Author Topic: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?  (Read 17648 times)

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Offline thaha

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rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« on: August 17, 2012, 05:07:13 AM »
Alhamdulillah!!..Brother Osma's site giving a wonder full and completely truth full regarding to Islam.It will increase every muslims confidence and reflect it is from Allah almighty.May Allah bless him.

My Doubt wasn't regarding to comparaive religion, but confusion due to "Ahlul Quran" Sector.Anybody please share link regarding to rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?...I was studying about them and found their some argument's are senseless.But some cases like "Salamu alaikum or assalamu alaikum?" topics make little bit confusion.

Offline Final Overture

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 05:09:12 AM »
What is Ahlul Quran?
«We were the lowest of all people and then Allah gave us glory by Islam, and if we seek glory in anything other that what Allah has given us, Allah will disgrace us.» Umar ibn Khattab

Offline Egyptian

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 10:00:45 AM »

This wiki article gives basic information about Ahlul Quran as Quranists ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quranism

Though ,I think, they have gone to he extreme ignoring the importance of Sunna, yet I found some of their critical insight into some of the traditions, to be taken seriously into consideration.

Offline mYucesan

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 10:04:16 AM »
Assalaamun'Aleykum my dearest brothers/sisters.

I looked this up and it seems that Ahlul-Quran are the rejectors of Hadith, so, simply, Quran only.
Truth Sincerity seems to have some questions for them:
Quote
http://truth-sincerity.blogspot.nl/2011/01/ahlul-quran-rejectors-of-hadith.html

May Allah forgive them and Ramadan Mubarak to you all.

Assalaam'un Aleykum,

Offline Final Overture

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2012, 04:39:57 PM »
Wa aleykum assalam
Well, what rebuttal can we give?
Quote
There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.
Qur'an 33:21
«We were the lowest of all people and then Allah gave us glory by Islam, and if we seek glory in anything other that what Allah has given us, Allah will disgrace us.» Umar ibn Khattab

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2012, 05:35:48 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers and sisters in Islam,

Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac11.htm#links.  It's about the Islamic Cults out there.  I think it will be helpful for you regarding this topic, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline thaha

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2012, 12:23:12 PM »
Jazhak allah brother Osama..thanks for your reply

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2012, 03:00:03 PM »
Your welcome, akhi (brother) in Islam.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2012, 12:35:21 PM »
"He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian." [4:80]

Offline parsian22

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2012, 11:46:39 AM »
It is an obligation upon us to follow the Sunnah:

"And obey Allah and the Messenger, that ye may obtain mercy." (Qur'ân 3:132)

Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the Message) in the clearest manner. (Qur'ân 5:92)

O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (Qur'ân 4:59)

Say: “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance.(Qur'ân 24:54)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 11:50:08 AM by parsian22 »

Offline Tanveer

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2012, 02:48:12 PM »
Has anyone come across the quransist saying that the hadiths and sunnah are a satanic innovation because the quran says its already a detailed scripture (which i dont dispute)? But surely if the Quran addressed EVERY single problem then how big do you think the quran would be?

Offline There is only one God

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2012, 01:10:34 AM »
It is an obligation upon us to follow the Sunnah:

"And obey Allah and the Messenger, that ye may obtain mercy." (Qur'ân 3:132)

Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the Message) in the clearest manner. (Qur'ân 5:92)

O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (Qur'ân 4:59)

Say: “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance.(Qur'ân 24:54)


Ok. Those quotes never said to follow Satanic Jew corrupted Hadith. What the prophet's teachings were, are all in the Qur'an.


"Has anyone come across the quransist saying that the hadiths and sunnah are a satanic innovation because the quran says its already a detailed scripture (which i dont dispute)? But surely if the Quran addressed EVERY single problem then how big do you think the quran would be?"

How could a book that says Prophet Musa (pbuh) slapped the angel of death to prevent death ever be useful? If the Qur'an addressed every single problem - It already does.

Offline Tanveer

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2012, 03:42:17 AM »
'As for the story of Prophet Musa with the Angel of death, it is a sound story reported by Al Bukhari, Muslim, Ahmad and Al Nasai: from Abu Huraira that the Prophet said: "The Angel of Death was sent to Moses when he came to Moses. Moses SLAPPED him on the eye. The angel returned to his Lord and said, "You have sent me to a Slave who does not want to die". Allah said, "Return to him and tell him to put his hand on the back of an ox and for every hair that will come under it, he will be granted one year of life". Moses said, "O Lord! What will happen after that?" Allah replied, "Then death". Moses said, "Let it come now". Moses then requested Allah to let him die close to the Sacred Land so much so that he would be at a distance of a stone's throw from it". Abu Huraira added, "Allah's Apostle said, 'If I were there, I would show you his grave below the red sand hill on the side of the road".
Al Nawawi said: "It is also possible that Allah did not send the angel of death when he wanted to terminate his life. It might have been only a test. Prophet Musa might have slapped the man because he was a stranger who got into his house without his consent, ignoring that he was in fact the angel of death. It is lawful in Sharia to take out the eye of the person who looks inside your house without your consent. It is known that the angels came in the form of men to Prophets Ibrahim and Lut (Peace and blessing be upon them) and they did not recognize them. Prophet Ibrahim presented them something to eat before they told him who they were. Prophet Musa also might not have recognized the Angel. But when he come the second time with his eye in its place Prophet Musa recognized him and submitted himself to Allah's Will.
To conclude, we say that the Muslim should believe in these Ahadith and the like, as revelation from Allah The Almighty. If the person's mind and reasoning are short of making him understand the revealed message, he should know that the defect is not in the Sharia it is in his own mind and reasoning as Sharia could include some facts that could not be perceived and fully understood by the human mind.
We ask Allah to guide you to the right path.
Allah knows best.' Did you even bother to check what scholars had to say? Or did you think 'Oh look! Something to bash sunnis with?'


Why did Allah bother to send the Prophet PBUH to teach us the Quran? Why do we need school teachers to teach us something? The Quran is fully detailed. What are you trying to put across? Just because something is fully detailed doesnt mean that everyone will be able to fully understand it. Thats why we refer to the Prophet's PBUH sunnah. I could go to waterstones today and get some random book on genetics. Most of it i wouldnt understand. Id need my teacher to help me understand. Just because i consulted a secondary source (the teacher) on a primary source (the book) doesnt mean the usefullness or the amount of detail in the book has suffered. Same with us and the actions of the Prophet PBUH. Just because we turn to his actions to help us interpret the Quran doesnt mean that we have made the Quran useless and divineless.


'And indeed, you are of great moral character' 68:4
'There has certainly been for you in the messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last DAy and [who] remembers Allah often.' 33:21
These two verses say the Prophet has an excellent pattern and great moral character. Dont you want to be of great moral character and give an excellent pattern (example)?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 03:45:31 AM by Tanveer »

Offline Din Yaqin

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2016, 06:06:55 PM »
I consider myself to be closes to the Ahlul-Quran. I was a Quranist for over 10 years and did my best to answer all angles, all questions and all criticisms of Quranists themselves and those who do not find the Quranist position to be valid.  The only reason I am not a Hadeeth rejector in full is because of this following quote of Imam Al-Bazdawi which coincides with most of the Sunnies position on Aaahad hadeeth. 

Imam al Bazdawi (RH) said: “The Wahid provides necessity in actions but not with ‘ilm (certain knowledge), and we explained that mashoor doesn’t provide ‘ilm, so āhād or Wahid certainly does not. The Wahid does, however, have possibility and he who denies this has misguided his mind and himself.”

Please check out the following forum link and related topics for further clarification.

Read more: http://quranists.proboards.com/thread/44/proof-saheeh-hadeeth-conjecture#ixzz49EpleNJP

With that said, NO hadeeth should have extra-quranic religious authority. Mutawaatir hadeeth MUST apparently coincide with the mutawaatir Qur'an. And NO Ahaad hadeeth or practice (saheeh or otherwise) should be declared obligatory upon any Muslim because of the possiblity that it could be false. The gravity of making such claims of certainty and obligation when it comes to even saheeh hadeeth and mash-hood pratices is the follow mutawaatir hadeeth:

“Whoever tells a lie against me deliberately, let him take his place in Hell.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 107; Muslim, 3; Abu Dawood, 3651; al-Tirmidhi, 2661; Ibn Maajah, 30, 37; and Ahmad, 2/159.

This hadeeth was narrated by more than seventy-two Sahaabah, and was narrated from them by a huge number of narrators whom it is impossible to list.

6:112 affirms this. The Quran also speaks about false testimony and adhering to conjecture in our religion.

We CANNOT obligate any non-mutawaatir hadeeth upon ANY Muslim because if we do so, it is possible that we are obligating people to follow falsehood and not true. And we are obligating them to follow doubt and conjecture and not certainty and knowledge.

With that said let's continue to talk about whether these non-mutawaatir hadeeth really represent the prophet Muhammad (saas) and his true companions? Let's talk about the books and sayings attributed to scholars that were passed down in an non-mutawaatir fashion and whether we should really be claiming that these scholar said these things.

Ahaad hadeeth can ONLY be optional and should only be accepted when they enhance and improve our adherence to the Quran, plain and simple. And even when accepted by some, they CANNOT be made obligatory upon any Muslims as has been happening in the Muslims world for a millenia.

Offline Din Yaqin

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Re: rebuttal on Ahlul Quran's Claim?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2016, 06:10:35 PM »
To clarify I agree with the majority orthodox, shia and ibadhi opinon that Ahaad hadeeth can be true. Howevever, I disagree that they are obligatory upon the Muslim IN ANY FASHION, because it is almost unanimously recognized that these hadeeth can be false and that they are conjectural and only convey doubt.