Author Topic: Archbishop Voscan Erewanci (1614-1674) put Prophet's Ahmad name in Isaiah 42:10  (Read 42310 times)

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Offline Idris

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Update from Osama Abdallah:

Fearing that brother Idris' invaluable images throughout this thread would eventually get deleted from the websites that he linked them from, I went ahead and backed up this entire thread to the following link:

www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1898.htm

May Allah Almighty bless brother Idris for his invaluable research and work.  Ameen.

End of Update.




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« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 12:06:49 PM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Idris

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Ramadan mubarak to all muslims, best wishes :)

Salamun Aleykum

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Salam Aleykom

Please attention eveyone!
 
I have found very valuable testimony in the form of an extremely rare Bibles from (Amsterdam, 1666 edition) and (Venice: 1733 edition), which probably mentions the name Ahmad in the passage of Isaiah 42:10 ! How I know that ? While reading the book ’’Izharu el'Haqq’’, I came across at intriguing informations. A well known scholar Rahmatu Allah Al-Hindi, qoutes in his book ‘’Truth Revelead’’ Haydar Al-Qurashee, who wrote “that the Armenian priest Auskan translated the Book of Isaiah into the Armenian language in the year 1666, and it was printed in 1733 by Anthony Portolly press. In this translation, in chapter 42 it was written:

Sing to the LORD a new song, the mark of his authority is in his back, and his name is Ahmad”.

Now if you look at the passage of Isaiah 42:10, you will note that it begins exatly in the same way as the citation from above:
 
‘’Sing to the LORD a new song, his praise from the ends of the earth, you who go down to the sea, and all that is in it, you islands, and all who live in them.’’

It wasn’t easy to find such version of armenian Bible (since the exatly name of it's author is Voscan Yerevantsi/Erewanc’i, not Auscan, and publisher of the second edition is Anton Bortoli, not Anthony Portolly) but finaly in Armenian Library under section "rare and ancient books" I have found those two precious early Bibles edition. The first edition was printed by Voscan himself in Amsterdam in the year 1666 and it is said to be based on the earlier armenian version made by Mesrop Mashtots in the fifth century !!! (A. Pisowicz, Książka ormiańska, „Biuletyn Ormiańskiego Towarzystwa Kulturowego’’, 2003, no 32-33, p. 25). So it is a copy of the oldest testimony of the Bible ever written in Armenian language ! It is called a Royal one amongst all Armenian Bibles since, it was faithfuly translated from original sources (Septuagint...and possibly from Hebrew scrolls). Below, the link to the first edition that according to Melikian Colletion Company ‘’includes an alphabetical glossary of hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek words and names occuring in the Bible.’’ (helpful to find faster the name Ahmad ?):

http://greenstone.flib.sci.am/gsdl/collect/armenian/Books/astvacashunch_index.html

http://greenstone.flib.sci.am/gsdl/cgi-bin/library.cgi?e=q-01000-00---off-0armenian-armbook%2carmenian%2chajgirqn%2chaygirq%2cNo_Date_Books%2cazgayinZz-foreign-01-1----0-10-0---0---0direct-10-TX--4-------0-1l--11-en-50---20-about-Bible+1733--00-3-1-00-0--4--0--0-0-11-10-0utfZz-8-00&a=d&c=armenian&srp=2&srn=4&cl=search&d=HASH0173a618d90b9a09088f1b12

The second one is known as Astuacasunc‘ [Bible] printed by Mxit‘ar Sebastac‘i in Venezia: Anton Bortoli press 1733:

http://greenstone.flib.sci.am/gsdl/collect/armenian/Books/astvacashunch1733_index.html

http://greenstone.flib.sci.am/gsdl/cgi-bin/library.cgi?e=q-01000-00---off-0armenian-armbook%2carmenian%2chajgirqn%2chaygirq%2cNo_Date_Books%2cazgayinZz-foreign-01-1----0-10-0---0---0direct-10-TX--4-------0-1l--11-en-50---20-about-Bible+1733--00-3-1-00-0--4--0--0-0-11-10-0utfZz-8-00&a=d&c=armenian&srp=0&srn=2&cl=search&d=HASH01c57c9db50ee36ebc0213d5

One must to look about the title Sefer Yeshayahu (The Book of Isaiah), page 548 ??? <--- not sure !

VERY IMPORTANT !!! It must be verified in armenian language ! Is there any one who know armenian language ? Please, ask your friends, anybody ! ARMENIAN TRANSLATOR NEEDED !!!
Cause if it is true (i.e. if Ahmad indeed exists right there, in one of those Armenian Bibles) I will be able to prove that the name Ahmad was mentioned twice in Isaiah 42 !!! First, in the beginning 42:1 (Here is My servant Ahmad) and further by repeating it again in 42:10 (...and his name is Ahmad) !!! I’ve already made a detailed research on this subject but one must to confirm that. Below, some of my research:

The Apostolic Bible Polyglot (Charles Van der Pool) is a Greek-English Interlinear of the Greek Septuagint and New Testament coded to Strong’s numbers. The Apostolic Bible Polyglot in this case is quite interesting by rendering the passage as follows:

"Sing to the LORD a new hymn! Glorify his name from the uttermost part of the earth! O ones going down into the sea, and sailing it; the islands, and the ones dwelling in them."

NOTE: the greek word ὕμνος (humnos) analogically to ὑμνέω (humneo) means sing an hymn (praise unto = ar. tahmid = tasbih = nashid)! The phrase 'glorify his name' in other words is to 'praise his name' and in arabic literally goes like this: 'ahmad'u ismuh'u' (from hamd and ism). Similarly when we say e.g "(inni) ahmad'u Allah'a" i.e. "I praise or glorify Allah" = singular form. In plural we pronounced also as "(nahnu) n'ahmad'u Allah'a" but from the context of the passage it is clear that not 'we' but rather it is formulated in the sense of "O you, glorify the name of the Lord" meaning that someone is telling us here to "glorify his name", thus even in plural in arabic it reads verbally (in this case) as "(antum) ahmad'u Allah'a"! Now, when we change the order of the words 'ahmad'u ismuh'u', instead of "glorify his name", we will obtain "his name is glorious" i.e. in arabic 'ismuh'u ahmad' (i.e. his name is Ahmad) identically to that which was revealed in the Quran, sura 61:6! It is obvious that Jesus (Pbuh) qouted his name from the Old Testament, since Allah Almighty taught him about the wisdom of the Torah and the Gospel !!! Subhannallah, isn't amazing the arabic name Ahmad ?

Besides, the term καινός kainos (new) used in the LXX (Septuagint), sounds very similar to αἶνος ainos (praise). Did the copyist wrongly transcribed the words by confusing each other? (it is only my hypothesis but through my next analysis I came to the conclusion that it's not necessarily). Anyway, I can not figured out this puzzle yet. I don’t know what’s going on but something is wrong with this passage...and I think it is not a coincidence ! Notice that Spetuagint - on which is based The Apostolic Bible Polyglot - after the phrase Sing to the Lord a new song mention his name (ὄνομα), not his praise.
 
Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance Lexicon of the Bible:

G3686 - onoma (ὄνομα): From a presumed derivative of the base of G1097 (compare G3685); a “name” (literally or figuratively), (authority, character): - called, (+ sur-) name (-d).

It would make sense when you clothes the passage by taking and putting both words i.e. accepting praise (arabic root h-m-d) as Ahmad and his name (gr. onoma) as well as his authority and then as his name, and it explain why the archbishop Voscan translate the passage in such way in his 1666 armenian edition of the Bible. Well, you won't believe, but the strong proof is came from the previous word - before  - translated as Glorify actually means glorious !!! See for yourself:

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Lexicon of the Bible:

G1392 - doxazō (δοξάζω): From G1391; to render (or esteem) glorious (in a wide application): - (make) glorify (-ious), full of (have) glory, honour, magnify.

SUBHANAALLAH ! THIS GREEK WORD δοξάζω REALLY MEANS AHMAD (i.e. gloriuos = praiseworthy) !!!!! <--- the same meaning ! Also if we suppose that the word uttermost is connected with: high = highly then it will be the most praised one or the highly praised one = AhmadThe translators of course have translate the meaning of this word, when in reality it is a proper name (ar. أحمد = the most praised one) ! The words "the mark of his authority is in his back" it is the well known mark or seal of the Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) which according to many hadith was in his back (i.e. between his shoulders!). It seems that the text had been manipulated (the christian editors of various dictionaries and lexicons doesn't want to see his name in their books?) and archbishop Voscan knew the true, secret meaning of Isaiah 42:10 ! It shouldn't be suprising, since according to some sources, the true meanings of many hebrew words are lost, and very few persons have knowledge (like Voscan Erewanci).

I hope that some person who is influence in Armenian will soon confirm and reinforce the evidence of the issue from the Armenian Bibles linked above. And realize my brothers that when we will prove explicitly his name in the Bible, it mean that all their charges against Islam and the Quran are automatically wrong and must be canceled (of course even without it they are a liars!). Logical way of thinking !

Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother Idris,

Ramadan Mubarak to you and to your family.  May Allah Almighty make this blessed month be a blessed one for you and your family.  Ameen.

Thank you for the valuable post, dear brother.  Very nice research, dear brother.  Keep up the great work!  May Allah Almighty bless you.  Ameen.

I will Insha'Allah add your material to the website.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Idris

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Offline Sam663

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Salam Aleykom,

OK, and now seriously: there is no single person who can help to read the text in Armenian language? I mean of course those two Armenian edition of the Bible? I don't get it...do you even realize that we have a unique chance to show the name Ahmad explicitely written in christian Bible to this day? No muslim scholar was able to prove it from such sources! I know the number page where is located the passage of Isaiah 42:10 in those Armenian Bibles (which I linked above in my post). In the edition from the year 1733 it can be found in the page 751 (right side of the page) and in the edition from the year 1666 it can be found in the page 861. All I need is to get a confimation that the text read as: "Sing to the Lord a new song, the mark of his authority is in his back, and his name is Ahmad" !!! It can be download as PDF and one must to take a photoshot of that text fragment (in Adobe Reader) and then published. So please ask your friends to help us! URGENT MATTER!

Make a separate thread here and ask if anyone speaks Armenian:

http://www.islamicboard.com/
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 11:36:17 AM by Sam663 »

Offline Sam663

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Or just ask if there is anyone who lives in Turkey.

Offline Idris

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Salam Aleykom,

OK, and now seriously: there is no single person who can help to read the text in Armenian language? I mean of course those two Armenian edition of the Bible? I don't get it...do you even realize that we have a unique chance to show the name Ahmad explicitely written in christian Bible to this day? No muslim scholar was able to prove it from such sources! I know the number page where is located the passage of Isaiah 42:10 in those Armenian Bibles (which I linked above in my post). In the edition from the year 1733 it can be found in the page 751 (right side of the page) and in the edition from the year 1666 it can be found in the page 861. All I need is to get a confimation that the text read as: "Sing to the Lord a new song, the mark of his authority is in his back, and his name is Ahmad" !!! It can be download as PDF and one must to take a photoshot of that text fragment (in Adobe Reader) and then published. So please ask your friends to help us! URGENT MATTER!

Make a separate thread here and ask if anyone speaks Armenian:

http://www.islamicboard.com/

Thank you Sam663

Offline Sam663

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Thank you Sam663

I have already made the thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134326287-urgent-help-translating-armenian-text.html

فرحان (Administrator)
I'll contact some brothers and let you know if they know anyone .




Offline Idris

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« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 02:52:57 PM by Idris »

Offline Sam663

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Offline Tahmeed

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Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

I believe it can not be a coincidence, since Kab al'Ahbar (a learned Jewish Rabbi) said in one of narrations that he find in the Torah: "My servant Ahmad, Chosen one…" and this clearly refers to Isaiah 42:1 !!!

Can you pls give me the reference akhi? It's very important. I need that in FB!!!

Tahmeed

Offline Idris

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A very good suggestion.

http://www.irf.net/contactus.html
islam@irf.net

http://www.assimalhakeem.net/ask-a-question/

http://www.institutealislam.com/dr-jamal-badawi/
Your could submit any questions or inquiries at iif@geocities.com or contact Dr. Jamal Badawi personally at Jamal.Badawi@StMarys.ca

Thank you brother one more time. I will ask them insha'Allah ! May Allah bless you for your help.

Offline Idris

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« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 02:53:36 PM by Idris »