Author Topic: Ali Sina's book needs refutation  (Read 10630 times)

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Offline muslimforever2012

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2017, 11:10:00 AM »
OK I am nearly finished in refuting the charges but I am stuck in one thing. Can you help me in refuting
 
OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE DISORDER (OCD)
SCHIZOPHRENIA
PARANOID PERSONALITY DISORDER
BIPOLAR DISORDER

sorry for the caps I copy pasted.

What? I don't get it. Does Islam mention about disorders?

Sorry forgot to clarify. Sina accused Muhammad of having these disorders. I can show you his ''evidence'' if you want.

Offline Albarra

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2017, 03:51:00 PM »
muslimforever2012,

Yes, show me please.

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2017, 07:09:08 PM »
Having Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) isn't exactly a damaging accusation. Millions of people in the world have it. Around 1% of the population are found to be going through this disorder. In most cases, OCD makes life difficult only for the person suffering from it and have absolutely no effect on the people that surround him. It requires discipline and is a credit to the person who can live normally while suffering from OCD.

Regarding "Generally, women are less intelligent than men".
This is not a scientific fact. Many studies have been done on the subject and there have consistently been variable results. Some had men at higher intelligence while some had women. Some later studies, however, saw no significant difference. One consistent difference has been that men have better spatial abilities and women have better spatial memory. Another has been the observation that men have more variability, i.e. more men are found to be at the top and bottom of the charts, while women remain more in the middle.

Details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligence

What exactly does intelligence have to do with being president? Can you honestly regard a post that Donald Trump now occupies as an indication of high intelligence? Becoming president requires better political opportunities and women have historically, for whatever reason, not been able to gain them.

Similarly, being involved in higher paying jobs is also not proof of which gender is more intelligent. A significant reason that men end up in higher paying jobs is that women much more often choose their families over their work while men are more likely to prefer their careers and paying opportunities over their families.

Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/women-more-often-choose-family-over-work/433029/

Additionally, if I remember a source correctly, women prefer to work in jobs which involve interaction with other people (like nursing, waitresses, hostesses) which usually pay less. On the other hand, men prefer work involving high involvement of machines (like engineering jobs) which happen to be generally better paying.

Offline muslimforever2012

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2017, 05:25:00 AM »
muslimforever2012,

Yes, show me please.

OK.

Sina quotes the definition of OCD:

''Collectively, these disorders are among the most common of mental health problems.
It is estimated that 1 in 10 people suffers from an anxiety disorder sometime in their
life… For people with obsessive-compulsive disorder, obsession creates a maze of
persistent thoughts. Those thoughts lead them to act out rituals (compulsions),
sometimes for hours a day… Worries and doubts, superstitions and rituals are
common to most everyone. OCD occurs when worries become obsessions and the
compulsive rituals so excessive that they dominate a person's life. It’s as if the brain
is a scratched vinyl record, forever skipping at the same groove and repeating one
fragment of song.
Obsessions are persistent ideas, thoughts, impulses or images; they are intrusive and
illogical. Common OCD obsessions revolve around contamination, doubts, and
disturbing sexual or religious thoughts… Often, a person's obsessions are
accompanied by feelings of fear, disgust and doubt, or the belief that certain activities
have to be done just so… People with OCD try to relieve their obsessions by
performing compulsive rituals, over and over again, and often according to certain
"rules."

Then Sina says:

Muhammad’s obsession with rituals can only be understood through Obsessive
Compulsive Disorder. OCD sufferers are obsessed with patterns, rituals, and
numbers. Mohammad was fixated with number three. There are many rituals that
Muslims are required to perform three times. There is no logical explanation for it
except for the fact that it is a sunnah (tradition) of Muhammad. The following are
the rituals that the believer must perform before praying:
 Declare the intention that the act is for the purpose of worship.
 Rinse out the mouth with water three times
 Cleanse the nostrils by sniffing water in to them three times.
 Wash the whole face three times.
 Wash the right arm three times up to the far end of the elbow and then do the
same with the left arm.
 Wipe the whole head or any part of it with a wet hand once.
 Wipe the inner sides of the ears with the forefingers and their outer sides with
the thumbs. This should be done with wet fingers.
Wipe around the neck with wet hands.
 Wash the two feet up to the ankles three times beginning with the right foot.

End of quote.

Then Sina goes on to explain the rituals of Tayammum and the sunnah of eating.

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2017, 06:37:08 AM »
First of all just because a person might suffer some obsessions related to OCD, does not mean that he suffers from all of them. If a person feels obsessively compelled to wash again and again it does not naturally conclude that he also suffers from "disturbing sexual or religious thoughts" or "feelings of fear, disgust and doubt". If what you have mentioned above is all the evidence that Sina has put up regarding OCD, then it becomes easy to prove that Sina is trying to prove Prophet Muhammad being obsessed with remaining clean or washing (which has hardly anything wrong with it) and very maliciously and fallaciously link that to "disturbing sexual or religious thoughts".

Furthermore, if the entirety of the "proof" of Prophet Muhammad's alleged OCD consists only of "washing three times" then this accusation is pretty much easily refuted. The fact is that, washing three times in ablution is not obligatory. It is the recommended approach but not compulsory.

"Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The Muslims are unanimously agreed that what is obligatory is to wash each part once, and that washing each part three times is Sunnah."

What is really damning evidence against the OCD allegation is that according to the recorded narrations Prophet Muhammad varied the number of times he washed each part.

"There are saheeh ahaadeeth which mention washing each part once, and each part three times, and washing some parts three times, some two times and some once."

This variation, depending on the severity of the disorder, is hell for a person suffering from OCD. A lot of times it is extremely disturbing, if not entirely impossible, for an OCD person to vary their routines. This causes much frustration in the person and in some cases such persons might even feel like losing their sanity. Such variation is very solid evidence supporting the fact that the person does not suffer from OCD, at least not presently.

Reference source: https://islamqa.info/en/72450

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2017, 07:09:14 AM »
Furthermore:

- "... or the belief that certain activities have to be done just so..."

This part of the definition of OCD combined with the recorded narrations regarding how the Prophet varied his ablution is quite strong evidence against the OCD claim. In a way, Sina himself provided the means to disprove his own allegations.

- "... was fixated with number three."

And yet only one of the five daily prayers involve three units. Not to mention the fact that the most repeated activity of the Salat, the Sajdah (prostration) is done in groups of two.

"There are many rituals that Muslims are required to perform three times."

Obviously, not as many as Sina thinks. By-the-way are there any "rituals that Muslims are required to perform three times"?

- "There is no logical explanation for it..."

Well, apparently not any that Sina would understand, or would want to understand. Washing three times naturally ensures better and more reliable cleaning.

- "Declare the intention that the act is for the purpose of worship."

Yes, positively deciding or making up your mind to perform some action, how very obsessively compulsive of a person!

- "Wipe the whole head or any part of it with a wet hand once. Wipe the inner sides of the ears ... Wipe around the neck with wet hands."

Apparently, Sina was unaware of the non-obligatory custom of washing each of these parts three times too.

Offline muslimforever2012

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2017, 05:28:17 AM »
Thanks AhmadFarooq.

As for the ''evidence'' of schizophrenia, here it is:

''Schizophrenia is the disease of thought disorder of inappropriate emotions and
of inappropriate attribution of things. It is a disease of cognitive abnormalities and
abnormal sequential thoughts.
Auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech
and thinking are some of the symptoms of Schizophrenia. There are also signs of
and symptoms associated with impaired occupational or social function. The
symptoms typically occur in young adulthood and last a lifetime.''

Apart from one trip Muhammad made to Syria as the amin (trustee) of
Khadijah, he did not engage in any occupation. He was also withdrawn and used to spend his days in a cave alone. This satisfies the criterion of impaired occupational
and social function. Prior to his prophetic enterprise, Muhammad was a loner. His
only occupation before marrying Khadijah was herding family goats, where
interaction with others was kept to minimum. At one point, when he tried to act like
a normal youth and sneaked into a wedding party, he felt dizzy and was weighed
down by excruciating spasms.

As per above, the story of magic being worked out on Muhammad making him
believe he had sexual intercourse with his wives when he did not, and his claim that
he saw two men standing over him and discussing his condition as narrated by
Aisha (quoted in the previous chapter), are enough to diagnose Muhammad with
Schizophrenia. Another clue to his delusional thinking is his claim that two men in
white threw him on the ground, pulled out his heart and after washing it with snow
replaced it without leaving any scar.

End of quote.

I tried looking everywhere for ways to debunk this, but I couldn't.

Offline Sama

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2017, 06:17:12 AM »
Salam alaikum
One cause of visual,auditory or command hallucinations is Schizophrenia but logically the man of a balanced ,leading and victorious personality could not be a schizophrenic.
Diagnostic Criteria of schizophrenia:
https://rebuttaltounderstandingmuhammad.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/refuting-hallucinations-and-seizures/

Offline Sama

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2017, 06:49:45 AM »
 Could it not have been that Muhammad(pbuh) suffered from Schizophrenia and that the feeling of revelations was but a symptom of that disorder? In fact, was he not called a madman by his contemporaries?

It has been the most important allegation of the rationalists that prophet Muhammad(pbuh) suffered from Schizophrenia. For, as far as those who will not recognize the existence of God are concerned, no matter how often the truth of revelation is reiterated to them, they will never ever appreciate it. It is for this reason that any discussion with the atheist must, necessarily, begin with the issue of the existence of God. How, indeed, can a people, who reject the very existence of the Lord Creator himself, be made to accept the truthfulness of a revelation that proceeds from Him ?

With regard to the question posed here, however, it is its second part that must actually be dealt with first. Was Muhammad(pbuh) called a madman by his contemporaries? If so, then what were the symptoms of madness, which he exhibited, on the basis of which they had made this allegation?

Upto the age of forty, Muhammad(pbuh) had been the owner of a personality that was truthful in its disposition and accepted by all in society. In this long period of time none had ever, in any way, attributed to him the state of lunacy. It is, however, true that after prophethood he had been subject to the allegation of being a madman. But significantly enough, it was not just a madman that Muhammad(pbuh) was called. Indeed, he had been abused with the allegations of being a sorcerer, a magician, one affected by witchcraft, a poet and the like. Was it because of a marked and obvious difference in his personality, or mental disposition, that they abused him as being such ? That this was, indeed, the case, was never advocated by any of them. Their problem had been the Qur'an and the ideas which it contained. Muhammad(pbuh) had spoken out against their traditional beliefs. Moreover, because he had called it Divine, people were fast being attracted to the Qur'an which he now recited to them.All these allegations against him were but the deliberate fabrications of the guardians of the traditional religion who now realized that they had to resort to his character assasination if they were to isolate him from the people.

The time when Muhammad(pbuh) had publicly declared his prophethood; the time of the Hajj was at hand. The leaders of Mecca greatly feared that Muhammad(pbuh) would propagate his religion among the people who would come from all the different parts of Arabia and that they would be attracted by the Qur'an. Forthwith did they convene a meeting. It was then decided that they would first meet with those who arrived for the Hajj and unleash a propaganda against Muhammad(pbuh). The next discussion centered on the question as to how Muhammad(pbuh) was to be described. That each should give a different description would be an affront to their own credibility. What, then, would be the allegation that may be made in common between them? Some said, "Let us say that Muhammad(pbuh) is a soothsayer." To this, Waleed bin Mugheera, a prominent tribal chief retorted, "That can never be. For, by Allah, he is not a soothsayer and we have seen soothsayers. Muhammad’s words are not the prophecies of soothsayers." Yet others said, "We shall say that he is a madman." Then said Waleed, "He is not a madman. We have seen madmen and he has nothing either of their mad talk or of their antics and devilish tendencies." At this, they said, "Then, in that case, let us say that he is a poet." But Waleed countered, "He is no poet. For we are aware of all the types of poetry and, for a surety, it is not poetry that he uttereth." The people then said, " Let us say, then, that he is a sorcerer." But Waleed retorted once again, "He is no sorcerer and he uses neither their knots nor their lutes."

"Then what is it that you propose?" they demanded. He then declared, "Verily, there is a particular sweetness in his words. Its value is expansive, even as fruit-laden are its branches. For a certainty, all that you may utter against him will, in time, prove to be meaningless and futile. It is, therefore, suitable that he be described as a magician who is out to disrupt the ties between father and children, husband and wife as well as between the older and the younger brother!" Accept this the people did. They started, also, the propagation likewise.

What is it that this incident gives us to understand? The allegation that he was a madman was but one among the other false propaganda fabricated by his enemies to alienate the people from the guidance of the prophet. In fact, the very people who spread this misconception themselves never believed in it. It is for this same reason, therefore, that to accept as evidence their allegation will be to do that which will amount to rank foolishness.

The prophet had lived fourteen centuries ago. As such, to examine whether he did actually suffer from schizophrenia is, as of today, beyond us. It is, however, the revelation and dreams which he experienced that are now upheld as evidences by those who allege that Muhammad(pbuh) had, indeed, been a schizophrenic patient. Moreover, this claim has been put forward by the critics on the basis of the ahadith which describes the nature of the revelation as told by the prophet and the external and physical changes to which the prophet was subjected while in receipt of the divine revelation. However, an impartial enquiry into the subject as to whether the symptoms of a schizophrenic disorder were, indeed, present in the prophet will make it amply clear that this allegation is without any substance, whatsoever.

One : The behavioural patterns of a schizophrenic patient is constantly in a flux. This inconsistency manifests itself in the behaviour displayed while dealing with other people and in one’s conversation as well.

Examine the life and speech of Muhammad(pbuh). We are unable to trace out any contradiction, whatsoever, in his approach or character. If prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was, indeed, the owner of a code of behaviour that constantly shifted as well as of a manner of talking in which there was no relation between his present and past utterances, how was it possible that he did have so many trustworthy and devoted companions?

The companions of Muhammad(pbuh) were never like the followers of the ordinary divines whom we have come to know of today. They were ever engaged in carrying out into practice all that he recommended them to accomplish. Is it believable that a great multitude of people would go on to carry out the bidding of a schizophrenic patient?

Two : The responses of the schizophrenic patient, will also be contradictory. Indeed, such people might burst out crying in times of joy and burst out laughing in times of grief. It is also seen that they cry and laugh for no particular reason.
The responses exhibited by Muhammad (pbuh) were, however, well-balanced. Consider just an incident in this regard. The prophet was once resting himself in the shade of a tree. Suddenly he is confronted by an attacker with a drawn-out sword who asks, "Who will now save thee from myself ?" With firmness came the prophet’s reply, "Allah!" Upon hearing this reply, behind which stood a great, and manifest, conviction, the sword slipped down from the hand of the would-be attacker.

Is it possible to expect such strength of conviction from a schizophrenic patient?

Three : Schizophrenic people are usually introverts. They never take the slightest interest in the happenings of the outside world.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had never been an introvert. Indeed, he was a man who not only viewed with the greatest interest the developments in the world around him, but he also played out his own role were the circumstances prevailing ever to call forth such a necessity. He was, furthermore, a person who had striven not only to provide a moral code to the people, but also to live out a life that would stand as an exemplary model for them to follow.

Lamartine wrote: "Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, the conqueror of ideas, the restorer of the faith, of a cult without images, the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and one spiritual empire - that was Muhammad. As regards all the standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask the question: ‘Is there any man greater that he?" (Historie De la Turquie, vol. 2, page 277)
Is this the evaluative account about an introvert who was also a schizophrenic?

Four : Those who suffer from Schizophrenia can hardly work systematically towards the attainment of any slated objective. Such people, who are unable to accomplish anything of significance, will necessarily be a mentally and physically exhausted lot.
Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) had been the last of the messengers of God who had been sent for the guidance of humanity. He was eminently successful in that he accomplished the very purpose of his mission in a span of time which stretched roughly over two decades. Indeed, Muhammad(pbuh) managed to attract scores of people to the religion of truth by way of a disciplined method of propagation. It had been just all of twenty three years that was required to transform a people who had been nowhere in civilization and culture into a race that became the highest exemplars for the whole world. All those who have analysed history with impartiality have opined that Muhammad(pbuh) was indeed, the person who has most influenced the world.

Will those, who know even a little about the said disorder, ever accept that all this was possible by a schizophrenic patient?

Five : The Schizophrenic patient suffers from delusions as well as hallucinations. These delusion and hallucinations have no semblance or relation with reality.

The critics have attributed Schizophrenia to him by classifyng the revelations and visions which the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) received into this category. We have, however, seen that none of the other symptoms of Schizophrenia were present in the prophet. Then how will it be possible to attribute a schizophrenic disorder to him in the light these revelations alone? The ‘revelations’ to which the schizophrenic patient is subject are but a symptom of the disease. Such revelations will be related and confined only to his own personal domains. But what of the revelations which Muhammad(pbuh) had experienced? Those revelations had served to carve out an ideal community in a step by step fashion. Firstly, it inculcated, in the people, the consciousness about God and of the Hereafter. Through stage after stage, it struck at the very root of the evils that had afflicted the society. In such manner was it, therefore, that the revelations experienced by Muhammad(pbuh) were able to become the very cause behind the creation of an exemplary society. Indeed, the revolution that was wrought stands at the pinnacle of greatness. In the broad sweep of history there has not been another revolution to rival it in any way.

Is it ever possible that the delusions of a schizophrenic patient can serve as the cause of the creation of an exemplary society and of a faultless and incomparable revolution?

It is clear from all this that the allegations that Muhammad(pbuh) was a schizophrenic patient and that it is the delusions which he had heard that form the contents of the Qur'an are merely allegations that do not deserve to be considered in their own right.
http://www.nicheoftruth.org/pages/composition_of_the_quran.htm#Could%20it%20not%20have%20been%20that%20Muhammad(pbuh)%20suffered%20from%20Schizophrenia%20and%20that%20the%C2%A0feeling%20of%20revelations%20was%20but%20a%20symptom%20of%20that%20disorder?%20In%20fact,%20was%20he%20not%20called%C2%A0a%20madman%20by%20his%20contemporaries?

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2017, 09:07:44 AM »
While searching-islam.com remains offline, for the time being, you can make use of https://search.islamwiki.org/ to search most of the online Muslim websites where refutations to such allegations are often times already been published.

Offline Sama

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2017, 10:19:20 AM »
While searching-islam.com remains offline, for the time being, you can make use of https://search.islamwiki.org/ to search most of the online Muslim websites where refutations to such allegations are often times already been published.

Thanks for the link.

I use this one: http://bemuslims.weebly.com/muslims-search-engine.html

Offline muslimforever2012

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2017, 12:27:34 PM »
Assalamu Alaikum everyone!

I just wanted to inform you that the 11 accusations are finished! Before I continue writing the book and exposing Sina, I want you to see the book so that you can give me suggestions, correcting mistakes,etc. Anyways, here's the link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzWbzcKrUFb0b1lGRG96Vnpaa0U

Thanks to everyone who helped!

Offline Sama

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2017, 04:28:25 PM »
Jazakum Allahu khaira  :)

Offline Syedsamad

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2017, 09:40:16 AM »
There was a psychiatrist called Frank r freeamon who rebutted the accusation of schizophrenia saying schizophrenic person is anti social while prophet was highly social

Offline Syedsamad

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Re: Ali Sina's book needs refutation
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2017, 09:46:15 AM »
Bro do some more refutation on TLE part of the book
I have read it most of it is childish he related some incidents evaluate them deeply and thus u will be able to refute them