Author Topic: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses  (Read 7274 times)

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Offline Muslimkid

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Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« on: August 09, 2015, 11:32:24 PM »
Assalamu alaikum!

I have been reading up on some of the Quranic mathematical miracle.
Now while online, i found this contention that the numbering of verses in the Quran was not something establiahed during the time of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh), and it came later with disputes which made some say the numbers of verses were 6200 instead of 6326 (pretty aure this is it haha) and so the supposwd miracle of the number of chapter and verses being divisblw by 19 and sucj is invalid.
(i believe wikiislam is the originator of this, although i found the exact same thing on a blog post).
Now i may present the argument wrong or poorly
I can link the article or paste it if the need arises or someone asks, but for now could someone take a look haha.

Offline Muslimkid

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2015, 11:34:47 PM »
Wish i could find out where the edit button is, since all the mistakes i make on a cellphone are annoying haha

Offline Muslimkid

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2015, 06:07:34 AM »
I do believe i have not posed the question right, so here's the website explaining it: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Odd-Even_Mathematical_Miracle

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2015, 04:44:36 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

What is this ludicrous link?  All the doomed-to-Hell infidels did was dance around the Divine Miracle.  There are HUNDREDS of Numerical Miracles and other Miracles in the Glorious Quran.  Visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

I hope this helps, Insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Muslimkid

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2015, 07:21:23 PM »
Assalamu alaikum Brother!

I am inclined to believe that the Quran does indeed have a numeric system inside it!
But this relies on the number of verses and each verse having a certain number of words, no?
Then what do you make of their claim that the only reason the Quran has for example 6326 verses is because it became the most popular one?

Thank you for answering, once again :D

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2015, 07:15:15 AM »
This is why you need to take a look at other miracles too, brothers, as I said before. Read this post

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=1578.msg6831#msg6831

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=1578.msg6849#msg6849

It is also about certain number of letters in certain nubmer of verses. But I hope the wiki infidels won't be stupid enough to claim that Quran was re written after the landing on the moon and measuring earth-moon distance. Bloody idiots >:(

This is also a bit of prophesy about moon landing. I have no idea how that can be forged by men.

Also, miracles like sura Nuh's having 950 letters (Noah lived 950 years) can't be made up by men, not by wiki idiots themselves. Why don't they write a sura like this containing propesies and miracles. They naver can, that is the challenge of Allah!

Subhanallah! And damned be wiki-islam >:(

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2015, 07:18:21 AM »
Read all the posts in the thread.... and tell wiki-asses to explain them.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2015, 09:42:29 AM »
Assalamu alaikum Brother!

I am inclined to believe that the Quran does indeed have a numeric system inside it!
But this relies on the number of verses and each verse having a certain number of words, no?
Then what do you make of their claim that the only reason the Quran has for example 6326 verses is because it became the most popular one?

Thank you for answering, once again :D

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

The ordering of the Surahs (Chapters), and Naming of the Surahs, and ordering of the Ayat (Noble Verses), and the writing of the Text of the Glorious Quran including the Vowels on the Noble Words was all done by Angel Gabriel and Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon them.  It is also quite probable that Caliph Ali was with them.

The determination of when a Noble Verse starts and Ends had been determined from the time of Its Revelation.  The doomed-to-Hell infidels have nothing but noise against the Glorious Quran.  Allah Almighty Declared that He Himself will take care of the Revelation, Writing, Compilation and Recitation of the Glorious Quran.  Please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/textual.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran.htm

Please don't hesitate to share all of your concerns and questions here.  The doomed-to-Hell infidels' lies hold no water.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah


Offline Sh Truthseaker

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2015, 10:00:55 AM »
Assalamu Alaikum Brothers,
Doesn't the Holy Qur'an itself call Surath Al Fathiha "The Repeated Seven(verses)"  -  "Sab'ul Masani"?

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2015, 08:43:18 AM »
Sorry, I didn't get ur point akhi :(

Offline Sh Truthseaker

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2015, 02:58:33 PM »
I mean that system of numbering of verses where present at the time The Holy Qur'an was revealed!

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2015, 04:24:35 AM »
Oh yeah!! Brillant akhi! I didn't notice the point  :P

Offline Sh Truthseaker

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2017, 05:24:14 AM »
AsSalamu 'Alaykum

I think I was wrong:
I mean that system of numbering of verses where present at the time The Holy Qur'an was revealed!

This book,titled "An Introduction to Sciences of the Quran" gives us a lot of information about the problem:

https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Introduction-to-Sciences-of-the-Quran.pdf

Quote from: Page 154



Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: Hello again! Question on Quranic verses
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2017, 07:13:31 PM »
I remember Shabir Ally also mentioning this in one of his lectures on the numerical relationships in the Qur'an. He said something of the sort that the "even/odd" relationship got established in a natural way, that the total number of verses wasn't already accepted and the 6,236 number was the one Muslims generally accepted by the 20th century. I always assumed that he was talking about only the difference of opinion on the matter of whether Bismillah... (at the beginning of almost all Surahs) should be counted in the total number of verses or not. The above citation shows that there was more to it.

I find it odd that there is resistance to accept this idea. Shabir Ally considered this as a strength of the "even/odd" relationship; an additional evidence for the uniqueness of this phenomenon. The most valid/popular criticism of the "even/odd" relationship has been that this was designed by whoever the human author of the Qur'an was  (i.e. Prophet Muhammad). Unlike other relationships like the "golden ratio" one, a human could easily have designed and structured the Qur'an to conform to this "even/odd" relationship. All that human would've needed to know was addition.

However, the idea that the Qur'an didn't have a universally accepted number of verses, provides evidence that no human knew about this "even/odd" relationship prior to its discovery in the 20th century.

If Prophet Muhammad had himself painstakingly worked to create the "even/odd" relationship, even if we were to accept that for some reason he chose not to disclose it and therefore risk wasting all his hard-work; it becomes quite difficult to accept that he would further choose to not even, at the very least, disclose the total number of verses either.

At this point the critics' claim devolves to as follows, Prophet Muhammad himself designed the structure of the Qur'an in order to conform to these mathematical "miracles" and then, apparently, he did pretty much everything to make sure that no one found about it.