Author Topic: A question to mclinkin94  (Read 27496 times)

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Offline Black Muslim

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Re: A question to mclinkin94
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2014, 11:29:41 PM »
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The reason why I support translation 2 is because it seems to better fit the context
For the thousandth time : Ahsana means NOTHING except making something in a good way . So all the points you base on "You can interpret the verse in two ways" are meaningless . You CAN'T interpret the sign in two ways . The word for improving and perfecting something is "Hassana" and it's way different from "Ahsana" . This is the essential matter in the case and you ignore it like it's nothing .

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: A question to mclinkin94
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2014, 11:37:59 PM »
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The reason why I support translation 2 is because it seems to better fit the context
For the thousandth time : Ahsana means NOTHING except making something in a good way . So all the points you base on "You can interpret the verse in two ways" are meaningless . You CAN'T interpret the sign in two ways . The word for improving and perfecting something is "Hassana" and it's way different from "Ahsana" . This is the essential matter in the case and you ignore it like it's nothing .


And for the Thousandth time, Quran 32:7 could be interpreted that Allah creates or that Allah makes his creation that he already created good. I support the latter. No, you can't interpret a sign in two ways, that is why I show you which way makes the most sense.

And for the Thousandth time, the difference of translation of "perfected" and "good" is not there. Both meanings work and they both mean the same thing.

Secondly, explain why sahih international used the word "perfected". (this is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with my point, whether the translation is good or perfected, my point remains--you never seem to get that). If you make something you already made good, you have improved it. I made a cake. And then I made the cake good. I just made the cake better than its original form. Sahih international understood that and translated the word as "perfected". I have no issue with this either.

Read the rest of Quran 32:7-9. Allah tells us that a common trend in his creation is that he creates and then he creates the creation good. Then he tells us that be began the creation of the human being. And then when it comes to verse 9, the creation of the human being is now good. Allah makes everything that he creates, good/perfect.


I'll continue tomorrow. I need to get some things done.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 11:41:28 PM by mclinkin94 »

Offline Black Muslim

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Re: A question to mclinkin94
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2014, 05:48:49 AM »
"Sigh"
I'll stop here . Because you apparently dodge whatever doesn't support your doctrine of Darwin and the likes of him .

Offline ali achinxo

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Re: A question to mclinkin94
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2014, 09:41:07 AM »
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The religion hasn't been corrupted. Many Quranists have existed back then and today. And the fact that I am here defending true Islam shows Allah protecting his deen.
So this argument is invalid.

I know Islam hasnt been corrupted. Allah has protected Islam, unlike other religions like christianity and Judaism. But the people get corrupted. Just like the hadith rejectors, like the shia, like sufi mushriks, like batiniyah..etc.

Thats a GREAT LIE. There hasnt been many hadith rejectors in the past. In the past their were groups that rejected AHAD narrations or other levels of transmissions. For example, the  Mu'tazila. From the 8th century , they believed in Hadiths that were mutawatir but not Ahad. But they accepted ahad narrations on occasions. For basic information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%27tazila#Validity_of_hadith

So this argument is valid

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I've been on this topic for years...I gave you evidence, and now it is your turn to search. See both sides of the argument

I refuted your claims and gave you evidence. I have searched and looked at both sides of the argument. Actually i was a part hadith rejector myself for a few months but alhamdulilah i saw the overwhelming evidence and returned back to the Ahl As Sunnah Wal Jama'ah.

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NOPE. Arguments from authority have no validity in Islam

Arguments from authority do have validity. Just as arguments from Allah has validity, because he is authority. Just like arguments from the prophet has validity, because he is authority. And just like the arguments from scholars has validity because they are the authority.

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Like I said and keep saying. GIVE ME their arguments, and I will show you why they are invalid. That is how we debate. Why are you so reluctant to do this? Fear?
I've viewed their arguments, but how could I know which ones you adhere to? So this is up to you. Either you present arguments, or you just say that Islamic authorities support your version of Islam (if you can even call it Islam).Again, arguments from authoirty have no value. I could site Shia scholars and say "see they are scholars, they know more than you therefore their version of Islam (if you can call it Islam) is right". So no. you are gonna need to do better than that.

Mclinkin i have gave you evidence from the Quran. Stop trying to act like you havent read the evidence and hide away. Arguments are in the scholars of ISlam i have read them but i am not going to go on a hunt for every information in every book. You go and look at the info. Again evidence has been presented. There is no such thing as Shia scholars. Once they come back to Islam then they will be in authority until then they are kafirs. The only "knowledge" that they have is the lies that they made up 10 min before they give a speech.

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Time of the Sahaabah? How do you know that is what they said? How do you know? Through utilizing a potentially corrupt source. Wow, looks like you are using reason as the Quran wants you to use...

No. The source wasnt corrupt but was protected by the people. There were hadith compilations in the time of the sahaabah and the tabieen. That were related to us through mutawatir chains. The same muttawatir chains and individuals that transmitted the Quran.

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Anyway, enough with the authority nonsense. I could point you to many hadith rejecters who are scholars, but, I don't do that. Instead I present arguments...

point them to me, let me investigate who they are.

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The same arguments apply to your version of Islam. They are not arguments, you just slandered shia Islam and any shia can slander your version and call you shirk and kufr.

My whole point was that arguments from authority hold no value as I could point you to Shia scholars with authority. And I could say "they know more than you, therefore they are right". That is what you are doing with me. You are pointing me to scholars and saying that they know best and therefore are right.

The whole point am saying is that "shia scholars" do not believe in Islam, they dont have evidence from the Quran or Sunnah. The same with you.

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Yes, the Sahabbah obeyed the messenger through orders in the Quran only!!!! The prophet's orders come from the Quran only. He makes up nothing new.

Where did the Quran say the follow the prophet is to follow the Quran and Sunna!!!!! Where!!!! Stop with this heresy, this is the talk of a disbeliever!

You liar. Your saying that the prophet only spoke Quran, and he didnt say a word. How did he live. How did he walk in the street. When people greeted him did he stay silent. When aisha talked to him did he keep his mouth closed. NO. He talked, he lived, he was the explainer of the Quran. His life is testimony to that. He didnt make anything knew these are the sunnah in accordance with the QUran. Its not a new law or something. Or are you saying that the prophet did speak and order the believer to do something but it is ok for the sahabah to disobey the prophet because it was not a Quranic verse?? Astaghfurrulaah. You are misguided. Better Study Islam again.

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”Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?” The Word of your Lord is complete in truth and in justice” 6:115

Does that sound like Allah wanted you to use an external source given that the Quran is fully detailed and complete. HOw about these verses:

”This is not fabricated ‘hadith’; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a guidance and mercy for those who believe” 12:111
”We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance and mercy and good news for the submitters” 16:89

In spite of the very clear words: “fully detailed”, “details of everything” and “explanations for everything” the corrupt interpreters somehow still claim that the Quran does not include all the details! Sadly, they claim that the Quran has only mentioned the major outlines of the religion while as the details of everyday rituals are only to be found in the Hadith and Sunna!

These false claims only go to expose these people’s ignorance of the Quran, and also their disbelief in God's words.

Then the prophet explained these verses explained Islam. He did not add anything to the Islam that Allah didnt order.

You are a outright disbeliever for disbelieving in the Quran and the Prophet.

Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided. [Quran 7:158]

59:7. ...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)...

All the rest of the comment you made is telling the people to believe in the Quran because that is the recitation that was revealed. If they disbelieve in the Quran of course they are going to disbelieve in the prophet. You are so deceptive in twisting the truth.



















Offline ali achinxo

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Re: A question to mclinkin94
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2014, 10:35:46 AM »
Allah says, "And if they believe as you (i.e.,the Sahabah) believe then they are rightly guided, but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition." [Soorah al-Baqarah (2): 137]In light of this verse, the correct understanding is what emulates the beliefs and understandings of the Sahabah (the Prophet's Companions).

The Sahabah were the fortunate people who accompanied the Prophet and learned the religion directly from him . They witnessed the revelation of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah and experienced the circumstances in which they were revealed. The Sahabah's understanding of the religion is therefore, the most pure and perfect, and they are a group that has definitely succeeded in achieving what Faith is meant to achieve, i.e. Allah's Pleasure. So if your going against them your going against the prophet, therefore going against Allah Azawajal.

“And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhajirun (those who migrated from Makkah to al-Medina) and the Ansar (the people of al-Medina who helped the Muhajirun) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.” [Soorah at-Tawbah (9):100]

Allah says, "Indeed, in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad ) you have a good example to follow, for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much." [Soorah al-Ahzab (33): 21]

Now you can turn and twist this anyway you like saying " to follow the prophet is to follow Allah". But here it say follow the prophet as an example. In other verses yes it can be said to follow Prophet is to follow Allah. But here it says to follow the Prophet as example. What is his example? His sunnah. He himself. So to follow the prophet is also to follow Allah. So it applies to other verses as well. The truth stands out from falsehood. Its upto you to leave your modernist corrupted interpretations and follow the truth.

The very purpose of sending a human Messenger was for people to take him as an example in their day to day lives, "Say, 'If there were on the earth, angels walking about in peace and security, We should certainly have sent down for them from the heaven, an angel as a Messenger." [Soorah al-Isra (17): 95]

See Allah sent us a human messenger so we could benefit from the life and sayings and EXAMPLE of Muhammad who lived as we lived. We follow him in how to eat, what to say, when to say, how to make wudu.....etc all the examples of a human prophet.


Offline ali achinxo

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Re: A question to mclinkin94
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2014, 11:19:59 AM »
The Qur'aan itself refers to revelation being received from Allah that is not found in the Qur'aan and here are few examples:

Allah says in the Qur'aan, "And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad)." [Soorah al-Baqarah (2): 143]

This verse shows that Allah had assigned the previous Qiblah of the Muslims but there is no verse in the Qur'aan designating Jerusalem as the previous Qibla. This means that there has to be an alternative form of 'Wahy' (revelation) apart from the Qur'aan through which Allah revealed the previous command of facing towards Jerusalem. This Command is in the Sunnah of the Prophet PBUH.

"And (remember) when the Prophet PBUH disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his wives (Hafsah), so when she told it (to another i.e. Aa'isha), and Allah made it known to him, he informed part thereof and left a part. Then when he told her (Hafsah) thereof, she said, 'Who told you this?' He said, 'The All-Knower, the All-Aware (Allah) has told me." [Soorah at-Tahrim (66): 3]

The verse says, "Allah made it known to him," and yet, there is no verse in the Qur'aan that makes mentions this.

To obey the Prophet is to obey Allah:

He who obeys the Messenger [Muhammad] has indeed obeyed Allah.. (Qur'an 4: 80)

Say [Muhammad to mankind]: 'If you [really] love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins.' ...(Qur'an 3: 31)


See whoever follows the Prophets Sunnah follows Allah.

Do not hold the Messenger's calling (you) among you to be like your calling one to the other; Allah indeed knows those who steal away from among you, concealing themselves; therefore let those beware who go against his order lest a trial afflict them or there befall them a painful chastisement. (24:63)

Offline ali achinxo

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Re: A question to mclinkin94
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2014, 12:05:58 PM »
If the Companions were with the Prophet and they wanted to leave to go somewhere, it was considered to be one of the necessary aspects of emaan that they should first seek his
permiission:

The true believers are only those, who believe in Allah and His Messenger, and when they are with him on some common matter, they do not leave until they have asked his permission. Verily! Those who ask your permission, those are they who [really] believe in Allah and His Messenger. So if they ask your permission for some affairs of theirs, give permission to whom you will of them, and ask Allah for their forgiveness. Truly, Allah is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Qur'an 24: 62)

If Allah made it a necessary element of faith for the Companions to seek permission to go somewhere when they were with the Prophet, then it is even more obvious that it is a
necessary element of faith for them not to adopt a view in Religion without fIrst seeking his permission.


Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A question to mclinkin94
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2014, 05:13:14 PM »
"Sigh"
I'll stop here . Because you apparently dodge whatever doesn't support your doctrine of Darwin and the likes of him .

Do you guys want me to close this thread?  Please brothers, I didn't mean for this blog to be compulsive and time devouring.  I don't mind disagreements and debates, but I do mind for brothers and sisters here to waste their times and hurt their personal lives.  I know that many of you are also students.  I don't want this blog to be a distraction.

I tell you what.  I am going to close this.  And please no more evolution debates!  I will debate brother Mclinkin94 on evolution and also on the Hadiths some other time.  I owe him these two debates.  Brother Mclinkin94, there are stunning End of Times Prophecies and and also Miracles in the Hadiths that are mind-blowing.  I did make a post about this in another post yesterday.  I will update it with ample Hadiths Insha'Allah.  We can't just reject all Hadiths, akhi.  I will prove it to you Insha'Allah scientifically and logically.

Ok, this thread is closed.  I am very sorry beloveds :(.  I hope you understand.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah