Author Topic: Prisoners of war  (Read 2952 times)

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Offline Zakir

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Prisoners of war
« on: January 22, 2018, 04:18:26 PM »
1)One thing I don't get of prisoners of war why do humans become property also when you say a a slave woman becomes impregnated by her master
she will be free well the only way to get escape slavery is to he ransomed or sex then. So this Is kind of rape or is it because a woman would not want to be enslaved so will have to have intercourse unwillingly just to get out even though she is a prisoner of war can she not just request to be freed.

2) Also could you explain this hadith please After the distribution of the spoils of war a man may have intercourse with the female slave after passing one menstrual period, if she is not pregnant. If she is pregnant one should wait till she delivers the child. This is the view held by Malik, al-Shafi?i and Abu Thawr. Abu Hanifah holds that if both the husband and wife are captivated together, their marriage tie still continues; they will not be separated. According to the majority of scholars, they will be separated. Al-Awza-i maintains that their marriage tie will continue till they remain part of the spoils of war. If a man buys them, he may separate them if he desires, and cohabit with the female slave after one menstrual period. (?Awn al-Ma?bud II.213)"  Abu Dawud vol.2
They say that muhmmads war separated families why was this allowed did the husband or wife give consent to be separated.
3) I thought Islam came to end slavery.
4) I have a few hadith I will upload yesterday that I need answering can someone answer them tomorrow night.

Offline Sama

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 05:59:33 AM »

1- Western people impregnate each other everyday with thousands of abortions, so they have no right to complain when ancient Muslims have sex which was made lawful by God !

2- Disbelievers always accused Prophet Muhammad of separating families. Actually, Christians claim that the mission of Prophet Jesus is to separate the families and bring swords.

3- Allah said:

    فَلَا اقْتَحَمَ الْعَقَبَةَ وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا الْعَقَبَةُ فَكُّ رَقَبَةٍ

    But he has not broken through the difficult path, and what will make you know what is the difficult path? It is the freeing of a slave.

    Surah Al-Balad 90:11-13


4- Have a look here, mostly this will explain them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSYraWg8ceM
http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t193564.html
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/does_islam_permit_muslim_men_to_rape_their_slave_girls_
https://abuaminaelias.com/what-does-islam-teach-about-slavery/


Offline Albarra

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 07:58:47 AM »
Infidels are llying about Islam. If Muslims rape their female slaves, then why did they punish rapists?


Offline shaad

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 08:36:24 AM »

Offline Zakir

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2018, 10:52:47 AM »

1- Western people impregnate each other everyday with thousands of abortions, so they have no right to complain when ancient Muslims have sex which was made lawful by God !

2- Disbelievers always accused Prophet Muhammad of separating families. Actually, Christians claim that the mission of Prophet Jesus is to separate the families and bring swords.

3- Allah said:

    فَلَا اقْتَحَمَ الْعَقَبَةَ وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا الْعَقَبَةُ فَكُّ رَقَبَةٍ

    But he has not broken through the difficult path, and what will make you know what is the difficult path? It is the freeing of a slave.

    Surah Al-Balad 90:11-13


4- Have a look here, mostly this will explain them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSYraWg8ceM
http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t193564.html
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/does_islam_permit_muslim_men_to_rape_their_slave_girls_
https://abuaminaelias.com/what-does-islam-teach-about-slavery/
So just a quick question not an atrack so the prophet thought it was perfectly fine to separate this husband and wife without there consent and most likely unwilingly.

Offline Sama

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 12:32:12 PM »
Imam Nawawi in his commentary on this hadith states:

فإنه ينفسخ نكاح زوجها الكافر

It (i.e. to come to own a slave girl) annuls the marriage between her and her disbeliever husband. ( Commentary on Hadith no. 2643 Muslim)

Thus, we see that in the eyes of Islam this marriage becomes invalid (some opinions like that of the Hanafi school state other conditions required for the annulment to occur).

The critic would definitely argue back stating "what gives your religion the right?" but that is not the point of discussion. This is an external critique of Islam and the basis for this discussion really isn't about this topic in particular but about whether Islam really is true and whether this is God's decree.
To debate the specifics is just useless. The Muslim sees this decree to be internally consistent and submits to God's law that states that action x results in a divorce.

One might shout out to the Christian as well, "What gives your Bible the right to declare a woman an adulteress if she happened to marry a man who divorced her by not following the proper procedures (Matthew 5:2)?" The Christian really has nothing to say except the fact that he believes that this is God's decree and submits to it. He believes that God has the power and right to determine how divorce should take place (e.g. what conditions are valid for divorce) and submits to them. Well, the Muslim says the same thing in this regard.

Offline Zakir

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 03:04:39 PM »
Three questions
1) Isn't this separation thing a bit barbaric and over the top?
2) I'm pretty sure people don't want to be slave so if the woman request freedom can she not be frees?
3) I know Islam forbids rape but this is indirect rape although the woman is not physical forced into sex she has to do it to be free, isn't this like prostitution .

Offline Sama

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 04:02:33 PM »
Three questions
1) Isn't this separation thing a bit barbaric and over the top?
2) I'm pretty sure people don't want to be slave so if the woman request freedom can she not be frees?
3) I know Islam forbids rape but this is indirect rape although the woman is not physical forced into sex she has to do it to be free, isn't this like prostitution .
1- To the contrary. It's a divine legislation. Muslims accept it and submit to it whether they know the wisdom behind it or  do not.

2- If she can affords for herself, she can proceed to Al-Mukatabah (http://www.alsiraj.net/English/misc/women/html/page0403.html).

3- She "can"practice sexual contact with her owner. That's her best available option to satisfy her physical needs not to fall as a victim to illegal zina. This halal sex is an advantage to someone in her situation. This doesn't mean that once she have sex, she becomes free.


Offline shaad

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 08:32:42 PM »

3) I know Islam forbids rape but this is indirect rape although the woman is not physical forced into sex she has to do it to be free, isn't this like prostitution .

@Zakir, any reference for that one?

Offline shaad

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2018, 06:31:29 AM »
@Zakir, you here? The reason i asked you for reference was to know whether she immediately becomes free or after the death of her master...what does your sources say?

Offline Zakir

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2018, 09:42:48 AM »
@Zakir, you here? The reason i asked you for reference was to know whether she immediately becomes free or after the death of her master...what does your sources say?
I got it from a article on this website called does Islam allow the rape of female slaves I think it was by karim it says :
"But as it aimed at putting an end to such issue, Islam laid down rules which would eventually lead to eradicating the practice. So it allowed Muslims to have intercourse with slave women taken as captives of just and legitimate wars. In so doing, the woman would automatically become free if she got pregnant. What's more, her child would also become free. "

Offline shaad

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2018, 09:20:23 PM »
Thanks Zakir..


Offline Zakir

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2018, 03:20:23 PM »
Thanks Zakir..
So what about the issue that sex is the only way to escape slavery if your not ransomed then this is like indirect rape is it not.

Offline Sama

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2018, 05:09:57 PM »
So what about the issue that sex is the only way to escape slavery if your not ransomed then this is like indirect rape is it not.
"Forcing" is not in the dictionary.

Offline Zakir

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Re: Prisoners of war
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2018, 01:49:38 AM »
So what about the issue that sex is the only way to escape slavery if your not ransomed then this is like indirect rape is it not.
"Forcing" is not in the dictionary.
Just a question were all slaves seperated from there  families if a woman is taken captive can she stay with her family and why can you have I intercourse with her if she's with her family