Author Topic: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an  (Read 59639 times)

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Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2016, 11:27:14 PM »
Peace to you Stardusty,

1-  Brother Hamza Tzortzis is not an Arabic speaker.  I am.

2-  Brother Hamza Tzortzis didn't use 7 encyclopedic dictionaries to thoroughly demonstrate how each Noble Word that spoke about a Scientific Miracle was used by the Arabs in their sayings and poetry before Islam, and how the Noble Words were used in the Noble Quran and Hadiths and other sayings after Islam.  Visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm

3-  Brother Hamza Tzortzis did not even talk about the Numerical Miracles.  I thoroughly demonstrated many of them.

It seems that all you do is throw in empty nonsense to just reject Islam.  Have it your way.  I did my part, and Allah Almighty is my Witness.  You want to continue to stubbornly reject Islam, that's your problem.  This is getting out of my hand at this point.

To the reader, please visit the following links:

www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links




Let's not get caught up on names:

Let's not get into the nonsense of using peoples' names as proofs.  I can name you names that are FAR GREATER THAN brother Hamza's name that fully embrace the school of the Scientific and Numerical Miracles in the Glorious Quran.  These are Ph.Ds with ample research in the Glorious Quran.



Allah Almighty talked about the Scientific Miracles:

Also, and again as I mentioned in the previous post, Allah Almighty left it for us, the Muslims and people in general who live in the Advanced Ages such as ours today, to discover the Quran's STUNNING Numerical and Scientific Miracles today under our advanced computer technology where we can do split second searches, counts and analysis.  Allah Almighty did Promise:

"We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and INSIDE THEIR SELVES, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things?  (The Noble Quran, 41:53)"

"...that it is the truth..." refers to the Glorious Quran being proven to be the Truth through the Scientific Signs that Allah Almighty will reveal in the Universe and in our Physiology, Biology and Embryology, and in the Numerical Miracles that all will prove that the Quran is indeed from our Creator, the Almighty.

Please visit:
www.answering-christianity.com/sci_prophecy.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac3.htm#prophecies
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links




Why not?

Why shouldn't Noble Verse 41:53 be considered a Divine Promise and Prophecy being fulfilled by Allah Almighty, Stardusty?  Why must every STUNNING Miracle and Prophecy be rejected according to you?  If the era of unveiling the Glorious Quran's Miracles, which we call today Scientific and Numerical Miracles, has begun, then why must you resist it and reject it as the infidels of old resisted and rejected the clear and evident and indisputable Truth and Signs and Miracles of Allah Almighty and his Prophets and Messengers, peace be upon all of them?  And worse, they even killed His Prophets and Messengers, and burned His Books.  And they called GOD Almighty's Miracles sorcery, magic, and lies.

I am telling you, Stardusty, Heaven and Hell are real!  The Glorious Quran tells us this.  And you are shipping yourself to the Doom of Hell with your stubbornness and blasphemies, by rejecting GOD Almighty, rejecting the Holy Quran, and rejecting Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

Yes, Heaven and Hell are VERY REAL!  Just like earth's pleasure, happiness, joy, pain, agony, bliss and fire are also real.  Heaven and Hell are real.  Why can't life be a little preview and/or demo for you and me by Allah Almighty about what to expect in the GRAND LIFE in the Day of Judgment?  Why must you chose the Doom of Hell when you have the Bliss of Heaven?  And this is no corrupt Bible or any other corrupt book claim.  The Glorious Quran has proven Itself over and over and over again to be the Divine Truth of GOD Almighty.  Allah Almighty called the Glorious Quran the Book that is "Muhaymin" (مهيمن, "Has all Authority above all") above all books.  See Noble Verse 5:48.  So why not accept It?  Why must you be on the side of the infidels?

Regarding the Holy Quran's Authority, please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/was_muta_immoral.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2016, 11:43:15 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum akhi Dawud,

I just did brief checks on DNA and you are wrong for the following reasons:

1-  Noble Verse 18:65 is talking about a MALE servant, and no name was mentioned.  Here is the Arabic text:

‏18:65 فوجدا عبدا من عبادنا اتيناه رحمة من عندنا وعلمناه من لدنا علما

[018:065] Then found they one of Our slaves, unto whom We had given mercy from Us, and had taught him knowledge from Our presence.

The Arabic word that has DNA letters in Arabic in the Noble Verse is لدنا.  But this Noble Word is also used in the following Noble Verses, and they don't give any hint about the Word's meaning to mean DNA today.


Show me where following Noble Verses are hinting to DNA?

‏4:67 واذا لاتيناهم من لدنا اجرا عظيما

[004:067]  And We should then have given them from our presence a great reward;

‏19:13 وحنانا من لدنا وزكاة وكان تقيا

[019:013]  And piety (for all creatures) as from Us, and purity: He was devout,

‏20:99 كذلك نقص عليك من انباء ماقد سبق وقد اتيناك من لدنا ذكرا

[020:099]  Thus do We relate to thee some stories of what happened before: for We have sent thee a Message from Our own Presence.

‏21:17 لو اردنا ان نتخذ لهوا لاتخذناه من لدنا ان كنا فاعلين

[021:017]  If it had been Our wish to take (just) a pastime, We should surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)!

‏28:57 وقالوا ان نتبع الهدى معك نتخطف من ارضنا او لم نمكن لهم حرما امنا يجبى اليه ثمرات كل شئ رزقا من لدنا ولكن اكثرهم لايعلمون

[028:057]  They say: "If we were to follow the guidance with thee, we should be snatched away from our land." Have We not established for them a secure sanctuary, to which are brought as tribute fruits of all kinds,- a provision from Ourselves? but most of them understand not.

I won't argue long with you on this.  Please do not use this approach here.  The others where you matched Noble Verses' numerical references with dates are ok. 

May Allah Almighty bless you.  Please honor my request to you.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2016, 01:33:05 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum akhi Dawud,

I just did brief checks on DNA and you are wrong for the following reasons:

1-  Noble Verse 18:65 is talking about a MALE servant, and no name was mentioned.  Here is the Arabic text:

‏18:65 فوجدا عبدا من عبادنا اتيناه رحمة من عندنا وعلمناه من لدنا علما

[018:065] Then found they one of Our slaves, unto whom We had given mercy from Us, and had taught him knowledge from Our presence.

The Arabic word that has DNA letters in Arabic in the Noble Verse is لدنا.  But this Noble Word is also used in the following Noble Verses, and they don't give any hint about the Word's meaning to mean DNA today.


Show me where following Noble Verses are hinting to DNA?

‏4:67 واذا لاتيناهم من لدنا اجرا عظيما

[004:067]  And We should then have given them from our presence a great reward;

‏19:13 وحنانا من لدنا وزكاة وكان تقيا

[019:013]  And piety (for all creatures) as from Us, and purity: He was devout,

‏20:99 كذلك نقص عليك من انباء ماقد سبق وقد اتيناك من لدنا ذكرا

[020:099]  Thus do We relate to thee some stories of what happened before: for We have sent thee a Message from Our own Presence.

‏21:17 لو اردنا ان نتخذ لهوا لاتخذناه من لدنا ان كنا فاعلين

[021:017]  If it had been Our wish to take (just) a pastime, We should surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)!

‏28:57 وقالوا ان نتبع الهدى معك نتخطف من ارضنا او لم نمكن لهم حرما امنا يجبى اليه ثمرات كل شئ رزقا من لدنا ولكن اكثرهم لايعلمون

[028:057]  They say: "If we were to follow the guidance with thee, we should be snatched away from our land." Have We not established for them a secure sanctuary, to which are brought as tribute fruits of all kinds,- a provision from Ourselves? but most of them understand not.

I won't argue long with you on this.  Please do not use this approach here.  The others where you matched Noble Verses' numerical references with dates are ok. 

May Allah Almighty bless you.  Please honor my request to you.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Alaikom Salam brother Osama, i want to tell you one thing, wallahi i love you in the name of Allah for your effort on this site, this site has shaped my knowledge about Islam, you dont know how many times i have used your texts from this site in my dawah, i pray to Allah to reward you with paradise.

Before we end this discussion about programming letters in quran i want to tell you one thing, be like one of the sahaba when he wanted to hear what prophet had to say, he was thinking If he speak true i will accept it, if he speak falsehood i will reject it, i am logical man.

SO if i speak the true, you can only benefit from it and use my arguments in your dawah, beacuse so far nobody of atheists could reject those examples even though they wanted to do it so bad, but they could not.

Even if a Child comes to me and say, Hey, do you want to learn from me something new about quran wich can benefit you in your dawah, i would say show me, beacuse i know if something is logical i accept it if it is not i reject it, as easy as that.


when i search in quran i use your quran search on answering-christianity to verify claims of other Before i accept them


Quote
I just did brief checks on DNA and you are wrong for the following reasons:

1-  Noble Verse 18:65 is talking about a MALE servant, and no name was mentioned.  Here is the Arabic text:

‏18:65 فوجدا عبدا من عبادنا اتيناه رحمة من عندنا وعلمناه من لدنا علما

[018:065] Then found they one of Our slaves, unto whom We had given mercy from Us, and had taught him knowledge from Our presence.

The Arabic word that has DNA letters in Arabic in the Noble Verse is لدنا.  But this Noble Word is also used in the following Noble Verses, and they don't give any hint about the Word's meaning to mean DNA today.

let me explain Before you reject it

in Quran letters DNA are found on many places, 1 occurence/verse many times , 2 occurences/verse many times
so nothing is special with those occurence as far as i know beacuse they occur in many placesnothing support them expect that letters are in correct order next to each other

but you missed this

‏18:65 فوجدا عبدا من عبادنا اتيناه رحمة من عندنا وعلمناه من لدنا علما

only this verse contain DNA 3 times and nowhere else in the quran, there were 1, 2 and 3 occurence /verse in the quran but not greater than 3, like 4,5 or more.
So 3 times /verse is only ONCE, that is why it makes it special in verse 18:65--->year 1865

If i picked one verse with DNA 1 occurence you could say, why pick that verse why not pick other, or if i picked verse with 2 occurences/verse you would say why pick that why not other verse with 2 occurences

but you cant say why did you picked that verse with DNA mentioned 3 times /verse and not other one with 3 times, beacuse there is no other verse with DNA 3 times. You can witness this with you own Eyes

copy letter DNA
دنا
and put it in your search quran program and yo uwill see that only verse 18:65 mentions only DNA 3 time and nowhere else, that is why it is special.

DO you understand me brother now?
If you want to accept this, just accept it, if you want to reject it, just reject it, and we will end our discussion with nummerical programing with letters

Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2016, 01:37:12 AM »
‏18:65 فوجدا عبدا من عبادنا اتيناه رحمة من عندنا وعلمناه من لدنا علما

DNA letter 3 times in one verse only

Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2016, 01:49:24 AM »
Sorry brother Osama, but Hamza Tzortzis has called your assertions “an intellectual embarrassment” and “incoherent” as well as lacking “intellectual integrity”.

Hamza Tzortzis has explicitly refuted a number of your asserted scientific miracles.

Hamza Tzortzis is undoubtedly well aware of all your other asserted miracles and is unable to apply his criteria for verification of any of them as scientific miracles.

Hamza Tzortzis used to make the argument from embryology, as well as others.  He put his words to the test of public scrutiny and very much to his credit he has come to realize he was simply mistaken.  He has shown great intellectual integrity by having the courage to make a change in the face of reason and facts.

I sincerely invite you to examine the below words in context, consider the refutations I have made, and make a change.  I know that rejecting your faith altogether is a bridge too far for you, but your notion of scientific miracles in the Qur’an simply is not tenable.

http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/essays-articles/exploring-the-quran/does-the-quran-contain-scientific-miracles-a-new-approach/
“Regrettably, the scientific miracles narrative has become an intellectual embarrassment for Muslim apologists, including myself”

“It has become an intellectual embarrassment for Muslim apologists and it has exposed the lack of coherence in the way they have formulated the argument.”

“To claim that there is anything scientifically miraculous about a particular Qur’ānic verse is incoherent.”

“When claiming that something is miraculous it means that there is no plausible naturalistic explanation.”

“It is all a learning curve and an important part of developing intellectual integrity.”

“Although this proposed criteria to salvage the science in the Qur’ān narrative is still work in progress, I personally find it almost impossible to practically fulfill the above criteria.”

i can tell you that Osama is speaking the true when he claim scientific miracles in the quran beacuse i have verifed his claims,

you can verfy it too

if we take this example

We created man from an extract of clay.  Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed.  Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)... 1 (Quran, 23:12-14)


ثُمَّ خَلَقْنَا النُّطْفَةَ عَلَقَةً

Then We made the semen-drop into an alaqah
 (leech)

if you still dont Believe , translate this quranic Word عَلَقَةً

https://translate.google.se/#ar/en/%D8%B9%D9%8E%D9%84%D9%8E%D9%82%D9%8E%D8%A9%D9%8B%DB%AC

and you will get this : Leech

let have a look how embryo in that stage look like


why would God yuse Word leech then in describing embryo?
http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php?title=Scanning_Electron_Microscopy

this is why




even head of leech and embryo look same

question for you all, who can connect embryo phase with LEECH in 6th Century without microscope?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:39:42 PM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2016, 02:55:07 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Dawud,

Please write your actual writings in text and not in images.  Just like your answers to me in your recent posts.  This would:

1-  Allow for your writings to be picked up by search engines.

2-  Allow for them to be searchable by the users.

3-  Allows the user to copy and paste and verify.

Now for actual pictures like the Leech, for example, then yes, please do post them as pictures.  But please make your text in actual writings and not images.  If I have objections or find errors, then I'll just directly respond to you.  This way we can interact and reach to the Truth, insha'Allah.

May Allah Almighty bless you, akhi.  Ameen.  Feel free to express your thoughts as you wish.  I won't interfere.  I will interact with replies if needed, insha'Allah.

Take care akhi, and keep up the great work!
Osama Abdallah

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2016, 03:24:44 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Dawud,

Please write your actual writings in text and not in images.  Just like your answers to me in your recent posts.  This would:

1-  Allow for your writings to be picked up by search engines.

2-  Allow for them to be searchable by the users.

3-  Allows the user to copy and paste and verify.

Now for actual pictures like the Leech, for example, then yes, please do post them as pictures.  But please make your text in actual writings and not images.  If I have objections or find errors, then I'll just directly respond to you.  This way we can interact and reach to the Truth, insha'Allah.

May Allah Almighty bless you, akhi.  Ameen.  Feel free to express your thoughts as you wish.  I won't interfere.  I will interact with replies if needed, insha'Allah.

Take care akhi, and keep up the great work!
Osama Abdallah

Alaikom Selam

ok i understand.

Offline StardustyPsyche

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2016, 11:52:34 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum brother Osama,
In any language there are no scientific miracles in the Qur’an.  I do not rely on one translator, rather I go to corpus.quran, and if you have additional translations I am always interested in contrasting your translation with that of established and often referenced authors.

In any language brother Hamza has thoroughly refuted explicitly several of your asserted scientific miracles.  You have offered no specific rebuttals to our refutations, only links that repeat your erroneous assertions. He has not explicitly addressed all of them but I will begin to do so myself below.

Yes, I would be interested in the PhDs and others you mention.  What are their names?

I have replicated one of your asserted miracles.  It took me about an hour.

Below are 114 numbers representing the number of verses in 114 chapters of a book.
105,59,48,59,20,49,29,74,28,4,22,4,7,63,18,92,13,7,12,104,8,92,74,44,86,2,85,22,19,94,18,97,18,54,53,40,72,26,42,98,13,4,26,96,74,12,99,35,71,93,33,57,103,32,46,75,98,4,99,9,14,52,44,87,46,81,93,2,101,17,17,29,30,87,40,62,40,100,104,54,85,27,41,83,70,98,30,35,65,105,64,8,96,66,69,4,47,65,72,18,31,48,64,13,100,21,46,3,63,11,103,103,98,46

The sum of these 114 numbers is 5938.
The sum of 114 verse numbers is 6555, as you have often cited.
Entering the 114 verse count number into your numerology algorithm yields a sum of even numbers equal to 5938, and the sum of the odd numbers equal to 6555.

I, an ordinary man, intentionally constructed this “numerical miracle”.  Therefore, an ordinary 7th century man was capable of doing the same. 

It was all good fun and I learned a few fascinating aspects of this numerological illusion, and in the spirit of Randy, I will reveal my secrets. 

First the sum of the chapter numbers and the verse numbers must always equal the sum of the even numbers and the odd numbers.  This is because the whole numerological algorithm is just an example of the associative property and the commutative property of addition.  The algorithm adds a set of numbers using one set of associations, then adds that same set of numbers a second time using a different set of associations.  Since association and commutation does not change the sum in addition of positive numbers the answers must always match no matter what the verse lengths are.

But this numerology lays out additional criteria.  The individual sums must always match.  Now, since 6555 is an odd number the chapter number total must match the odd number total, because a sum of even numbers is always an even number.

Likewise, the verse length total must be an even number, because it must match the total of even numbers, which is always even.

So, all I had to do was get the odd number total to match the fixed value of 6555. This was quickly and easily done by my brain.  For example, if the total of the odd numbers was 121 too low, all I had to do was look for an even number of 122.  I then subtracted 1 from the verse length on that row so the total would now be 121 on that row.  The even/odd test automatically moved the number 122 out of the even number column and into the odd number column as 121.

This movement caused the odd number total to rise to exactly 6555.  By necessity of the algorithmic structure the even number total automatically then matched the verse count total and…presto…I created a “numerical miracle”.

In real life all the scribe would have had to do is combine 2 adjacent verses in the chapter into a single verse, and he would have achieved the exact same effect.

Brother Osama, the time has come for an intellectual awakening for you.  I warmly invite you to the realm of rationality and reason.  I urge you to find the intellectual courage to realize the enormity of your errors, and make a change that cleanses your mind of your irrational belief in scientific miracles in the Qur’an.

I, for one, will not be gloating when you do, rather, warmly welcoming you into the light of reason.

Peace Bro

Offline StardustyPsyche

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2016, 12:32:27 AM »
Brother Dawud,
Thank you for quoting the Qur’an, it makes such an obvious fact of the utter lack of scientific miracles in it.

“We created man from an extract of clay.”
No, science tells us that humans evolved from lower primates.

 “Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed.”
No, this is nonsense.  There is no “drop in a place of settlement” phase in human development.

 “ Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot),”
No, there is no leech stage or blood clot stage of human development.  Anyone who has ever cut the cord for a newborn baby knows babies are, in a very vague sense, a “suspended thing”.

“ then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)... “
No, there is no “chewed substance” stage of human development.

1 (Quran, 23:12-14)
This passage is obviously a crude and false guess about human origins from mud, followed by a very primitive and ignorant description of the products of miscarriage.

I will not post the images themselves because it could be an emotional issue for those who have lost a child in pregnancy, but the unfortunate fact is that miscarriages have been happening for all human time.  In the days of Muhammad there was no 911 call and a rush to the hospital.  Women had their miscarriages wherever they lived so the sight of the products must have been well known.

Obviously, the products of a miscarriage look like “a chewed thing” or a “leech” or a “blood clot”  just use google images.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--6AnFcAXnZY/VVp5JROhJGI/AAAAAAAABlQ/vXJyFxq-Zt8/s1600/first-trimester-miscarriage.jpg
http://lostinnocentsorthodox.blogspot.com/p/photographs.html
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l40/jlojoyz/Period2.jpg
http://www.newkidscenter.com/images/1FR00694/4%20weeks.JPG
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/bethanyd.jpg
http://imageserve.babycenter.com/15/000/313/2tY0KDyLyphZdkjRO3r5sSAvDtjDRMjc_lg.jpg

Muhammad was just giving a crude description of an unfortunately all too common sight.

How anybody can even remotely consider this to be a “scientific miracle” is the only mind-boggling aspect to the nonsense argument from embryology.


Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2016, 02:42:33 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum brother Osama,
In any language there are no scientific miracles in the Qur’an.  I do not rely on one translator, rather I go to corpus.quran, and if you have additional translations I am always interested in contrasting your translation with that of established and often referenced authors.

In any language brother Hamza has thoroughly refuted explicitly several of your asserted scientific miracles.  You have offered no specific rebuttals to our refutations, only links that repeat your erroneous assertions. He has not explicitly addressed all of them but I will begin to do so myself below.

Yes, I would be interested in the PhDs and others you mention.  What are their names?

I have replicated one of your asserted miracles.  It took me about an hour.

Below are 114 numbers representing the number of verses in 114 chapters of a book.
105,59,48,59,20,49,29,74,28,4,22,4,7,63,18,92,13,7,12,104,8,92,74,44,86,2,85,22,19,94,18,97,18,54,53,40,72,26,42,98,13,4,26,96,74,12,99,35,71,93,33,57,103,32,46,75,98,4,99,9,14,52,44,87,46,81,93,2,101,17,17,29,30,87,40,62,40,100,104,54,85,27,41,83,70,98,30,35,65,105,64,8,96,66,69,4,47,65,72,18,31,48,64,13,100,21,46,3,63,11,103,103,98,46

The sum of these 114 numbers is 5938.
The sum of 114 verse numbers is 6555, as you have often cited.
Entering the 114 verse count number into your numerology algorithm yields a sum of even numbers equal to 5938, and the sum of the odd numbers equal to 6555.


I, an ordinary man, intentionally constructed this “numerical miracle”.  Therefore, an ordinary 7th century man was capable of doing the same. 

It was all good fun and I learned a few fascinating aspects of this numerological illusion, and in the spirit of Randy, I will reveal my secrets. 

First the sum of the chapter numbers and the verse numbers must always equal the sum of the even numbers and the odd numbers.  This is because the whole numerological algorithm is just an example of the associative property and the commutative property of addition.  The algorithm adds a set of numbers using one set of associations, then adds that same set of numbers a second time using a different set of associations.  Since association and commutation does not change the sum in addition of positive numbers the answers must always match no matter what the verse lengths are.

But this numerology lays out additional criteria.  The individual sums must always match.  Now, since 6555 is an odd number the chapter number total must match the odd number total, because a sum of even numbers is always an even number.

Likewise, the verse length total must be an even number, because it must match the total of even numbers, which is always even.

So, all I had to do was get the odd number total to match the fixed value of 6555. This was quickly and easily done by my brain.  For example, if the total of the odd numbers was 121 too low, all I had to do was look for an even number of 122.  I then subtracted 1 from the verse length on that row so the total would now be 121 on that row.  The even/odd test automatically moved the number 122 out of the even number column and into the odd number column as 121.

This movement caused the odd number total to rise to exactly 6555.  By necessity of the algorithmic structure the even number total automatically then matched the verse count total and…presto…I created a “numerical miracle”.

In real life all the scribe would have had to do is combine 2 adjacent verses in the chapter into a single verse, and he would have achieved the exact same effect.

Brother Osama, the time has come for an intellectual awakening for you.  I warmly invite you to the realm of rationality and reason.  I urge you to find the intellectual courage to realize the enormity of your errors, and make a change that cleanses your mind of your irrational belief in scientific miracles in the Qur’an.

I, for one, will not be gloating when you do, rather, warmly welcoming you into the light of reason.

Peace Bro

you Think you have but you have not

let me show you why you have not succeeded in programing




Here, we have repetetive
nummerical values from the table above
for example chapters 85 and 99 have
same nummerical value 107, we summerize all repetitive nummerical values


Here,
we have non-repetitive nummerical values, and we summerize them also


We can clearly
see golden ratio between Reptitive and non-repetitive nummerical values from
this table


question for you is now, did you programmed golden ratio in your numbers like it is programmed in the quran and verse numbers?

and if you do this, same else should also be programmed wich is even greater than previous example, all most be symtrical like quran chapter and verse numbers are symtrical.

try first with golden ratio, then we can continue on simetry.


« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:42:40 PM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2016, 02:44:02 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum brother Osama,
In any language there are no scientific miracles in the Qur’an.  I do not rely on one translator, rather I go to corpus.quran, and if you have additional translations I am always interested in contrasting your translation with that of established and often referenced authors.

In any language brother Hamza has thoroughly refuted explicitly several of your asserted scientific miracles.  You have offered no specific rebuttals to our refutations, only links that repeat your erroneous assertions. He has not explicitly addressed all of them but I will begin to do so myself below.

Yes, I would be interested in the PhDs and others you mention.  What are their names?

I have replicated one of your asserted miracles.  It took me about an hour.

Below are 114 numbers representing the number of verses in 114 chapters of a book.
105,59,48,59,20,49,29,74,28,4,22,4,7,63,18,92,13,7,12,104,8,92,74,44,86,2,85,22,19,94,18,97,18,54,53,40,72,26,42,98,13,4,26,96,74,12,99,35,71,93,33,57,103,32,46,75,98,4,99,9,14,52,44,87,46,81,93,2,101,17,17,29,30,87,40,62,40,100,104,54,85,27,41,83,70,98,30,35,65,105,64,8,96,66,69,4,47,65,72,18,31,48,64,13,100,21,46,3,63,11,103,103,98,46

The sum of these 114 numbers is 5938.
The sum of 114 verse numbers is 6555, as you have often cited.
Entering the 114 verse count number into your numerology algorithm yields a sum of even numbers equal to 5938, and the sum of the odd numbers equal to 6555.


I, an ordinary man, intentionally constructed this “numerical miracle”.  Therefore, an ordinary 7th century man was capable of doing the same. 

It was all good fun and I learned a few fascinating aspects of this numerological illusion, and in the spirit of Randy, I will reveal my secrets. 

First the sum of the chapter numbers and the verse numbers must always equal the sum of the even numbers and the odd numbers.  This is because the whole numerological algorithm is just an example of the associative property and the commutative property of addition.  The algorithm adds a set of numbers using one set of associations, then adds that same set of numbers a second time using a different set of associations.  Since association and commutation does not change the sum in addition of positive numbers the answers must always match no matter what the verse lengths are.

But this numerology lays out additional criteria.  The individual sums must always match.  Now, since 6555 is an odd number the chapter number total must match the odd number total, because a sum of even numbers is always an even number.

Likewise, the verse length total must be an even number, because it must match the total of even numbers, which is always even.

So, all I had to do was get the odd number total to match the fixed value of 6555. This was quickly and easily done by my brain.  For example, if the total of the odd numbers was 121 too low, all I had to do was look for an even number of 122.  I then subtracted 1 from the verse length on that row so the total would now be 121 on that row.  The even/odd test automatically moved the number 122 out of the even number column and into the odd number column as 121.

This movement caused the odd number total to rise to exactly 6555.  By necessity of the algorithmic structure the even number total automatically then matched the verse count total and…presto…I created a “numerical miracle”.

In real life all the scribe would have had to do is combine 2 adjacent verses in the chapter into a single verse, and he would have achieved the exact same effect.

Brother Osama, the time has come for an intellectual awakening for you.  I warmly invite you to the realm of rationality and reason.  I urge you to find the intellectual courage to realize the enormity of your errors, and make a change that cleanses your mind of your irrational belief in scientific miracles in the Qur’an.

I, for one, will not be gloating when you do, rather, warmly welcoming you into the light of reason.

Peace Bro

you Think you have but you have not

let me show you why you have not succeeded in programing





Here, we have repetetive
nummerical values from the table above
for example chapters 85 and 99 have
same nummerical value 107, we summerize all repetitive nummerical values


Here,
we have non-repetitive nummerical values, and we summerize them also


We can clearly
see golden ratio between Reptitive and non-repetitive nummerical values from
this table


question for you is now, did you programmed golden ratio in your numbers like it is programmed in the quran and verse numbers?

and if you do this, same else should also be programmed wich is even greater than previous example, all most be symtrical like quran chapter and verse numbers are symtrical.

try first with golden ratio, then we can continue on simetry.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:44:35 PM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Dawud

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2016, 02:49:07 AM »
Brother Dawud,
Thank you for quoting the Qur’an, it makes such an obvious fact of the utter lack of scientific miracles in it.

“We created man from an extract of clay.”
No, science tells us that humans evolved from lower primates.

 “Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed.”
No, this is nonsense.  There is no “drop in a place of settlement” phase in human development.

 “ Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot),”
No, there is no leech stage or blood clot stage of human development.  Anyone who has ever cut the cord for a newborn baby knows babies are, in a very vague sense, a “suspended thing”.

“ then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)... “
No, there is no “chewed substance” stage of human development.

1 (Quran, 23:12-14)
This passage is obviously a crude and false guess about human origins from mud, followed by a very primitive and ignorant description of the products of miscarriage.

I will not post the images themselves because it could be an emotional issue for those who have lost a child in pregnancy, but the unfortunate fact is that miscarriages have been happening for all human time.  In the days of Muhammad there was no 911 call and a rush to the hospital.  Women had their miscarriages wherever they lived so the sight of the products must have been well known.

Obviously, the products of a miscarriage look like “a chewed thing” or a “leech” or a “blood clot”  just use google images.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--6AnFcAXnZY/VVp5JROhJGI/AAAAAAAABlQ/vXJyFxq-Zt8/s1600/first-trimester-miscarriage.jpg
http://lostinnocentsorthodox.blogspot.com/p/photographs.html
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l40/jlojoyz/Period2.jpg
http://www.newkidscenter.com/images/1FR00694/4%20weeks.JPG
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/bethanyd.jpg
http://imageserve.babycenter.com/15/000/313/2tY0KDyLyphZdkjRO3r5sSAvDtjDRMjc_lg.jpg

Muhammad was just giving a crude description of an unfortunately all too common sight.

How anybody can even remotely consider this to be a “scientific miracle” is the only mind-boggling aspect to the nonsense argument from embryology.


Quote
“We created man from an extract of clay.”
No, science tells us that humans evolved from lower primates.

no, science dont tell us that, beacuse science is emprical, something wich you can see and test in experiments, while evolution is a theory, not a fact.


Quote
“ Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot),”
No, there is no leech stage or blood clot stage of human development.  Anyone who has ever cut the cord for a newborn baby knows babies are, in a very vague sense, a “suspended thing”.

what is this then?




why does embryo look like leech on this microscopic photo? why are you lying yourself on this Point, you can clearly see, everybody can clearly see and you say there is no leech stage.

we are neighter dumb nor blind, but if you want to be blind then be blind.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:46:00 PM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Tarek Habbal

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2016, 02:31:40 AM »
This guy stardust is an obvious troll brother Osama

Funny when people keep talking they eventually expose themselves.


He does not believe in God and the creation yet he has no problem whatsoever swallowing the scam known as the evolution lol

Tell me something fella... how many times were your evolutionists caught red handed faking evidence?

Attaching ape jaws to human skellies lololol... and don't get me started on Lucy (more like Lucifer)


Thisguy is here to troll bro... probably Hasbara.. i can smell them miles away


Tell me something Hasbara... what do NASA first look for when they send probes to outer space to check for life?


WATER!!!!


"We created from water every living thing" ....SPOT ON!!


When you are in the grave and you are left to rot... what do you go back to? Dust... earth..clay... SPOT ON!!!


AS for the Embryology... i think i might as well take the word of an expert in the field rather than a troll: Dr. Moore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFq6E0l2J4U


And so on and so forth...

I tell you what is miraculous about the Quran... for every miracle you can say but Muhammad traveled and observed and bla bla bla.... it is the consistency... the utter precision. Not ONE mistake. now if only 2 or 3 miracles hit the nail on the head.. id be skeptic.. but each singleone of them and there are hundreds and thousands yet to be uncovered.

And we haven't even delved into the linguistics of the Quran yet and its miracles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ULa2JzPG0

The language, the predictions...

I dealt with scum like this my entire life.

This guy is a shekels per posts type of guy... AMIRITE?

Assalam :)

 



Offline StardustyPsyche

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2016, 06:28:44 AM »
Brother Tarek,
Allow me to remind you of the meaning of the term you use repeatedly.
spot-on
(spŏt′ŏn′, -ôn′)
adj.
Precisely right; exact:


"We created from water every living thing" ....SPOT ON!!
“When you are in the grave and you are left to rot... what do you go back to? Dust... earth..clay... SPOT ON!!!”

So, in your view, it is precisely right and exact that life is made from water and that we return to dust , earth and clay when we rot.

You are wrong on both counts.

Life is not made exactly from water; in fact DNA requires 5 elements whereas water only contains 2 elements.

We do not return exactly to dust, earth, and clay.  Much of our bodies turns to gas, or is consumed by other organisms, or returns to the water cycle.

It has been suggested here previously that I am committing a logical fallacy in insisting that the words of Allah must be complete.  But you apparently do interpret those words as precise and exact.  If your interpretation of the words is correct then both you and the Qur’an are quite mistaken.

However, water is obviously essential to life, and we obviously do break down and contribute to soil growth when we are buried in the ground.  This is a miraculous observation to you?

Fine, I will give you a few more miraculous observations:
Water flows downhill
The sun rises in the East and sets in the West
The sky is blue but sometimes gray or red or even a bit green
Water is essential to life
Our bodies decay when we die

Brother Tarek, I am sorry to say you have not considered these matters very carefully and I urge you to realize that simple observations of the natural world do not constitute a ‘”scientific miracle”

Peace Bro

Offline StardustyPsyche

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Re: There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2016, 06:52:55 AM »
Brother Dawud,
No, there is no leech stage to human development.

"what is this then?" you ask.
Answer, a human embryo.

Yes, I realize that at that point in development there is a very crude resemblance between a leech and a human embryo.

This resembles a leech
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5Oh_aR1WQ9Q/U9E5p18kanI/AAAAAAAASOw/6gLuAevyh20/s1600/image_2+-+WM.jpeg

This also resembles a leech
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/bethanyd.jpg

It is a simple observational fact that human beings resemble leeches in their early development. 

All that is needed to observe this fact is a miscarriage.

Miscarriages were, unfortunately, common.

There is no scientific miracle in describing the products of a miscarriage as a leech, or a clot, or a chewed thing.  Those are just crude descriptions of the obvious.

Peace Bro