Author Topic: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:  (Read 13946 times)

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Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« on: October 20, 2012, 04:11:31 PM »
Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648
This hadith has been getting on my nerves, I know Answering Christianity has done a rebuttal response on Ali Sina's theory that this Hadith proves that women before islam had more rights than women after islam. I seriously didn't understand when ANswering islam replied, can someone please clarify for me?
Thanks
Peace

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2012, 09:41:54 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

Can you please post the Hadith in question along with your thoughts or concerns regarding it?

Thank you akhi (brother).

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2012, 02:46:19 PM »
Sure: the Hadith itself is (i know its long)


Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas:
I had been eager to ask 'Umar about the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet regarding whom Allah said (in the Qur'an saying): If you two (wives of the Prophet namely Aisha and Hafsa) turn in repentance to Allah your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes) (66.4), till performed the Hajj along with 'Umar (and on our way back from Hajj) he went aside (to answer the call of nature) and I also went aside along with him carrying a tumbler of water. When he had answered the call of nature and returned. I poured water on his hands from the tumbler and he performed ablution. I said, "O Chief of the believers! ' Who were the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet to whom Allah said:
'If you two return in repentance (66.4)? He said, "I am astonished at your question, O Ibn 'Abbas. They were Aisha and Hafsa."
Then 'Umar went on relating the narration and said. "I and an Ansari neighbor of mine from Bani Umaiya bin Zaid who used to live in 'Awali Al-Medina, used to visit the Prophet in turns. He used to go one day, and I another day. When I went I would bring him the news of what had happened that day regarding the instructions and orders and when he went, he used to do the same for me. We, the people of Quraish, used to have authority over women, but when we came to live with the Ansar, we noticed that the Ansari women had the upper hand over their men, so our women started acquiring the habits of the Ansari women. Once I shouted at my wife and she paid me back in my coin and I disliked that she should answer me back. She said, 'Why do you take it ill that I retort upon you? By Allah, the wives of the Prophet retort upon him, and some of them may not speak with him for the whole day till night.' What she said scared me and I said to her, 'Whoever amongst them does so, will be a great loser.' Then I dressed myself and went to Hafsa and asked her, 'Does any of you keep Allah's Apostle angry all the day long till night?' She replied in the affirmative. I said, 'She is a ruined losing person (and will never have success)! Doesn't she fear that Allah may get angry for the anger of Allah's Apostle and thus she will be ruined? Don't ask Allah's Apostle too many things, and don't retort upon him in any case, and don't desert him. Demand from me whatever you like, and don't be tempted to imitate your neighbor (i.e. 'Aisha) in her behavior towards the Prophet), for she (i.e. Aisha) is more beautiful than you, and more beloved to Allah's Apostle.

In those days it was rumored that Ghassan, (a tribe living in Sham) was getting prepared their horses to invade us. My companion went (to the Prophet on the day of his turn, went and returned to us at night and knocked at my door violently, asking whether I was sleeping. I was scared (by the hard knocking) and came out to him. He said that a great thing had happened. I asked him: What is it? Have Ghassan come? He replied that it was worse and more serious than that, and added that Allah's Apostle had divorced all his wives. I said, Hafsa is a ruined loser! I expected that would happen some day.' So I dressed myself and offered the Fajr prayer with the Prophet. Then the Prophet entered an upper room and stayed there alone. I went to Hafsa and found her weeping. I asked her, 'Why are you weeping? Didn't I warn you? Have Allah's Apostle divorced you all?' She replied, 'I don't know. He is there in the upper room.' I then went out and came to the pulpit and found a group of people around it and some of them were weeping. Then I sat with them for some time, but could not endure the situation. So I went to the upper room where the Prophet was and requested to a black slave of his: "Will you get the permission of (Allah's Apostle) for Umar (to enter)? The slave went in, talked to the Prophet about it and came out saying, 'I mentioned you to him but he did not reply.' So, I went and sat with the people who were sitting by the pulpit, but I could not bear the situation, so I went to the slave again and said: "Will you get he permission for Umar? He went in and brought the same reply as before. When I was leaving, behold, the slave called me saying, "Allah's Apostle has granted you permission." So, I entered upon the Prophet and saw him lying on a mat without wedding on it, and the mat had left its mark on the body of the Prophet, and he was leaning on a leather pillow stuffed with palm fires. I greeted him and while still standing, I said: "Have you divorced your wives?' He raised his eyes to me and replied in the negative. And then while still standing, I said chatting: "Will you heed what I say, 'O Allah's Apostle! We, the people of Quraish used to have the upper hand over our women (wives), and when we came to the people whose women had the upper hand over them..."
'Umar told the whole story (about his wife). "On that the Prophet smiled." 'Umar further said, "I then said, 'I went to Hafsa and said to her: Do not be tempted to imitate your companion ('Aisha) for she is more beautiful than you and more beloved to the Prophet.' The Prophet smiled again. When I saw him smiling, I sat down and cast a glance at the room, and by Allah, I couldn't see anything of importance but three hides. I said (to Allah's Apostle) "Invoke Allah to make your followers prosperous for the Persians and the Byzantines have been made prosperous and given worldly luxuries, though they do not worship Allah?' The Prophet was leaning then (and on hearing my speech he sat straight) and said, 'O Ibn Al-Khatttab! Do you have any doubt (that the Hereafter is better than this world)? These people have been given rewards of their good deeds in this world only.' I asked the Prophet . 'Please ask Allah's forgiveness for me. The Prophet did not go to his wives because of the secret which Hafsa had disclosed to 'Aisha, and he said that he would not go to his wives for one month as he was angry with them when Allah admonished him (for his oath that he would not approach Mariyah). When twenty-nine days had passed, the Prophet went to Aisha first of all. She said to him, 'You took an oath that you would not come to us for one month, and today only twenty-nine days have passed, as I have been counting them day by day.' The Prophet said, 'The month is also of twenty-nine days.' That month consisted of twenty-nine days. 'Aisha said, 'When the Divine revelation of Choice was revealed, the Prophet started with me, saying to me, 'I am telling you something, but you needn't hurry to give the reply till you can consult your parents." 'Aisha knew that her parents would not advise her to part with the Prophet . The Prophet said that Allah had said:--
'O Prophet! Say To your wives; If you desire The life of this world And its glitter, ... then come! I will make a provision for you and set you free In a handsome manner. But if you seek Allah And His Apostle, and The Home of the Hereafter, then Verily, Allah has prepared For the good-doers amongst you A great reward.' (33.28) 'Aisha said, 'Am I to consult my parents about this? I indeed prefer Allah, His Apostle, and the Home of the Hereafter.' After that the Prophet gave the choice to his other wives and they also gave the same reply as 'Aisha did."



My question are:
1. What is what is the oath that he would not approach Mariyah?
2. It it was not for the oath what did God admonish him for?
3. What did Umar mean by: "We, the people of Quraish used to have the upper hand over our women (wives), and when we came to the people whose women had the upper hand over them." I though women in pre islamic arabia were treated horribly, so why it in medina they had the "upper hand"
4.  Did the prophet love AIsha more than Hafsa becaus of her beauty "Do not be tempted to imitate your companion ('Aisha) for she is more beautiful than you and more beloved to the Prophet."
5. The prophet owned a slave?

thank you
peace

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2012, 02:59:03 PM »
I heard from the islamophobes and anti islamists that this proves that pre islamic arabia women had more rights, also they use this to prove the affair that the prophet commited adultery with mariyah. I know this is bull, so what does it really mean?
i have another question "what waws the secret that hafsa disclosed to aisha?

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 12:41:06 PM »
As-Salamu `Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh akhi,
Where did you read this Hadith? This is what I got, "For one year I wanted to ask `Umar about the two women who helped each other against the Prophet but I was afraid of him. One day he dismounted his riding animal and went among the trees of Arak to answer the call of nature, and when he returned, I asked him and he said, "(They were) `Aisha and Hafsa." Then he added, "We never used to give significance to ladies in the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, but when Islam came and Allah mentioned their rights, we used to give them their rights but did not allow them to interfere in our affairs. Once there was some dispute between me and my wife and she answered me back in a loud voice. I said to her, 'Strange! You can retort in this way?' She said, 'Yes. Do you say this to me while your daughter troubles Allah's Apostle?' So I went to Hafsa and said to her, 'I warn you not to disobey Allah and His Apostle.' I first went to Hafsa and then to Um Salama and told her the same. She said to me, 'O `Umar! It surprises me that you interfere in our affairs so much that you would poke your nose even into the affairs of Allah's Apostle and his wives.' So she rejected my advice. There was an Ansari man; whenever he was absent from Allah's Apostle and I was present there, I used to convey to him what had happened (on that day), and when I was absent and he was present there, he used to convey to me what had happened as regards news from Allah's Apostle . During that time all the rulers of the nearby lands had surrendered to Allah's Apostle except the king of Ghassan in Sham, and we were afraid that he might attack us. All of a sudden the Ansari came and said, 'A great event has happened!' I asked him, 'What is it? Has the Ghassani (king) come?' He said, 'Greater than that! Allah's Apostle has divorced his wives! I went to them and found all of them weeping in their dwellings, and the Prophet had ascended to an upper room of his. At the door of the room there was a slave to whom I went and said, "Ask the permission for me to enter." He admitted me and I entered to see the Prophet lying on a mat that had left its imprint on his side. Under his head there was a leather pillow stuffed with palm fires. Behold! There were some hides hanging there and some grass for tanning. Then I mentioned what I had said to Hafsa and Um Salama and what reply Um Salama had given me. Allah's Apostle smiled and stayed there for twenty nine days and then came down."
Where is Mariyah mentioned?
Where does it state Islam deprived females from rights they had had? It actually states the complete opposite.
Akhi, tell those people that they cannot just take any Hadith they like and play around with it as they want. You have to know the whole story behind it. For example, can you comment on two talking in a converstation you heard bits of and do not even know the whole story or incident behind?

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 02:36:32 PM »
Peace
My 2 sources are here:
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/46
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/043-sbt.php

I really wanted to know the meaning of these, where did you get YOUR hadith from, these 2 sources are what the g
hadith says, word for word.
i really didn;t understand the meaning, thats why i asked
PS. U still did't answer my questions.
Salam/Peace

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 10:08:21 PM »
I got it from www.sunnah.com. Allah willing, I will do more research on them when we get back home.

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2012, 06:56:09 AM »
I also got my source form Sunna.com as you can see from my sources

Offline Final Overture

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« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 10:01:33 AM by Final Overture »
«We were the lowest of all people and then Allah gave us glory by Islam, and if we seek glory in anything other that what Allah has given us, Allah will disgrace us.» Umar ibn Khattab

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 01:42:56 PM »
Maria the Copt was either a concubine or a wife of the Messenger of Allah (may Almighty Allah bless him and grant him peace).
The oath was to never approach Maria. I have my doubts about the story's authenticy (and Almighty Allah knows best of course) because of the narrator being Muhammad ibn Ishaq, an unreliable one.

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2012, 10:57:09 AM »
Just asking, where does it say that muhammad ibn ishaq is one of the narrators, and where EXACTLY did u get that Hadith that u posted, u mentioned sunna.com but that's where i got mine, can u please give me that EXACT link.

Offline Final Overture

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2012, 01:52:47 PM »
Just asking, where does it say that muhammad ibn ishaq is one of the narrators, and where EXACTLY did u get that Hadith that u posted, u mentioned sunna.com but that's where i got mine, can u please give me that EXACT link.
He got it from: http://sunnah.com/urn/54830

Did you check the links?
«We were the lowest of all people and then Allah gave us glory by Islam, and if we seek glory in anything other that what Allah has given us, Allah will disgrace us.» Umar ibn Khattab

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2012, 03:01:43 AM »
Muhammad bin Ishaq did not narrate the Hadith. There are two different opinions on what the verse mentioned in the Hadith said. One is mentioned by Muhammad bin Ishaq which includes Maria the Copt, whereas the other has completely other narration.

By the way, if Maria was the wife of the Messenger of Allah (may Almighty Allah bless him and grant him peace) or even his concubine, having sexual relations with her is not unlawful or illegal, and my evidence is the fifth to seventh verses from Surah Al-Mu'minun, where Almighty Allah lists the attributes of the righteous and successful believers, and He states, "And they who guard their private parts except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they will not be blamed - but whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors." [23:5-7]


Concubines are what is referred to as what 'their right hands posses'. A clearer interpretation would be that of Yusuf Ali, where he states, "Who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame, but those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors." [23:5-7]

Hope that answered your questions, akhi. :)