Author Topic: The Crucifixion of Judas  (Read 78577 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline jesus.breadoflife

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2013, 08:13:32 pm »
Hi Brother Osama,


So now you agree with me that the Lord Jesus Christ was already an annointed Messiah before the crucifixion.  He wasn't just a mere Prophet and just Jesus.  No, he was the Lord Messiah (Al-Sayyed Al-Maseeh as we say in Arabic).  So, the women coming to the tomb with "spices" is a misleading interpretation and a translation, because there was no need to annoint him in the tomb.  And why would you annoint a dead person to become the Messiah anyway??  So this clearly shows that in Luke 24:1, the women actually came to the tomb (cave which Christ was laying on the floor in) with MEDICINE to the live and hurt Jesus (not a dead one), and not just mere spices.


There is nothing that suggests that the women came to anoint Lord Jesus so that he may become Messiah. It was just common Jewish burial practice to wash the body, wrap it in linen cloth and anointed with spices and oils. A basic definition of the word 'anoint' is 'To apply oil, ointment, or a similar substance'. There are examples in the Bible where anointing is used to sanctify someone such as a King but in the case of a burial, the definition I have given here is the most fitting. 

http://www.ehow.co.uk/info_8493339_jewish-burial-customs-anointing-oils.html



Furthermore, Jesus was never burried.  Burried to us today means that one would be placed in a coffin and burried underground.  This NEVER happened to Jesus.  He was only put in a cave on the floor, wrapped in cloths, and rested there for 3 or so days.  So no burrial occured, which further proves that the Bible here is also speaking in metaphores:


Jesus was buried in a tomb - it was not uncommon in those times. Abraham and Jacob was buried in a tomb as it says in the Bible

Acts 7: 15-16
15 And Jacob went down into Egypt, and he died, he and our fathers, 16 and they were carried back to Shechem and laid in the tomb that Abraham had bought for a sum of silver from the sons of Hamor in Shechem.

Genesis 25:8-9
8 Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people. 9 Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, east of Mamre,

Quote
Your points on http://www.answering-christianity.com/balanced_lies_rebuttal.htm do not look at the verses in the Bible in the same meaning that it was written in. As time does not permit me to go through them all, I shall address a couple for now. Paul is not saying that it would be OK to lie nor did he lie.

Romans 3:7
7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
This is the verse you referrred to and upon reading it, it clearly shows that if I tell a lie in order that God may be glorified, I would be condemned as a sinner irregardless. Paul is talking about a hypothetical situation - note the use of the word 'if'.

Philippians 1:15-18
15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. 16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.

You say that this shows that Paul lied for the sake of the Gospel of Christ. These verses do not show that at all. What Paul says is that he is aware of some who proclaim the name of Lord Jesus for their own selfish ambition. Yet Paul rejoices not in their lies but in the truth that they say - the Gospel of the Lord. How can he not rejoice when the Gospel is spread for the saving of many lives? After all, it is the spirit of God who works in people's hearts - not men whether they be liars or truthful. Those who lie will have to stand before God in judgement.

This is what Paul says in Philippians 1:9-11 9 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, 10 so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. As this is what he believed and urged others to do, he would not lie.

My dear brother, the text is crystal clear about Paul saying that if he had to lie, then he would.  No need to re-translate it and re-interpret it.  Here is what the English translation says:

Philippians 1:15-18
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill.
16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.
17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.


Romans 3:1-8
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much every way: first of all, that they were intrusted with the oracles of God.
3 For what if some were without faith? shall their want of faith make of none effect the faithfulness of God?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be found true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy words, And mightest prevail when thou comest into judgment.
5 But if our righteousness commendeth the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who visiteth with wrath?
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?
8 and why not, Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.

Dear Brother, the Holy Spirit is my witness when I say I did not re-interpret it or retranslate the passage, I just explained in simpler terms. After all, who am I to add to or take away from the word of God? You don't need to look beyond these verses to come to the conclusion I came to. For example, Romans 3:7 - But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? Well, it is 100% clear in this verse that I would still be condemned as a sinner even if a lie I tell is for the glory of God. Similarly, in verses Philippians 1:15-18, the passage is very clear - there is only 1 meaning of this - some people are preaching Christ out of false motives - 'envy and rivalry' so that 'they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains'. The lying that you refer to is the 'false motives' that Paul describes. This says that the lie is that people pretend they preach out of goodwill but it is actually for their 'selfish ambition'.They are competing with Paul whilst he is imprisoned. Paul is saying he doesn't care (i.e. about the envy and rivalry) but he rejoices as Christ is preached.  I just cannot see from where you got the idea that Paul would lie if he had to.


So as we clearly see, Yahweh Almighty Himself supposedly tricked the enemies of David into thinking that Samuel came to sacrifice, when in actuality this wasn't his primary purpose and mission.  His primary mission was to annoint David, which was kept hidden under the Command of GOD Almighty.

Yes, God did not allow Samuel to reveal His plans to Saul. Why would he? It wasn't the time when God wanted David to be revealed as the King of Israel. That is not the same as lying.


Furthermore, did not GOD Almighty send LYING SPIRITS THAT CAUSED PEOPLE TO LIE many times in the Old Testament?

This is the passage that you are referring to:
1 Kings 22:17-23
17 Then Micaiah answered, “I saw all Israel scattered on the hills like sheep without a shepherd, and the Lord said, ‘These people have no master. Let each one go home in peace.’”
 
18 The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “Didn’t I tell you that he never prophesies anything good about me, but only bad?”
 
19 Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’

“One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’
 
22 “‘By what means?’ the Lord asked.

“‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.

“‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’
 
23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”


King Ahab wants to go to battle and he was Jehoshaphat to go with him. Jehoshaphat wants to ask the Lord before going for battle so the King calls out 400 false prophets and they all say that the King will be victorious. Jehoshaphat is not convinced and he wants to hear from a prophet of the Lord and therefore Micaiah is called. He prophesied disaster.

We can see that King Ahab, unlike Jehoshaphat, had already made up his mind to do what was against the will of God (i.e. go to war) before he had even heard from the prophet of the Lord. God permitted a a lying spirit to be in all the false prophets. This highlights the absolute sovereignty over all things. Even the lying spirit cannot do anything unless God allows them to. If someone wants to commit a murder, they may have that spirit of Satan in him but it is there because God allowed it to be there. If someone is not under the mighty hand of God, they are open to attack - this due to the choices made by people to turn away from God. God protects all who trust in his name - he protects them from Satan, from people etc. However, Satan is free to destroy those who are not the children of God - and yes, Satan cannot do anything unless God allows it to happen. But you can see that the Spirit of God did not lie to Ahab - Micaiah prophesied disaster and revealed everything.

I am aware that it says the Quran that it appeared to them that Jesus was crucified. Well, if that were true, Allah would be lying. Also, there is absolutely no reason why this 'false vision' would be of any use to anyone.

My discussion with you, dear brother, is based on what the New Testament currently says.  And even with what the New Testament says, we can clearly see that Christ never died.

The New Testament does say that Jesus died in many places one of which is below.

Mark 15:37-39
37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.
38 The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how he died,[a] he said, Surely this man was the Son of God!

All authority was given to Jesus here on earth, and earth only, by GOD Almighty.  GOD Almighty made him the heir of earth:

This is not entirely true.

Mathew 28:18
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Also, if you accept that all authority on earth had been given to Jesus, why would you refrain from believing what he said and obeying his commands concerning baptism etc ? Yes, the greatest command is to love God. Firstly, to love God means to do his will. Secondly, obeying the greatest commandment does not mean that one is allowed to diregard the others - James 2:10 - For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

When Jesus came to the Earth, he came to do the will of the Father and did everything through His Holy Spirit. No one denies that. Before he was born as a man, he was in the same nature of God but he hold onto his equality with God but left that to come to Earth for the salvation of mankind.

Philippians 2:6-11

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.


Yes, Jesus did not want to be exalted by men when he was a man but as we can see in the New Testament, he was worshipped after his resurrection when he was no longer of human form.

Dear brothers and sisters, I urge to to seek God's voice for yourself. The Bible speaks of prophets and men of God but their testimony is their own. The Bible shows us the glory of God but we must all seek the God for ourselves and listen to His voice. I was only able to accept the Bible as the word of God after it God revealed it to me. I don't expect that you will listen to my voice and I wouldn't ask you to; but you must listen to the voice of God.

Mathew 11:25
25 At that time Jesus said, I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
 
27 All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.


If we are wise in our own eyes, the Spirit of God will not work in us. Let us be like children and so that we may hear God's voice.
 
And it is the voice of the Lord that lead me to where I now stand in Christ from whom nothing can separate me. I pray that God may do the same for you.

God bless you all.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 03:26:37 pm by jesus.breadoflife »

Offline adnaanshaikh195

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2013, 08:44:02 am »
Hi Brother Osama,


So now you agree with me that the Lord Jesus Christ was already an annointed Messiah before the crucifixion.  He wasn't just a mere Prophet and just Jesus.  No, he was the Lord Messiah (Al-Sayyed Al-Maseeh as we say in Arabic).  So, the women coming to the tomb with "spices" is a misleading interpretation and a translation, because there was no need to annoint him in the tomb.  And why would you annoint a dead person to become the Messiah anyway??  So this clearly shows that in Luke 24:1, the women actually came to the tomb (cave which Christ was laying on the floor in) with MEDICINE to the live and hurt Jesus (not a dead one), and not just mere spices.


There is nothing that suggests that the women came to anoint Lord Jesus so that he may become Messiah. It was just common Jewish burial practice to wash the body, wrap it in linen cloth and anointed with spices and oils. A basic definition of the word 'anoint' is 'To apply oil, ointment, or a similar substance'. There are examples in the Bible where anointing is used to sanctify someone such as a King but in the case of a burial, the definition I have given here is the most fitting. 

http://www.ehow.co.uk/info_8493339_jewish-burial-customs-anointing-oils.html



Furthermore, Jesus was never burried.  Burried to us today means that one would be placed in a coffin and burried underground.  This NEVER happened to Jesus.  He was only put in a cave on the floor, wrapped in cloths, and rested there for 3 or so days.  So no burrial occured, which further proves that the Bible here is also speaking in metaphores:


Jesus was buried in a tomb - it was not uncommon in those times. Abraham and Jacob was buried in a tomb as it says in the Bible

Acts 7: 15-16
15 And Jacob went down into Egypt, and he died, he and our fathers, 16 and they were carried back to Shechem and laid in the tomb that Abraham had bought for a sum of silver from the sons of Hamor in Shechem.

Genesis 25:8-9
8 Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people. 9 Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, east of Mamre,

Quote
Your points on http://www.answering-christianity.com/balanced_lies_rebuttal.htm do not look at the verses in the Bible in the same meaning that it was written in. As time does not permit me to go through them all, I shall address a couple for now. Paul is not saying that it would be OK to lie nor did he lie.

Romans 3:7
7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
This is the verse you referrred to and upon reading it, it clearly shows that if I tell a lie in order that God may be glorified, I would be condemned as a sinner irregardless. Paul is talking about a hypothetical situation - note the use of the word 'if'.

Philippians 1:15-18
15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. 16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.

You say that this shows that Paul lied for the sake of the Gospel of Christ. These verses do not show that at all. What Paul says is that he is aware of some who proclaim the name of Lord Jesus for their own selfish ambition. Yet Paul rejoices not in their lies but in the truth that they say - the Gospel of the Lord. How can he not rejoice when the Gospel is spread for the saving of many lives? After all, it is the spirit of God who works in people's hearts - not men whether they be liars or truthful. Those who lie will have to stand before God in judgement.

This is what Paul says in Philippians 1:9-11 9 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, 10 so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. As this is what he believed and urged others to do, he would not lie.

My dear brother, the text is crystal clear about Paul saying that if he had to lie, then he would.  No need to re-translate it and re-interpret it.  Here is what the English translation says:

Philippians 1:15-18
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill.
16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.
17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.


Romans 3:1-8
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much every way: first of all, that they were intrusted with the oracles of God.
3 For what if some were without faith? shall their want of faith make of none effect the faithfulness of God?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be found true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy words, And mightest prevail when thou comest into judgment.
5 But if our righteousness commendeth the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who visiteth with wrath?
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?
8 and why not, Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.

Dear Brother, the Holy Spirit is my witness when I say I did not re-interpret it or retranslate the passage, I just explained in simpler terms. After all, who am I to add to or take away from the word of God? You don't need to look beyond these verses to come to the conclusion I came to. For example, Romans 3:7 - But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? Similarly, in verses Philippians 1:15-18, the passage is very clear - there is only 1 meaning of this - some people are preaching Christ out of false motives - 'envy and rivalry' so that 'they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains'. The lying that you refer to is the 'false motives' that Paul describes. This says that the lie is that people pretend they preach out of goodwill but it is actually for their 'selfish ambition'.They are competing with Paul whilst he is imprisoned. Paul is saying he doesn't care (i.e. about the envy and rivalry) but he rejoices as Christ is preached.  I just cannot see from where you got the idea that Paul would lie if he had to.

Well, it is 100% clear in this verse that I would still be condemned as a sinner even if a lie I tell is for the glory of God.

So as we clearly see, Yahweh Almighty Himself supposedly tricked the enemies of David into thinking that Samuel came to sacrifice, when in actuality this wasn't his primary purpose and mission.  His primary mission was to annoint David, which was kept hidden under the Command of GOD Almighty.

Yes, God did not allow Samuel to reveal His plans to Saul. Why would he? It wasn't the time when God wanted David to be revealed as the King of Israel. That is not the same as lying.


Furthermore, did not GOD Almighty send LYING SPIRITS THAT CAUSED PEOPLE TO LIE many times in the Old Testament?

This is the passage that you are referring to:
1 Kings 22:17-23
17 Then Micaiah answered, “I saw all Israel scattered on the hills like sheep without a shepherd, and the Lord said, ‘These people have no master. Let each one go home in peace.’”
 
18 The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “Didn’t I tell you that he never prophesies anything good about me, but only bad?”
 
19 Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’

“One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’
 
22 “‘By what means?’ the Lord asked.

“‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.

“‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’
 
23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”


King Ahab wants to go to battle and he was Jehoshaphat to go with him. Jehoshaphat wants to ask the Lord before going for battle so the King calls out 400 false prophets and they all say that the King will be victorious. Jehoshaphat is not convinced and he wants to hear from a prophet of the Lord and therefore Micaiah is called. He prophesied disaster.

We can see that King Ahab, unlike Jehoshaphat, had already made up his mind to do what was against the will of God (i.e. go to war) before he had even heard from the prophet of the Lord. God permitted a a lying spirit to be in all the false prophets. This highlights the absolute sovereignty over all things. Even the lying spirit cannot do anything unless God allows them to. If someone wants to commit a murder, they may have that spirit of Satan in him but it is there because God allowed it to be there. If someone is not under the mighty hand of God, they are open to attack - this due to the choices made by people to turn away from God. God protects all who trust in his name - he protects them from Satan, from people etc. However, Satan is free to destroy those who are not the children of God - and yes, Satan cannot do anything unless God allows it to happen. But you can see that the Spirit of God did not lie to Ahab - Micaiah prophesied disaster and revealed everything.

I am aware that it says the Quran that it appeared to them that Jesus was crucified. Well, if that were true, Allah would be lying. Also, there is absolutely no reason why this 'false vision' would be of any use to anyone.

My discussion with you, dear brother, is based on what the New Testament currently says.  And even with what the New Testament says, we can clearly see that Christ never died.

The New Testament does say that Jesus died in many places one of which is below.

Mark 15:37-39
37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.
38 The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how he died,[a] he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”

All authority was given to Jesus here on earth, and earth only, by GOD Almighty.  GOD Almighty made him the heir of earth:

This is not entirely true.

Mathew 28:18
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Also, if you accept that all authority on earth had been given to Jesus, why would you refrain from believing what he said and obeying his commands concerning baptism etc ? Yes, the greatest command is to love God. Firstly, to love God means to do his will. Secondly, obeying the greatest commandment does not mean that one is allowed to diregard the others - James 2:10 - For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

When Jesus came to the Earth, he came to do the will of the Father and did everything through His Holy Spirit. No one denies that. Before he was born as a man, he was in the same nature of God but he hold onto his equality with God but left that to come to Earth for the salvation of mankind.

Philippians 2:6-11

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.


Yes, Jesus did not want to be exalted by men when he was a man but as we can see in the New Testament, he was worshipped after his resurrection when he was no longer of human form.

Dear brothers and sisters, I urge to to seek God's voice for yourself. The Bible speaks of prophets and men of God but their testimony is their own. The Bible shows us the glory of God but we must all seek the God for ourselves and listen to His voice. I was only able to accept the Bible as the word of God after it God revealed it to me. I don't expect that you will listen to my voice and I wouldn't ask you to; but you must listen to the voice of God.

Mathew 11:25
25 At that time Jesus said, I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
 
27 All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.


If we are wise in our own eyes, the Spirit of God will not work in us. Let us be like children and so that we may hear God's voice.
 
And it is the voice of the Lord that lead me to where I now stand in Christ from whom nothing can separate me. I pray that God may do the same for you.

God bless you all.
Blablabla, Jesus is not God, end off.

Christian 'countries' do not even follow Jesus, they worship him, and their people are full of pornography, homosexuality, paganism, man-made laws, rape, pedophilia, etc.

Worship God alone.

There is none worthy of worship except God alone.

Jesus is Christ is no more than a messenger sent by God.

'Son of God' is an idiom for Servant of God.


Offline jesus.breadoflife

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2013, 12:52:07 pm »
Blablabla, Jesus is not God, end off.

Christian 'countries' do not even follow Jesus, they worship him, and their people are full of pornography, homosexuality, paganism, man-made laws, rape, pedophilia, etc.

Worship God alone.

There is none worthy of worship except God alone.

Jesus is Christ is no more than a messenger sent by God.

'Son of God' is an idiom for Servant of God.

Dear adnaanshaikh195,

If there is anything from my previous post that you wish to address specifically, please feel free to do so.

Jesus is called the begotten Son of God - that he was born by the Holy Spirit (i.e. without a worldly father) and not by the will of flesh.

In John 3:16, Jesus says
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It does not matter what Christian countries do - those who follow Christ from their heart would never engage in the activities you have described. In every religion, there are people who hurt others and sin against God.

Worshipping Jesus is the same as worshipping the Father because they are one.

John 14:11
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

There are many instances where people worshipped Jesus in the Bible.

Mathew 2:11, The wise men who came to see Jesus worshipped him

11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

John 9:38, The blind man worshipped Jesus
38 Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

In John 20, Thomas calls Jesus "God" when he appeared to the disciples after resurrection. Thomas did not believe that Jesus had resurrected after his death and he said he would not believe until he sees for himself.

John 20:24-29
24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
 
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
 
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


Praise the Lord,
God bless you all.

Offline Wizdom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2013, 05:44:37 pm »
Bump

Offline There is only one God

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2013, 09:02:48 am »
Blablabla, Jesus is not God, end off.

Christian 'countries' do not even follow Jesus, they worship him, and their people are full of pornography, homosexuality, paganism, man-made laws, rape, pedophilia, etc.

Worship God alone.

There is none worthy of worship except God alone.

Jesus is Christ is no more than a messenger sent by God.

'Son of God' is an idiom for Servant of God.

Dear adnaanshaikh195,

If there is anything from my previous post that you wish to address specifically, please feel free to do so.

Jesus is called the begotten Son of God - that he was born by the Holy Spirit (i.e. without a worldly father) and not by the will of flesh.

In John 3:16, Jesus says
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It does not matter what Christian countries do - those who follow Christ from their heart would never engage in the activities you have described. In every religion, there are people who hurt others and sin against God.

Worshipping Jesus is the same as worshipping the Father because they are one.

John 14:11
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

There are many instances where people worshipped Jesus in the Bible.

Mathew 2:11, The wise men who came to see Jesus worshipped him

11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

John 9:38, The blind man worshipped Jesus
38 Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

In John 20, Thomas calls Jesus "God" when he appeared to the disciples after resurrection. Thomas did not believe that Jesus had resurrected after his death and he said he would not believe until he sees for himself.

John 20:24-29
24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
 
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
 
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


Praise the Lord,
God bless you all.

Dear Brother Jesus.breadoflife,

You'll have to excuse adnaanshaikh195 here. His primary argument method is "blahblahblah I don't wanna read what you wrote, it probably sucks anyway. I am right. You are just an evil twisted psychopath. Grow up kid". You see, it's really hard coping in debates and discussions when alcohol hits the sweet spot, or as you may know it, the brain.

Offline jesus.breadoflife

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2013, 04:17:20 pm »

Brother Jesus.breadoflife,

You'll have to excuse adnaanshaikh195 here. His primary argument method is "blahblahblah I don't wanna read what you wrote, it probably sucks anyway. I am right. You are just an evil twisted psychopath. Grow up kid". You see, it's really hard coping in debates and discussions when alcohol hits the sweet spot, or as you may know it, the brain.

Let us all submit ourselves into the hands of God who is able to remove our shortfalls. I bear no ill will or anger towards anyone but love you all in Christ.

May the grace of Almighty God be with you.

Offline EDOMS THORN

  • Newbie
  • *
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2013, 08:47:40 pm »
  I know I am off topic here but could you direct my comment to Osama Abdallah - My NOBEL ally in the fight against our COMMON ENEMY, the "SO CALLED JEW" and fellow seeker of the truth!

I was researching an article I am writing titled; "BLATANT ANTI-SEMITE JESUS CHRIST"  when I came upon your Site through this link;  Was Jesus sent to the Jews only, or - Answering Christianity: http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_mankind.htm    Now I do not seek to belittle you or your knowledge, but JESUS was NOT a JEW! That is a "JEWISH FABLE". Jesus knew who those VIPERS were and exposed them, and they wanted to murder Jesus for that.

In your article you quoted from Matthew 10:5-6 and if you read all of it and then the next chapter you will see;  WHAT JESUS DID!
Matthew 11:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. (Their so called, JEWâ„¢ Cities)   JESUS did indeed come to seek the LOST sheep of the (ten Tribes) of ISRAEL and they were not and have NEVER been JEWS! This is a truth the even Christians HATE! The JEWS have infiltrated the Christian Seminaries and Churches, and deceived them, and their pride will not allow them to see the PLAIN truth.

Anyway, I have said that the ARAB People are my ally since 1989, we ALL share a common enemy that seeks to destroy us ALL, They want us to fight and hate each other and those disgusting Christian Zionist's are all to willing to be manipulated by the Vipers that want to bring about the N.W.O.  AT my website I have presented the irrefutable truth that is hated by JEWS and Christians a like! The Christians hate me (A CHRISTAN) because I point out the fact that they have chosen to believe JEWISH FABLES!     

If you find the time check out just WHO those JEWS really are!
http://www.edomsthorn.wordpress.com/edom-the-story-of-jacob-and-esau-is-

PEACE to you and yours

E.T.

Offline Wizdom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2013, 02:33:00 pm »
Bump

Offline QuranSearchCom

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Islam is the Divine Truth!
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2013, 10:52:24 am »
Peace be upon you dear brother Jesus.breadoflife,

You are obviously a victim of the trinitarian blasphemeis.  It's really not that difficult to see from the New Testament how Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, is only a creation of GOD Almighty.

I do not wish to drag this too long, because I have a lot of things to do.  But all of your points above had been soundly and thoroughly refuted at: www.answering-christianity.com/at.htm.


The Doubting Thomas:

-  Doubting Thomas said "My Lord and my God" to Jesus.  Yet, all believers were called "God", and Moses was the "God" of the Believers, Aaron and Pharaoh:

Moses was called "The God" (Exodus 7:1) of the Believers, Aaron and Pharaoh.  Jesus said he was greater than Moses.  Thomas, the Disciple, called Jesus "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).  Jesus denied to be GOD Almighty.  All Believers were called "GODS and Sons of GOD" (Psalm 82:6) in the Bible.  "GOD" in the Bible also means master, leader, priest.  Therefore, the doubting Thomas' statement didn't suggest that Jesus was his Creator.  And Jesus being a "God" doesn't mean that he is GOD Almighty.  He is just another mere "God" like the rest of the believing creations and nothing more.  For ample more details, visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/godtitle.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/son_of_god.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/my_lord_my_god_doubting_thomas.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=1904.msg7673#msg7673




Jesus and the Father are One:

Jesus is one in the Father.  Yes.  But Jesus also said that his followers are one in him, and he is one in them, and they are one in the Father, and all of the Believers are one in the Father [2].  Why did you ignore this part?  Are you deliberatly trying to fool or mislead the reader?



"Son of GOD" Title:

As to Jesus being the so-called "only begotten son of GOD Almighty", yes, and go to the Old Testament to see the other ONLY BEGOTTEN SONS OF GOD ALMIGHTY!  And even the Bible itself defines Son of GOD to mean a Righteous Believer and Servant of GOD Almighty.  Also, Jesus Chist reduced his "Son of GOD" title to be even BELOW the "God" (Elohim) title that is given to every single Believer.  The reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm for ample proofs from the NT.

FRIENDS = SONS:

In fact, we further read the following in the Bible:

Isaiah 41:8
"But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,

Chronicles 20:7
Our God, did you not drive out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel and give it forever to the descendants of Abraham your friend?

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.


So being GOD Almighty's "SON" in the Bible is equal to being GOD Almighty's "FRIEND".  Now compare this to the following from the Holy Quran:

[002:257] Allah is the friend and patron of those who believe. He brings them out of the depths of darkness into light. While those who do not believe, have the forces of evil as their friends; they lead them out of light, into the very depths of darkness. Such ones shall be the inmates of the fire. They will stay there forever.

[003:122] (And remember) when the two groups among you lost heart (and almost fell out), even though Allah was their Friend and Protector? In Allah (alone), should the believers place their trust!

[004:125] Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend.


So the Bible's "FATHER" & "SON" for GOD Almighty and the Believers is clearly metaphoric, and it only means that GOD Almighty:

1-  Is the Protector.
2-  Is the Friend.
3-  Is the Guardian.

Again dear brother, please visit the following link to further see what Words the Glorious Quran uses for these words and definitions:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1368.msg5203.html#msg5203


BEGET = CHOSE:

Regarding the above quote:

Quote
King James Bible Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Let us look at Noble Verses 27:59, 3:33, 3:42, 7:144, 22:75, 35:32, 38:47, 39:4 from the Glorious Quran:

[027:059] Say: Praise be to God, and Peace on his servants whom He has chosen اصطفى (for his Message). (Who) is better?- God or the false gods they associate (with Him)?

‏27:59 قل الحمد لله وسلام على عباده الذين اصطفى ءالله خير اما يشركون

[003:033] God did choose ] اصطفى Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,-

‏3:33 ان الله اصطفى ادم ونوحا وال ابراهيم وال عمران على العالمين

[003:042] Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee اصطفاك and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

‏3:42 واذ قالت الملائكة يامريم ان الله اصطفاك وطهرك واصطفاك على نساء العالمين

[007:144] (God) said: "O Moses! I have chosen thee اصطفيتك above (other) men, by the mission I (have given thee) and the words I (have spoken to thee): take then the (revelation) which I give thee, and be of those who give thanks."

‏7:144 قال ياموسى اني اصطفيتك على الناس برسالاتي وبكلامي فخذ ما اتيتك وكن من الشاكرين

[022:075] God chooses يصطفي messengers from angels and from men for God is He Who hears and sees (all things).

‏22:75 الله يصطفي من الملائكة رسلا ومن الناس ان الله سميع بصير

[035:032] Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our Servants as We have chosen اصطفينا: but there are among them some who wrong their own souls; some who follow a middle course; and some who are, by God's leave, foremost in good deeds; that is the highest Grace.

‏35:32 ثم اورثنا الكتاب الذين اصطفينا من عبادنا فمنهم ظالم لنفسه ومنهم مقتصد ومنهم سابق بالخيرات باذن الله ذلك هو الفضل الكبير

[038:047] They were, in Our sight, truly, of the company of the Elect المصطفين and the Good.

‏38:47 وانهم عندنا لمن المصطفين الاخيار

[039:004] Had God wished to take to Himself an (actual) son, He could have chosen لاصطفى whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is God, the One, the Irresistible.

‏39:4 لو اراد الله ان يتخذ ولدا لاصطفى مما يخلق مايشاء سبحانه هو الله الواحد القهار

Furthermore, when Jesus was asked about when the Hour will come, he replied by saying that only GOD Almighty Knows, and that no one knows, and that Jesus himself also didn't know.  Please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/questions.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac7.htm#links

Jesus spelled it out clearly that he knew NOT.  And as to calling GOD Almighty "Father", and that Islam denies that GOD Almighty is an ACTUAL FATHER to anyone, in Islam GOD Almighty is called:

1-  Rab - Lord, Father (you are the Rab of your home for being the husband and the father).

2-  Wali - Guardian.

In the old Aramaic and Hebrew, GOD Almighty was called what-is-equivalent-to-Islam our Rab and Wali.  But that doesn't make GOD Almighty our actual Father.  This is exactly as Judaism metaphors such as idolatry is equivalent to spiritual adultery.  No Jew is actually married to GOD Almighty to actually commit a personal marriage-adultery against GOD Almighty!  Yet, the Jews use metaphors like these.  Islam came to straighten all of this out and to set the record straight that GOD Almighty has no son and no daughter.  Otherwise, why would GOD Almighty torture us to Hell if we were His perfect sons and daughters??  No imperfect being could be an actual son of GOD Almighty (and no being is the son or daughter of GOD Almighty, period!):

[005:018] (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of God, and his beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to God belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"

Again, please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1368.msg5203.html#msg5203

As to Jesus being worshiped, you know very well that many others in the Old Testament were "worshiped" and bowed down to.  Worshiped in the Bible means to bow to the chosen leader or master and follow him.  It doesn't to pray to him or to worship him as GOD Almighty is Worshiped!  Again, are you trying to fool or mislead the reader with trinity-lies and blasphemies??



Definition of "The Father":

Furthermore, did you know that "Father" in Hebrew means The Supreme GOD Who Knows Everything?  Rabbis and Priests in the Bible and in Judaism are called "Father".  This is where Roman Catholics get the "Father" title for their Priests from.  This is also where Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, was called "Everlasting Father" [1] (Highest Priest or Rabbi or Teacher for being the Messiah and King of the Jews and all Earth) in Isaiah 9:6 [1] [2] [3] [4] comes from.  GOD Almighty being "The Father" means that GOD Almighty is the Supreme and All Knowing GOD Almighty of the Universe.  That's what Father means.  And Son means the Righteous Believer and Follower of GOD Almighty [1].

And again, Jesus Christ being called "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6 doesn't mean that he is GOD Almighty, because throughout the Bible, the Righteous Believers are all called "God" (Elohim) and "Sons of God".  Visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm for ample proofs.

The reason why Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, was called MIGHTY God was because he is the Messiah, and the King of the Jews, and the coming Ruler of the entire Earth who will crush the anti-Christ.  He is the heir of all earth, and ONLY THE EARTH according to the Old and New Testaments of the Bible.  So he is no mere God.  He is a Mighty God.  But he is NOT the Creator of the Universe.  Besides, many Prophets and Angels were also given Mighty Godly Names similar to the one given to Christ.  Visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/godtitle.htm for ample proofs.

Furthermore, the Bible declares that GOD Almighty created us in His Image.  The Bible further defines being in the "Image of GOD" means having the Attributes of GOD Almighty that He, the Almighty, Has put in us, humans.  Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/let_us.htm for ample details and proofs.  This is another reason why GOD Almighty is symbolically called "The Father".  He is the Supreme GOD Almighty who created man in His Image, by giving him some of His Divine Attributes:

Genesis 1:26-27
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.


"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil(From the NIV Bible, Genesis 3:5)"

"and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness(From the NIV Bible, Ephesians 4:24)"

"Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.   (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 7:1)"

"On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them(From the NIV Bible, Zechariah 12:8 )"

Again, please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/let_us.htm for ample more details and proofs.



Jesus had to match Melchizedek:

And furthermore, did you know that Jesus Christ had to be this way (miraculous, has authority, and is powerful), because he needed to match up with Melchizedek?  Melchizedek had no father and no mother (Jesus at least had a mother), and he was the Highest Jewish Priest.  And he was Eternal.  Jesus had to at least be equal to Melchizedek.  See: Genesis 14:18, Psalm 110:4, Hebrews 5:6-10, Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 7:1-20:

Genesis 14:18
18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High,


Psalm 110:4
4 The Lord has sworn
    and will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”



Hebrews 5:6-10
6 And he says in another place,

“You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”[a]

7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered
9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.



Hebrews 6:20
20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.


Hebrews 7:1-20
Melchizedek the Priest
1 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him,
2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.”

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

4 Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder!
5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, from their fellow Israelites—even though they also are descended from Abraham.
6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.
7 And without doubt the lesser is blessed by the greater.
8 In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.
9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham,
10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.

Jesus Like Melchizedek
11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.
13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar.
14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears,
16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life (another proof Jesus Christ never died!).
17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”


18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless
19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath,


Again, to the reader, please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/at.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/1john2_22.htm




A Brotherly Reminder:

I want to end this reply by reminding you also with the following verses:

Matthew 24:36 Jesus said "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." 

Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows.  Notice here how "The Father" title was used for the All Knowing GOD Almighty.

Also, if Christ was indeed your Creator, brother Jesus.breadoflife, then JESUS HERE CLEARLY LIED!  If he were GOD Almighty, he would've certainly known when the Hour would come.  Him denying that he had any knowledge about the Hour, while he supposedly knew it, makes him a liar.

Luke 18:19 ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone."

Mark 10:18 “And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”?

Trinity is false and a blasphemy.  Islam is the Divine Truth.  Indeed, all Praise and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone for making the Noble Quran be the Perfect and Everlasting Miracle, for us humans, out of all of His Divine Miracles!  And may Allah Almighty send His Peace, Mercy and Blessings upon our Beloved and Blessed Prophet, Teacher and Role Model, Muhammad.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Wizdom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2013, 05:52:43 pm »
Bump

Offline There is only one God

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2013, 09:07:49 pm »
gotta correct something here. @jesusbreadoflife: It was not part of Jewish burial rites to use spices and linen cloth, that was Egyptian mummification

Offline jesus.breadoflife

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2013, 08:35:45 am »
Dear Brother Osama,

Apologies for the late reply.

Jesus is one in the Father.  Yes.  But Jesus also said that his followers are one in him, and he is one in them, and they are one in the Father, and all of the Believers are one in the Father [2].  Why did you ignore this part?  Are you deliberatly trying to fool or mislead the reader?

Could you please clarify which verse you are referring to that says believers and God are one?  Jesus said that he and the Father are one. [John 10:30 - I and the Father are one The Bible does say that God will live in those who love and obey Him and put his Spirit in them.
John 14:23 - Jesus replied, ‘Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
Ezekiel 36:26 - I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.


Jesus is called the only begotten Son of God in the Bible. The Bible does not speak of any other only begotten Sons of God. Worship in the Bible does not mean to simply bow down before someone. Worshipping of the Lord comes from your spirit and it is giving praise to the almighty creator.

John 4:24
24 God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.’

Jesus is the King of Jews/King of Israel in the, also the Saviour - all in the New Testament.

Mark 15:32 (Lord Jesus is mocked when he is on the cross)
32 Let this Messiah, this king of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe.’ Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him

2 Peter 3:18
18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

When we looked to the Old Testament, we can see that the terms used to describe God matches this.

Isaiah 44:6
‘This is what the Lord says –
    Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
    apart from me there is no God.


Lord Jesus also says of himself that he is the first and last in the New Testament.

Revealation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

There are many such examples which show that Jesus and the Father are one.

Finally, dear brother, there is no need to call me a liar. I know the Bible to be amazing and true. My faith is not paganism or polytheism. My God is one - he is my Father, my rock, my protector, the Spirit who lives in me. Jesus is my Lord and I love him in perfect truth. God loves all of you, we are the work of his hands. Let there be no unpleasantness between us.

God bless you all :)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 11:45:56 am by jesus.breadoflife »

Offline jesus.breadoflife

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2013, 09:32:26 am »
gotta correct something here. @jesusbreadoflife: It was not part of Jewish burial rites to use spices and linen cloth, that was Egyptian mummification

I included a reference in my original post - http://www.ehow.co.uk/info_8493339_jewish-burial-customs-anointing-oils.html

Also, John 19:40

40 Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs.

Offline Wizdom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2013, 12:01:47 am »
Bump

Offline Wizdom

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: The Crucifixion of Judas
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2013, 06:49:34 pm »
Bump