Author Topic: Proof  (Read 3860 times)

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Offline Zakir

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Proof
« on: March 04, 2018, 03:21:50 PM »
1)It feels like an infinite loop atheists say we don't have evidence and we say they don't just minor signs as humamity has advanced people have concluded faith is fiction. So many intelligent people don't believe in God and they are known for there logic.
2) People ask if we cannot comprehend how Allah is how can we say the universe needs a creator maybe it's out of our    knowledge.

Online Sama

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Re: Proof
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 03:45:58 PM »

Offline Zakir

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Re: Proof
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 03:51:56 PM »
👍
2?

Online Sama

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Re: Proof
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 04:16:31 PM »
Abu Hanifa, may Allah have mercy on him, was approached by some speculative theologians who intended to discuss with him the oneness of Allah’s Lordship. He said, “Before we discuss this question, tell me what you think about a boat in the Euphrates which goes to shore, loads itself with food and other things, then returns, anchors and unloads all by itself, without anyone sailing or controlling it?” They said, “This is impossible.” Abu Hanifa said:

    إِذَا كَانَ هَذَا مُحَالًا فِي سَفِينَةٍ فَكَيْفَ فِي هَذَا الْعَالَمِ كُلِّهِ عُلْوِهِ وَسُفْلِهِ

    If it is impossible with a boat, then how is it possible for the world, in all its vastness, to move by itself?

Once a desert Arab was asked about the evidence of Allah’s existence, so he responded:

    يَا سُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ إِنَّ الْبَعْرَةَ لَتَدُلُّ عَلَى الْبَعِيرِ وَإِنَّ أَثَرَ الْأَقْدَامِ لَتَدُلُّ عَلَى الْمَسِيرِ فَسَمَاءٌ ذَاتُ أَبْرَاجٍ وَأَرْضٌ ذَاتُ فِجَاجٍ وَبِحَارٌ ذَاتُ أَمْوَاجٍ أَلَا يَدُلُّ ذَلِكَ عَلَى وُجُودِ اللَّطِيفِ الْخَبِيرِ

    Glory be to Allah! The camel’s dung testifies to the existence of the camel, and the track testifies to the fact that someone was walking. A sky that holds the stars, a land that has fairways and a sea that has waves? Does not all of this testify to the existence of the Most Kind, Most Knowledgeable?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7uxlTK2S4E

Offline Zakir

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Re: Proof
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2018, 04:41:08 PM »
Abu Hanifa, may Allah have mercy on him, was approached by some speculative theologians who intended to discuss with him the oneness of Allah’s Lordship. He said, “Before we discuss this question, tell me what you think about a boat in the Euphrates which goes to shore, loads itself with food and other things, then returns, anchors and unloads all by itself, without anyone sailing or controlling it?” They said, “This is impossible.” Abu Hanifa said:

    إِذَا كَانَ هَذَا مُحَالًا فِي سَفِينَةٍ فَكَيْفَ فِي هَذَا الْعَالَمِ كُلِّهِ عُلْوِهِ وَسُفْلِهِ

    If it is impossible with a boat, then how is it possible for the world, in all its vastness, to move by itself?

Once a desert Arab was asked about the evidence of Allah’s existence, so he responded:

    يَا سُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ إِنَّ الْبَعْرَةَ لَتَدُلُّ عَلَى الْبَعِيرِ وَإِنَّ أَثَرَ الْأَقْدَامِ لَتَدُلُّ عَلَى الْمَسِيرِ فَسَمَاءٌ ذَاتُ أَبْرَاجٍ وَأَرْضٌ ذَاتُ فِجَاجٍ وَبِحَارٌ ذَاتُ أَمْوَاجٍ أَلَا يَدُلُّ ذَلِكَ عَلَى وُجُودِ اللَّطِيفِ الْخَبِيرِ

    Glory be to Allah! The camel’s dung testifies to the existence of the camel, and the track testifies to the fact that someone was walking. A sky that holds the stars, a land that has fairways and a sea that has waves? Does not all of this testify to the existence of the Most Kind, Most Knowledgeable?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7uxlTK2S4E

<infidels' links removed>
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 06:55:51 AM by QuranSearchCom »

Online Sama

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Re: Proof
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2018, 05:07:58 PM »
delete the links and bring their arguments.

Offline Zakir

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Re: Proof
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2018, 05:11:42 PM »
delete the links and bring their arguments.
Oh yes sorry how do you even edit a post always wanted to know

Offline Zakir

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Re: Proof
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2018, 05:22:07 PM »
delete the links and bring their arguments.
I will add 10 compressed points tomorrow

Offline shaad

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Re: Proof
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2018, 10:56:50 PM »
lol glad you're sorry but i wonder how many times you've been told not to post links to these kind of contents...

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Proof
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2018, 07:05:51 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum,

Jazakum Allah Khayr brothers Sama and Shaad for the reminding posts.

Brother Zakir, how many times do we have to tell you that no infidels' links allowed here. 

As to editing your posts, I am the only one here who can edit any post.  I don't want already established posts and threads to be tampered with.  Now, if there is a need to edit, just make a request in a post after.



The Debate that Concerned you?

The Muslim brother didn't argue thoroughly.  I've debated before.  Debates to inexperienced debaters are not fair at all.  And they are very time consuming to prepare.  This is why I prepared Debate PPT templates for Muslims to use:

www.answering-christianity.com/debate_templates.htm

The Muslim brother mistranslated the Big Bang Noble Verse.  And the atheist's response about creation created from water is weak.  If I were the Muslim debater, I would've brought a host of Noble Verses that talked about the Big Bang theory and some of its related topics to help the audience really see the Scientific Miracles of the Glorious Quran.  Many are listed here:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#astronomy

And I would've brought in very heavily the Numerical Miracles by giving several strong examples:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#numerical_miracles


The doomed-to-Hell infidels have nothing but noise, brother.  Islam is the Divine Truth of GOD Almighty.  Live and die on this belief.  Don't let the infidels lead you astray.  Their religions are all conjecture and BS.  Every yapping dog acts like a Divinely chosen scholar from them.  They're all full of nonsense and their scriptures are self-contradicting and thoroughly corrupt.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Hayalilaydaa

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Re: Proof
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2018, 01:11:30 PM »
Zakir you really have the exact same problem as me only difference is mine has been longer (since ramadan 2017) and i can deal with it better than before. I even thought about suicide thats how bad it was. What i can tell you to do is GO OUTSIDE! meet friends talk with people get your mind of off it! I swear i used to do notjing but google what the anti-islamists say, i cried so many times vallahi you dont even know how much i wish i died ( i was close to death once ) please brother get your mind off i know how hard it is im still in it too, but get out and idk play playstation fifa, black ops just get your mind off!

Offline Zakir

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Re: Proof
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2018, 02:53:50 PM »
Zakir you really have the exact same problem as me only difference is mine has been longer (since ramadan 2017) and i can deal with it better than before. I even thought about suicide thats how bad it was. What i can tell you to do is GO OUTSIDE! meet friends talk with people get your mind of off it! I swear i used to do notjing but google what the anti-islamists say, i cried so many times vallahi you dont even know how much i wish i died ( i was close to death once ) please brother get your mind off i know how hard it is im still in it too, but get out and idk play playstation fifa, black ops just get your mind off!
Its been since November for me and i felt exactly the same i was depressed used to cry often felt alone and unsure i need to find answers or ill be forever deprived of certainty.
I try to take a break its hard

Offline Zakir

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Re: Proof
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2018, 02:55:46 PM »
1) First, when considering this position, it's important to recognize the difference between complexity and design. Complexity itself does not require an intelligent creator. It's easy to impose a design upon things that exist by chance or developed through a natural process like evolution.

To an extent, this argument gains traction because of wide misunderstanding of science and especially evolution. Everything in the universe conforms to certain simple scientific rules that have been repeated over billions of years. While this can be awe-inspiring, it by no means suggests a creator.

Failure to understand the scientific principles guiding the creation and development of the universe does not mean that a deity must exist to explain the natural world.
2) This argument presupposes its premise. People believe in scripture and place value in the words because they already believe in the religious principles the text describes. There is no inherent value to the Bible, Quran or any other religious text; these documents are not self-authenticating in any way.

In fact, many factual inaccuracies and inconsistencies can be found within religious texts themselves. For example, the Bible contains two separate creation stories, each of which provides a very different explanation. Similarly, there is no historical, archaeological or scientific evidence to support many of the stories in the Bible and the Quran.

Ultimately, religious texts are infinitely fallible because they are man-made products of whimsy, poetry, mythology and some history woven together into a new whole. The texts in the Bible have been gathered from many oral sources over thousands of years and compiled arbitrarily into a single document; it's hardly surprising that the narrative would be so inconsistent. Other religious texts have similarly convoluted histories.

Aside from the problems with individual texts, there's also the obvious issue that the very presence of multiple scriptures negates the authenticity of any single religious document. It's impossible for every religious book to be true; it's highly presumptuous to assume that one's own preferred scripture is the single "true" scripture while all the others are false accounts. It's far more likely that every religious book is equally fictitious and unreliable.

3) This argument is often offered as a last line of defense in religious debates, and the person posing it might feel very clever coming up with it. However, the premise of the argument is both flawed and ridiculous. The failure to disprove something does not constitute proof of its existence.

The burden of proof is always on the person making a claim, especially in cases where the claims are unsupported or unfalsifiable. With no enduring evidence that a God exists, there is simply no reason to believe in a deity, even if it's not possible to irrefutably disprove his existence.

Many thought experiments have been created to show the absurdity of these claims, such as the Invisible Pink Unicorn, Carl Sagan's "The Dragon in My Garage," Russell's Teapot or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. All of which are absurd claims without evidence and yet impossible to disprove. Familiarizing yourself with these thought experiments can give you a clear picture of exactly why the burden of proof should always be on the person making a claim.
4) The existence of Unicorns can not be disproven, therefore there are Unicorns.
Does that make sense to you? Nobody can disprove the existence of any mythical entity, that does not mean they exist. We determine things based on evidence. No evidence, no reality, no exitence. This frustrates the hell out of theists, but they know it is true and they would not take it on faith if I told someone that I had a Leprachaun in my closet. They would want to see it for themselves.
5) Just as miracles are impossible to prove without resorting to unreliable anecdotes, the power of prayer is certainly not supported by science. Belief in prayer relies on confirmation bias. Essentially, people remember the times that prayer seemed to "work" but conveniently forget the many occasions that they prayed and saw no response or received the opposite result of what they'd wanted. These unwanted results are often ignored completely or rationalized away.

Prayer is a type of magical thinking. Its appeal is undeniable; it feels empowering and makes individuals feel as though they have a measure of control over the world around them. But there is simply no evidence that prayers are anything more than a placebo. And unlike many placebos, prayer can actually be harmful.

The "power of prayer" is one of the most insidious and even harmful beliefs proffered by religion. When faced with any sort of tragedy or misfortune, prayer is one of the least helpful responses imaginable.
Prayer is like gambling when your prayer is answered you tell everyone when you are ignored you keep it a secret.
These are the main athiest points thank you.

Offline Hayalilaydaa

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Re: Proof
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2018, 05:11:42 PM »
Is actually anyone here who was a atheist and used these arguemnts? Like can someone refute them on this oage ?

Online Sama

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Re: Proof
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2018, 07:18:40 PM »


I don't know what you are talking about, but he can't follow simple logic.
The Materialist God-rejector said:
"It's easy to impose a design upon things that exist by chance or developed through a natural process like evolution.
"
a-He claimed design is formed without a creator/designer !
b- He claimed creation is formed by "chance" !!
c- He claimed natural processes can "create".!
No one with even half-functioning brain would say that !
This should be slapped and told: There is no evidence you have been slapped !!

lbn Ata' As-Sakandari  said, "O  Allah! How can they cite  what  needs  You  as  an  evidence  for  You?!  Is there anything more evident than You to be cited as an evidence for You?!  When  did  You cease  watching  the  world  that we  need  an evidence  for  Your  existence?!  And how far did you go that now we have to pursue Your traces to find You?!  How can He be veiled while He disclosed everything?!  How can He be veiled while He is evident anywhere?!  How  can  He  be  veiled   while  He  is  the  ever Evident  and the only One Who has no peer?! How can He be veiled while He is nearer to us than anything else?! How can He be veiled while we owe our existence to Him?

Once, an atheist teacher said to his disciples, "only what you see really exists.  They answered, 'yes.' You notice the tablet, the pen, the notebook and the chair?  All of them are visible and touchable, aren't they?' 'Yes,' They replied.  Then he said, do you see God?  They replied, no. hence, God doesn't exist. The students were perplexed, because they believed in the existence of Allah by heart. Meanwhile, Allah disclosed the falsehood of these teachers at the hands of one of his disciples. A student after having permission   asked, do you understand what the teacher has said, they said, yes.  Ok, do you see the teacher now?  Yes, they replied.  Does the teacher have a mind? 'Yes,' they answered. 'Do you see his mind?' They said, 'No,' he said, following the teacher method i.e., "Only what we see does exist." Our teacher has no mind because it is invisible.  Then, all students laughed and the teacher was amazed and never mentioned that again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4E_bT4ecgk

If this Human reject his creator, he has to find another body and universe to live in !