Answering Christianity Research Center
MAIN BOARD (You must register to post) => GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS => Topic started by: zulfiqarchucknorris on January 19, 2013, 05:37:19 PM
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Peace
Ive heard that muslims cannot be nationalistic and patriotic because the prophet forbade "asabiyah". Its true that the prophet forbade it but asabiyah is hating some group for the soul reason of your family or race, sometimes you can see this in the arab and muslim world against jews (even anto zionist ones), and vice versa.
You can be nationalistic in islam and love your fatherland, just dont be racist.
Proud Arab Nationalist
PEACE
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what i meant is that asabiyah means hating a family or race based on solely blood or religion.
God knows best, or course
Peace
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Peace
Ive heard that muslims cannot be nationalistic and patriotic because the prophet forbade "asabiyah". Its true that the prophet forbade it but asabiyah is hating some group for the soul reason of your family or race, sometimes you can see this in the arab and muslim world against jews (even anto zionist ones), and vice versa.
You can be nationalistic in islam and love your fatherland, just dont be racist.
Proud Arab Nationalist
PEACE
Arrogance is a sin. 2:206
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Peace
Ive heard that muslims cannot be nationalistic and patriotic because the prophet forbade "asabiyah". Its true that the prophet forbade it but asabiyah is hating some group for the soul reason of your family or race, sometimes you can see this in the arab and muslim world against jews (even anto zionist ones), and vice versa.
You can be nationalistic in islam and love your fatherland, just dont be racist.
Proud Arab Nationalist
PEACE
Um, what you need to realise that Jews today, 80% of them are anti-s emetic, in other words they aren't descendants of Ishaaq (Peace be upon him). Arab and muslim worlds? This is all bogus, you fell for it, they portray the Palestian vs Israeli conflict as arab vs Israeli, but what you need to realise it's muslim vs israeli, NOT arab alone.
Being non-nationalistic does not include going against jews, i'm not saying that you should hate jews, but when muslims hate jews it's due to religion, not nationality, Muhammad (Sallahu Aleyhi wasalaam) was sent to mankind, infact it's been proven that Bani Ishaaq are afghans today, (Jews from before), are you telling me arabs hate them? Ofcourse not, they are our muslim brothers.
As for 'There is only God's comment on arrogance is sin, it's true, it's not good to be arrogant, but being proud (the bad way) means don't be arrogant, but being proud as in happy is completely different.
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OK, first being proud of your ethnicity and nationality is not being ignorant, and therfore not a sin, i love my ethnicity, it doesnt mean i hate others, one of my best friend is Kurdish, another armenian, i am almost obsessed with persian and japanese culture, i love italian food, and even admire american education and political system (though some critisism with the polititions themselves), i go an international american school in ksa for God's sake, I love my ethnicity, but im not racist, i dont think my race is better than others, thats what arrogance is, and im not that, please i take that accusation very hard. Also, the Israeli problem is an Arab-Israeli (european) problem. Not a Jewish-Muslim problem.
Some of the most anti israelli arabs are arabs christians, like George Habash and Edward Said, George habahs created th PLO and the PFLP, dont tell me hes not anti-israeli. Also many non-israeli jews are against israeli actions, Noam Chaudry for 1. Palestine is arab land,not just muslim land, that belong to all faiths who share the holy places, like the temple mount, we all think they are sacred. Arabs have the right to have a state their and Abrahamic faiths of all ethinicities should have ability to worship and visit their.
Plus they are muslims who are israeli and proud, like the bedouin legion.
Also, this is a conflict between governments, not people, you cant hate jews for somethings the israelis have done, MANY muslims do this, and vice versa.
Islam is a religion for man-kind, not only arabs, thats why there are many non-arab muslims, (many of my best friends), and arab non-Muslims, (again my friends, fellow arabs). even Zaik Nakir is proud to be indian.
Thats also why there are some muslims who like israel, even though im against israel i have to admit that they havesome good qualities in which we arabs and muslims could learn from, but hey, so did hitler (Im exagerating though).
I DONT hate jews only SOME racist israelis.
Anyways my point still stands, nationalism and patroitism is not a sin, but racism and arrogance are.
PS im not friends with xenophobs (even if theyre muslim) and racists.
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Zulfiqar patriotism isnt a sin, nationalism is. Nationalism is the extreme form of patriotism ie. when you help your country in wrong doing no matter what because you think your country is superior. Thats what nationalism is.
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peace
you said
Zulfiqar patriotism isnt a sin, nationalism is. Nationalism is the extreme form of patriotism ie. when you help your country in wrong doing no matter what because you think your country is superior. Thats what nationalism is.
actually nationalism is the love of ones "nation", "race" or"ethnic background". i believe you not talking about nationalism, your talking about extreme patriotism or facism. Nationalism, love for ones race, is a good thing. Patriotism, love for ones country, is also permissible.
Im a nationalist because i love my race, the Arabs, please check my previous comment if you think im racist.
Im not that partiotistic because i have some disagreements with the government.
peace
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OK, first being proud of your ethnicity and nationality is not being ignorant, and therfore not a sin, i love my ethnicity, it doesnt mean i hate others, one of my best friend is Kurdish, another armenian, i am almost obsessed with persian and japanese culture, i love italian food, and even admire american education and political system (though some critisism with the polititions themselves), i go an international american school in ksa for God's sake, I love my ethnicity, but im not racist, i dont think my race is better than others, thats what arrogance is, and im not that, please i take that accusation very hard. Also, the Israeli problem is an Arab-Israeli (european) problem. Not a Jewish-Muslim problem.
Some of the most anti israelli arabs are arabs christians, like George Habash and Edward Said, George habahs created th PLO and the PFLP, dont tell me hes not anti-israeli. Also many non-israeli jews are against israeli actions, Noam Chaudry for 1. Palestine is arab land,not just muslim land, that belong to all faiths who share the holy places, like the temple mount, we all think they are sacred. Arabs have the right to have a state their and Abrahamic faiths of all ethinicities should have ability to worship and visit their.
Plus they are muslims who are israeli and proud, like the bedouin legion.
Also, this is a conflict between governments, not people, you cant hate jews for somethings the israelis have done, MANY muslims do this, and vice versa.
Islam is a religion for man-kind, not only arabs, thats why there are many non-arab muslims, (many of my best friends), and arab non-Muslims, (again my friends, fellow arabs). even Zaik Nakir is proud to be indian.
Thats also why there are some muslims who like israel, even though im against israel i have to admit that they havesome good qualities in which we arabs and muslims could learn from, but hey, so did hitler (Im exagerating though).
I DONT hate jews only SOME racist israelis.
Anyways my point still stands, nationalism and patroitism is not a sin, but racism and arrogance are.
PS im not friends with xenophobs (even if theyre muslim) and racists.
Did you even read what I said? Seriously kid, listen up.
The conflict with Palestine and 'Israel' is a muslim vs zionist conflict, NOT a arab vs zionist conflict.
I wrote that the 'Jews' in 'Israel' today are NOT semetic, which means they aren't supposed to claim the land, ONLY Abraham's descendants which are s emetic people can claim the land, WHICH is us. 80% of Jews today are ANTI-Semetic. To understand what that means you have to understand what being semetic is. Nuh (Peace be upon him) had 4 boys, 1died in the flood and 3 survived.
One kid was called Shem, from Shem all the semetic descendants came, INCLUDING Abraham (peace be upon him), Isaac and Ishmael (peace be upon them both).
Only Abraham (peace be upon him) and his decendants were allowed to dwell in the lands of Canaan (Palestine) forever. So if it's a religious conflict, then we deserve it none the less, in fact the lost tribes of israel (10 of them), are modern day kashmir and afghanistan, and none the less, they are basically ALL MUSLIM, so against we have the upperhand.
Now, let's pretend it's not a religious conflict, and it's a conflict of greed, THE PALESTINIANS HAVE LIVED IN THE LAND OF CANAAN BEFORE ABRAHAM (PEACE BE UPON HIM) EVEN EXISTED, so it's there's anyway! So how can these European 'converts' just come and start slaughtering our brothers and EVEN our sisters and little babies, and apparently, you think that 'Israel' has good traits, which muslims and arabs can learn from, you are such an idiot, you make my blood boil.
There is NO Israel, the same fools who funded the Nazi's, are the ones who are killing our innocent Palestians, and apparently, when we create a force to counter them, we are labelled terrorists.
NOW TELL ME WHAT GOOD QUALITIES DO THESE ANTI-SEMETIC 'JEWS' HAVE? PLEASE? THAT MUSLIMS OR ARABS CAN LEARN FROM? You are a fool, seriously, go educate yourself.
Go study the history of Zionism, how they funded the Nazi's and how they killed jews that would not return to Palestine. Why are you talking crap about how you enjoy italian food? LOL, once again, i will repeat I SAID THAT PRIDE AS IN ARROGANCE IS HARAAM, NOT PRIDE AS IN BEING HAPPY. Modern day Nazi-ism is how the Palestinians are treated by these dumb european's who travelled across to the world to claim a land that they don't even deserve.
I can't wait for the day when we fight these fools, when a rock will start talking and will say there's a jew behind me, COME AND KILL HIM, they will pay for what they done, and we will liberate Palestine once again, when the khilafa is re-established.
Bottom lines, Israel does not even exist, lmao, and you are saying that a satanic democratic state is something that muslims and arabs can learn from, piss off.
I never claimed I hate jews, like I said 80% of Jews today are anti-semetic, and Jews from the past are none-the less muslim today, for example the people of Khorosan and Kashmir. The 'european converts' are none the less people of Yajuj/Majuj who are drinking up the sea of galilee, and when it dries up, they will pave way for the Dajjal to come, the fools deserve what they are doing.
Now before I finish this of, you wrote:
'Also, the Israeli problem is an Arab-Israeli (european) problem. Not a Jewish-Muslim problem.'
Are you stupid or what?
How can someone be Israeli and European? ISRAELITES ARE SEMETIC, NOT EUROPEAN. AND IT'S A MUSLIM PROBLEM TOO, BECAUSE THE LAND BELONGS TO US AND WE ARE PREPARING TO LIBERATE IT SOON, BECAUSE THEY ARE SLAUGHTERING OUR BROTHERS/SISTERS
Then you wrote not a jewish-muslim problem. OFCOURSE ITS A MUSLIM PROBLEM, MUSLIMS ARE WAITING TO LIBERATE IT WHEN THE CALIFATE IS RESTORED.
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peace
look my brother in religions, ive got something to say
CALM THE F*** DOWN!!!!
no need to be hurling insults
first, i compared Israel to Hitler if you read my last comment, remember "but hey so was hitler", please dont tell me you think hitler is a good guy. If you didnt get it i meant that we could learn from the israelis
As for the Arab vs. Israeli or Muslim, you said that the children of abraham (semites) have the right claim to palestine, and thats why muslims should be in Palestine. first of not all muslims are semites, indonesians, persians, hui, turks are not semitic.
and by the way i said IsraeLI (the Zionist Europeans) not ISRAELITES (the Ethnic group). THis means the modern day citizens of israel are mostly of european decent, not hebrew.
your statement about the 10 lost tribes are the people in aghanistan, is a theory which could quite possibly be true, but thats not part of the disscussion.
Dont tell me its not an arab-zionist conflict as well, some of the most notable palestinian nationalist were arab christians who were fighting for palestine. George Habash was the founder of the PLO and PFLP, and he is just 1 example.
dont sound too violent, you sound like you cant wait to slaughter every jew that comes under your power, i know you dont mean that but watch what your saying, some people may think your calling for genocide.
If you reply, please make your argument and be civilised, dont start baraging
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I agree with zulfiqar.
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peace
look my brother in religions, ive got something to say
CALM THE F*** DOWN!!!!
no need to be hurling insults
first, i compared Israel to Hitler if you read my last comment, remember "but hey so was hitler", please dont tell me you think hitler is a good guy. If you didnt get it i meant that we could learn from the israelis
As for the Arab vs. Israeli or Muslim, you said that the children of abraham (semites) have the right claim to palestine, and thats why muslims should be in Palestine. first of not all muslims are semites, indonesians, persians, hui, turks are not semitic.
and by the way i said IsraeLI (the Zionist Europeans) not ISRAELITES (the Ethnic group). THis means the modern day citizens of israel are mostly of european decent, not hebrew.
your statement about the 10 lost tribes are the people in aghanistan, is a theory which could quite possibly be true, but thats not part of the disscussion.
Dont tell me its not an arab-zionist conflict as well, some of the most notable palestinian nationalist were arab christians who were fighting for palestine. George Habash was the founder of the PLO and PFLP, and he is just 1 example.
dont sound too violent, you sound like you cant wait to slaughter every jew that comes under your power, i know you dont mean that but watch what your saying, some people may think your calling for genocide.
If you reply, please make your argument and be civilised, dont start baraging
Ok whatever, but DONT bring up crap about how muslims should learn and take the 'good' traits from the 'Israeli's'. I agree, it's a arab-zionist conflict too, but it's also a judaic-zionist conflict too!, they slaughter the jews who oppose them too, may Allah protect us all.
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then i agree
ps I was being sarcastic
I COMPARED THEM TO HITLER FOR GOD'S SAKE.
Peace bro
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I will use Black Muslim's dramatic dialogue here:
"ALLAH GIVE ME STRENGTH!"
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May God, the forgiving and merciful, give all of us strength and forgiveness, my prayers with all of you
peace
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Peace
Ive heard that muslims cannot be nationalistic and patriotic because the prophet forbade "asabiyah". Its true that the prophet forbade it but asabiyah is hating some group for the soul reason of your family or race, sometimes you can see this in the arab and muslim world against jews (even anto zionist ones), and vice versa.
You can be nationalistic in islam and love your fatherland, just dont be racist.
Proud Arab Nationalist
PEACE
A lot of Arabs i know think they r the best, and when they see a Pakistani or a Bangali, they look down at them. That is because they r arabs, the think they r the best. Same goes with Pakistanis to bagalis and vice versa. One of the main problems is between Egyptian and Morrocan, and Pakistani and Bangali, and Pakistani and Indian. Also in South America. Main theme is, they have this hatred because they think their race or country is the best, or is superior. It creates blind hatred and fighting and seperation. It is haram.
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I remember an Arab once said "Arabic is God's language", well besides the laughable anthropomorphism:
"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety (taqwa) and good action. "
----Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) [The last sermon]
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Peace
I am very proud to be arabic, but i do not look down at other races. egyptian are morrocans are my fellow arabs, (with egyptians mixed with some nubian-coptic blood and morrocans with berber blood, but theyre still arabs because they also have arabic blood and trace part of there origin to an arab tribe, the other half to the pharoahs and berbers respectively) One of my best friend is Pakistani, another is indian, i personally dont know any bengalis currently but i have nothing against them.
Some people say that arabic is the best language because of hadith that says "the prophet (PBUH) said: love the arabs for 3 reasons, because i am an arab, the quran is in arabic, and the language of paradise is arabic". This hadith has been rejected by almost every hadith scholar.
Just for reference, the full final sermon in which the prophet completed human rights is this:
After praising, and thanking Allah he said:
“O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.
O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. God has forbidden you to take usury, therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn ‘Abd’al Muttalib (Prophet’s uncle) shall henceforth be waived…
Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.
O People, listen to me in earnest, worship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
Remember, one day you will appear before God and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O God, that I have conveyed your message to your peopleâ€.
(Reference: See Al-Bukhari, Hadith 1623, 1626, 6361) Sahih of Imam Muslim also refers to this sermon in Hadith number 98. Imam al-Tirmidhi has mentioned this sermon in Hadith nos. 1628, 2046, 2085. Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal has given us the longest and perhaps the most complete version of this sermon in his Masnud, Hadith no. 19774.) I believe this was the one that is posted.
Many Anti-Islamic websites (i.e. wikiislam) have have claimed that this version has no reference, yet, here it is. thay aslo give a fake version from the unreliable al tabari.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsmSDIw5MDY
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com/The-Problems-With-Ibn-Ishaq.html
These show that al tabari cannot be 100% trusted, he himself said so in his history.
Mr. Osama Abdullah, this could be one of your refutations to wikiislam.
Peace bros
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Peace
I am very proud to be arabic, but i do not look down at other races. egyptian are morrocans are my fellow arabs, (with egyptians mixed with some nubian-coptic blood and morrocans with berber blood, but theyre still arabs because they also have arabic blood and trace part of there origin to an arab tribe, the other half to the pharoahs and berbers respectively) One of my best friend is Pakistani, another is indian, i personally dont know any bengalis currently but i have nothing against them.
Some people say that arabic is the best language because of hadith that says "the prophet (PBUH) said: love the arabs for 3 reasons, because i am an arab, the quran is in arabic, and the language of paradise is arabic". This hadith has been rejected by almost every hadith scholar.
Just for reference, the full final sermon in which the prophet completed human rights is this:
After praising, and thanking Allah he said:
“O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.
O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. God has forbidden you to take usury, therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn ‘Abd’al Muttalib (Prophet’s uncle) shall henceforth be waived…
Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.
O People, listen to me in earnest, worship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
Remember, one day you will appear before God and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O God, that I have conveyed your message to your peopleâ€.
(Reference: See Al-Bukhari, Hadith 1623, 1626, 6361) Sahih of Imam Muslim also refers to this sermon in Hadith number 98. Imam al-Tirmidhi has mentioned this sermon in Hadith nos. 1628, 2046, 2085. Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal has given us the longest and perhaps the most complete version of this sermon in his Masnud, Hadith no. 19774.) I believe this was the one that is posted.
Many Anti-Islamic websites (i.e. wikiislam) have have claimed that this version has no reference, yet, here it is. thay aslo give a fake version from the unreliable al tabari.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsmSDIw5MDY
http://www.answering-christian-claims.com/The-Problems-With-Ibn-Ishaq.html
These show that al tabari cannot be 100% trusted, he himself said so in his history.
Mr. Osama Abdullah, this could be one of your refutations to wikiislam.
Peace bros
Im a bengali. :P
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and i have nothing you, i consider you a friend and sibling (in religion).
in fact, the only other bengali i heard of was salman Khan of khanacademy.org (http://khanacademy.org)
peace
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and i have nothing you, i consider you a friend and sibling (in religion).
in fact, the only other bengali i heard of was salman Khan of khanacademy.org (http://khanacademy.org)
peace
According to wikipedia he's indian?
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and i have nothing you, i consider you a friend and sibling (in religion).
in fact, the only other bengali i heard of was salman Khan of khanacademy.org (http://khanacademy.org)
peace
KHANACADEMYY1!!! <3
No Tanveer he's bengali.
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and i have nothing you, i consider you a friend and sibling (in religion).
in fact, the only other bengali i heard of was salman Khan of khanacademy.org (http://khanacademy.org)
peace
KHANACADEMYY1!!! <3
No Tanveer he's bengali.
Seriously? ...epic. :D
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Peace
his dad is bengali, mom is indian and his wife pakistani, but he has us citizenship. so i guess you could say hes indian because pakistan, india, and begaladesh are part of the indian subcontinent, which consists of those counties in addition to nepal.
Peace
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Peace
u forgot to mention that sri lanka is also part of the area
some people also include bhutan, balochistan (its a region not a country), and the maldieves.
peace