Author Topic: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?  (Read 6963 times)

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Offline Ramihs97

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Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« on: August 28, 2016, 08:38:31 AM »
We've established how thumma can mean moreover (I've checked for proof).

But in Surah Fussilat verses 9-12.

Isn't it implying that when the heavens and earth came together the earth already had mountains in it ?

That the stars came the same time as earth ? Same age ?

And why did it distinguish between seven heavens and samaa al dunya ? Are they supposedly the same ?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2016, 09:08:38 AM »
UPDATE ON September 3, 2016:

Noble Verse 39:67 clearly proves that EARTH in the Quran is both PLURAL and SINGULAR:

والارض جميعا (all of the earths)

www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2243.msg9958.html#msg9958

Continuing with my post:




Here is what Allah Almighty Said in Noble Verses 41:9-12:

[041:009]  Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.

[041:010]  He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

[041:011]  Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."

[041:012]  So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.


‏41:9 قل ائنكم لتكفرون بالذي خلق الارض في يومين وتجعلون له اندادا ذلك رب العالمين
 ‏41:10 وجعل فيها رواسي من فوقها وبارك فيها وقدر فيها اقواتها في اربعة ايام سواء للسائلين
 ‏41:11 ثم استوى الى السماء وهي دخان فقال لها وللارض ائتيا طوعا او كرها قالتا اتينا طائعين
 ‏41:12 فقضاهن سبع سموات في يومين واوحى في كل سماء امرها وزينا السماء الدنيا بمصابيح وحفظا ذلك تقدير العزيز العليم


The following points will insha'Allah will make everything very clear to you:

1-  The Heaven was all smoke.  Science has confirmed that the Universe was one big body of smoke.  The entire universe originated from smoke:

"smoke" that was the origin of the whole universe. (The Space Atlas, Heather and Henbest, page 50)  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/hot_gas.htm



The 6 other Heavens were copies from the original one:

2-  Similar to how Allah Almighty CLONED mankind from the back of Adam, peace be upon him, by creating many different people from Adam simultaneously, the Heaven and the Earth were copied into 7 different Heavens.  For the human-cloning, please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/cloning.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,842.msg2547.html#msg2547


Notice in the Noble Verses above how:

(a).  Allah Almighty spoke about creating and fashioning the earth and its complex system to support our complex life.

(b).  Allah Almighty spoke about creating the Heaven that the earth is in.

(c).  Brought both the Heaven and the Earth together, "willingly or unwillingly", while the Universe was still all smoke.

(d).  THEN HE MULTIPLIED THEM into 7 Heavens:

[041:012]  So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.....



3-  So like mankind who were cloned into many types and many nations from the back of Adam, the Heavens and all of their Earths were cloned from the initial Heaven and Earth that Allah Almighty Created and fashioned.  This is why you read in another Noble Verse:

"God is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that God has power over all things, and that God comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.  (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"

 ‏65:12 الله الذي خلق سبع سموات ومن الارض مثلهن يتنزل الامر بينهن لتعلموا ان الله على كل شئ قدير وان الله قد احاط بكل شئ علما

Earth is both singular and plural in the Glorious Quran.  Each cloned Heaven has its set of EARTHS that contain life (similar or exact as ours) in them.  This is why the Angels were very concerned when Allah Almighty wanted to create a vicegerent on earth.  They worried that he would shed the blood and do injustice.  They obviously had terrible experiences in the past with similar creatures to ours.  For ample proofs, please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/adam.htm


The Noble Verse doesn't say 7 earths only.  As I explained in my previous post above, THE ONE HEAVEN became 7 Heavens.  And so whatever earths it had, the other Heavens had similar earths.  To further prove this, consider the following Noble Verse:

"When the sky/heaven (السماء) disintegrates, and turns rose colored like paint (وردة كالدهان)." (The Noble Quran, 55:37)

‏55:37 فاذا انشقت السماء فكانت وردة كالدهان



We know exactly that the rose-colored explosions are stars (solar systems) expiring.  So each star is its EARTH samaa (Heaven).  So when Allah Almighty says "....and of the earth a similar number....", He is talking about the solar systems inside each Heaven that do have life, whether similar or not similar to ours, on them.  So Samaa can be limited to our local solar system, and it can mean the Heaven that we're in, and it can also mean the ORIGINAL GRAND HEAVEN that Allah Almighty Created and made a total of 7 Heavens out of it.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/galaxy_explosion.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/sci_prophecy.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm


I hope this helps, insha'Allah.  No errors in the Glorious Quran.  The doomed-to-Hell infidels have nothing but noise and lies on the Quran.  We have the Divine Truth of Allah Almighty with us.  THANKS TO ALLAH ALMIGHTY COUNTLESS TIMES that He Created me a Muslim!  Alhamdulillah indeed for this infinitely blessing gift.  And again, visit the following links to see the STUNNING and Overwhelming Scientific and Numerical Miracles, and also Prophecies in the Glorious Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/ac3.htm#prophecies



Bring us all of the challenges that have confused you.  We will thoroughly refute them here, insha'Allah....

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline submit

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2016, 09:55:28 AM »
6 days were referring to the shaping of earth and 7 heavens.
Before the 6 days, various matters, smoke and water had already existed.

Offline Ramihs97

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2016, 11:49:10 AM »
I'm so sorry brother Osama the points seem rather confusing and didnt seem to answer my questions?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2016, 01:04:50 PM »
I'm so sorry brother Osama the points seem rather confusing and didnt seem to answer my questions?

And what is confusing about my answer?  Allah Almighty Created the Universe and everything in it, and He, the Almighty:

1-  Either duplicated it 6 more times as He duplicated mankind after the creation of Adam and Eve.

--OR--

2-  Divided the Universe into 7 similar Heavens.

In either case, what is confusing about it?  The Quran is clear about ONE HEAVEN was initially created, and then Allah Almighty out of it made a total of 7 Heavens.  You can say it got cloned, or Allah Almighty from that prototype made similar Heavens, or Allah Almighty simply divided the HUGE Heaven into 7 Heavens.  Any case is fine with me.  And many things in the Universe belong to the unknown.  Allah Almighty Said:

[017:085]  They will ask thee of the spirit. Say, 'The spirit comes at the bidding of my Lord, and ye are given but a little knowledge thereof.'

Please don't be shy.  If you think I am a complete doofus with the points I presented, then speak up.  I am always open to correction and criticism.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Ramihs97

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2016, 01:11:46 PM »
@Osama i meant in terms of chronological order. Isnt it saying the stars came after or with the earth ?

And that there were mountains already on earth when they came  willingly or unwillingly ?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2016, 01:22:26 PM »
Noble Verse 41:10 above uses "AND" (wa و).  It is not giving chronological order.  It is simply listing the things that were created.  Allah Almighty was explaining what He created on earth.

Besides, like our creation inside our mothers' wombs, things do great created or formed in parallel fashion.  Multiple things can occur at the same time.  So while the EARTHS (plural) in the HEAVEN were getting created and fashioned, other creations such as stars and other solar systems were also being created.  In other words, the entire Universe's creation didn't PAUSE while waiting on the earth to finish forming its mountains.

The anti-Islamics are too silly.  And if they apply 1% of their BS on their books, then they wouldn't continue to believe in them.  Like for example, GOD was afraid from the Iraqis (Babylonians) to create a tower that would reach Him:

www.answering-christianity.com/bible_scientific_absurdities.htm


And remember, there is not just one earth:

"God is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that God has power over all things, and that God comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.  (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"

 ‏65:12 الله الذي خلق سبع سموات ومن الارض مثلهن يتنزل الامر بينهن لتعلموا ان الله على كل شئ قدير وان الله قد احاط بكل شئ علما

The Noble Verse doesn't say 7 earths only.  As I explained in my previous post above, THE ONE HEAVEN became 7 Heavens.  And so whatever earths it had, the other Heavens had similar earths.  To further prove this, consider the following Noble Verse:

"When the sky/heaven (السماء) disintegrates, and turns rose colored like paint (وردة كالدهان)." (The Noble Quran, 55:37)

‏55:37 فاذا انشقت السماء فكانت وردة كالدهان



We know exactly that the rose-colored explosions are stars (solar systems) expiring.  So each star is its EARTH samaa (Heaven).  So when Allah Almighty says "....and of the earth a similar number....", He is talking about the solar systems inside each Heaven that do have life, whether similar or not similar to ours, on them.  So Samaa can be limited to our local solar system, and it can mean the Heaven that we're in, and it can also mean the ORIGINAL GRAND HEAVEN that Allah Almighty Created and made a total of 7 Heavens out of it.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/galaxy_explosion.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/sci_prophecy.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm


I hope this answers your question.  Feel free to ask more and more. 

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Ramihs97

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2016, 06:45:13 AM »
@Osama Thanks but isnt the sun/stars billions of years older than the earth ? How could they be forming at the same time shouldn't one be after another ?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2016, 07:44:14 AM »
Allah Almighty Said in the Glorious Quran that the Universe is expanding.  This has been discussed here:

www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1027.msg3438.html#msg3438

This means that the Universe is in constant creation and evolving, which means that the celestial bodies are not all the same age.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah




Offline Ramihs97

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2016, 04:45:28 PM »
hey guys from verses 9-12 Is it implying that the after the creation of the earth the Lamps were fashioned after it ?

and that animals and the mountains were equally put there at the same time for those who ask ?

Offline Ramihs97

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2016, 02:54:55 AM »
Guys ?

Offline submit

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2016, 10:29:55 AM »
As layers of 7 heavens reaches completion, it became more beautiful to observe the lamps.

Quote
And We have placed within the heaven great stars and have beautified it for the observers. (15:16)


The shaping of 7 heavens and earth completed within 2 days.

Quote
He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.
And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.
And after that He spread the earth.
He extracted from it its water and its pasture,
And the mountains He set firmly
As provision for you and your grazing livestock.  (79:28-33)

Offline Ramihs97

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2016, 10:42:47 AM »
@submit i'm sorry im confused, what were you implying in terms of sequence in regards to the stars/mountains and animals ?

Offline submit

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2016, 08:21:57 PM »

As shown in verse (79:28-33)
the sequence would be the layering of 7 heavens and arrangement of its heavenly bodies to the lowest layer. Once completed.
After that the next stage will be spreading of earth, followed by provision of mountains and livestocks.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Contradiction in surah fussilat ?
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2017, 03:44:19 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,

New evidence from the Glorious Quran about the existence of many earths was added to:

www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah