Author Topic: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an  (Read 56708 times)

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Offline Tarek Habbal

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2016, 07:05:30 am »
Kindly refrain from calling me brother

I do not befriend Hasbara shills

Yes m8, we know... I dealt with filth like you my entire life.

If it was someone genuine, i'd be more than happy to oblige.. but not Zionists with agenda who actually call the Quran fake while at the same time fostering the LOL evolution theory

You failed to answer me... how many times have you beloved New Satanic World Order buffoons been caught faking evidence?

Shall i list them for you?


You are a special kind of obtuse Hasbara aren't you?

The Quran is not a Science Book... YET it contains scientific facts in it

The Quran was not meant to address people as if they were astronauts or geologists... rather it speaks in layman terms so it is available for anyone to understand


So far i'd love to see you denuking one miracle in thee Quran ONE... What happened to Dr. Moore? seems you skipped that video

im gonna ask you again... WHAT DO NASA LOOK FOR IN SPACE AS A SIGN OF LIFE? You will avoid that question as well..

The Leech stage has been demonstrated to you, IN PICTURES... you pretend not to see it...


Man is made of earth.. clay, soil... What's the soil made of?

Most soil is mostly comprised of Oxygen, Potassium, Aluminium, Sodium, Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, Phosphorus, Carbon with a small percentage (e.g. 1-8%) of organic compunds of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Sulphur. A few soils have very high organic content (e.g. peaty soils) which will be mostly dead organic material, but also includes a very important living component: the tiny plants and animals in the soil.



Ooops i see lots of common elements between the soil and the human body.

Just accept the debunk and how we exposed you and move with dignity.. i doubt you got any.

Not many shekels for you today, Hasbara

Shalom.. right? :)

Offline StardustyPsyche

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2016, 07:10:26 am »
Brother Dawud,
I have conclusively demonstrated that the so-called miracle as described by brother Osama can be easily constructed by a human being.

This is what Osama says is a miracle:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm
The Glorious Quran has 114 Chapters. The sum of those Chapters is 6555 (1+2+...+114 = 6555). There are also 6236 Noble Verses in the Glorious Quran. Now, IF YOU ADD EACH CHAPTER # with the number of its Verses, then you get a list of numbers. So 1 (first Chapter) + 7 (# of its Verses) = 8. Do this for all Chapters.
1-  The sum of the odd numbers from the list = 6555.
2-  The sum of the even numbers from the list = 6236.
I quickly and easily reproduced that “miracle”, conclusively discounting Osama’s assertion.

Now, brother Dawud, you seek to add additional constraints to this mere trick of numerological construction.  In American parlance we call that “moving the goalposts”.


Offline StardustyPsyche

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2016, 07:37:07 am »
Mr. Habal,
I see clearly that you are prone to make assumptions when you do not have evidence.

Actually, the books of Moses contain even more instructions to wretched actions than the Qur'an.  Unfortunately for the indigenous people of what we now call Palestine or Israel those instructions were genocide against them.  Fortunately for the rest of the world, the explicit incitement to murder made by Moses was limited to that relatively small geographical area.

Your post is little more than a disjointed rant, filled with anger and accusations based on assumptions for which you have no evidence beyond what you can "smell" through your computer.

The "miracle" I have thoroughly debunked is that life is made from water.

You wish to bring up that the Qur'an also says that man was made from mud.  That is also scientifically false.  Science tells us that human beings evolved from lower primates, not mud.

You seek to discount the fact and theory of evolution by citing a tiny percentage of individuals in the field who have in fact used fraud to further their own agenda, likely fame and wealth.  That is one of the great things about science.  It is other scientists who expose false claims through the scientific method.

Indeed, the Qur'an is not a science book and there are no scientific miracles in it.  There are a number of very crude and obvious observations in it that are so apparent to any careful observer that they have some alignment with reality if interpreted in the broadest sense, which in no way qualifies such statements as miracles.

Peace Mr. Habal

Offline Tarek Habbal

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2016, 07:57:04 am »
Again posting an opinion and not facts

We don't do opinions here.. so far you failed to even disprove one miracle in the Quran.. just making yourown observation

Tell me something Hasbara.. did Sam Shamoun send you here?

Ali Sina, perhaps?

Sitting at my desk here, i can still smell that distinct Hasbara stench.

And no there was NEVER one single shred of evidence to support the claim that humans evolved from primates.

Only hoaxes like the ones mentioned above. Lucifer.. i mean Lucy was just another hoax..

Now with the Nano technology available.. im sure the hoaxes will get even more intricate.. don't you think?

I still shall not fall for them


Out of curiosity... who was behind 9/11?

Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2016, 07:57:47 am »
Brother Dawud,
No, there is no leech stage to human development.

"what is this then?" you ask.
Answer, a human embryo.

Yes, I realize that at that point in development there is a very crude resemblance between a leech and a human embryo.

This resembles a leech
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5Oh_aR1WQ9Q/U9E5p18kanI/AAAAAAAASOw/6gLuAevyh20/s1600/image_2+-+WM.jpeg

This also resembles a leech
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/bethanyd.jpg

It is a simple observational fact that human beings resemble leeches in their early development. 

All that is needed to observe this fact is a miscarriage.

Miscarriages were, unfortunately, common.

There is no scientific miracle in describing the products of a miscarriage as a leech, or a clot, or a chewed thing.  Those are just crude descriptions of the obvious.

Peace Bro

Quote
No, there is no leech stage to human development.

but i provided you a clear micrscopic photo of embryo looking like a leech, are you blind or obviously denying the true???

Quote
This resembles a leech
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5Oh_aR1WQ9Q/U9E5p18kanI/AAAAAAAASOw/6gLuAevyh20/s1600/image_2+-+WM.jpeg

This also resembles a leech
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/bethanyd.jpg

no it does not look like a leech



this is seen in microscope, it cant bee seen with naked eye
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:47:14 pm by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2016, 08:01:44 am »
Brother Dawud,
I have conclusively demonstrated that the so-called miracle as described by brother Osama can be easily constructed by a human being.

This is what Osama says is a miracle:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm
The Glorious Quran has 114 Chapters. The sum of those Chapters is 6555 (1+2+...+114 = 6555). There are also 6236 Noble Verses in the Glorious Quran. Now, IF YOU ADD EACH CHAPTER # with the number of its Verses, then you get a list of numbers. So 1 (first Chapter) + 7 (# of its Verses) = 8. Do this for all Chapters.
1-  The sum of the odd numbers from the list = 6555.
2-  The sum of the even numbers from the list = 6236.
I quickly and easily reproduced that “miracle”, conclusively discounting Osama’s assertion.

Now, brother Dawud, you seek to add additional constraints to this mere trick of numerological construction.  In American parlance we call that “moving the goalposts”.

Osama told you only one part, i told you two more part wich are connected with that chapter verse programming, and that is golden ratio and symtery

if you Think it is easy to do, let make an experiment, use 10 first chapter, and use what ever verse number to specific chapter as you wish, and make it so that

sum of chapters, = sum of odd
sum of verses, = sum of evens

just do it with 10 chapters if you can


Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2016, 08:14:08 am »
Mr. Habal,
I see clearly that you are prone to make assumptions when you do not have evidence.

Actually, the books of Moses contain even more instructions to wretched actions than the Qur'an.  Unfortunately for the indigenous people of what we now call Palestine or Israel those instructions were genocide against them.  Fortunately for the rest of the world, the explicit incitement to murder made by Moses was limited to that relatively small geographical area.

Your post is little more than a disjointed rant, filled with anger and accusations based on assumptions for which you have no evidence beyond what you can "smell" through your computer.

The "miracle" I have thoroughly debunked is that life is made from water.

You wish to bring up that the Qur'an also says that man was made from mud.  That is also scientifically false.  Science tells us that human beings evolved from lower primates, not mud.

You seek to discount the fact and theory of evolution by citing a tiny percentage of individuals in the field who have in fact used fraud to further their own agenda, likely fame and wealth.  That is one of the great things about science.  It is other scientists who expose false claims through the scientific method.

Indeed, the Qur'an is not a science book and there are no scientific miracles in it.  There are a number of very crude and obvious observations in it that are so apparent to any careful observer that they have some alignment with reality if interpreted in the broadest sense, which in no way qualifies such statements as miracles.

Peace Mr. Habal


Quote
Science tells us that human beings evolved from lower primates, not mud.

no it does not, science is empirical , wich means what you see and test that is science, you cant test and do experiment for million of years to prove evolution, so it stay just a theory

and by the way, if you Think we evolved from primates, tell me how could Kinesin molecular Robots inside your cells evolve, they have 2 arms, two legs and they haul Heavy cargo to destination, they are equiped with GPS system re-route so they can find new paths to the destination if the path is damaged. They save energy by switching to sleep mode, and they can help eachother hauling cargo if it is too Heavy, several robot join to haul the cargo.



or tell us how did bacterill motor evolved from what??? having 40 different Components, like rotor, stator, clutch, gear, propeller, and use fructose as fuel?


tell us how could MO-1 bacteria evolve wich have 7 motors in one and use magnet to navigate.



« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:51:48 pm by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2016, 08:53:14 am »
Brother Dawud,
I have conclusively demonstrated that the so-called miracle as described by brother Osama can be easily constructed by a human being.

This is what Osama says is a miracle:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm
The Glorious Quran has 114 Chapters. The sum of those Chapters is 6555 (1+2+...+114 = 6555). There are also 6236 Noble Verses in the Glorious Quran. Now, IF YOU ADD EACH CHAPTER # with the number of its Verses, then you get a list of numbers. So 1 (first Chapter) + 7 (# of its Verses) = 8. Do this for all Chapters.
1-  The sum of the odd numbers from the list = 6555.
2-  The sum of the even numbers from the list = 6236.
I quickly and easily reproduced that “miracle”, conclusively discounting Osama’s assertion.

Now, brother Dawud, you seek to add additional constraints to this mere trick of numerological construction.  In American parlance we call that “moving the goalposts”.

I am sorry Osama but i have to put this photo to show him how deluded he is


now tell me

who could know that these Waves existed Deep in the ocean, it clearly says in darkness in Deep sea there are Waves

and finally scientists find it these Waves 3 miles beneath the Surface, who could know in 7th Century when quran was revealed that there are such Waves in Deep sea when you can see a hand in front of your face?



« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:54:09 pm by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Tarek Habbal

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2016, 08:56:19 am »
But... But

Brother Dawud!!!

What are you talking about??

Sayyidna Muhammad PBUH was a scuba diver... no not really.. he had a submarine lol


Akhi... don't waste your time.. this guy has an agenda... a NWO one. Maybe Sam Shamoun or some other Zionist sent him here

Let him drown akhi... let him drown. It is his choice

After all brother, Hell-fire needs fuel... that is why such people exist

Assalam brother Dawud

Offline StardustyPsyche

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2016, 09:10:10 am »
Brother Dawud,
You have given me an very easy task.

"If you Think it is easy to do, let make an experiment, use 10 first chapter, and use what ever verse number to specific chapter as you wish, and make it so that

sum of chapters, = sum of odd
sum of verses, = sum of evens

just do it with 10 chapters if you can"

Ch   Vs   Ev   Odd
1   23   24   
2   36   38   
3   47   50   
4   23      27
5   27   32   
6   62   68   
7    2       9
8   66   74   
9   10      19
10    2   12   
         
Sum   Sum   Sum   Sum
55   298   298   55

There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an.  All asserted numerological "miracles" are the result of
1. Intentional human construction
2. Chance
3. Reverse association of numerical relationships by cherry picking

As'salamu Alaikum brother Dawud


Offline Tarek Habbal

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2016, 09:21:10 am »
You can keep barking

While we revel in the Quran's overwhelming miracles.

I pity the few minutes I spent replying to you.. but maybe my replies will benefit another Muslim or non Muslim inshallah

Enjoy your evolution hoax theory... and the new world order. it is made for people like you

Enjoy it while it lasts... life is fast fleeting.


You can now go collect your shekels...

Assalamu 3al.... Ooops

I meant to say: Shalom Hasbara :)

Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2016, 09:33:31 am »
Brother Dawud,
You have given me an very easy task.

"If you Think it is easy to do, let make an experiment, use 10 first chapter, and use what ever verse number to specific chapter as you wish, and make it so that

sum of chapters, = sum of odd
sum of verses, = sum of evens

just do it with 10 chapters if you can"

Ch   Vs   Ev   Odd
1   23   24   
2   36   38   
3   47   50   
4   23      27
5   27   32   
6   62   68   
7    2       9
8   66   74   
9   10      19
10    2   12   
         
Sum   Sum   Sum   Sum
55   298   298   55

There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an.  All asserted numerological "miracles" are the result of
1. Intentional human construction
2. Chance
3. Reverse association of numerical relationships by cherry picking

As'salamu Alaikum brother Dawud
you have succeded with first task

now program golden ratio into that number and make the chapter and verse numbers symetrical like it is in quran

what you deed is not enough if you want to match quranic programming.

Offline StardustyPsyche

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2016, 10:58:32 pm »
Brother Dawud,
So you and I agree that brother Osama’s assertion that
sum of chapters, = sum of odd
sum of verses, = sum of evens
constitutes a miracle is false.

We agree that it is trivial for a human being to construct such an arrangement, which disqualifies Osama’s published rationale for a “scientific miracle”.

Now, you have added 2 criteria that you claim make this arrangement a true miracle
1.   That the number of even sums equals the odd sums
2.   That the ratio as described above is the golden ratio, which is necessarily a miracle.

Sorry, brother Dawud, you are as mistaken as Osama in your assertion of the necessity of a miracle to explain these items.

First, getting the even sums to match the odd sums is trivial.  There is no upper bound on the number of such solutions.  I could list them for you as fast as I can write.  But I will give you just one

Ch      Vs      Ev      Odd
1      23      24      
2      7             9
3      47      50      
4      7             11
5      27      32      
6      5             11
7      2             9
8      66      74      
9      6             15
10      2      12      
                     
Sum      Sum      Sum      Sum
55      192      192      55


As for your second assertion it is false on several counts.

First, you have falsely stated the golden ratio.  The golden ratio does not equal 7905/4885.  The golden ratio equals  (1 + sqrt(5))/2.
1.6182190378710337768… = 7905/4885
1.6180339887498948482...  = (1 + sqrt(5))/2
Surly the all knowing creator of the universe who knows every subatomic detail of the entire universe would know these numbers are not equal!

Your assertion is also false because it is easily explained by reverse cherry picking.  If the ratio had turned out to be
2.718
you may as well have said “ah ha!!!  The base of natural logarithms!!!”
And why 7905/4885?  Why not 4885/7905?  Your choice is arbitrary and merely a reverse engineered cherry picking.
There are endless ratios and numbers in nature and mathematics.  There are endless ways to count chapters and verses and letters in the Qur’an.  Eventually you can find a match to 3 decimal places.  No miracle needed.

Sorry brothers Dawud and Osama, your arguments for the necessity of a miracle in this case are nonsense, and the demonstration of their falsehood is trivial.

Peace to you both


Offline Tarek Habbal

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2016, 01:09:22 am »
Shalom Hasbara

I can feel the butthurt starting to come into light   ;D

Take a chill pill and try and remain calm... If it still hurts apply cream to sore area :)


Anyhow... I shall make a thread about this, but first let me post this one here..

"I want to ask how atheists explain how an illiterate man  produced the inimitable Quran which contains abundance of scientific and historic facts that were unknown at that time.  It corrects scientific and historical mistakes in the Bible too.  For instance, at the time of Joseph,  the leaders of Egypt were called Kings (not pharoahs)  but at the time of Moses they were called Pharoah.  The Quran has an entire chapter that relates the story of Joseph and it never refers to the king of Egypt as Pharoah (unlike the bible). When Moses is mentioned in the Bible the ruler of Egypt is called Pharoah and not king. 

And the Sunnah as well,  which is also revelation from Almighty God:




It is one of the common laugh at hadith by critics and Islam haters, however as we will show below the subject is not be laughed at but rather cried at, because it is another clear proof that Islam is the truth and that Muhammad was a messenger of God as he would not be able to know such information without revelation from God.

The Hadeeth on the Fly

One Wing Carrying Disease and the  Other Carrying the Cure

***

Student Research Seminar Team 
Course Med 497


Team Supervised By 
Dr. Jamaal Haamid

Students:

1-Sami Ibrahim Aj-Taili
2-'Aadil 'Abdur Rahman Al-Misnid
3-Khalid Dha'aar Al-'Utaibi.

Dept. Medical Microbiology
College of Science
Qassim University

Course Co-Coordinator
Dr. Saleh As-Saleh (rahimahullaah)


In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful

Allah, the Most Might and Most Majestic, sent the Prophet Muhammad
(sallallaahu 'aleihi was-sallam: may Allah Exalt his mention, and render him
safe from all derogatory things), with guidance and the truth and said about him:


Nor does he (Muhammad sallallaahu 'aleihi was-sallam) speak of (his own)
desire. It is only a Revelation revealed [Translation of the meaning of the Qur'an;
Ch. 53, verses 3 & 4).
 
And from this, is the Prophet (sallallaahu 'aleihi was-sallam) saying:

"If a housefly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the
drink), for the one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure of
the disease." [Bukhari, vol. 4: 537].




Panel A   

Plate 2- Cultured water sample taken from a flask containing sterilized water and
where a fly fell (without submersion). Growth of pathogenic (disease causing)
bacterial colonies of the E Coli type were identified after taking samples from the
water in the flask for culture.   

Plate 1- Cultured water sample from the same flask following the complete dipping
of the fly. An entire disappearance of the bacterial growth seen in Petri-dish 2 is
clear. The new bacteria growing in plate 1 was identified as Actinomyces, the one
from which useful antibiotics can be extracted. This explains the complete
inhibition of growth in plate 2



Panel B

Same as in Panel A,  but from another fly.

Plate 2- Cultured water sample taken from a flask containing sterilized water and
where a fly fell (without submersion). Growth of pathogenic (disease causing)
bacterial colonies of the Coynebacterium Dephtheroid type were identified after
taking samples from the water in the flask for culture.   

Plate 1- Cultured water sample from the same flask following the complete dipping
of the fly. An entire disappearance of the bacterial growth seen in Petri-dish 2 is
clear. The new bacteria growing in plate 1 was identified as Actinomyces, the one
from which useful antibiotics (more than 70%) can be extracted. This explains the
complete inhibition of growth in plate 2





                                                                     
Panel C

Panel C: Same as before, yet with another fly.


Plate 2- Cultured water sample taken from a flask containing sterilized water and
where a fly fell (without submersion). Growth of pathogenic (disease causing)
bacterial colonies of the  Staphylococcus sp. type. were identified after taking
samples from the water in the flask for culture.   

Plate 1- Cultured water sample from the same flask following the complete dipping
of the fly. An entire disappearance of the bacterial growth seen in Petri-dish 2 is
clear. The new bacteria growing in plate 1 was identified as Actinomyces, the one
from which useful antibiotics can be extracted. This explains the complete
inhibition of growth in plate 2

The Same results were obtained with another type of disease-causing bacteria of the Salmonellas sp + proteus sp. Type.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:58:32 pm by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2016, 02:47:50 am »
Brother Dawud,
So you and I agree that brother Osama’s assertion that
sum of chapters, = sum of odd
sum of verses, = sum of evens
constitutes a miracle is false.

We agree that it is trivial for a human being to construct such an arrangement, which disqualifies Osama’s published rationale for a “scientific miracle”.

Now, you have added 2 criteria that you claim make this arrangement a true miracle
1.   That the number of even sums equals the odd sums
2.   That the ratio as described above is the golden ratio, which is necessarily a miracle.

Sorry, brother Dawud, you are as mistaken as Osama in your assertion of the necessity of a miracle to explain these items.

First, getting the even sums to match the odd sums is trivial.  There is no upper bound on the number of such solutions.  I could list them for you as fast as I can write.  But I will give you just one

Ch      Vs      Ev      Odd
1      23      24      
2      7             9
3      47      50      
4      7             11
5      27      32      
6      5             11
7      2             9
8      66      74      
9      6             15
10      2      12      
                     
Sum      Sum      Sum      Sum
55      192      192      55


As for your second assertion it is false on several counts.

First, you have falsely stated the golden ratio.  The golden ratio does not equal 7905/4885.  The golden ratio equals  (1 + sqrt(5))/2.
1.6182190378710337768… = 7905/4885
1.6180339887498948482...  = (1 + sqrt(5))/2
Surly the all knowing creator of the universe who knows every subatomic detail of the entire universe would know these numbers are not equal!

Your assertion is also false because it is easily explained by reverse cherry picking.  If the ratio had turned out to be
2.718
you may as well have said “ah ha!!!  The base of natural logarithms!!!”
And why 7905/4885?  Why not 4885/7905?  Your choice is arbitrary and merely a reverse engineered cherry picking.
There are endless ratios and numbers in nature and mathematics.  There are endless ways to count chapters and verses and letters in the Qur’an.  Eventually you can find a match to 3 decimal places.  No miracle needed.

Sorry brothers Dawud and Osama, your arguments for the necessity of a miracle in this case are nonsense, and the demonstration of their falsehood is trivial.

Peace to you both

Quote
Brother Dawud,
So you and I agree that brother Osama’s assertion that
sum of chapters, = sum of odd
sum of verses, = sum of evens
constitutes a miracle is false

no only that, but you have to incorporate golden ratio and simetry in that

let say that we have only this
sum of chapters, = sum of odd
sum of verses, = sum of evens

then this is also a miracle if you look at it from Another perspective, muhammed was illitarate could not read nor write, tell me how could he program it like this and wich makes it even worse for you is that verses were not numbered until last decade

when it comes from illitarate person then it is miraclous, but beacuse it is not ony
sum of chapters, = sum of odd
sum of verses, = sum of evens

there are also golden ratio and simetry involved.



Quote
First, you have falsely stated the golden ratio.  The golden ratio does not equal 7905/4885.  The golden ratio equals  (1 + sqrt(5))/2.
1.6182190378710337768… = 7905/4885
1.6180339887498948482...  = (1 + sqrt(5))/2
Surly the all knowing creator of the universe who knows every subatomic detail of the entire universe would know these numbers are not equal!

golden ratio is allways take as 3 decimals beacuse it is irrational number of never ending decimals, so you take only 3 decimals


http://www.livescience.com/37704-phi-golden-ratio.html
As with pi (the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter), the digits go on and on, theoretically into infinity. Phi is usually rounded off to 1.618.


http://www.goldennumber.net/
This site is dedicated to sharing the best information on Phi, the number 1.618, with insights from dozens of Contributors on a broad range of topics (See Site Map). 

the fact is golden ratio is programmed in chapter and verses between repetetive and non-repetetive numbers, no matter how difficult for your it is to swallow, i know the truth hurt sometimes :)