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Offline Isa27James

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a christian accused the following
« on: May 04, 2015, 11:16:21 AM »
  Muslims claim that Koran 5:32 is their god allah's words. But is it ? Most of the Koran comes from Mohammad copying stories from Gnosticism and those who practiced it around him. Mohammad also copied much from the Jewish Talmud, which was written by ancient Jewish teachers..Actually much of Mohammad's book this Koran is copied from different sources that were around him. None came from a supposed angel called Jibril. Here is one of the proofs. More will be given to the Muslim skeptic if they were to ask me. Peace. Koran 5:32 Sahih International
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

Compared to:

Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 37a
"Whoever destroys a soul from Israel, the Scripture considers it as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life from Israel, the Scripture considers it as if he saved an entire world."

Notice in the Koran the added disclaimer [unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land.]

For you Muhammad Lawal Badamasi. Please research each one . And when you are ready I will give you more. Thanks. The source of Sura 3:35-37 is the fanciful book called The Protevangelion's James the Lesser.

• The source of Sura 87:19 is the Testament of Abraham.

• The source of Sura 27:17-44 is the Second Targum of Esther.

• The fantastic tale that God made a man "die for a hundred years" with no ill effects on his food, drink, or donkey was a Jewish fable (Sura 2:259ff.).

• The idea that Moses was resurrected and other material came from the Jewish Talmud (Sura 2:55, 56, 67).

• The story in Sura 5:30,31 can also be found in pre-Islamic works from Pirke Rabbi Eleazer, the Targum of Jonathan ben Uzziah and the Targum of Jerusalem.

• The tale of Abraham being delivered from Nimrod's fire came from the Midrash Rabbah (see Suras 21:51-71; 29:16, 17; 37:97,98). It must be also pointed out that Nimrod and Abraham did not live at the same time. Muhammad was always mixing people together in the Quran who did not live at the same time.

• The non-biblical details of the visit of the Queen of Sheba (Saba) in Sura 27:20-44 came from the Second Targum of the Book of Esther.

• The source of Sura 2:102 is no doubt the Midrash Yalkut (chapter 44).

• The story found in Sura 7:171 of God lifting up Mount Sinai and holding it over the heads of the Jews as a threat to squash them if they rejected the law came from the Jewish book Abodah Sarah.

• The story of the making of the golden calf in the wilderness, in which the image jumped out of the fire fully formed and actually mooed (Suras 7:148; 20:88), came from Pirke Rabbi Eleazer.

• The seven heavens and hells described in the Quran came from the Zohar and the Hagigah.

• Muhammad utilized the Testament of Abraham to teach that a scale or balance will be used on the day of judgment to weigh good and bad deeds in order to determine whether one goes to heaven or hell (Suras 42:17; 101:6-9).

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 01:28:21 PM »
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

I am tired of hearing this same bullshit again and again. >:( Dear Bro Isa, just give him this verse;

[5:48]And We have sent down to you the Book in Truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it....

Their foul argument and false claims would be reasonable and logical if the Quran contained all or at least most of the Talmud in it. But as we can see, the references are ll different. And the Quran has much more contradictions with the Judio-Christian scriptures than the similarities it has with those. So showing that the Quran has similarities with ONLY FEW things of those scriptures proves.......like zero thing! And how does he know that those stories in th Talmud are false? ??? Why doesn't he bring proofs?

[2:111]Say: Bring proofs if you speak the truth.

And just for the record, almost all christian stories of Jesus has similarities with the Egyptian deity Horus, doesn't mean Jesus PBUH is a fictional character.

So, at last, throw their claims and arguements in the garbage and them in eternal Hell.

Peace....

Tahmeed
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 01:31:45 PM by Tahmeed »

Offline submit

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2015, 01:50:46 PM »
The oldest fragment of Babylonian Talmud dated to be 850AD thats 230 years after Quran was written. So it can also be the other way round where Jewish Rabbis that live under the ruling of Muslims added the words of Quran into their teachings.

And lets say the wordings in Babylonian Talmud is still in exact copy to that of Babylonian era, then Quran is simply reiterating reminders of the past given to Children of Israel.

Quran 5:32 For example begins with the phrase "Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that..."

Offline Isa27James

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2015, 05:21:14 PM »
Assalam  alykam  he also said nimrod and Abrham  did not live in the same time but i thought they did?



he claims Muhammad may peace be upon him always mixed people up

Offline Abu Abdullah

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2015, 07:15:14 PM »
I think this might help. I found this from here www.joyofsatan.org
"It has served us well, this
myth of Christ"
-Pope Leo X [1475-1521]*
THE MYTH OF THE
RESURRECTION:
STOLEN!
The resurrection is a
common theme found in
numerous completely
different religions throughout
the world, symbolic of a
descent to the underworld
and a later return.
Mesopotamia: Ishtar's/
Inanna's descent and return
[she was resurrected from
the dead], Egypt: Osiris, God
of the Underworld was
resurrected, Greece:
Persephone's descent into
the underworld and return,
the list of resurrected Gods
is extensive and is based a
concept, not actual
characters. This allegory is
based upon the Magnum
Opus and what is known as
the "Nigredo Stage." For
more information, read the
article Exposing Spiritual
Corruption: Spiritual Alchemy
& the Bible.
THE NUMEROUS TRINITIES:
Anu, Enlil and Ea- the
Christian Church stole
their "God the Father,"
and "God the Son" from
this one.
Bel-Saturn, Jupiter-Bel,
and Baal-Chom
Brahma, Vishnu, and
Siva
Mithra, Varuna, and
Indra
Jupiter, Juno, and
Minerva
Osiris, Isis, and Horus
Three-bodied goddess
Hecate
Three-headed Scylla
Triune divinities of the
Cabiri.
Three-headed Dog,
Cerberus
Taoism: the trinity San
Qing [Three Pure Gods].
Yu Qing [Jade Pure] Shang
Qing [Upper Pure] and Tai
Qing [Great Pure]
Monju Bosatsu, Fugen
Bosatsu and the historical
Buddha called the "Shaka
Trinity" [SHAKA SANZON]
Ka [Spirit or Ether], Ba
[ Body], and the Ankh
[Immortality]
Tamas [Stability] Sattwa
[orderliness] Rajas
[Restlessness] from the
"Guna" Sanskrit
translation
Artemis, Aphrodite, and
Hecate
Kore, Persephone, and
Demeter
Shen [Spirit], C'hi
[Vitality], and Ching
[Essence] the three
treasures of Taoist Wai
Tai [internal alchemy]
Alpha, Omega, and Iota
The Devil's Trident [the
"Trishul"]
Of course, we can't forget
"the Father, the Son and the
Holy Ghost."
The Nazarene's crucifixion is
nothing new. Acts 5:30 The
God of our fathers raised up
Jesus, whom ye slew and
hanged on a tree. I Peter
2:24 Who his own self bare
our sins in his own body on
the tree, that we, being dead
to sins, should live unto
righteousness: by whose
stripes ye were healed.
The Norse God Odin
preceded Jesus the Christ.
Odin hung from a tree and
experienced a death of sorts
to obtain knowledge.
Through being "reborn," he
obtained gnosis [advanced
spiritual knowledge], as did
the Egyptian God Set who
was “crucified” on a “cross”
known as a furka.1 In
addition, Krishna, Marsyas,
Dodonian, and Zeus also
hung from trees. This is also
the meaning of the hanged
man card in the Tarot. The
Buddha also sat beneath a
"Bo Tree." "Bo" is of "Boa"
meaning "serpent" the
kundalini. The tree is an
ancient depiction of the
human soul, with the trunk
being symbolic of the spine
and the branches
symbolizing the 144,000
nadis with the leaves and
fruits symbolizing the fruits
of meditations; the life force
and powers of the mind and
soul. In addition, Krishna,
Marsyas, Dodonian, and
Zeus also hung from trees.
"144,000" is another Jewish/
Christian Biblical corruption
of an allegory having to do
with the nadis of the human
soul, of which are special
pathways for the life-force.
Below is a further list of
Gods who hung from trees:
Tammuz of Syria, 1160
BCE
Wittoba of the
Telingonese, 552 BCE
Iao of Nepal, 622 BCE Iao
is often spelt "Jao" sound
familiar? This is the root
of the Hebrew god
"Jehova."
Hesus of the Celtic Druids,
834 BCE. Note the
similarity of "Hesus" with
"Jesus."
Quetzalcoatl of Mexico 587
BCE
Quirinus of Rome 506 BCE
Prometheus 547 BCE "In
the account of the
crucifixion of Prometheus
of Caucasus, as furnished
by Seneca, Hesiod and
other writers, it is stated
that he was nailed to an
upright beam of timber to
which were affixed
extended arms of wood,
and that this cross was
situated near the Caspian
Straits."
Thulis of Egypt, 1700 BCE
Indra of Tibet, 725 BCE
Alcestos of Euripedes, 600
BCE
Atys of Phrygia, 1170 BCE
Crite of Chaldea, 1200 BCE
Bali of Orissa, 725 BCE
Mithra of Persia, 600 BCE
The above list was taken
from the book "The World's
Sixteen Crucified Saviors" by
Kersey Graves, Sixth
Edition- 1960
Also, the regarding the name
"Jesus," the five letters
represent the five elements-
fire, earth, air, water, and
quintessence of the human
soul, the fictitious character
was stolen from Pagan
ALLEGORIES- he was said to
have lived "33 years" which
correspond to the
vertebrate of the human
spine where the kundalini
serpent ascends, which
transforms the human mind
and soul into super
consciousness. This is what
is meant by a 33rd degree
Mason. The two others who
were crucified along with the
Nazarene make up another
trinity and are again
ALLEGORIES of the three
major sections of the soul
where there is a cross of
energies; the main being the
neuter heart chakra [larger
cross], where the shoulder
chakras have wings and the
two smaller hip and sixth
chakras. For those of you
who are unfamiliar with the
occult, study everything on
this website and also the Joy
of Satan website which is
very revealing regarding
spiritual knowledge.
The Nazarene was invented
from a CONCEPT. The
Nazarene is what is known
as the chi, the "witchpower,"
"prana" and other terms for
the powers of the human
mind and soul. The many
depictions of halos indicate
the risen Serpent of Satan,
also known as the kundalini.
The cross was originally
equal-armed and is the
shape of the human soul.
This has been hideously
corrupted as well. The
"Jesus Saves" bunk that
Christians parrot out like a
pull on the cord child's toy, is
false. In reality, only your
own powers will save you.
Through power meditation,
we can heal ourselves, and
survive situations that will
prove disastrous to those
who lack this knowledge. The
ascended serpent is the
prerequisite for the Magnum
Opus working that makes
one physically and spiritually
perfect and immortal. This is
another area where the
deluded Christians keep
repeating the "everlasting
life" phrase without any idea
of what it really is, means or
how to obtain it.
The Latin cross was not a
part of Christianity until the
7th century and not fully
acknowledged until the 9th
century.
Primitive churches preferred
to represent the Nazarene
with the lamb. The lamb, by
the way is another stolen
symbol. The lamb of Easter is
represented by the sign of
Aries the Ram" [which begins
on March 21st of every
year]. The Lamb was also
carried by Hermes and
Osiris.
The spring lamb, symbolic of
when the sun enters the sign
of Aries, which is symbolized
by the ram, also has to do
with beginning the Magnum
Opus working.
CHRISTIAN HOLIDAYS HAVE
BEEN STOLEN AS WELL. ALL
COINCIDE WITH PAGAN
HOLIDAYS AND NOTED TIMES
OF THE YEAR.
EASTER was stolen from
Astaroth. Originally known as
"Ashtar." This holiday
coincides with the Vernal
Equinox of spring when day
and night are of equal length.
This holiday is known as
"Eastre" to the Anglo-
Saxons. As the Goddess of
fertility, she was associated
with rabbits and eggs. The
Christians stole this holiday
and corrupted its meaning.
Other names for the holiday
include: Easter, Eastre, Eos,
Eostre, Ester, Estrus,
[Estrus is when an animal
goes into heat; mating
season], Oestrus, Oistros,
and Ostara. Again, the "Lamb
of God" was stolen from the
Zodiac sign of Aries the Ram,
which occurs every spring.
THE YULE SEASON, December
25th. Coinciding with the
Winter Solstice, December
25th is close to the shortest
day of the year, and is the
birth date of the Persian God
Mithra, and is the Roman
Holiday of Saturnalias. The
tree, decorations, baking,
gifts and celebrating have
NOTHING to do with the
Nazarene. These are carry-
overs from Pagan
celebrations. Again, the tree
with the lights and
decorations is symbolic of
the risen serpent, the soul
that has been lit up, as all of
the 144,000 nadis are alive
with energy. The shape of
the fir tree, as it culminates
in a point, symbolizes the
welling up of energy to the
top of the head, no different
form the symbolism of the
Egyptian pyramids,
terminating in a point. There
are many different Pagan
Gods associated with and
celebrated around or on
December 25th.
"All Saint's Day" corresponds
with "Halloween/Samhain."
"Assumption Day" coincides
with "Lammas Day" of the
"Summer Solstice."
All of these holidays which
were originally GENTILE/
PAGAN have been replaced
to conform with and focus on
fictitious Jewish characters.
For more detailed information
regarding the theft and
corruption of Pagan holidays,
see The Stolen Year
CHRISTIAN VESTMENTS AND
THEIR WITCH/SORCERER
PARALLELS:
The Cincture is a
parallel to the Witch's
Cord or Girdle
The Alb is a
Ceremonial Robe
The Bishop's Miter is
a copy of the Ancient
Egyptian Crowns of
the Gods and the
Pharaohs
The Crosier
represents the
sorcerer's blasting
rod and bears a
strong resemblance
to the Ancient
Egyptian Crook
THE CHRISTIAN ALTAR IS
SET UP NEARLY IDENTICAL
WITH A RITUAL ALTER FOR
WITCHCRAFT:
The usual Christian
mass/service makes use
of the following:
The Bell
The Incense burner/
Thurible
The Candles
The Host
The Book
The Chalice filled with
wine
Oil
Yet, in spite of this, the
Christian Church
murdered en masse,
those accused of being
witches, sorcerers and
those of Pagan religions.
THE SORRY JOKE OF
CHRISTIAN SACRAMENTS:
With Christian sacraments, it
is obvious they are bogus.
One can come and go as one
pleases and they have no
meaning. Of course this
stands to reason as they
were all stolen. Some blatant
examples:
Baptism with water
STOLEN!
Confession- stolen from
the Papyrus of the Royal
Mother Nezemt
The Communion Host
STOLEN!
During a mass or church
service, the priest or
minister recites the line of
"Eat my body and drink my
blood" for the blessing of the
communion host/Eucharist.
This is a simulation of a
human blood sacrifice. For
more in-depth information,
please see The Christian
Mass/Service: a Simulation of
a Human Blood Sacrifice
The "Holy Spirit"
The "Holy Spirit" supposedly
descended upon the apostles
of the Nazarene in tongues
of fire. AGAIN, this is the
Serpent of Satan, the
kundalini, and has been
stolen and corrupted from
Pagan religions, especially
those of the Far East.
Paganism has been labeled
as "Satanism." Also, the word
"Pagan" means "Gentile."
Acts 2:2-4
2:2 And suddenly there came
a sound from heaven as of a
rushing mighty wind, and it
filled all the house where
they were sitting.
2:3 And there appeared unto
them cloven tongues like as
of fire, and it sat upon each
of them.
2:4 And they were all filled
with the Holy Ghost, and
began to speak with other
tongues, as the Spirit gave
them utterance.
The Serpent is known to
bring knowledge and
expanded consciousness;
enlightenment.
"Ushnisha" is known as
“flame of invisible light” sat
upon the head of the Buddha
or Buddhist holy man
indicating divine intelligence.
The flames are the ascended
kundalini serpent, which is of
Satan.
The Rosary was stolen
from Tibetan Mala Beads.
Mala beads are used for
counting mantras, by
sliding the fingers from
bead to bead, so one is
not distracted by having
to keep track of the
numbers during meditation.
The repetition of the "Hail
Marys" and the "Our
Fathers" most common to
Catholicism were stolen
and corrupted from the
Far East Asian Mantras. A
Mantra is a word of power,
vibrated repeatedly to
focus the mind in
meditation, and to manifest
one's wishes and desires
into reality. "AUM" is the
most common, and this is
where the Christian used
word "AMEN" was stolen
from; also from the
Egyptian God Amon, whose
name means the same
"AUM." The robotic
repetitious prayers recited
over and over again in
Christian Churches are
also corrupted imitations
of mantras.
The church steeple is a copy
of the Egyptian Obelisk; the
only difference is the crucifix
on top. We are all familiar
with the Egyptian obelisk,
such as "Cleopatra's
Needle." This has a lot in
common with the "Maypole."
The "Maypole" was the
symbol for the May King's
phallus [erect penis]. This is
a symbol of fertility. On the
eve of Beltane [April 30th],
celebrants danced around
the maypole. The original
Egyptian obelisks were
symbols of the phallus. They
represented the erect organ
of the earth God "Geb" as he
lay on the ground trying to
reach up to unite himself with
the Goddess "Neith/Nut" of
the overarching sky.
Unbeknownst to most
Christians, their church
steeple is a symbolic erect
penis with a cross on top.
The HALO, indicative of a
risen Serpent of Satan
[kundalini], was stolen
from Hindu Gods and the
Buddha. Both religions
predated Christianity by
centuries.
That annoying fish symbol
the Christians use has also
been stolen and corrupted.
It is called a "yoni" and the
Christians turned it on its
side. It is really a vagina
and its correct position is
seen here at left. The yoni is
a very ancient symbol and
can be seen in many old
decks of Tarot cards, as is
pictured here.
Christians venerating
relics, ringing bells and
burning incense are
unwittingly imitating Hindu
rituals that were
established many
centuries before Judeo/
Christianity.
The praying hands were
stolen as well. They are
an ancient Yogic Mudra.
There are statues of the
Hindu Gods and also the
Buddha with the praying
hands known as the
"NAMASTE MUDRA." The
folded hands as well, are
a variation, and another
mudra that was stolen.
Mudras are used in
meditation to connect the
minor chakra circuits in the
hands and fingers. Many
Yoga asanas have these
as well. Check any on-line
images of Hatha Yoga
postures. Yoga predates
Christianity.
The Saints took the place of
the Old Gods in the Catholic
religion as the pope used
this replacement method for
converting polytheists to
monotheism. Ancient Pagan
Temples, along with libraries
that contained important
spiritual texts, were
destroyed and razed by
Christians. Christian
churches were built often
over these. Many Pagaan
tempales were built on Ley
Lines, especially in Europe.

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2015, 12:55:48 AM »
Assalam  alykam  he also said nimrod and Abrham  did not live in the same time but i thought they did?

he claims Muhammad may peace be upon him always mixed people up

Assalamu alaikum dear brother,

This link deals with such foul claims such as miriam-maryam, haman; pharaoh or xerxes, etc.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/

And as for Abraham and Nimrod- Quran doesn't say that the ruler was Nimrod. I don't know if any Hadith says that or not. This article may help inshaAllah.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBrabbah.html

Peace...
Tahmeed

Offline Isa27James

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2015, 12:09:56 PM »
Assalam alykam bro Tahmeed  do you have a facebook account
 I am on  a christian debate page and i.really need your help


ill add you to it when    i add you on my FB      i get ganged up on there with no muslims supporting

Offline Abu Abdullah

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2015, 12:31:50 PM »
Assalamu alaikum brother isa. I have a facebook account. Tahmeed doesn't have any. He is my closest friend. We can help you together through my account. My email id assassinabd2853@gmail.com

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 01:08:14 PM »
Walaikumus salam wa rahmatullah dear Bro Isa,

And to Abdullah :P ......

Assalamu alaikum brother isa. I have a facebook account. Tahmeed doesn't have any. He is my closest friend. We can help you together through my account. My email id assassinabd2853@gmail.com


I have proven you a liar, mental  :P I do have one and u r already on my friendlist.

Bro Isa, I opened the account for islamic purpose and on ur request so jajakAllahu khair. My email address is sadat3366@gmail.com and my facebook name is Sadat Tahmeed. This is my profile picture.



But I can't garantee u will always get me on FB cuz I'm new there :P Though I'm not really an expert on muslim christian debate I'll InshaAllah try to help you with my knowledge either on FB or AC. I spent most of the time on AC as I'm completely free now :)

And for muslim christian debate, u may take help from these old but brilliant posts by Egyptian.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=27.0;all

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=30.0;all

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=71.0;all

Peace...
Tahmeed
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 04:22:55 PM by Tahmeed »

Offline Uzair Ahmed

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2015, 03:32:30 AM »
By Dr.Zakir Naik, Islamic Research Foundation (IRF) http://irf.net/faq.html

Many critics allege that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) himself was not the author of the qur’an but he learnt it and/or plagiarised (copied or adapted) it from other human sources or from previous scriptures or revelations.

1. Muhummad learnt the qur’an from a roman blacksmith who was a Christian

Some pagans accused the prophet of learning the qur’an from a roman blacksmith, who was a christian staying at the outskirts of makkah. The prophet very often used to go and watch him do his work. A revelation of the qur’an was sufficient to dismiss this charge - the qur’an says in surah an-nahl chapter 16 verse 103:

"we know indeed that they say, ‘it is a man that teaches him,’ the tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear." [Al-Qur’an 16:103]

How could a person whose mother tongue was foreign and could hardly speak little but of poor broken Arabic be the source of the Qur’an which is pure, eloquent, fine Arabic? To believe that the blacksmith taught the prophet the Qur’an is some what similar to believing that a Chinese immigrant to England, who did not know proper English, taught Shakespeare.

2. Muhummad (pbuh) learnt from Waraqa - the relative of khadijah (ra)?


Muhummad’s (pbuh) contacts with the jewish and christian scholars were very limited. The most prominent christian known to him was an old blind man called waraqa ibn-naufal who was a relative of the prophet’s first wife khadijah (r.a.). Although of arab descent, he was a convert to christianity and was very well versed with the new testament. The prophet only met him twice, first when waraqa was worshipping at the kaaba (before the prophetic mission) and he kissed the prophet’s forehead affectionately; the second occasion was when the prophet went to meet waraqa after receiving the first revelation. Waraqa died three years later and the revelation continued for about 23 years. It is ridiculous to assume that waraqa was the source of the contents of the qur’an.

3. Prophet’s religious discussions with the Jews and Christians

It is true that the prophet did have religious discussions with the Jews and Christians but they took place in Madinah more than 13 years after the revelation of the qur’an had started. The allegation that these Jews and Christians were the source is perverse, since in these discussions prophet muhammad (pbuh) was performing the roles of a teacher and of a preacher while inviting them to embrace Islam and pointing out that they had deviated from their true teachings of monotheism. Several of these Jews and Christians later embraced Islam.

4. The prophet learnt the Qur’an from those Jews and Christians that he met outside Arabia

All historical records available show that muhummad (pbuh) had made only three trips outside makkah before his prophethood:

At the age of 9 he accompanied his mother to madinah.

Between the age of 9 and 12, he accompanied his uncle abu-talib on a business trip to syria.

At the age of 25 he led khadija’s caravan to syria.
It is highly imaginary to assume that the qur’an resulted from the occasional chats and meetings with the christians or jews from any of the above three trips.

5. Logical grounds to prove that the prophet did not learn the Qur’an from Jews or Christians

The day-to-day life of the prophet was an open book for all to see. In fact a revelation came asking people to give the prophet (pbuh) privacy in his own home. If the prophet had been meeting people who told him what to say as a revelation from god, this would not have been hidden for very long.

The extremely prominent quraish nobles who followed the prophet and accepted islam were wise and intelligent men who would have easily noticed anything suspicious about the way in which the prophet brought the revelations to them - more so since the prophetic mission lasted 23 years.

The enemies of the prophet kept a close watch on him in order to find proof for their claim that he was a liar - they could not point out even a single instance when the prophet may have had a secret rendezvous with particular jews and christians.

It is inconceivable that any human author of the qur’an would have accepted a situation in which he received no credit whatsoever for originating the qur’an
Thus, historically and logically it cannot be established that there was a human source for the qur’an.

6. Muhummad (pbuh) was an illiterate

The theory that muhummad (pbuh) authored the qur’an or copied from other sources can be disproved by the single historical fact that he was illiterate.

Allah testifies himself in the qur’an in surah al-ankabut chapter no.29 verse 48

"And thou was not (able) to recite a book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted." [Al-Qur’an 29:48]

Allah (swt) knew that many would doubt the authenticity of the qur’an and would ascribe it to prophet muhummad (pbuh). Therefore allah in his divine wisdom chose the last and final messenger to be an ‘ummi’, i.e. Unlettered, so that the talkers of vanity would not then have the slightest justification to doubt the prophet. The accusation of his enemies that he had copied the qur’an from other sources and rehashed it all in a beautiful language might have carried some weight, but even this flimsy pretence has been deprived to the unbeliever and the cynic.

Allah reconfirms in the qur’an in surah al a’raf chapter 7 verse 157:

"those who follow the messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the gospel"

The prophecy of coming of the unlettered prophet (pbuh) is also mentioned in the bible in the book of isaiah chapter 29 verse 12.

"and the book is delivered to him that is not learned." [Isaiah 29:12]


The qur’an testifies in no less than four different places that the prophet (pbuh) was illiterate. It is also mentioned in surah a’raf chapter 7 verse 158 and in surah al-jumu’a chapter 62 verse 2.

7. Arabic version of the bible was not present

The arabic version of the bible was not present at the time of prophet muhummad (pbuh). The earliest arabic version of the old testament is that of r. Saadias gaon of 900 c.e. - more than 250 years after the death of our beloved prophet. The oldest arabic version of the new testament was published by erpenius in 1616 c.e. - about a thousand years after the demise of our prophet.

8. Similarities in the qur’an and the bible due to common source

Similarities between the qur’an and the bible does not necessarily mean that the former has been copied from the latter. In fact it gives evidence that both of them are based on a common third source; all divine revelations came from the same source - the one universal god. No matter what human changes were introduced into some of these judeo-christian and other older religious scriptures that had distorted their originality, there are some areas that have remained free from distortion and thus are common to many religions.

It is true that there are some similar parallels between the qur’an and the bible but this is not sufficient to accuse muhummad (pbuh) of compiling or copying from the bible. The same logic would then also be applicable to teachings of christianity and judaism and thus one could wrongly claim that jesus (pbuh) was not a genuine prophet (god forbid) and that he simply copied from the old testament.

The similarities between the two signify a common source that is one true god and the continuation of the basic message of monotheism and not that the later prophets have plagiarised from the previous prophets.

If someone copies during an examination he will surely not write in the answer sheet that he has copied from his neighbour or mr. Xyz. Prophet muhummad (pbuh) gave due respect and credit to all the previous prophets (pbut). The qur’an also mentions the various revelations given by almighty god to different prophets.

9. Muslims believe in the taurah, zaboor, injeel and qur’an

Four revelations of allah (swt) are mentioned by name in the qur’an: the taurah, the zaboor, the injeel and the qur’an.

Taurah, the revelation i.e. The wahi given to moosa (a. S.) I.e. Moses (pbuh).
Zaboor, the revelation i.e. The wahi given to dawood (a.s.) I.e. David (pbuh).
Injeel, the revelation i.e. The wahi given to isa (a.s.) ie. Jesus (pbuh).
‘al-qur’an’, the last and final wahi i.e. Revelation given to the last and final messenger muhammad (pbuh).

It is an article of faith for every muslim to believe in all the prophets of god and all revelations of god. However, the present day bible has the first five books of the old testament attributed to moses and the psalms attributed to david. Moreover the new testament or the four gospels of the new testament are not the taurah, the zaboor or the injeel, which the qur’an refers to. These books of the present day bible may partly contain the word of god but these books are certainly not the exact, accurate and complete revelations given to the prophets.

The qur’an presents all the different prophets of allah as belonging to one single brotherhood; all had a similar prophetic mission and the same basic message. Because of this, the fundamental teachings of the major faiths cannot be contradictory, even if there has been a considerable passage of time between the different prophetic missions, because the source of these missions was one: almighty god, allah. This is why the qur’an says that the differences which exist between various religions are not the responsibility of the prophets, but of the followers of these prophets who forgot part of what they had been taught, and furthermore, misinterpreted and changed the scriptures. The qur’an cannot therefore be seen as a scripture which competes with the teachings of moses, jesus and the other prophets. On the contrary, it confirms, completes and perfects the messages that they brought to their people.

Another name for the qur’an is the ‘the furqan’ which means the criteria to judge the right from the wrong, and it is on the basis of the qur’an that we can decipher which part of the previous scriptures can be considered to be the word of god.

10. Scientific comparison between qur’an and bible

If you glance through the bible and the qur’an you may find several points which appear to be exactly the same in both of them, but when you analyse them closely, you realise that there is a difference of ‘chalk and cheese’ between them. Only based on historical details it is difficult for someone who is neither conversant with christianity or islam to come to a firm decision as to which of the scriptures is true; however if you verify the relevant passages of both the scriptures against scientific knowledge, you will yourself realize the truth.

Creation of the universe in six days

as per the bible, in the first book of genesis in chapter one, the universe was created in six days and each day is defined as a twenty-four hours period. Even though the qur’an mentions that the universe was created in six ‘ayyaams’, ‘ayyaam’ is the plural of years; this word has two meanings: firstly, it means a standard twenty-four hours period i.e. A day, and secondly, it also means stage, period or epoch which is a very long period of time.

When the qur’an mentions that the universe was created in six ‘ayyaams’, it refers to the creation of the heavens and the earth in six long periods or epochs; scientists have no objection to this statement. The creation of the universe has taken billions of years, which proves false or contradicts the concept of the bible which states that the creation of the universe took six days of twenty-four hour durations each.

Sun created after the day

the bible says in chapter 1, verses 3-5, of genesis that the phenomenon of day and night was created on the first day of creation of the universe by god. The light circulating in the universe is the result of a complex reaction in the stars; these stars were created according to the bible (genesis chapter 1 verse 14 to 19) on the fourth day. It is illogical to mention the result that is the light (the phenomenon of day and night) was created on the first day of creation when the cause or source of the light was created three days later. Moreover the existence of evening and morning as elements of a single day is only conceivable after the creation of the earth and its rotation around the sun. In contrast with the contents of the bible on this issue, the qur’an does not give any unscientific sequence of creation. Hence it is absolutely absurd to say that prophet muhummad (pbuh) copied the passages pertaining to the creation of the universe from the bible but missed out this illogical and fantastic sequence of the bible.

Creation of the sun, the earth and the moon

according to the bible, book of genesis, chapter 1, verses 9 to 13, the earth was created on the third day, and as per verses 14 to 19, the sun and the moon were created on the fourth day. The earth and the moon emanated, as we know, from their original star, the sun. Hence to place the creation of the sun and the moon after the creation of the earth is contrary to the established idea about the formation of the solar system.

Vegetation created on the third day and sun on the fourth day

according to the bible, book of genesis, chapter 1, verses 11-13, vegetation was created on the third day along with seed-bearing grasses, plants and trees; and further on as per verses 14-19, the sun was created on the fourth day. How is it scientifically possible for the vegetation to have appeared without the presence of the sun, as has been stated in the bible?
If prophet muhummad (pbuh) was indeed the author of the qur’an and had copied its contents from the bible, how did he manage to avoid the factual errors that the bible contains? The qur’an does not contain any statements which are incompatible with scientific facts.

The sun and the moon both emit light

according to the bible both the sun and the moon emit their own light. In the book of genesis, chapter 1, verse 16 says, "and god made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night".

Science tells us today that the moon does not have its own light. This confirms the qur’anic concept that the light of the moon is a reflected light. To think that 1400 years ago, prophet muhummad (pbuh) corrected these scientific errors in the bible and then copied such corrected passages in the qur’an is to think of something impossible.

11. Adam (pbuh), the first man on earth, lived 5,800 years ago

As per the genealogy of jesus christ given in the bible, from jesus through abraham (pbuh) to the first man on earth i.e. Adam (pbuh), adam appeared on the earth approximately 5800 years ago:

1948 years between adam (pbuh) and abraham (pbuh)

Approximately 1800 years between abraham (pbuh) and jesus (pbuh)

2000 years from jesus (pbuh) till today
These figures are further confused by the fact that the jewish calendar is currently on or about 5800 years old.

There is sufficient evidence from archaeological and anthropological sources to suggest that the first human being on earth was present tens of thousands of years ago and not merely 5,800 years ago as is suggested by the bible.

The qur’an too speaks about adam (pbuh) as the first man on earth but it does not suggest any date or period of his life on earth, unlike the bible - what the bible says in this regard is totally incompatible with science.

12. Noah (pbuh) and the flood

The biblical description of the flood in genesis chapter 6, 7 and 8 indicates that the deluge was universal and it destroyed every living thing on earth, except those present with noah (pbuh) in the ark. The description suggests that the event took place 1656 years after the creation of adam (pbuh) or 292 years before the birth of abraham, at a time when noah (pbuh) was 600 years old. Thus the flood may have occurred in the 21st or 22nd century b.c.

This story of the flood, as given in the bible, contradicts scientific evidence from archaelogical sources which indicate that the eleventh dynasty in egypt and the third dynasty in babylonia were in existence without any break in civilisation and in a manner totally unaffected by any major calamity which may have occurred in the 21st century b.c. this contradicts the biblical story that the whole world had been immersed in the flood water. In contrast to this, the qur’anic presentation of the story of noah and the flood does not conflict with scientific evidence or archaeological data; firstly, the qur’an does not indicate any specific date or year of the occurance of that event, and secondly, according to the qur’an the flood was not a universal phenomenon which destroyed complete life on earth. In fact the qur’an specifically mentions that the flood was a localised event only involving the people of noah.

It is illogical to assume that prophet muhummad (pbuh) had borrowed the story of the flood from the bible and corrected the mistakes before mentioning it in the qur’an.

13. Moses (pbuh) and pharaoh of the exodus

The story of moses (pbuh) and the pharaoh of the exodus are very much identical in the qur’an and the bible. Both scriptures agree that the pharaoh drowned when he tried to pursue moses (pbuh) and led the israelites across a stretch of water that they crossed. The qur’an gives an additional piece of information in surah yunus chapter 10 verse 92:

"this day shall we save thee in thy body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! But verily, many among mankind are heedless of our signs!" [Al-Qur’an 10:92]

Dr. Maurice bucaille, after a thorough research proved that although rameses ii was known to have persecuted the israelites as per the bible, he actually died while moses (pbuh) was taking refuge in median. Rameses ii’s son merneptah who succeeded him as pharaoh drowned during the exodus. In 1898, the mummified body of merneptah was found in the valley of kings in egypt. In 1975, dr. Maurice bucaille with other doctors received permission to examine the mummy of merneptah, the findings of which proved that merneptah probably died from drowning or a violent shock which immediately preceeded the moment of drowning. Thus the qur’anic verse that we shall save his body as a sign, has been fulfilled by the pharaohs’ body being kept at the royal mummies room in the egyptian museum in cairo.

This verse of the qur’an compelled dr. Maurice bucaille, who was a christian then, to study the qur’an. He later wrote a book ‘the bible, the qur’an and science’, and confessed that the author of the qur’an can be no one else besides god himself. Thus he embraced islam.

14. Qur’an is a book from allah

These evidences are sufficient to conclude that the qur’an was not copied from the bible, but that the qur’an is the furqaan - ‘the criteria’ to judge right from wrong and it should be used to decipher which portion of the bible may be considered as the word of god.

The qur’an itself testifies in surah sajda chapter 32 verse 1 to 3 Alif laam meem.
(this is) the revelation of the book in which there is no doubt – from the lord of the worlds.

Or do they say, ‘he has forged it’? Nay, it is the truth from thy lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance." [Al-Qur’an 32:1-3]
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 03:37:26 AM by Uzair Ahmed »

Offline Tarek Habbal

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2015, 06:31:53 AM »
Hey brothers,

I too am willing to lend a hand.

You can add me on facebook and later show me where the "infidels" are...

I am a great asset when it comes to defending Islam.

Add me brother and ill join the convo and give you support: tarek_habbal@hotmail.com

Salam

Offline Uzair Ahmed

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2015, 06:54:32 AM »
If any one is wishing to add me, then he can, my facebook account is.

https://www.facebook.com/LightningeXM

@TarekHabbal, @Isa27James, @AbuAbdullah, @Tahmeed

This is not my original account but this account is used to debate/Discuss with bigoted and racist Islamophobia on facebook in their groups and pages. Right now i am busy with exams so i don't use it and i don't waste my time discussing with those infidels. But when my exams will end like on Wednesday, i'll use it.

Your Brother.
Uzair Ahmed.

Offline Tarek Habbal

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2015, 07:13:56 AM »
Added brother Uzair,

I see you enjoy football.. I'm a big football fan myself and I support Real Madrid :)

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2015, 07:39:15 AM »
I have sent all of u friend requests.

I think I mistakefully sent u an invitation to join facebook hehehe...:P

Thank you..
Tahmeed

Offline Tarek Habbal

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Re: a christian accused the following
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2015, 08:25:53 AM »
Confirmed brother Tahmeed