Author Topic: Ali Sina's book needs refutation  (Read 10597 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« on: April 28, 2017, 09:29:46 AM »
Assalamu Alaikum

I was trying to debate with Ali Sina last month but he gave me his book and told me to try to refute his proof. He abruptly ended the debate because he thought I would leave Islam if I read his book but I didn't. So would anyone be kind enough to help me refute this fool? His book's name is ''Understanding Muhammad and Muslims''. I want to attach it but I don't know how.

Thanks. 

Offline TruthExposer777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2017, 10:18:58 AM »
Assalamu Alaikum

I was trying to debate with Ali Sina last month but he gave me his book and told me to try to refute his proof. He abruptly ended the debate because he thought I would leave Islam if I read his book but I didn't. So would anyone be kind enough to help me refute this fool? His book's name is ''Understanding Muhammad and Muslims''. I want to attach it but I don't know how.

Thanks. 
https://rebuttaltounderstandingmuhammad.wordpress.com/
http://www.answering-christianity.com/faithfreedom_rebuttals.htm
https://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 11:12:21 AM »
Thanks for replying, but I have a problem. I went to the websites:
1. https://rebuttaltounderstandingmuhammad.wordpress.com/
2. http://www.answering-christianity.com/faithfreedom_rebuttals.htm
3. https://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

Website 1. had articles refuting the charges against Muhammad, but some of them said that there was no Hadith or verse to support the claim, even though it did.

I read website 2., but I was interested in debating with Ali Sina over this:http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge-2/, which will defeat him forever.

Website 3. is the same thing as website 2.

Please don't take this as an insult, but I still need help.

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 11:14:40 AM »
Oh and by the way, here is his book:http://www.faithfreedom.org/understanding-muhammad-free-download/.

Offline TruthExposer777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 11:25:26 AM »

Oh and by the way, here is his book:http://www.faithfreedom.org/understanding-muhammad-free-download/.

Offline Syedsamad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 12:37:22 PM »
His book has been thoroughly refuted here
https://issuu.com/islamophobiadebunked/docs/alisinabookreview
Enjoy he even wrote an article regarding this book but wasn't able to do so all he did was not to discuss about the book

Offline Syedsamad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 12:41:33 PM »
If you wish you can write a refutation of his book taking help from this book

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2017, 03:59:02 AM »
Sorry TruthExposer777, here's the book:schnellmann.org/http___www.faithfreedom.org_book.pdf

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2017, 03:59:57 AM »
Thanks SyedSamad for the book!

Offline Dr Tazeen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2017, 05:29:07 AM »
Brother Muslim, please mention the ahadees or verses telling so... you must be quoting about symptoms.... there would be a reply section at the end of link 1

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2017, 05:54:21 AM »
Dr Tazeen.

Quoted from Ali Sina:
Rape
Muhammad allowed his men to rape the women captured in raids. However,
Muslims faced a dilemma. They wanted to have sex with their female captives, but
also wanted to return them for ransom and therefore did not want to make them
pregnant. Some of these women were already married whose husbands had escaped
when taken by surprise and were still alive. The raiders considered the possibility
of coitus interruptus (withdrawing from intercourse before ejaculation). Unsure of
the best course of action, they sought the counsel of their Prophet. Bukhari reports:

Abu Saeed said: ‘We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu AlMustaliq
and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired
women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So
when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus
before asking Allah's Apostle who is present among us?’ We asked (him) about it and
he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is
predestined to exist, it will exist. (Bukhari, Volume 5, Book59, Number 459)

Muhammad did not forbid raping the captive women. Instead, he made an
asinine claim that when Allah intends to create someone, nothing can prevent it. He
told his men that coitus interruptus is ill-advised because it would be an attempt to
thwart the will of Allah. He did not say a word against rape of the captives, and by
discouraging coitus interruptus, he supported forced insemination.
He made even his god to legitimize intercourse with women captured in wars,
the so-called “right hand possessions,” even if they were married before their capture''.

End of quote.

While website 1. says:

1.Rapist:

DEFINITION:

the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.

THE FACT:

1.No Quranic verse or Hadees suggests that it ever happened.
2.The teachings of Quran and Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.w actually deny any concept of rape or even marital rape.
O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them – perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.(4:19)
.
But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess – then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.(24:33)

But still, I will work to refute them. Thanks for helping!


Offline AMuslimDude213

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2017, 08:41:27 AM »
Aww the old coitus Interruptus myth,dang didn't know that still existed, Well let's just be thankful Ali Sina isn't a Atheist, or else he would be the like of firaun calling himself,a Human a God(astaghfirullah) believe it or not I have met Atheists like that.

Offline TruthExposer777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2017, 11:19:33 AM »
Book debunked: https://www.bismikaallahuma.org/book-reviews/ali-sina-understanding-muhammad-psychobiography/
Sorry TruthExposer777, here's the book:schnellmann.org/http___www.faithfreedom.org_book.pdf

Offline Albarra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2017, 08:28:10 AM »
Hmmm, I guess Ali Sina doesn't know much about "coitus interruptus". Coitus interruptus is an old birth control's technique for intercourse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coitus_interruptus

Now, people can use a condom, pill, or other modern birth control.

Here are several hadith that rape is strictly forbidden.

And Safiyya bint 'Ubaid said:
"A governmental male-slave tried to seduce a slave-girl from the Khumus of the war booty till he deflowered her by force against her will; therefore 'Umar flogged him according to the law, and exiled him, but he did not flog the female slave because the male-slave had committed illegal sexual intercourse by force, against her will." Az-Zuhri said regarding a virgin slave-girl raped by a free man: The judge has to fine the adulterer as much money as is equal to the price of the female slave and the adulterer has to be flogged (according to the Islamic Law); but if the slave woman is a matron, then, according to the verdict of the Imam, the adulterer is not fined but he has to receive the legal punishment (according to the Islamic Law).
Sahih al-Bukhari Vol. 9, Book 89, Hadith 81

Jabir reported that 'Abdullah b. Ubayy b. Salul had two slave-girls;
one was called Musaika and the other one was called Umaima and he compelled them to prostitution (for which'Abdullah b. Ubayy b. Salul compelled them). They made a complaint about this to Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) and it was upon this that this verse was revealed:" And compel not your slave-girls to prostitute" up to the words:" Allah is Forgiving
Sahih Muslim Vol. 7, Book 43, Hadith 7181

Jabir ibn Abdullah : Musaykah, a slave-girl of some Ansari, came and said: My master forces me to commit fornication. Thereupon the following verse was revealed: "But force not your maids to prostitution (when they desire chastity)."
Abu Dawud Book 6, Hadith 2304.

"Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess (female slaves): For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;-" (4:36)

Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case I advise you to help them.
Bukhari, Iman, 22; Adab, 44; Muslim, Iman, 38–40; Abu Dawud, Adab, 124

Sallam ibn 'Amr reported from one of the Companions of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Your slaves are your brothers, so treat him well. Ask for their help in what is too much for you and help them in what is too much for them."
Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 190.

Abu Mas'ud al-Badri reported: "I was beating my slave with a whip when I heard a voice behind me: Understand, Abu Masud; but I did not recognise the voice due to intense anger. He (Abu Mas'ud) reported: As he came near me (I found) that he was the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he was saying: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; bear in mind. Abu Mas'ud. He (Aba Maslad) said: threw the whip from my hand. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; verily Allah has more dominance upon you than you have upon your slave. I (then) said: I would never beat my servant in future.
Sahih Muslim Book 15, Number 4086

“O you men! We have created you of a male and a female, and then We made you (into different) races and tribes so that you may know (and “recognise) each other. Surely the most honourable of you with Allah is the one who is most pious among you; surely Allah is All-Knowing and “Aware.” The Qur'an 49:13

What the early classical scholars said about rape for slavery?

Imam Malik said:
In our view the man who rapes a woman, regardless of whether she is a virgin or not, if she is a free woman he must pay a "dowry" like that of her peers, and if she is a slave he must pay whatever has been detracted from her value. The punishment is to be carried out on the rapist and there is no punishment for the woman who has been raped, whatever the case.  (Imam Maalik, Al-Muwatta', Volume 2, page 734)

Malik related to me from Ibn Shihab that Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan (5th Caliph) gave a judgement that the rapist had to pay the raped woman her bride- price. Yahya said that he heard Malik say, “What is done in our community about the man who rapes a woman, virgin or non-virgin, if she is free, is that he must pay the bride-price of the like of her. If she is a slave, he must pay what he has diminished of her worth. The hadd-punishment in such cases is applied to the rapist, and there is no punishment applied to the raped woman.” (Muwatta Imam Malik Judgements: Book 36, Hadith 14)


Imam Al Shaafi’I said:
"If a man acquires by force a slave-girl, then has sexual intercourse with her after he acquires her by force, and if he is not excused by ignorance, then the slave-girl will be taken from him, he is required to pay the fine, and he will receive the punishment for illegal sexual intercourse." (Imam Al Shaafi'i, Kitaabul Umm, Volume 3, page 253)



Hope this helps








 

Offline Dr Tazeen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2017, 08:30:38 AM »
so allowing coitus interruptus needs further elaboration?

It was not rape at all,as claimed by alisina, because

A.

1.sex slavery was common in preislamic times.
2.It is allowed in Christianity and judaism so the people were fully aware of it.

the law allows male soldiers to rape foreign captive woman (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

A text about prostitution and the frequenting of prostitutes by Jewish men allows that it is “Better that a man secretly transgress and not publicly profane God’s name so that no one learns from his actions” and that “If a man sees that his [evil] inclination [yetzer or urge] overwhelms him, he should go to a place where he is unknown, wear black clothing and cover himself with black [perhaps to subdue his lust], and do what his heart desires, so that he does not publicly profane God’s name” (B. Kiddushin 40a).

3.Any woman who knows that if she goes to the battlefield and she would be taken as prisoner of war,she could meet such consequences.

So it was all implied consent.

when the female knowing the consequences,even that prescribed in her own religion, goes to the battlefield and then she is taken as prisoner of war,meets the same or better consequences, then it is NOT rape according to the definition.

There is IMPLIED CONSENT.

B.

Secondly,rape is all about losing control,not controlling himself.Coitus interruptus means controlling themselves as against the nature of rape.








Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2017, 03:33:43 AM »
Thank you! I'm currently working on a book refuting Ali Sina and his challenge. I will inform you when it is finished.

Offline Albarra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2017, 06:26:39 AM »
Thank you! I'm currently working on a book refuting Ali Sina and his challenge. I will inform you when it is finished.

Excellent!
And don't forget to check my post. I provided several evidence that rape is strictly forbidden.

Peace,
Albarra




Offline Syedsamad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2017, 06:32:19 AM »
Thank you! I'm currently working on a book refuting Ali Sina and his challenge. I will inform you when it is finished.
Great just try to make it fully detailed :)

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2017, 03:18:44 AM »
OK, I refuted narcissism easily, but I'm facing a problem with misogyny. The book quoted Bukhari 9.88.219,''When Muhammad heard the news that Persians had made the daughter of
Khosrau their Queen, he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman
their ruler."  and it also said, ''Muhammad said women are deficient in intelligence and their testimony should
not be trusted because their brain does not work properly (they forget). The Quran
4:34 makes women eternally subservient to men and says Allah has made men excel
over women, and women should be obedient to men. The Quran 2:228 says that
women have some rights but men have a degree of advantage over them.

Offline Albarra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2017, 11:23:44 AM »
An examining of 4:34 in the Quran, please visit:
https://discover-the-truth.com/2017/02/03/a-historical-analysis-of-the-beat-verse-quran-434/


Regarding to deficient in women's intelligence, please visit:

http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2009/06/why-hadith-says-that-women-are.html

http://islamiat101.blogspot.com/2012/10/are-woman-deficient-in-intelligence-and.html

and
http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/Rebuttal_to_Wiki_Islam_on___Are_Women_Deficient_in_Intelligence__.htm


If women are deficient, then why Muhammad (SAWS) urged women to be educated?



Scientific fact: Generally, women are less intelligent than men. For instance, men can handle chemical engineering and advanced math for software and hardware. In fact, all U.S. Presidents are male. All Russian Presidents are male. All French Presidents are male etc etc.

Here is the link for top 25 highest paying occupations by gender shares of employment.
https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/25highest_paying_occs_gen_share_emp_2014_txt.htm
 

25 lowest paying occupations by gender shares of employment.
https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/25Lowest_paying_occs_women_gender_share_emp_2014_txt.htm



Hope this helps

Peace,
Albarra


Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2017, 04:58:06 AM »
OK. So I tried to make the book in AbiWord but it didn't look good. So I am making the book in Google Docs. I just wanted to show you the preview of the book to see if it is good.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=16PjRRInxzJuWWxkHHqqfTWZ7sW6wDTp2fGoDG0N6VEk.

Thanks.

Offline Syedsamad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2017, 05:11:08 AM »
Great, make sure you do refute some more of his childish claims other than his 10 allegations mentioned in his book

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2017, 05:30:13 AM »
Wait here's a better view for everyone else.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzWbzcKrUFb0b1lGRG96Vnpaa0U/view

Offline adilriaz123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2017, 06:06:32 AM »
Asalam ul laykum brothers and sisters, in regards to the claims of raping. i have not yet looked at the whatever reference that Ali Sina has provided. direct me to it, but anyways. THe only instance that I know of anti-islamists use against prophet muhammad pbuh is this:

It has been narrated on the authority of Salama (b. al-Akwa') who said: We fought against the Fazara and Abu Bakr was the commander over us. He had been appointed by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). When we were only at an hour's distance from the water of the enemy, Abu Bakr ordered us to attack. We made a halt during the last part of the night to rest and then we attacked from all sides and reached their watering-place where a battle was fought. Some of the enemies were killed and some were taken prisoners. I saw a group of persons that consisted of women and children. I was afraid lest they should reach the mountain before me, so I shot an arrow between them and the mountain. When they saw the arrow, they stopped. So I brought them, driving them along. Among them was a woman from Banu Fazara. She was wearing a leather coat. With her was her daughter who was one of the prettiest girls in Arabia. I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: Give me that girl, O Salama. I said: Messenger of Allah, she has fascinated me. I had not yet disrobed her. When on the next day, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) again met me in the street, he said: O Salama, give me that girl, may God bless your father. I said: She is for you. Messenger of Allah ! By Allah. I have not yet disrobed her. (Sahih Muslim 4345)

above is an intentional and melacious referencing, due to the important fact, that it those who quote it, cut it short take a look:

It has been narrated on the authority of Salama (b. al-Akwa') who said: We fought against the Fazara and Abu Bakr was the commander over us. He had been appointed by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). When we were only at an hour's distance from the water of the enemy, Abu Bakr ordered us to attack. We made a halt during the last part of the night to rest and then we attacked from all sides and reached their watering-place where a battle was fought. Some of the enemies were killed and some were taken prisoners. I saw a group of persons that consisted of women and children. I was afraid lest they should reach the mountain before me, so I shot an arrow between them and the mountain. When they saw the arrow, they stopped. So I brought them, driving them along. Among them was a woman from Banu Fazara. She was wearing a leather coat. With her was her daughter who was one of the prettiest girls in Arabia. I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: Give me that girl, O Salama. I said: Messenger of Allah, she has fascinated me. I had not yet disrobed her. When on the next day, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) again met me in the street, he said: O Salama, give me that girl, may God bless your father. I said: She is for you. Messenger of Allah ! By Allah. I have not yet disrobed her. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent her to the people of Mecca, and surrendered her as ransom for a number of Muslims who had been kept as prisoners at Mecca.


this far as i know is the only thing in regards to rape that anti-islamists claim, and it is debunked by the entire text.

jazakallah'

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2017, 06:18:14 AM »
Thanks adilriaz123. The reference of raping that Sina has used is that he claimed that the Muslims did not use coitus interuptus while having sex with the female prisoners of war and so he claimed that they commited ''forced insemination''. This was blamed on Muhammad because a Muslim asked about this and he replied,  'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is
predestined to exist, it will exist.

Offline Albarra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2017, 04:48:01 PM »
muslimforever2012,

I disagree your statement.

Please check my comment that rape is strictly forbidden for slavery in Islam.

Muhammad (phub) actually approved coitus interruptus for slave girls.

Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported that a man came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and said:

I have a slave-girl who is our servant and she carries water for us and I have intercourse with her, but I do not want her to conceive. He said: Practise 'azl, if you so like, but what is decreed for her will come to her. The person stayed back (for some time) and then came and said: The girl has become pregnant, whereupon he said: I told you what was decreed for her would come to her.
Sahih Muslim Book 8, Hadith 3383


Jabir b. 'Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) reported that a person asked Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) saying:

I have a slave-girl and I practise 'azl with her, whereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: This cannot prevent that which Allah has decreed. The person then came (after some time) and said: Messenger of Allah, the slave-girl about whom I talked to you has conceived, whereupon Allah's Messeuger (ﷺ) said: I am the servant of Allah and His Messenger.
Sahih Muslim Book 8, Hadith 3384

So, Muslim men can use azl (coitus interruptus) to have sex with female slaves. No problem. Muhammad (phub) just personally did not like azl because he loved children, but that doesn't mean that azl is forbidden for slavery.

Again, please check my comment on this webpage.
 

And Allah knows best.



Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2017, 06:58:40 AM »
Thanks again, Albarra!

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2017, 07:30:17 AM »
OK I am nearly finished in refuting the charges but I am stuck in one thing. Can you help me in refuting
 
OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE DISORDER (OCD)
SCHIZOPHRENIA
PARANOID PERSONALITY DISORDER
BIPOLAR DISORDER

sorry for the caps I copy pasted.

Offline Albarra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2017, 08:51:35 AM »
OK I am nearly finished in refuting the charges but I am stuck in one thing. Can you help me in refuting
 
OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE DISORDER (OCD)
SCHIZOPHRENIA
PARANOID PERSONALITY DISORDER
BIPOLAR DISORDER

sorry for the caps I copy pasted.

What? I don't get it. Does Islam mention about disorders?

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2017, 11:10:00 AM »
OK I am nearly finished in refuting the charges but I am stuck in one thing. Can you help me in refuting
 
OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE DISORDER (OCD)
SCHIZOPHRENIA
PARANOID PERSONALITY DISORDER
BIPOLAR DISORDER

sorry for the caps I copy pasted.

What? I don't get it. Does Islam mention about disorders?

Sorry forgot to clarify. Sina accused Muhammad of having these disorders. I can show you his ''evidence'' if you want.

Offline Albarra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2017, 03:51:00 PM »
muslimforever2012,

Yes, show me please.

Offline AhmadFarooq

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2017, 07:09:08 PM »
Having Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) isn't exactly a damaging accusation. Millions of people in the world have it. Around 1% of the population are found to be going through this disorder. In most cases, OCD makes life difficult only for the person suffering from it and have absolutely no effect on the people that surround him. It requires discipline and is a credit to the person who can live normally while suffering from OCD.

Regarding "Generally, women are less intelligent than men".
This is not a scientific fact. Many studies have been done on the subject and there have consistently been variable results. Some had men at higher intelligence while some had women. Some later studies, however, saw no significant difference. One consistent difference has been that men have better spatial abilities and women have better spatial memory. Another has been the observation that men have more variability, i.e. more men are found to be at the top and bottom of the charts, while women remain more in the middle.

Details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligence

What exactly does intelligence have to do with being president? Can you honestly regard a post that Donald Trump now occupies as an indication of high intelligence? Becoming president requires better political opportunities and women have historically, for whatever reason, not been able to gain them.

Similarly, being involved in higher paying jobs is also not proof of which gender is more intelligent. A significant reason that men end up in higher paying jobs is that women much more often choose their families over their work while men are more likely to prefer their careers and paying opportunities over their families.

Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/women-more-often-choose-family-over-work/433029/

Additionally, if I remember a source correctly, women prefer to work in jobs which involve interaction with other people (like nursing, waitresses, hostesses) which usually pay less. On the other hand, men prefer work involving high involvement of machines (like engineering jobs) which happen to be generally better paying.

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2017, 05:25:00 AM »
muslimforever2012,

Yes, show me please.

OK.

Sina quotes the definition of OCD:

''Collectively, these disorders are among the most common of mental health problems.
It is estimated that 1 in 10 people suffers from an anxiety disorder sometime in their
life… For people with obsessive-compulsive disorder, obsession creates a maze of
persistent thoughts. Those thoughts lead them to act out rituals (compulsions),
sometimes for hours a day… Worries and doubts, superstitions and rituals are
common to most everyone. OCD occurs when worries become obsessions and the
compulsive rituals so excessive that they dominate a person's life. It’s as if the brain
is a scratched vinyl record, forever skipping at the same groove and repeating one
fragment of song.
Obsessions are persistent ideas, thoughts, impulses or images; they are intrusive and
illogical. Common OCD obsessions revolve around contamination, doubts, and
disturbing sexual or religious thoughts… Often, a person's obsessions are
accompanied by feelings of fear, disgust and doubt, or the belief that certain activities
have to be done just so… People with OCD try to relieve their obsessions by
performing compulsive rituals, over and over again, and often according to certain
"rules."

Then Sina says:

Muhammad’s obsession with rituals can only be understood through Obsessive
Compulsive Disorder. OCD sufferers are obsessed with patterns, rituals, and
numbers. Mohammad was fixated with number three. There are many rituals that
Muslims are required to perform three times. There is no logical explanation for it
except for the fact that it is a sunnah (tradition) of Muhammad. The following are
the rituals that the believer must perform before praying:
 Declare the intention that the act is for the purpose of worship.
 Rinse out the mouth with water three times
 Cleanse the nostrils by sniffing water in to them three times.
 Wash the whole face three times.
 Wash the right arm three times up to the far end of the elbow and then do the
same with the left arm.
 Wipe the whole head or any part of it with a wet hand once.
 Wipe the inner sides of the ears with the forefingers and their outer sides with
the thumbs. This should be done with wet fingers.
Wipe around the neck with wet hands.
 Wash the two feet up to the ankles three times beginning with the right foot.

End of quote.

Then Sina goes on to explain the rituals of Tayammum and the sunnah of eating.

Offline AhmadFarooq

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2017, 06:37:08 AM »
First of all just because a person might suffer some obsessions related to OCD, does not mean that he suffers from all of them. If a person feels obsessively compelled to wash again and again it does not naturally conclude that he also suffers from "disturbing sexual or religious thoughts" or "feelings of fear, disgust and doubt". If what you have mentioned above is all the evidence that Sina has put up regarding OCD, then it becomes easy to prove that Sina is trying to prove Prophet Muhammad being obsessed with remaining clean or washing (which has hardly anything wrong with it) and very maliciously and fallaciously link that to "disturbing sexual or religious thoughts".

Furthermore, if the entirety of the "proof" of Prophet Muhammad's alleged OCD consists only of "washing three times" then this accusation is pretty much easily refuted. The fact is that, washing three times in ablution is not obligatory. It is the recommended approach but not compulsory.

"Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The Muslims are unanimously agreed that what is obligatory is to wash each part once, and that washing each part three times is Sunnah."

What is really damning evidence against the OCD allegation is that according to the recorded narrations Prophet Muhammad varied the number of times he washed each part.

"There are saheeh ahaadeeth which mention washing each part once, and each part three times, and washing some parts three times, some two times and some once."

This variation, depending on the severity of the disorder, is hell for a person suffering from OCD. A lot of times it is extremely disturbing, if not entirely impossible, for an OCD person to vary their routines. This causes much frustration in the person and in some cases such persons might even feel like losing their sanity. Such variation is very solid evidence supporting the fact that the person does not suffer from OCD, at least not presently.

Reference source: https://islamqa.info/en/72450

Offline AhmadFarooq

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2017, 07:09:14 AM »
Furthermore:

- "... or the belief that certain activities have to be done just so..."

This part of the definition of OCD combined with the recorded narrations regarding how the Prophet varied his ablution is quite strong evidence against the OCD claim. In a way, Sina himself provided the means to disprove his own allegations.

- "... was fixated with number three."

And yet only one of the five daily prayers involve three units. Not to mention the fact that the most repeated activity of the Salat, the Sajdah (prostration) is done in groups of two.

"There are many rituals that Muslims are required to perform three times."

Obviously, not as many as Sina thinks. By-the-way are there any "rituals that Muslims are required to perform three times"?

- "There is no logical explanation for it..."

Well, apparently not any that Sina would understand, or would want to understand. Washing three times naturally ensures better and more reliable cleaning.

- "Declare the intention that the act is for the purpose of worship."

Yes, positively deciding or making up your mind to perform some action, how very obsessively compulsive of a person!

- "Wipe the whole head or any part of it with a wet hand once. Wipe the inner sides of the ears ... Wipe around the neck with wet hands."

Apparently, Sina was unaware of the non-obligatory custom of washing each of these parts three times too.

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2017, 05:28:17 AM »
Thanks AhmadFarooq.

As for the ''evidence'' of schizophrenia, here it is:

''Schizophrenia is the disease of thought disorder of inappropriate emotions and
of inappropriate attribution of things. It is a disease of cognitive abnormalities and
abnormal sequential thoughts.
Auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech
and thinking are some of the symptoms of Schizophrenia. There are also signs of
and symptoms associated with impaired occupational or social function. The
symptoms typically occur in young adulthood and last a lifetime.''

Apart from one trip Muhammad made to Syria as the amin (trustee) of
Khadijah, he did not engage in any occupation. He was also withdrawn and used to spend his days in a cave alone. This satisfies the criterion of impaired occupational
and social function. Prior to his prophetic enterprise, Muhammad was a loner. His
only occupation before marrying Khadijah was herding family goats, where
interaction with others was kept to minimum. At one point, when he tried to act like
a normal youth and sneaked into a wedding party, he felt dizzy and was weighed
down by excruciating spasms.

As per above, the story of magic being worked out on Muhammad making him
believe he had sexual intercourse with his wives when he did not, and his claim that
he saw two men standing over him and discussing his condition as narrated by
Aisha (quoted in the previous chapter), are enough to diagnose Muhammad with
Schizophrenia. Another clue to his delusional thinking is his claim that two men in
white threw him on the ground, pulled out his heart and after washing it with snow
replaced it without leaving any scar.

End of quote.

I tried looking everywhere for ways to debunk this, but I couldn't.

Offline Sama

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2017, 06:17:12 AM »
Salam alaikum
One cause of visual,auditory or command hallucinations is Schizophrenia but logically the man of a balanced ,leading and victorious personality could not be a schizophrenic.
Diagnostic Criteria of schizophrenia:
https://rebuttaltounderstandingmuhammad.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/refuting-hallucinations-and-seizures/

Offline Sama

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2017, 06:49:45 AM »
 Could it not have been that Muhammad(pbuh) suffered from Schizophrenia and that the feeling of revelations was but a symptom of that disorder? In fact, was he not called a madman by his contemporaries?

It has been the most important allegation of the rationalists that prophet Muhammad(pbuh) suffered from Schizophrenia. For, as far as those who will not recognize the existence of God are concerned, no matter how often the truth of revelation is reiterated to them, they will never ever appreciate it. It is for this reason that any discussion with the atheist must, necessarily, begin with the issue of the existence of God. How, indeed, can a people, who reject the very existence of the Lord Creator himself, be made to accept the truthfulness of a revelation that proceeds from Him ?

With regard to the question posed here, however, it is its second part that must actually be dealt with first. Was Muhammad(pbuh) called a madman by his contemporaries? If so, then what were the symptoms of madness, which he exhibited, on the basis of which they had made this allegation?

Upto the age of forty, Muhammad(pbuh) had been the owner of a personality that was truthful in its disposition and accepted by all in society. In this long period of time none had ever, in any way, attributed to him the state of lunacy. It is, however, true that after prophethood he had been subject to the allegation of being a madman. But significantly enough, it was not just a madman that Muhammad(pbuh) was called. Indeed, he had been abused with the allegations of being a sorcerer, a magician, one affected by witchcraft, a poet and the like. Was it because of a marked and obvious difference in his personality, or mental disposition, that they abused him as being such ? That this was, indeed, the case, was never advocated by any of them. Their problem had been the Qur'an and the ideas which it contained. Muhammad(pbuh) had spoken out against their traditional beliefs. Moreover, because he had called it Divine, people were fast being attracted to the Qur'an which he now recited to them.All these allegations against him were but the deliberate fabrications of the guardians of the traditional religion who now realized that they had to resort to his character assasination if they were to isolate him from the people.

The time when Muhammad(pbuh) had publicly declared his prophethood; the time of the Hajj was at hand. The leaders of Mecca greatly feared that Muhammad(pbuh) would propagate his religion among the people who would come from all the different parts of Arabia and that they would be attracted by the Qur'an. Forthwith did they convene a meeting. It was then decided that they would first meet with those who arrived for the Hajj and unleash a propaganda against Muhammad(pbuh). The next discussion centered on the question as to how Muhammad(pbuh) was to be described. That each should give a different description would be an affront to their own credibility. What, then, would be the allegation that may be made in common between them? Some said, "Let us say that Muhammad(pbuh) is a soothsayer." To this, Waleed bin Mugheera, a prominent tribal chief retorted, "That can never be. For, by Allah, he is not a soothsayer and we have seen soothsayers. Muhammad’s words are not the prophecies of soothsayers." Yet others said, "We shall say that he is a madman." Then said Waleed, "He is not a madman. We have seen madmen and he has nothing either of their mad talk or of their antics and devilish tendencies." At this, they said, "Then, in that case, let us say that he is a poet." But Waleed countered, "He is no poet. For we are aware of all the types of poetry and, for a surety, it is not poetry that he uttereth." The people then said, " Let us say, then, that he is a sorcerer." But Waleed retorted once again, "He is no sorcerer and he uses neither their knots nor their lutes."

"Then what is it that you propose?" they demanded. He then declared, "Verily, there is a particular sweetness in his words. Its value is expansive, even as fruit-laden are its branches. For a certainty, all that you may utter against him will, in time, prove to be meaningless and futile. It is, therefore, suitable that he be described as a magician who is out to disrupt the ties between father and children, husband and wife as well as between the older and the younger brother!" Accept this the people did. They started, also, the propagation likewise.

What is it that this incident gives us to understand? The allegation that he was a madman was but one among the other false propaganda fabricated by his enemies to alienate the people from the guidance of the prophet. In fact, the very people who spread this misconception themselves never believed in it. It is for this same reason, therefore, that to accept as evidence their allegation will be to do that which will amount to rank foolishness.

The prophet had lived fourteen centuries ago. As such, to examine whether he did actually suffer from schizophrenia is, as of today, beyond us. It is, however, the revelation and dreams which he experienced that are now upheld as evidences by those who allege that Muhammad(pbuh) had, indeed, been a schizophrenic patient. Moreover, this claim has been put forward by the critics on the basis of the ahadith which describes the nature of the revelation as told by the prophet and the external and physical changes to which the prophet was subjected while in receipt of the divine revelation. However, an impartial enquiry into the subject as to whether the symptoms of a schizophrenic disorder were, indeed, present in the prophet will make it amply clear that this allegation is without any substance, whatsoever.

One : The behavioural patterns of a schizophrenic patient is constantly in a flux. This inconsistency manifests itself in the behaviour displayed while dealing with other people and in one’s conversation as well.

Examine the life and speech of Muhammad(pbuh). We are unable to trace out any contradiction, whatsoever, in his approach or character. If prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was, indeed, the owner of a code of behaviour that constantly shifted as well as of a manner of talking in which there was no relation between his present and past utterances, how was it possible that he did have so many trustworthy and devoted companions?

The companions of Muhammad(pbuh) were never like the followers of the ordinary divines whom we have come to know of today. They were ever engaged in carrying out into practice all that he recommended them to accomplish. Is it believable that a great multitude of people would go on to carry out the bidding of a schizophrenic patient?

Two : The responses of the schizophrenic patient, will also be contradictory. Indeed, such people might burst out crying in times of joy and burst out laughing in times of grief. It is also seen that they cry and laugh for no particular reason.
The responses exhibited by Muhammad (pbuh) were, however, well-balanced. Consider just an incident in this regard. The prophet was once resting himself in the shade of a tree. Suddenly he is confronted by an attacker with a drawn-out sword who asks, "Who will now save thee from myself ?" With firmness came the prophet’s reply, "Allah!" Upon hearing this reply, behind which stood a great, and manifest, conviction, the sword slipped down from the hand of the would-be attacker.

Is it possible to expect such strength of conviction from a schizophrenic patient?

Three : Schizophrenic people are usually introverts. They never take the slightest interest in the happenings of the outside world.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had never been an introvert. Indeed, he was a man who not only viewed with the greatest interest the developments in the world around him, but he also played out his own role were the circumstances prevailing ever to call forth such a necessity. He was, furthermore, a person who had striven not only to provide a moral code to the people, but also to live out a life that would stand as an exemplary model for them to follow.

Lamartine wrote: "Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, the conqueror of ideas, the restorer of the faith, of a cult without images, the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and one spiritual empire - that was Muhammad. As regards all the standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask the question: ‘Is there any man greater that he?" (Historie De la Turquie, vol. 2, page 277)
Is this the evaluative account about an introvert who was also a schizophrenic?

Four : Those who suffer from Schizophrenia can hardly work systematically towards the attainment of any slated objective. Such people, who are unable to accomplish anything of significance, will necessarily be a mentally and physically exhausted lot.
Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) had been the last of the messengers of God who had been sent for the guidance of humanity. He was eminently successful in that he accomplished the very purpose of his mission in a span of time which stretched roughly over two decades. Indeed, Muhammad(pbuh) managed to attract scores of people to the religion of truth by way of a disciplined method of propagation. It had been just all of twenty three years that was required to transform a people who had been nowhere in civilization and culture into a race that became the highest exemplars for the whole world. All those who have analysed history with impartiality have opined that Muhammad(pbuh) was indeed, the person who has most influenced the world.

Will those, who know even a little about the said disorder, ever accept that all this was possible by a schizophrenic patient?

Five : The Schizophrenic patient suffers from delusions as well as hallucinations. These delusion and hallucinations have no semblance or relation with reality.

The critics have attributed Schizophrenia to him by classifyng the revelations and visions which the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) received into this category. We have, however, seen that none of the other symptoms of Schizophrenia were present in the prophet. Then how will it be possible to attribute a schizophrenic disorder to him in the light these revelations alone? The ‘revelations’ to which the schizophrenic patient is subject are but a symptom of the disease. Such revelations will be related and confined only to his own personal domains. But what of the revelations which Muhammad(pbuh) had experienced? Those revelations had served to carve out an ideal community in a step by step fashion. Firstly, it inculcated, in the people, the consciousness about God and of the Hereafter. Through stage after stage, it struck at the very root of the evils that had afflicted the society. In such manner was it, therefore, that the revelations experienced by Muhammad(pbuh) were able to become the very cause behind the creation of an exemplary society. Indeed, the revolution that was wrought stands at the pinnacle of greatness. In the broad sweep of history there has not been another revolution to rival it in any way.

Is it ever possible that the delusions of a schizophrenic patient can serve as the cause of the creation of an exemplary society and of a faultless and incomparable revolution?

It is clear from all this that the allegations that Muhammad(pbuh) was a schizophrenic patient and that it is the delusions which he had heard that form the contents of the Qur'an are merely allegations that do not deserve to be considered in their own right.
http://www.nicheoftruth.org/pages/composition_of_the_quran.htm#Could%20it%20not%20have%20been%20that%20Muhammad(pbuh)%20suffered%20from%20Schizophrenia%20and%20that%20the%C2%A0feeling%20of%20revelations%20was%20but%20a%20symptom%20of%20that%20disorder?%20In%20fact,%20was%20he%20not%20called%C2%A0a%20madman%20by%20his%20contemporaries?

Offline AhmadFarooq

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2017, 09:07:44 AM »
While searching-islam.com remains offline, for the time being, you can make use of https://search.islamwiki.org/ to search most of the online Muslim websites where refutations to such allegations are often times already been published.

Offline Sama

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2017, 10:19:20 AM »
While searching-islam.com remains offline, for the time being, you can make use of https://search.islamwiki.org/ to search most of the online Muslim websites where refutations to such allegations are often times already been published.

Thanks for the link.

I use this one: http://bemuslims.weebly.com/muslims-search-engine.html

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2017, 12:27:34 PM »
Assalamu Alaikum everyone!

I just wanted to inform you that the 11 accusations are finished! Before I continue writing the book and exposing Sina, I want you to see the book so that you can give me suggestions, correcting mistakes,etc. Anyways, here's the link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzWbzcKrUFb0b1lGRG96Vnpaa0U

Thanks to everyone who helped!

Offline Sama

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2017, 04:28:25 PM »
Jazakum Allahu khaira  :)

Offline Syedsamad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2017, 09:40:16 AM »
There was a psychiatrist called Frank r freeamon who rebutted the accusation of schizophrenia saying schizophrenic person is anti social while prophet was highly social

Offline Syedsamad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2017, 09:46:15 AM »
Bro do some more refutation on TLE part of the book
I have read it most of it is childish he related some incidents evaluate them deeply and thus u will be able to refute them

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2017, 11:45:37 AM »
OK everyone, so I am nearly finished with the book, but I need some help. I want to expose Sina with his forum posts (http://www.answering-christianity.com/umar/true_face_of_ali_sina_1.htm) but these threads have been deleted so I want a picture to prove it and so that Sina doesn't deny it. Did anyone take a picture of his posts when the threads were available?


Offline adilriaz123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2017, 06:22:57 PM »
Asalam ul laykum brothers and sisters, sorry i havent had time to help contribute to this project. However, brother muslimforever2012, since sina likes to believe his logical fallacy of so called fabricated 4.5 billion apostate muslims. Which actually sounds way too exagerrated and since islam is the fastest growing religion with the Most practising adherents and the Most Largest religion as of 2016. This fabricated 4.6 billion argument falls on its ilogical face.

Brother muslimforever2012, u should include information from muslimpopulation.com that shows that as of 2016 islam is the largest religion of the world while christianity has 2.06 billion. Islam has 2.14 billion. It is the fastest growing due to birth rate and CONVERSION.


Also, the only time there has been mass number of muslims converting to christianity has ALWAYS been due to pressure from christians or clear death sentence of convert or die. For example the Spanish Reconquesta where Queen Isbella ordered that 500,000. To 600,000 muslims of spain to be either forced converted, die or leave. Majority of those muslims chose death.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversions_of_Muslims_in_Spain

Even nowaday muslims leaving war striken regions thats to the Anglo-American Isreali Agendas. All or Most of these so called mass conversions r done under pressure, that these muslims need to convert if they want to come here and live a better life. This is a testimony by chruch fathers.
Much of these conversions r looked at with suspicion by immigration authorities and many church fathers believe that it is a form of 'abuse'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3611073/Thousands-Muslim-migrants-convert-Christianity-mass-baptisms-reaching-Europe-just-desperate-asylum.html


Brother after completing ur book u should these points to show how all these falsehoods that ali sina believes r all fabrication and are results of abuse from the western radical christians.

Offline adilriaz123

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2017, 06:34:01 PM »
Muslimpopulation.com gets its information from an authentic source which is religouspopulation.com. this is the article by religiouspopulation.com and the research they present is done by Carniege Edowment of International Peace, thus we know this is accurate statistics.
 







"To generate a consistent database which would enable one understand the influence and trends of mankind within the premises of  major religious faiths and practices, research has been carried out by utilizing multiple sources like Population Reference Bureau, CIA Fact Sheet, WIKIPEDIA , Pew Forum, Encyclopedia of the Nations, Holt Rinehart and Winston, BBC and other relevant databases.


The study establishes that the Muslim population is increasing steadily due to higher birth rate as well as conversion, while adherence towards other faiths are either dropping or remained static due to leaving the faiths or lesser growth rate. For example, the Christian population in the west & America(North & South) is dropping due to lesser growth rate through conversion or birth rate as compared to Muslim population and at the same time renouncing the faith system altogether. Christian population is in increase in many of Asian and African countries by both birth rate and conversion. Current data displays that in 2016 Christian population are about 2.07  billion and while Muslims are 2.14 billion.

We calculated on population data sheet of 2016 multiplying the growth rate such as Muslim 1.84% and Christianity 1.13% as found correctly from Carnegie Endowment for International Peace."

http://www.religiouspopulation.com


Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2017, 07:51:36 AM »
Muslimpopulation.com gets its information from an authentic source which is religouspopulation.com. this is the article by religiouspopulation.com and the research they present is done by Carniege Edowment of International Peace, thus we know this is accurate statistics.
 







"To generate a consistent database which would enable one understand the influence and trends of mankind within the premises of  major religious faiths and practices, research has been carried out by utilizing multiple sources like Population Reference Bureau, CIA Fact Sheet, WIKIPEDIA , Pew Forum, Encyclopedia of the Nations, Holt Rinehart and Winston, BBC and other relevant databases.


The study establishes that the Muslim population is increasing steadily due to higher birth rate as well as conversion, while adherence towards other faiths are either dropping or remained static due to leaving the faiths or lesser growth rate. For example, the Christian population in the west & America(North & South) is dropping due to lesser growth rate through conversion or birth rate as compared to Muslim population and at the same time renouncing the faith system altogether. Christian population is in increase in many of Asian and African countries by both birth rate and conversion. Current data displays that in 2016 Christian population are about 2.07  billion and while Muslims are 2.14 billion.

We calculated on population data sheet of 2016 multiplying the growth rate such as Muslim 1.84% and Christianity 1.13% as found correctly from Carnegie Endowment for International Peace."

http://www.religiouspopulation.com

Thank you too.

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2017, 04:18:08 AM »
Unfortunately, my laptop stopped working due to that the charger isn't working anymore. When I get another one, I will continue writing Insha Allah.

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2017, 09:48:55 AM »
Assalamu alaikum.

So finally I'm finished  :D. However, when I reviewed it, I had 2 final questions:

1. Can you explain this contradiction of hadiths?:

Jabir said, Allah be well-pleased with him: I heard the Messenger of Allah say, upon him blessings and peace: “I entered Paradise and saw that most of its dwellers were women.” [ Narrated by al-Bayhaqi in “al-Ba`th wal-Nushur” and Ibn `Asakir in “Tarikh Dimashq” ] .


Sahih Muslim 36.6600:1:

Imran b. Husain reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Amongst the inmates of Paradise the women would form a minority.

2. Is this Tabaqat hadith authentic?:

Ibn Sa'ad wrote: “Sometimes the Prophet used to fast so much, as if he did not want to end it, and sometimes he would not fast for so long that one thought he did not want to fast at all.”

Thanks.

Offline Dr Tazeen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2017, 04:18:42 PM »
1.

Not a contradiction at all because the first hadees is not found in any authentic source, (as I searched)

2.

Even this hadees is not found in any authentic source.(as per my search)

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2017, 03:21:54 AM »
1.

Not a contradiction at all because the first hadees is not found in any authentic source, (as I searched)

2.

Even this hadees is not found in any authentic source.(as per my search)

I found the answer to no. 1. But i'm not sure for 2. I can't just dismiss a hadith without proving it.

Offline AhmadFarooq

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2017, 05:00:40 AM »
The first hadith does appear to have reliable sources.

See: https://islamqa.info/en/21457
For a possible refutation see http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2009/01/why-is-it-said-in-hadith-that-women.html

The second hadith apparently narrated by Imam Ahmad and Imam Al-Nasa'i but with a small but very significant and interesting translation difference.

See the second paragraph here: https://www.islamicity.org/6004/fasting-during-shaban/

Additionally, you can use search engines like search.islamwiki.org, IslamSearch.org or Muslims Search Engine to quickly search for material in relevant Muslim websites.

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2017, 10:42:29 AM »
So I'm finally done. The PDF can be downloaded here: https://ufile.io/p89uc

Thanks  ;D

Now I'll go show this to Sina.....

Offline Dr Tazeen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2017, 12:08:10 PM »
Jazakullah Brother Ahmad for telling the sites for better search options.

The link of Islamqa includes the hadees of sahih Muslim, the second hadees,but what about the first hadees and its authenticity?


Offline AhmadFarooq

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2017, 12:56:03 PM »
Isn't the first narration in the islamqa.info link saying the same thing?
Quote
... “I looked into Paradise and I saw that the majority of its people were the poor. And I looked into Hell and I saw that the majority of its people are women.”

Also, by-the-way, search.islamwiki.org also has your websites included in it too.

Offline Dr Tazeen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2017, 12:59:04 PM »
Brother, the first hadees mentions about majority of women in paradise, narrated by Jabir r.a

Offline Dr Tazeen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2017, 02:03:21 PM »
Prophet, peace and mercy of God upon him, used to fast so many days in succession that we said, 'He will never break his fast.' At other times he would go without fasting for so long until we said, 'He will never again fast;' except for two days, which he would fast even if they occurred during the times he was not fasting consecutive days.

This is what comes from authentic sources, a matter of "we said..." the perception of the companions r.a.

The hadees mentioned in Tabaqat is different,

Ibn Sa'ad wrote: “Sometimes the Prophet used to fast so much, as if he did not want to end it, and sometimes he would not fast for so long that one thought he did not want to fast at all.”

He wanted, and he did not want,....it opens the door for some disorders for people like alisina...NAOZUBILLAH, so I suggest everyone ,every Muslim to go only for the ahadees mentioned in 6 authentic books only, and if one knows arabic then check the translation as well,after authenticity.
If you do not know arabic, thn check 2 or 3 translations for better understanding of the whole hadees.
These Non Muslims have quoted ahadees even from some magazines so i am sick of all that now.I consider the source first, to discuss any hadees.



Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2017, 08:25:10 AM »
OK everyone. Since I'm sure Sina won't reply to me, can someone be kind enough to send him an email? I will PM him/her and tell him/her what to say.

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2017, 06:53:57 AM »
Never mind I will do it myself.

Offline Dr Tazeen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2017, 11:13:24 AM »
I want his email address, as well as that of sam shamon

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #64 on: July 29, 2017, 10:46:05 AM »
I want his email address, as well as that of sam shamon

Read your PM box.

Offline Albarra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #65 on: July 29, 2017, 04:43:12 PM »
Sam Shamoun is a idiotical clown.

Offline muslimforever2012

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2017, 02:51:25 PM »
So I registered on his forum and I am starting a debate with one of the members. You can stay tuned here:

<infidel's link removed>
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 11:04:09 PM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline QuranSearchCom

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Islam is the Divine Truth!
    • View Profile
Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2017, 11:12:16 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,

Sorry akhi, no infidels' links here.  And the doofus infidel's book "Muhammad being an assassin" is nothing worthy of refuting.  Part of the nature of life here on this earth is to shed blood.  You see this ALL THE TIME in the animals' kingdom, where predators kill preys, and the strong kills the weak even among siblings.

The Angels were concerned that Allah Almighty will further put creatures who will shed blood on earth, when the Almighty decided to create Adam:

"Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."   (The Noble Quran, 2:30)"

www.answering-christianity.com/adam.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/adam_90_feet_tall.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,842.msg2547.html#msg2547


Atheism is nothing.  It is an open ticket to be whatever Hell one wants to be.  But this goes against our FITRAH that Allah Almighty has put into our instincts; that Allah Almighty exists and we are all His subjects:

www.answering-christianity.com/fitrah.htm

So Muslims shedding blood to spread Islam should not be anything evil.  The evil is when the atheists and the likes of them from the infidels shed the bloods of 10s and 10s of millions of people by the wholesale.  Joseph Stalin, the communist leaders from China, North Korea, Vietnam, and others had all slaughtered people by the 10s of millions.  And they were atheists.  Plus other non-atheist infidels did that as well.

I hope this helps, Insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah