgement.

16. The nations of the earth will help the Jews, materially (Isaiah 60:5-6; 60:10-12;

COMMENT:- OMG, Monopoly game played again. Do I need to repeat- Messiah will come from among the jews, to the jews and for the jews ONLY.

17. The Jews will be sought out for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23);

COMMENT: - Same as above.

18:. All weapons will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9,12);

COMMENT: - Yes the weapons of heathens,evil,wicked oppressors will be destroyed as mentioned in Ez 39:9. It is said that - If you want peace, prepare for war". Even Jesus said – Luke 22:36- Sell your cloak and buy a sword. Remember - To establish peace it is necessary to destroy the war mongers who definitely will not be standing with lollipops to fight with you.

Finally some messages for you all to remember

John 8:32:- And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
And even if you don’t understand then as jesus said
Matthew 13:13 - Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Also Quran says in V41:53 - Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?

Last but not the least:-
Quran 36:17 :- And our duty is only to proclaim the clear Message."

Allah knows the best,
Your brother in humanity,
Mohammed Rashid Khan

Offline Egyptian

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Assalamoalaikom


I disagree with the previous article ,actually not one prediction regarding the so called "king Messiah" ,has been fulfilled either by Jesus or Mohamed "peace be upon them"...

The so called "king messiah" is nothing but mere a Jewish dream emerged after the destruction of the Davidic monarchy and the Jews dream of a future Earthly king who will turn the Earth into Paradise etc....


not only almost nothing happened either during or after the life of the prophet Mohamed  that can be linked to be a fulfillment to any prediction to such so called Messiah, but more important ....the way the old testament predicts the future goes so much against the way the Quran predicts the future.... 

If not the predicted king messiah be Jesus or Mohamed (peace be upon them),then who is he?

the answer : Just who cares? and who could prove that the old testaments' predictions are inspired ones?!

I have a detailed study dealing with the matter in great details,for those interested to elaborate...

click here   http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,27.0.html

peace

Offline Mohammed.Rashid

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Walaikumsalam warahmatullah,

The so called "king messiah" is nothing but mere a Jewish dream emerged after the destruction of the Davidic monarchy and the Jews dream of a future Earthly king who will turn the Earth into Paradise etc....

Reply:- Brother ur free to disagree or agree but - If u have read the seerah - Several not just 3 jewish tribes migrated to yathrib expecting the messiah to come. It was called as Madinah An-Nabi/Madinat Al-Nabi by the jews too . Messiah will more be like a king - not literally - but as God spoke to him (Dt 18:18) his words was like that of king. King is considered a dictator . But he dictated only what was commanded by God. And If u have read my article I have explained to u completely that what is the meaning of messiah (it is self signifies or means a king) now it just added to make the readers of the bible who are not well versed with this language clear . Yes it is true that they want that king messiah to make them ruler of the earth. The mis-interpretation by jews who had not left (as I had mentioned) making even God as their monopoly so y wud they leave messiah.

Not only almost nothing happened either during or after the life of the prophet Mohamed  that can be linked to be a fulfillment to any prediction to such so called Messiah, but more important ....the way the old testament predicts the future goes so much against the way the Quran predicts the future....  If not the predicted king messiah be Jesus or Mohamed (peace be upon them),then who is he?

Reply:- I doubt that u had read my article completely which proves that only prophet Mohammed fulfills all the prophecy. It is even mentioned in the Gospel of Barnabas that Prophet Mohammed pbuh was the messiah who will come. Atleast we can give it more weightage to it compared to Old testament.

The answer : Just who cares? and who could prove that the old testaments' predictions are inspired ones?!

Reply : -  Nobody can deny that All verses of the Old testament are false(as it also includes Tawheed especially OT) If you do  - u r denying this verse of the quran which says
Quran – 5:157 - Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."

Read my article COMPLETELY  where I had proved that Prophet Mohammed is the messiah.

Some jews and Christians inspite of knowing and realizing that he(mohammed pbuh) is a prophet denied him may be because their business will come to an end as today muslims do inspite of the fact that grave –worship is clearly forbidden in hadith they do it. It is true that early Christians were infact jews who had followed his teaching honestly and for that they persecuted and killed as jesus pbuh was sent only to the jews. Editing(thanks to Al-hafiz) and Mis-interpretation(like muslims do today when it comes to Quran hadith) of bible had played a major role in destroying true religion of their respective prophets(pbut) . Rest of all the verses of quran which u had posted can be explained and looked into detail and context. It is also mentioned the article of urs that jews were involved in shirk – but so r the muslims because of their poor knowledge of Islam which is next to none. They say literally – that doing so and so things u will go to heaven and raised Prophet Mohammed pbuh to the level of jesus  –. Turning around in the direction of madinah after fajr and calling him for help.  I have personally seen them doing sajdah to graves and saying that if u have no money to go for hajj then u shud visit so and so person’s graves – so many times and u will gain the thawab which equals to that of hajj .hence, u don’t need to go for hajj .Finally regarding the corruption of books and some others verses of quran u quoted regarding jews:-

Only one hadith is enough to explain it –
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You would tread the same path as was trodden by those before you inch by inch and step by step so much so that if they had entered into the hole of the lizard, you would follow them in this also. We said: Allah's Messenger, do you mean Jews and Christians (by your words)" those before you"? He said: Who else (than those two religious groups)? 

Allah knows the best

Offline Egyptian

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peace...

well, now let me refute the article objectively ... the basic shortcomings in the article :
1- the arguments based on religious zeal not rationality neither objectivity.
2- arguments crops up in the middle of others making disorganization.
3- irrelevant elaborations to relevant points.
4- constant misuse of the textual support.


I will begin with the point of agreements between us...




Why do the jews reject Jesus as their messiah is because he criticised them exposed their hypocrisy,double standard

I think so,as only one of the reasons.

If jews are asked as to why they reject Jesus as their messiah? They will simply say that he didn’t fulfilled any prophecy.

Not only Jews believe so..... I think any rational objective truth seeker must believe so.


And If Christians are asked as to why jews(the chosen ones) rejected jesus as messiah? Christians will quickly reply – He will fulfill it in the second coming.  The Christians fail or may be they are not aware that there is nothing like second coming of the messiah from Judaism’s own sources or Old testament and may be talmud. Even if they quote some verse – it is regarded as mis-interpretation by the chosen people themselves.

Agreed..

WHY THE JEWS REJECT PROPHET MOHAMMED(PBUH) AS THE MESSIAH?

Mohamed (pbuh) never claimed himself as the awaited king messiah in order for Jews to reject him as messiah.  they reject any claims of him as received a message from God whether a claim to be the messiah (something he never claimed) or a prophet ....



The main reason they rejected messiah is because he came from among the arabs or ishmaelites and not the Israelites. .


In light of the fact that the old testament affirms that the Messiah will be descended from his father through the line of King David.in addition (as you wrote in your article) The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10).

The lineage of Mohamed (pbuh) can't be traced back to king David so he can't be (for that reason and many others) such so called messiah.


though that point and alone refutes the whole article... I will go on add more facts against the claim the Mohamed (pbuh) was the awaited Jewish king messiah.


More positive criticism in next post....     and plz give me time to comment on the whole article.... afterward make counter arguments or agreements with me if you would like to...

take care

salam
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 10:19:48 am by Egyptian »

Offline Egyptian

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This is a lie as Jews at the time of prophet were waiting for a messiah will be coming from among the arabs/ishmaelites

1- Who are those Jews who waited Arab king messiah(not mere a prophet),quote them plz? more important what is their textual support for that?


Actually Jews during ,before and after the mission of Mohamed (pbuh) were anticipating the coming of the Messiah (and Elias as well)and, as long as he hadn’t arrived, were also prepared to accept a prophet from God until he do,very few of them were capable of believing that God would send a Prophet who was not a Jew.... 

 in John we read
"And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Messiah. And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No."


The Jews correctly based their 3 distinct expectations of the 3 distinct persons: Elias, 2) The Davidic king messiah 3) The prophet. on the distinct prophecies that predict the coming of a prophet like Moses ,and the return of Elias (more details on the that next post),and the Davidic king messiah ...




to sum the point.... very few Jews accepted the idea of prophet from among the Arabs,but that doesn't mean they believed in him as the long awaited Davidic king messiah(surely distinct from mere a prophet) been prophesied in the old testament,and even if they believed so ,the textual input is overwhelmingly against so.



To be continued.


« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 11:17:00 am by Egyptian »

Offline Egyptian

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WHAT DOES NEW TESTAMENT SAYS ABOUT MESSIAH?

Jesus himself denies that he was the MESSIAH who was predicted in the Tanakh or Old Testament.

Correction:
Jesus himself AFFIRMED that he was the MESSIAH who was predicted in the Tanakh or Old Testament.

eg; Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter said, “You’re the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus came back, “God bless you, Simon, son of Jonah! You didn’t get that answer out of books or from teachers. My Father in heaven, God himself, let you in on this secret of who I really am.

Mark 14:60-61 In the middle of this, the Chief Priest stood up and asked Jesus, “What do you have to say to the accusation?” Jesus was silent. He said nothing.The Chief Priest tried again, this time asking, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed?”62 Jesus said, “Yes, I am, and you’ll see it yourself.

KING DAVID CALLS HIM MY LORD. COMMENT  :- Jesus himself rejected indirectly that he was the messiah Mt 22:41 

1-There is no rejection at all ,and the original passage not only not about the messiah but the story of the new testament itself is a fabricated one ,manufactured by the writer to make a theological point"that the messiah is more than a human"...

check the wonderful academic criticism of it ,in my study here
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,71.msg886.html#msg886

anyway even ,for the sake of argument,Jesus affirms himself in the passage as not being the predicted messiah,he affirmed "as previously mentioned" himself as the messiah,which suggests clear contradiction "I don't think so"...


And Making his enemies as his footstool means that he will destroy his enemies unlike Jesus who was destroyed by his own enemies.Prophet Mohammed pbuh was a warrior who destroyed his enemies

here we play the double standards , If you are a Muslim who believe that Mohamed pbuh wasn't destroyed by his enemies then you have to believe that Jesus pbuh wasn't destroyed by his enemies as well ,isn't it?!! 


To be continued
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 11:51:50 am by Egyptian »

Offline Egyptian

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ELIJAH WILL PRECEED THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH

COMMENT : -Mt 17:10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?”11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, “Elijah truly shall first come and restore all things.12 But I say unto you that Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they pleased. Likewise shall also the Son of Man suffer by them.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke unto them of John the Baptist.
Similarities between Jesus and Elijah-............................


I think you try to prove that Jesus could be Elijah ...and as he preceded Mohamed pbuh,then Mohamed could be the messiah..... 

you made the same mistake,the zealous writers of the new testament did,when they substituted Elijah with John the baptist,merely for some so called similarities between both !!!!

Quote from: messianicjewishtruth.com/Elijah
Elijah holds a unique place in Judaism, as Elijah never actually died in the Bible. In 2 Kings 2:11, Elijah is brought to Heaven in a chariot of fire, after which Elisha takes over as the primary prophet for the Jewish people. However, Elijah will return, and his return will be quite special. In Malachi 3:23-24, we read that Elijah will return at the time of the Messiah:"23: Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the L-RD.24: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the land with utter destruction."
So, we learn from the Book of Malachi that Elijah will herald the coming of the Messiah. Now, many in the Messianic "Jewish" movement adhere to the Christian belief that John was Elijah, as Jesus claimed that John the Baptist was Elijah in Matthew 11:13-14 and 17:10-13. However, John actually denied being Elijah in John 1:21. Most importantly, keep in mind what we learned in the Book of Kings. Elijah never actually died, yet we read of John's birth in the first chapter of Luke. So, John was born approximately at the time of Jesus, yet Elijah was born hundreds of years earlier and never died! Clearly, John cannot actually be Elijah. Luke 1:17 tries to get around this by claiming that John had the power and spirit of Elijah. However, we are again left with a basic problem; Malachi does not predict that someone with the "spirit of Elijah" will come, but that Elijah himself will come. Since Elijah did not come, and Elijah must herald the Messiah, Jesus cannot claim to be the Messiah.


Neither John the baptist nor Jesus could be a fulfillment of the second coming of Elijah who was raised up to heaven alive and will come back alive before the coming of the messiah "according to the old testament itself"......


the fact that Elijah never came back before the mission of Jesus and mohamed pbuh , so they couldn't have been the promised king messiah.

To be continued...
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 06:18:16 pm by Egyptian »

Offline Mohammed.Rashid

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Correction:
Jesus himself AFFIRMED that he was the MESSIAH who was predicted in the Tanakh or Old Testament.

eg; Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter said, “You’re the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus came back, “God bless you, Simon, son of Jonah! You didn’t get that answer out of books or from teachers. My Father in heaven, God himself, let you in on this secret of who I really am.

Mark 14:60-61 In the middle of this, the Chief Priest stood up and asked Jesus, “What do you have to say to the accusation?” Jesus was silent. He said nothing.The Chief Priest tried again, this time asking, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed?”62 Jesus said, “Yes, I am, and you’ll see it yourself.


MY REPLY - AS I Had mentioned earlier - Messiah is not the unique  term understand this first. The messiah they expecting was an unique prophet who will come and relieve the WORLD from it's misery but they denied him when they expectation that he will make THEM (i.e., jews) the rulers of the world according to talmud and mis-interpretation of certain verses of bible was not proven to be true.  Also, In mt 16:16 - Jesus never said that I am the messiah. As for Mark 14:60-61 be careful - as u r accusing him of accepting the fact that he was the the son of god is also true and correct.

THE JEWS TO THIS DAY BELIEVE THAT MESSIAH WILL NEVER CLAIM TO BE ONE. HE WILL BE RECOGNIZED BY HIS FULFILLMENT OF PROPHECIES WHICH HE IS EXPECTED TO FULFILL. HENCE, EVEN IF JESUS IN THE BIBLE CLAIMS TO BE ONE- HE STILL FAILS.

I am sure u had not read the entire article where I had proven that even the quran says that he was the one about whom the scholars of the judaism and christianity awaited and found him mentioned in their own scriptures.
Leave others - Abdullah ibn salam the ex-jewish sahabi - i hope u have heard and read about him.

Its good to see that somebody atleast replied but Be careful -  u might be on the verge of contradicting the verses of Quran just to prove ur theory to be correct.

I DIDN'T INTENDED TO STROKE MY EGO BY WRITING THIS ARTICLE. IF ONLY CHRISTIANS WOULD HAVE KNOWN MORE ABOUT THE TERM MESSIAH OR CHRIST BETTER. THEIR RELIGION WOULD NOT HAVE EXISTED OR THEY MIGHT HAVE CONVERTED TO ISLAM. MOHAMMED (PBUH) WAS THE  THE ONLY PROPHET SENT UNTO ALL BEINGS (C 21:107) WHICH JESUS (PBUH) WASN'T (Quran 5:72 & MT 15:24) AND HE HIMSELF PREDICTED OF HIS COMING - THIS IS SOMETHING WHICH THEIR OWN BOOKS TESTIFY- AND OUR'S TOO  - (John 14:16 & Quran 61:6)

FINALLY ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST
MRK

Offline Egyptian

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I DIDN'T INTENDED TO STROKE MY EGO BY WRITING THIS ARTICLE.

I'm sure brother the good intentions behind ur article....   and I don't intend my reply to you to be a negative criticism (the thing I hate  most is muslim vs muslim debate),I have a good intention too by my comments.... it is to revise and strengthen the muslim arguments in comparative religion arena....

I myself used to receive some of criticism and revision to my arguments while engaging in discussions through the years ...and have modified many thoughts,refined my approach etc.....


AS I Had mentioned earlier - Messiah is not the unique  term understand this first.

I had replied to that ,they had waited a UNIQUE messiah king,not an ordinary prophet ....


Also, In mt 16:16 - Jesus never said that I am the messiah. As for Mark 14:60-61 be careful - as u
r accusing him of accepting the fact that he was the the son of god is also true and correct.

well ,will you be satisfied ,if I provide you with textual support "according to the new testament" Jesus said he was the messiah,without saying son of God? here you are.....

John 4:25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.” [/quote]


but you know ? we both already committed grave error !!! we resort to proof text to prove whether Jesus wasn't the messiah or was he !!! 
while the fact ,textual support is wholly without merit in the case of the messiah.... 

the fantastic things predicted about the messiah ,if fulfilled ,would be world wide recognized,and there wouldn't be any chance to be denied or controversial ,or any need for books to explain it,his fulfillment will be as clear as the sunlight!!!

I am sure u had not read the entire article

sure I did and objectively.



I had proven that even the quran says that he was the one about whom the scholars of the judaism and christianity awaited and found him mentioned in their own scriptures.


you have mixed the prophecy about prophet Mohamed peace be upon him "Deuteronomy 18:18" and those regarding the Davidic king messiah.....   the prophet foretold is not one and the same the davidic king messiah..


Leave others - Abdullah ibn salam the ex-jewish sahabi - i hope u have heard and read about him.

No doubt ,Abdullah ibn salam believed that Mohamed (pbuh)was a true prophet from God,but who said that he believed in him as the davidic king messiah prophecised in the tankah? would you quote the man ,plz?



Next post ,I will conclude my comments by showing what the Tankah REALLY say about such so called fantastic messiah,and how the theory of Mohamed (pbuh) as the messiah will not only contradict the old testament but also contradict the Quran and sunnah themselves !!..

TO BE CONTINUED.


« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 11:30:29 pm by Egyptian »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers and sisters in Islam,

Did you know that Prophet AHMAD was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls?  Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm to see all you need to see about Prophet Muhammad in the Bible.

Also visit: www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Mohammed.Rashid

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Sorry to say this but ur points too poor to prove ur theory and I honestly doubt that u r a muslim. Dont worry- If u r not its fine we  can continuing discuss on this topic.

Prophet Mohammed pbuh is not the,this or that Messiah does not proves that Islam is a false religion.
Nor does it matters to muslims if he was the messiah the jews awaited or not.

AND IF U R MUSLIM I APOLOGISE TO UR ABSURD THEORY OF MESSIAH AND  I AM SORRY TO SAY THAT
U DONT WANT TO COME THEM TOWARDS ISLAM. HOW, LET ME SAY IT WHY AND HOW.

I by writing on this topic wanted u to show the path that messiah is a term which christians hardly know about.
What it is, what he will do or what he did. If u hate muslim vs muslim then y u bothered to reply .
MY INTENTION WAS - IF ONLY THEY KNEW ABOUT IT THEY WILL INSHA ALLAH COME TO THE  PATH OF TRUTH I.E., ISLAM - IS THE REASON I WROTE THIS ARTICLE. BECOZ IT IS HIDDEN BY THE SCHOLARS OF CHRISTIANITTY

THE JEWS BELIEVE AND THE BIBLE TOO SAYS THAT MESSIAH WILL COME FROM AMONG THE JEWS FOR THE JEWS AND TO THE JEWS ONLY  ONLY .

How - Read it from the mouth of jesus of the bible.
Jesus of bible himself accepted it when he said 
Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews

__________________________________________________________________________


____________________________________________________________________________________


No doubt ,Abdullah ibn salam believed that Mohamed (pbuh)was a true prophet from God,but who said that he believed in him as the davidic king messiah prophecised in the tankah? would you quote the man ,plz?

REPLY :- davidic king messiah - r u joking? I already wrote and had proven that jesus himself denied that the
messiah they were expecting will not descend from david when he said is y he said Mt 22:41-46 - if messiah were to be his son - then y wud king david calls him my lord.

Please read it again with understanding

If u r muslim the Scholars do accep that bible(Greek for books) or whatever u like to callim prophet Mohammed pbuh was
not we have today - Aleppo codex some claim Codex Sinaiticus  & Codex Amiatinus,Vaticanus .Prophet pbuh pre-dates them by many years.

If u r not - then Recently Dr. Daniel Wallace claims that so and so manuscript is oldest. Remember ITS JUST A CLAIM.

I dont understand how many times I need to say that MESSIAH IS NOT A UNIQUE TERM.
SO R U REALLY NOT GETTING MY POINT OR U DONT WANT TO BELIEVE IT.

NOR ANYWER IN THE TANAKH(OT) IT IS MENTIONED THAT HE WILL BE A UNIQUE MESSIAH. IS IT ? THEN
SHOW ME . AND EVEN IN NT - NOWERE JESUS SAYS THAT I AM THE UNIQUE MESSIAH.

A UNIQUE PROPHET YES - IT IS GIVEN TO MOSES PBUH -
DT 34:10 THERE HAS NOT RISEN IN ISRAEL A PROPHET LIKE UNTO MOSES

A muslim asking where had sahibi said so and so.- this again makes me doubt ur claim of being a muslim.
Dont worry I can still prove my point on messiah.

U r asking me for the proof that where has sahibis claimed that Mohammed pbuh is the messiah.
Yet u cannot prove to me thru ur quoting of john 4:25 that jesus is A UNIQUE MESSIAH david king or whatever.

But let me prove - By: Prof. Mahmoud Esmail Sieny
Many historians of religion have pointed out that prophecies were made by the Prophets in the Old Testament and by Jesus Christ in the Gospels about the coming of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). The Bible had in fact detailed descriptions for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). This fact is clearly stated in the Qur’an which says that the Jews “know him (Muhammad) as well as they know their own children….” In the life story of many early converts like Salmaan Al-Farisi we have historical testimony to this fact. For ti was their knowledge of the coming of Muhammad (pbuh) in Arabia (knowledge they learned from pious monks in Iraq and Syria) that made them leave their own homelands in those parts of the world and journey to the deserts of Arabia. And at Makkah and Medina those lucky seekers of truth were fortunate to meet Muhammad (pbuh) the awaited Messiah or Prophet. -  U can read the complete article by him here - http://www.islamunveiled.org/eng/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=113

If u are a muslim then u must believe that Quran has  said that Jews do know Him as they know their own sons.
Surat Al-'An`am [verse 20] - Those to whom We have given the Scripture recognize it as they recognize their [own] sons.

Who else can jews know like their own sons - No doubt that it was none other than or a unique prophet the messiah
awaited by them from the time torah predicted him in Dt 18:18. I WILL RAISE UP A PROPHET NOTE IT IS WRITTEN PROPHET NOT MESSIAH.

More about the sahabi abdullah ibn salam
http://www.onislam.net/english/reading-islam/about-muhammad/his-companions/450551-abdullah-ibn-salam-a-man-from-the-people-of-para.html
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/4703/viewall/


ONE IMP QUESTION I WANT TO ASK U?
IF HE OR ANY NON-MUSLIM WUD HAVE BELIEVED OR MENTIONED THAT HE WAS THE DAVIDIC-KING MESSIAH - WUD U HAVE BELIEVED HIM TO BE TOO?

ALSO, EVEN A JEWISH RABBI - SIMEON BEN YOHAI SAID THAT THE MESSIAH WILL ARRIVE FROM AMONG THE ISHMAELITES
REMEMBER HE PREDATED PROPHET MOHAMMED PBUH.

AND ONE MORE MENTIONED JACOB BIN NATHANEAL.

NOW I HAD GIVEN U A MUCH BETTER REASON TO BELIEVE THAT HE WAS THE MESSIAH. TELL ME WILL U BELIEVE
ONE HIM TO BE ONE NOW.

IF U R A MUSLIM U JUST TO PROVE UR POINT WHICH HAS NO WEIGHTAGE. U R JUST DOING IT TO SATISFY UR EGO. SORRY THIS IS  WHAT I THINK. I APOLOGISE IF UR INTENTION IS SOMETHING ELSE BUT ONLY IF IT IS A GOOD ONE.

Let me tell u that y jesus was never d unique messiah which u claim he was.
The answer is simple - HE DIDNT FULFILLED ANY PROPHECY which old testament predicted or u can say chosen people wanted him to fulfill.

QURAN - WHOM ALLAH GUIDES NO ONE CAN LEAD HIM ASTRAY

Now I will not reply - if u go on repeating the same thing again and again. Read it with understanding try to understand what i want to say. First try to understand the basic thing what my article focuses on then if i think u have some good point then only i will reply. As i have no time to waste.

QURAN - OUR DUTY IS ONLY TO CONVEY(THE MESSAGE)

Offline Egyptian

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Alaikom assalam Brother Osama ,and thanx for your link .... 

no muslim would ever deny that the prophet peace be upon him is mentioned in the torah and Injeel,as the prophet like unto Moses peace be upon him....  and the discussion in the thread is not debating that at all ...

take care ..May Allah bless you..



...........................................

Prophet Mohammed pbuh is not the,this or that Messiah does not proves that Islam is a false religion. Nor does it matters to muslims if he was the messiah the Jews awaited or not.


That is true ... TO ADD, Nor does it matter to NON-muslims if he was the messiah the Jews awaited or not,if he never claimed to be so.


AND IF U R MUSLIM I APOLOGISE TO UR ABSURD THEORY OF MESSIAH .

I don't have a theory regarding the messiah , the messiah for me is none.


MY INTENTION WAS - IF ONLY THEY KNEW ABOUT IT THEY WILL INSHA ALLAH COME TO THE  PATH OF TRUTH I.E., ISLAM - IS THE REASON I WROTE THIS ARTICLE.  ..

I'm sure of your good intentions, but  remember:

Holy Quran 16:125 Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way.

I don't find it wisdom to call non-muslims to Islam with the incredible claim that Mohamed peace be upon him is such so called awaited Davidic jewish king messiah.

I don't believe in "the means justify the ends"
 


THE JEWS BELIEVE AND THE BIBLE TOO SAYS THAT MESSIAH WILL COME FROM AMONG THE JEWS FOR THE JEWS AND TO THE JEWS ONLY  ONLY . .How - Read it from the mouth of Jesus of the bible. Jesus of bible himself accepted it when he said   Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews

You have just provided one of the reasons Jesus couldn't be the messiah(as predicted in the tankah) ....   
the messiah as depicted in the tankah would be FOR the Jews ,not AGAINST them.




I already wrote and had proven that jesus himself denied that the messiah they were expecting will not descend from David when he said is y he said Mt 22:41-46 ...Please read it again with understanding

1- and I say the same ,Please read the previous link (I linked before) about Mathew's misinterpretation of the psalm, again with understanding.

2- more important ,let's for the sake of argument suppose that ,Jesus denied that the Davidic messiah is the seed of David ,on the other hand,the original prophecies in the tankah says he must be from the seed of David,,, what does it mean?
I think in that case we have only two options:

A-either the prophecy of the old testament is true "the messiah as the seed of david",hence giving the lie to Jesus of the new testament.

B- or the prophecy of the old testament is faked, hence we are left with the dramatic conclusion(If there were no prophecy ,there were no fulfillment)..


If u r muslim

I'm.

NOR ANYWER IN THE TANAKH(OT) IT IS MENTIONED THAT HE WILL BE A UNIQUE MESSIAH. IS IT ? THEN SHOW ME .

the incredible specific prophecies regarding such so called messiah would make him clearly unique ... as he is said to make dramatic incredible above imagination changes in the world(something that never and will never happen).



 
A UNIQUE PROPHET YES - IT IS GIVEN TO MOSES PBUH -
DT 34:10 THERE HAS NOT RISEN IN ISRAEL A PROPHET LIKE UNTO MOSES

Prophet Mohamed "pbuh" is like unto Moses (at least we Muslims believe so)....

 
A muslim asking where had sahibi said so and so.- this again makes me doubt ur claim of being a muslim.

I said that Abdullah ibn salam believed that Mohamed (pbuh)was a true prophet from God not the davidic messiah, and you doubt me being muslim !!! ,strange,isn't it?!!


   u cannot prove to me thru ur quoting of john 4:25 that jesus is A UNIQUE MESSIAH david king or whatever..


my point was to prove that the Jews(correctly) differentiated between the promised messiah and the prophet like unto Moses....


Who else can jews know like their own sons - No doubt that it was none other than or a unique prophet the messiah awaited by them from the time torah predicted him in Dt 18:18. I WILL RAISE UP A PROPHET NOTE IT IS WRITTEN PROPHET NOT MESSIAH...


once you omit the part in red ,I agree with you 100% then... and thank you for your note "IT IS WRITTEN PROPHET NOT MESSIAH."



ONE IMP QUESTION I WANT TO ASK U? IF HE OR ANY NON-MUSLIM WUD HAVE BELIEVED OR MENTIONED THAT HE WAS THE DAVIDIC-KING MESSIAH - WUD U HAVE BELIEVED HIM TO BE TOO?...

I won't believe ,reason? because neither he nor anyone else fulfilled ANY of the prophecies mentioned about him in the tankah.  but again ,repeating you correct words (Prophet Mohammed pbuh is not the,this or that Messiah does not proves that Islam is a false religion,Nor does it matters to muslims if he was the messiah the jews awaited or not.)

 
Let me tell u that y jesus was never d unique messiah which u claim he was.

I never said he was.


Now I will not reply

I hope you do for a short while till I make a final concluded post , showing how the old testament REALLY depicts the messiah ,and why such depiction is against the holy Quran itself.


« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 11:15:35 pm by Egyptian »

Offline Mohammed.Rashid

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Offline Egyptian

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The awaited Messiah according to the old testament?

 He is simply the one who is supposed to generate the arrival of heaven on earth.

He is?

A king that will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18.

Mohamed (pbuh) is not descended from King David neither Jesus (pbuh).  so neither of them qualified to be such messiah.


supposing (wrongly) the Jesus of the new testament or whatever person claims that the messiah can't be from the seed of David ,is wholly without merit ,as when it comes to prophecy fulfillment what does matter ,is what the original prophecy says, not what you force it to say...


Once he comes?



He will provide the Jews and the whole world with every good thing imaginable and erase every bad thing imaginable too "a real paradise on earth".


2- The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness

Isaiah 51:11Those the LORD has rescued will return. They will enter Zion with singing; EVERLASTING JOY will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.


The mission of Mohamed or Jesus (pbuh)ended the Jews suffering offering them eternal joy?!!!

exactly the opposite ,their sufferings were doubled,with no EVERLASTING JOY,as the prophecy claims. 


3- There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease

Isaiah 25:8He will swallow up death for all time, And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces, And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth.



No comment !!!


3- The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance !

Zechariah 8:2323 This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’”


Had that been fulfilled?!!!!!!!!!  Imagine after the mission of Islam the people asking the Jews for spiritual guidance !!!!!



4- ONE CREED AND ONE RELIGION !!!

Isa, 66:23 ("And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord") .Psalm 86:9 ("All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name"), Isa. 11:9 ("...for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea")


Not only it is the impossible dream to make all people believe in one religion,but also it is against the quran teachings ...which clearly teaches that believe and disbelieve is remaining till day of resurrection...eg;

Holy Quran 5:14 And with those who say: "Lo! we are Christians," We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished. Therefor We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork.


Holy Quran 5:64The Jews say: "Allah's Hand is tied up ." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for what they uttered. Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. He spends (of His Bounty) as He wills. Verily, the Revelation that has come to you from Allah increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief. We have put enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war, Allah extinguished it; and they (ever) strive to make mischief on earth. And Allah does not like the mischief-makers.

getting the whole world into one religion is nothing but a wishful thinking.....


not finished yet........  more in next post


TO BE CONTINUED


Offline Mohammed.Rashid

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One last time - Read my article completely and try to understand wer all ur points r covered.Dont copy paste it from anywer.

Sorry but u have no new points as it all has been already answerd.