Author Topic: Ali Sina's book needs refutation  (Read 9183 times)

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Offline muslimforever2012

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Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« on: April 28, 2017, 09:29:46 am »
Assalamu Alaikum

I was trying to debate with Ali Sina last month but he gave me his book and told me to try to refute his proof. He abruptly ended the debate because he thought I would leave Islam if I read his book but I didn't. So would anyone be kind enough to help me refute this fool? His book's name is ''Understanding Muhammad and Muslims''. I want to attach it but I don't know how.

Thanks. 

Online TruthExposer777

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2017, 10:18:58 am »
Assalamu Alaikum

I was trying to debate with Ali Sina last month but he gave me his book and told me to try to refute his proof. He abruptly ended the debate because he thought I would leave Islam if I read his book but I didn't. So would anyone be kind enough to help me refute this fool? His book's name is ''Understanding Muhammad and Muslims''. I want to attach it but I don't know how.

Thanks. 
https://rebuttaltounderstandingmuhammad.wordpress.com/
http://www.answering-christianity.com/faithfreedom_rebuttals.htm
https://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

Offline muslimforever2012

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 11:12:21 am »
Thanks for replying, but I have a problem. I went to the websites:
1. https://rebuttaltounderstandingmuhammad.wordpress.com/
2. http://www.answering-christianity.com/faithfreedom_rebuttals.htm
3. https://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

Website 1. had articles refuting the charges against Muhammad, but some of them said that there was no Hadith or verse to support the claim, even though it did.

I read website 2., but I was interested in debating with Ali Sina over this:http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge-2/, which will defeat him forever.

Website 3. is the same thing as website 2.

Please don't take this as an insult, but I still need help.

Offline muslimforever2012

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 11:14:40 am »
Oh and by the way, here is his book:http://www.faithfreedom.org/understanding-muhammad-free-download/.

Online TruthExposer777

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 11:25:26 am »

Oh and by the way, here is his book:http://www.faithfreedom.org/understanding-muhammad-free-download/.

Offline Syedsamad

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 12:37:22 pm »
His book has been thoroughly refuted here
https://issuu.com/islamophobiadebunked/docs/alisinabookreview
Enjoy he even wrote an article regarding this book but wasn't able to do so all he did was not to discuss about the book

Offline Syedsamad

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 12:41:33 pm »
If you wish you can write a refutation of his book taking help from this book

Offline muslimforever2012

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2017, 03:59:02 am »
Sorry TruthExposer777, here's the book:schnellmann.org/http___www.faithfreedom.org_book.pdf

Offline muslimforever2012

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2017, 03:59:57 am »
Thanks SyedSamad for the book!

Offline Dr Tazeen

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2017, 05:29:07 am »
Brother Muslim, please mention the ahadees or verses telling so... you must be quoting about symptoms.... there would be a reply section at the end of link 1

Offline muslimforever2012

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2017, 05:54:21 am »
Dr Tazeen.

Quoted from Ali Sina:
Rape
Muhammad allowed his men to rape the women captured in raids. However,
Muslims faced a dilemma. They wanted to have sex with their female captives, but
also wanted to return them for ransom and therefore did not want to make them
pregnant. Some of these women were already married whose husbands had escaped
when taken by surprise and were still alive. The raiders considered the possibility
of coitus interruptus (withdrawing from intercourse before ejaculation). Unsure of
the best course of action, they sought the counsel of their Prophet. Bukhari reports:

Abu Saeed said: ‘We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu AlMustaliq
and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired
women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So
when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus
before asking Allah's Apostle who is present among us?’ We asked (him) about it and
he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is
predestined to exist, it will exist. (Bukhari, Volume 5, Book59, Number 459)

Muhammad did not forbid raping the captive women. Instead, he made an
asinine claim that when Allah intends to create someone, nothing can prevent it. He
told his men that coitus interruptus is ill-advised because it would be an attempt to
thwart the will of Allah. He did not say a word against rape of the captives, and by
discouraging coitus interruptus, he supported forced insemination.
He made even his god to legitimize intercourse with women captured in wars,
the so-called “right hand possessions,” even if they were married before their capture''.

End of quote.

While website 1. says:

1.Rapist:

DEFINITION:

the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.

THE FACT:

1.No Quranic verse or Hadees suggests that it ever happened.
2.The teachings of Quran and Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.w actually deny any concept of rape or even marital rape.
O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them – perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.(4:19)
.
But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess – then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.(24:33)

But still, I will work to refute them. Thanks for helping!


Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2017, 08:41:27 am »
Aww the old coitus Interruptus myth,dang didn't know that still existed, Well let's just be thankful Ali Sina isn't a Atheist, or else he would be the like of firaun calling himself,a Human a God(astaghfirullah) believe it or not I have met Atheists like that.

Online TruthExposer777

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2017, 11:19:33 am »
Book debunked: https://www.bismikaallahuma.org/book-reviews/ali-sina-understanding-muhammad-psychobiography/
Sorry TruthExposer777, here's the book:schnellmann.org/http___www.faithfreedom.org_book.pdf

Offline Albarra

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2017, 08:28:10 am »
Hmmm, I guess Ali Sina doesn't know much about "coitus interruptus". Coitus interruptus is an old birth control's technique for intercourse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus

Now, people can use a condom, pill, or other modern birth control.

Here are several hadith that rape is strictly forbidden.

And Safiyya bint 'Ubaid said:
"A governmental male-slave tried to seduce a slave-girl from the Khumus of the war booty till he deflowered her by force against her will; therefore 'Umar flogged him according to the law, and exiled him, but he did not flog the female slave because the male-slave had committed illegal sexual intercourse by force, against her will." Az-Zuhri said regarding a virgin slave-girl raped by a free man: The judge has to fine the adulterer as much money as is equal to the price of the female slave and the adulterer has to be flogged (according to the Islamic Law); but if the slave woman is a matron, then, according to the verdict of the Imam, the adulterer is not fined but he has to receive the legal punishment (according to the Islamic Law).
Sahih al-Bukhari Vol. 9, Book 89, Hadith 81

Jabir reported that 'Abdullah b. Ubayy b. Salul had two slave-girls;
one was called Musaika and the other one was called Umaima and he compelled them to prostitution (for which'Abdullah b. Ubayy b. Salul compelled them). They made a complaint about this to Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) and it was upon this that this verse was revealed:" And compel not your slave-girls to prostitute" up to the words:" Allah is Forgiving
Sahih Muslim Vol. 7, Book 43, Hadith 7181

Jabir ibn Abdullah : Musaykah, a slave-girl of some Ansari, came and said: My master forces me to commit fornication. Thereupon the following verse was revealed: "But force not your maids to prostitution (when they desire chastity)."
Abu Dawud Book 6, Hadith 2304.

"Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess (female slaves): For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;-" (4:36)

Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case I advise you to help them.
Bukhari, Iman, 22; Adab, 44; Muslim, Iman, 38–40; Abu Dawud, Adab, 124

Sallam ibn 'Amr reported from one of the Companions of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Your slaves are your brothers, so treat him well. Ask for their help in what is too much for you and help them in what is too much for them."
Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 190.

Abu Mas'ud al-Badri reported: "I was beating my slave with a whip when I heard a voice behind me: Understand, Abu Masud; but I did not recognise the voice due to intense anger. He (Abu Mas'ud) reported: As he came near me (I found) that he was the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he was saying: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; bear in mind. Abu Mas'ud. He (Aba Maslad) said: threw the whip from my hand. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; verily Allah has more dominance upon you than you have upon your slave. I (then) said: I would never beat my servant in future.
Sahih Muslim Book 15, Number 4086

“O you men! We have created you of a male and a female, and then We made you (into different) races and tribes so that you may know (and “recognise) each other. Surely the most honourable of you with Allah is the one who is most pious among you; surely Allah is All-Knowing and “Aware.” The Qur'an 49:13

What the early classical scholars said about rape for slavery?

Imam Malik said:
In our view the man who rapes a woman, regardless of whether she is a virgin or not, if she is a free woman he must pay a "dowry" like that of her peers, and if she is a slave he must pay whatever has been detracted from her value. The punishment is to be carried out on the rapist and there is no punishment for the woman who has been raped, whatever the case.  (Imam Maalik, Al-Muwatta', Volume 2, page 734)

Malik related to me from Ibn Shihab that Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan (5th Caliph) gave a judgement that the rapist had to pay the raped woman her bride- price. Yahya said that he heard Malik say, “What is done in our community about the man who rapes a woman, virgin or non-virgin, if she is free, is that he must pay the bride-price of the like of her. If she is a slave, he must pay what he has diminished of her worth. The hadd-punishment in such cases is applied to the rapist, and there is no punishment applied to the raped woman.” (Muwatta Imam Malik Judgements: Book 36, Hadith 14)


Imam Al Shaafi’I said:
"If a man acquires by force a slave-girl, then has sexual intercourse with her after he acquires her by force, and if he is not excused by ignorance, then the slave-girl will be taken from him, he is required to pay the fine, and he will receive the punishment for illegal sexual intercourse." (Imam Al Shaafi'i, Kitaabul Umm, Volume 3, page 253)



Hope this helps








 

Offline Dr Tazeen

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2017, 08:30:38 am »
so allowing coitus interruptus needs further elaboration?

It was not rape at all,as claimed by alisina, because

A.

1.sex slavery was common in preislamic times.
2.It is allowed in Christianity and judaism so the people were fully aware of it.

the law allows male soldiers to rape foreign captive woman (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

A text about prostitution and the frequenting of prostitutes by Jewish men allows that it is “Better that a man secretly transgress and not publicly profane God’s name so that no one learns from his actions” and that “If a man sees that his [evil] inclination [yetzer or urge] overwhelms him, he should go to a place where he is unknown, wear black clothing and cover himself with black [perhaps to subdue his lust], and do what his heart desires, so that he does not publicly profane God’s name” (B. Kiddushin 40a).

3.Any woman who knows that if she goes to the battlefield and she would be taken as prisoner of war,she could meet such consequences.

So it was all implied consent.

when the female knowing the consequences,even that prescribed in her own religion, goes to the battlefield and then she is taken as prisoner of war,meets the same or better consequences, then it is NOT rape according to the definition.

There is IMPLIED CONSENT.

B.

Secondly,rape is all about losing control,not controlling himself.Coitus interruptus means controlling themselves as against the nature of rape.