Author Topic: Very Improtant: Refuting answering-islam.com on Iron Mircale in Noble Quran  (Read 7034 times)

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Offline parsian22

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Al-salam ´alaykum wa rahmatullah wa baarakatuh.

You can find here one of the Miracles of Noble Quran:

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/562/

BUT our enemy: answering-islam.com made a rebuttal to this

They wrote:

خَلَقَكُم مِّن نَّفۡسٍ۬ وَٲحِدَةٍ۬ ثُمَّ جَعَلَ مِنۡہَا زَوۡجَهَا وَأَنزَلَ لَكُم مِّنَ ٱلۡأَنۡعَـٰمِ ثَمَـٰنِيَةَ أَزۡوَٲجٍ۬‌ۚ يَخۡلُقُكُمۡ فِى بُطُونِ أُمَّهَـٰتِڪُمۡ خَلۡقً۬ا مِّنۢ بَعۡدِ خَلۡقٍ۬ فِى ظُلُمَـٰتٍ۬ ثَلَـٰثٍ۬‌ۚ ذَٲلِكُمُ ٱللَّهُ رَبُّكُمۡ لَهُ ٱلۡمُلۡكُ‌ۖ لَآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ‌ۖ فَأَنَّىٰ تُصۡرَفُونَ (٦)  Quran 39:6

It say : anzala lakum

So they say that the cattles were also sent down just like the iron.

APPENDIX

History testifies to the fact that other ancient cultures, e.g. the Egyptians, Sumerians and Hittites witnessed the fall of meteorites and revered them as heavenly gifts/sacred objects:

Throughout the ages, meteorites were venerated as sacred objects by different cultures and ancient civilizations. The spectacular fall of a meteorite, accompanied by light and sound phenomena, such as falling stars, smoke, thunder, and sonic booms, has always kindled the human imagination, evoking fear and awe in everyone who witnesses such an event. For obvious reasons, the remnants of these incidents, the actual meteorites, were often kept as sacred stones or objects of power. They were worshiped, and used in their respective religious ceremonies.8

More to the point, some of these meteorites naturally had iron in them and thus made some tribes aware of iron’s connection with the sky:

Actually, several Native American tribes venerated pieces and fragments of the Canyon Diablo meteorite, a giant iron meteorite that excavated Arizona's famous Meteor Crater upon its impact about 50,000 years ago. Archaeological finds throughout the United States and Mexico, proved that Canyon Diablo fragments had been traded briskly centuries before Columbus reached the shores of the New World.

The discovery of iron in the meteorites did not only make ancient civilizations aware of the fact that iron was “sent down” from the sky, but also taught them that these fallen stones were the best source of iron:

Iron meteorites provided iron for people to use for tools and weapons before the art of smelting was known. Finding such meteorites was rare and the ancients did understand the meteorites connection with sky. This was evidenced in the names given them. The ancient Egyptians called meteorites the "stone of heaven." The oldest Sumerian word for iron meant "sky" and "fire." The Hittites, one of the first to use weapons from smelted terrestrial iron, called the metal "fire from heaven." The Assyrians too, extracted iron from ore and called it "fragment from heaven."

Offline Egyptian

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Assalamoalaikom Bro Parsian


The issue right here ,has several aspects :

1- The linguestic factor "the meaning of the word (anzalna)" in the verse and all the other quranic verses.

2- the scientific factor "Is there a clear scientific proof that iron came from space.

3- Is the concept of "Iron came from space" predate the Quran .

4- Is there a problem at all ,if a muslim doesn't believe that the quranic Iron verse ,has no scientific foreknowledge?

............................

First : and most important ,let's answer the 4th question:

there is no problem at all for a muslim not to believe that the verse contains scientific foreknowledge ..
so the best that critics have regarding that verse is to demonstrate ,not a flawed verse but a flawed muslim understanding..so who cares?!

.... 
the linguestic factor will be discussed in next post inshallah.....


peace

« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 08:28:26 am by Egyptian »

Offline parsian22

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Salam alaykum dear brother Egyptian :)

The 4th aspect is very important.
There is a problem, because this Iron Miracle is used in Dawah, with the verb: anzalna - We have sent down.
Ok? this is clear. But Quran also say that cattles were also sent down "Quran 39:6".  It say: anzala lakum.
So almost all muslims ignore this fact in Quran that not only Iron was sent down but also calltes were.
This clearly shows hypocrisy! How can we use this in Dawah as one of the Biggest Miracles?
What can other people think about us, they think that we are liars!

Aspect 1: Anzalna in other verses of Quran is used for rain, and also for Quran.
Aspect 2: There is scientific proof that Iron came from space.

The answering-islam.com claim that "Iron came from space" predate Quran.

We also must refute this one claim.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 04:30:10 pm by parsian22 »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Aspect 1: Anzalna in other verses of Quran is used for rain, and also for Quran.
Aspect 2: There is scientific proof that Iron came from space.

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Parisan,

There is no inconsistency here.  Allah Almighty sent us all down to this earth.  There are Scientific claims that species did come down to earth, which formed man.  Allah Almighty used the word "JAA'ELUN (جاعل)", which is derived from JA'ALA (جعل) in:

‏2:30 واذ قال ربك للملائكة اني جاعل في الارض خليفة قالوا اتجعل فيها من يفسد فيها ويسفك الدماء ونحن نسبح بحمدك ونقدس لك قال اني اعلم مالاتعلمون

[002:030]  And when thy Lord said unto the angels, 'I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth,' they said, 'Wilt Thou place therein one who will do evil therein and shed blood? we celebrate Thy praise and hallow Thee.' Said (the Lord), 'I know what ye know not.'

The Arabic Word جعل and all of its derivatives, throughout the Noble Quran, was used by Allah Almighty to CREATE SOMETHING IN SYSTEMATIC STAGES.  This is not evolution, for Darwin's people believe that we evolved from animals.  Our bodies did go through changes, but we've always been humans.  I've thoroughly demonstrated from the Noble Quran the uses of this Noble Words and its deravatives in good details at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/sunrise_sunset.htm.

There is no inconcsistency dear brother.  Iron was indeed sent down from space, and Allah Almighty mentioned it, 1,400 years ago.  Without iron, earth would have no gravity, and no core, and life wouldn't be supported in it.  It is very significant, and this is why Allah Almighty mentioned it in the Glorious Quran.  Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah


Offline Egyptian

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Salam alaykum dear brother Egyptian :)

The 4th aspect is very important.
There is a problem, because this Iron Miracle is used in Dawah



And I agree with you , Islam Dawah material should be of quality not merely amount ....
I disagree with some of the zealous muslims who misuse the Quran , to provide far-fetched meanings ,concepts ......
on the other hand the christian missionary preaching is plagued totally with deception ,false claims of prophecies being fulfilled, the sick that been healed etc......

But Quran also say that cattles were also sent down "Quran 39:6".  It say: anzala lakum.

before we check the verse, let's list all the usage of the word (anzalna) in the quran:

1- we sent  the book ,guidance (from heaven). (2:99) ,(5:44) etc.etc.....

2-wrath from heaven (2:59).

3- Angels from heaven (6:9) .etc......

4-rain from heaven  (7:57) etc....

now note:

5- O children of Adam! We have sent you down clothing (7:26 )

6- he sent down to you from the cattle eight in pairs (39:6)

we can make several suggestions for the meaning of the sending down for the 2 previous objects ,still remain the fact ,that the verb "anzalna" can be used with objects not necessarily are sent directly from heaven.....

...................

to sum up I don't think we need to go through the 2nd and 3rd aspect .. the linguestic point should be enough ......
well, that is my opinion (any corrections or additions are most welcomed)

our story ended here?  not at all ... I think the Holy Quran contains impressive scientific verses ,other than that verse (to be discussed in future occasions Inshallah) ....



peace be upon you all



« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 09:15:28 am by Egyptian »

Offline Black Muslim

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1- The linguestic factor "the meaning of the word (anzalna)" in the verse and all the other quranic verses.

The words "Anzalna" in this verse DOES mean sending iron down . Because before it , God said that he sent down the books of the prophets . It's known to every Muslim that the books were indeed descended from heaven . Correct ?

Quote
2- the scientific factor "Is there a clear scientific proof that iron came from space.

There is I believe . But I can't remember where did I read that .

Offline Egyptian

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1- The linguestic factor "the meaning of the word (anzalna)" in the verse and all the other quranic verses.

The words "Anzalna" in this verse DOES mean sending iron down . Because before it , God said that he sent down the books of the prophets .
peace Bro ... and thank you for your comment ....

It is true that in the exact same verse ,the direct sending from heaven is mentioned for another object (God's word) , but the Question ,is it possible that the verb  "Anzalna" be used not necessarily denoting the direct sending from heaven ?  I think I quouted 2 verses suggest so.

May Allah bless you

Offline parsian22

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Al-salam alaykum dear brothers.
Thank you very much for comments and help.
I think that now we have not problem with verb: anzalna. It is Ok.

The last thing what remains is the appendix copied from answering-islam.com
When we will have refuted it, then this topic will be at end.

Insha Allah