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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need advice
« Last post by Zakir on December 17, 2017, 03:31:19 pm »
MashAllah....that must have been hard, i've been through this before, i nearly converted to christianity 3 years ago, thank God the priest was not there when i went to the Church otherwise i would have been a Trinitarian right now and maybe an apologist like Wood as well 😄....so basically the fact that the priest was not there was the perfect opportunity for me to give Islam one more chance(i had conflicting ideas during those days especially about the Trinity in the bible), so that day i bunked my usual saturday tuition and sat at my favourite mall for 3 hours thinking about what i was about to do and whether or not if i should think about my decision again, so i returned home and i began studying the subjects about which i had severe doubts(once again), and now here i am, a simple young guy going out on a personal vendetta against a non-existent called the "Trinity"...i'm glad that you're back amongst us by the way...
It was very depressing first I became an christian then atheist then I wasn't sure about life I believed it was all a simulation and some how I came back to where is started Islam.
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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need advice
« Last post by Zakir on December 17, 2017, 03:29:24 pm »
Welcome back brother! Just ask any question and we will give you the best answer. Just make sure to never leave Islam for just a few doubts about it. Trust me. I many times got very hard questions that seemed to have no answer, but thanks to Allah I always got a perfect answer. I told you this just to ensure you will stick to this religion forever, and lastly take care, brother.
Thank you.
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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Mandela effect
« Last post by Zakir on December 17, 2017, 03:27:38 pm »
There has been something that has been confusing me lately if you are not aware of the Mandela effect please do some research. The main example is so many people remember Nelson Mandela dying in the 80's but people where also told he died in 2013. Apparently this is because life is a simulation and there are glitches. I know this sounds absurd but please do some research there is alot of these examples. Some people say it is the cia or media trying to confuse us.
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Source: www.islamforchristians.com


Some Christians claim that there are contradictions in the Qur’an about what Christians really worship as God. The Qur’an states sometimes that Christians say that God is Jesus, sometimes that they say Jesus is the son of God, sometimes that they take Jesus and his mother, Mary, as gods, sometimes that they say that God is the third of three, and sometimes that they take the clergy as lords along with Jesus.

In fact, there are no contradictions in the Qur’an either in this regard or otherwise. The Qur’an’s enumeration of diverse Christian beliefs in God is attributable to two main reasons: the first reason is the diversity in the Christian denominations’ beliefs in God both in the past and at present. The second reason is the Islamic and Qur’anic usage of the real and correct concepts of godhood and lordship compared to the mistaken Christian concepts of godhood and lordship.

There are no contradictions in the Qur’an. But, some Christians believe that Jesus is God, others that he is the son of God, others that he is both God and the son of God, others take him and his mother, Mary, as gods, others take the clergy as lords

With this in mind, all Christian beliefs in God cited in the Qur’an are actual, factual and well-evidenced. Christians actually have and/or had such beliefs in God cited by the Qur’an in spite of their numerousness and contradictoriness.

Accordingly, it is not the Qur’an but the Christian beliefs in God themselves which are contradictory. The Qur’an has never fabricated a Christian belief. It rather spotlights actual Christian beliefs, be they old or contemporary.

Thus, Christians should blame themselves rather than the Qur’an for their contradictory beliefs in God it cites. The Qur’an just mirrors their contradictory beliefs.

Let’s review the Christian beliefs in God as cited by the Qur’an in order to conclusively evidence the Christians’ actual faith in those contradictory beliefs both in the past and at present.

Do Christians Say that Jesus Christ is God?
The Qur’an

In the Qur’an, God says:

They have certainly disbelieved who say that God is the Christ, the son of Mary. Say, “Then who could prevent God at all if He had intended to destroy the Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?” And to God belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and God is over all things competent. (Al-Ma’idah 5:17)

He also says:

They have certainly disbelieved who say, “God is the Christ, the son of Mary” while the Christ has said, “O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord.” Indeed, he who associates others with God – God has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. (Al-Ma’idah 5:72)

Christians

Christians actually say that Jesus Christ is God. They cite (refuted) biblical verses as evidence as follows:

“I and My Father are one.” (John 10:30) (Click here for refutation)

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1) (Click here for refutation)

And Thomas answered and said unto Him, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28) (Click here and there for refutation)



Do Christians Say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?
The Qur’an

In the Qur’an, God says:

The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of God“; and the Christians say, “The Christ is the son of God.” That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May God destroy them; how are they deluded? (At-Tawbah 9:30)

Christians

Christians actually say that Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God. They cite as evidence (refuted) biblical verses as follows:

But Jesus held His peace. And the high priest answered and said unto Him, “I adjure thee by the living God that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus said unto him, “Thou hast said; nevertheless I say unto you, hereafter shall ye see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” (Matthew 26:63-64) (Click here for refutation)



Do Christians Take Jesus Christ and his Mother, Mary, as Gods?
The Qur’an

In the Qur’an, God says:

And [beware the Day] when God will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides God?'” He will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. (Al-Ma’idah 5:116)

Christians

Though Mary is not included in the contemporary Holy Trinity, Christians believe in her divinity despite the dogmatic differences among their denominations.

Mary Worship by Christians
Mary Worship by Christians

Some denominations explicitly take her as an outright deity, while others implicitly take her as a deity according to the real and correct concept of godhood despite the denial of her divinity by some of them.

As for those Christians who explicitly take Mary as deity, they include old and contemporary Christian denominations.

As far as the old denominations are concerned, they, for example, include the Collyridianism. It was an Early Christian movement in the pre-Islamic Arabia whose adherents worshipped the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus, as a goddess. The main source of information about them comes from their strongest opponent, Epiphanius of Salamis, who wrote about them in his Panarion of about 375 AD. According to Epiphanius, certain women in then-largely-pagan Arabia syncretized indigenous beliefs with the worship of Mary, and offered little cakes or bread-rolls. Such a denomination still exists but has relatively limited presence.

Mary Worship by Popes
Mary Worship by Popes

As for the contemporary denominations, they include the Mormonism or the Latter Day Saint Movement. This denomination believes in the concept of “the heavenly mother” that is the mother of the human mothers and the wife of God the Father.

This denomination believes in Mary as a heavenly mother and a wife of God. Some clergymen from this church like Rudger Clawson believe in the worship of the heavenly mother as a part of the worship of the heavenly father (God the Father).

As for those who implicitly take Mary as a deity, they include all other contemporary Christian denominations. According to most Christian denominations, Mary is the “Mother of God” or “God-bearer”. She is also called the “Queen of Heaven”, “Queen Mother” since she was the mother of Jesus, who was sometimes referred to as the “King of Kings” due to his ancestral descent from King David. She is also deemed the “Heavenly Woman of Revelation”. Some Catholics believe that she is a “Mother Goddess”




Though most Christians deny Mary’s divinity, it is intuitive that a child belongs to the same kind as its mother. For example, a human female gives birth to a human baby, and an animal female gives birth to an animal baby. We have never seen a human female giving birth to a well-developed animal or an animal female giving birth to a well-developed human.

Moreover, according to the real and correct concept of godhood presented by the Qur’an, if it is possible that God has a mother, the latter must be God as well. If it is possible that God has a son, the latter must be God also. In the Qur’an, we read:

Say, [O Muhammad], “If the Most Merciful had a son, then I would be the first of [his] worshippers.” (Az-Zukhruf 43:81)

Though most contemporary Christian denominations deny Mary’s divinity, they say and do things which confirm her divinity according to the real and correct concept of divinity.

For example, Christians pray to Mary so that she will intercede for them. Furthermore, they draw paintings, images and icons for her, erect statues, worship and prostrate themselves before those paintings, images, icons and statues.



Such are nothing but acts of worship for and deification of Mary. According to the real and correct concept of divinity, only God is prayed to, worshiped and prostrated before.

Do Christians Say that God is the Third of Three?
The Qur’an

In the Qur’an, God says:

They have certainly disbelieved who say, “God is the third of three.” And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. (Al-Ma’idah 5:73)

He also says:

O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about God except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of God and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, God is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is God as Disposer of affairs. (An-Nisaa’ 4:171)

Christians

Though the alleged Holy Trinity is not found in the Bible, Christians actually say that God is the third of three according to the professions of faith, especially the Nicene Creed adopted at the First Council of Nicaea.



Though Christians claim that God is one but this one God has three persons, the person called “Father” is actually God according to the real and correct concept of divinity. The other two persons can never be God. Evidence for that in the Bible is uncountable.

Alleged Holy Trinity
Alleged Holy Trinity

For example, human beings are attributed to the Father as children and astronomical objects like the sun and rain are also ascribed to the Father, unlike the Son and the Holy Spirit to whom the Bible has never attributed neither human beings nor astronomical objects.

For example, we read: “So that you may be children of your Father in heaven. For he causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Matthew 5:45)

Another piece of evidence is denying Jesus the basic description of “good”, whereas this and better description “perfect” are given to God called “Father”.

About the Father’s description as “perfect”, we read: “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48)

About denying Jesus the description of “good” and giving the same description to the Father, we read: And behold, one came and said unto Him, “Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” And He said unto him, “Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God. But if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:16-17)

Therefore, the Qur’an considers that Christians say (believe) that God (“Father” according to them) is the third of three. Though they claim to be monotheists and do not believe in “three gods” but in “three persons of the same god”, the Qur’an does not mention that Christians say that God (Father) is the third of three gods. It rather disapproves their claim that He is the third of any three, even the third of allegedly three persons in only one god.

Do Christians Take their Clergy as Lords?
The Qur’an

In the Qur’an, God says:

They have taken their rabbis and clergy as lords besides God, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him. (At-Tawbah 9:31)

Christians

Though Christians deny taking their clergy as lords, they say and do things which confirm their lordship according to the real and correct concept of lordship.

For example, Christians believe in confession as one of the seven sacraments of the church. According to this sacrament, a Christian confesses one’s sin to a priest who will, in turn, forgive this sin.



Christians offer, as evidence for the priest’s authority to forgive sins, verses pertaining to the Christ’s students and disciples rather than the clergy in general.

Pope Francis Confessing
Pope Francis Confessing

For example, Christians cite the following verse, which quotes a conversation between Jesus and his disciple, Peter. We read:

“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will have been loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19)

They also cite the following verse which quotes a conversation between Jesus and his disciples. We read: “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John 20:23)

However, according to the real and correct concept of lordship, none can forgive sins except God alone. The belief that someone can forgive sins along with God is tantamount to taking others as lords as the Qur’an states.

The Qur’an draws attention to the fact that many priests unjustly devour the property of Christians allegedly for the forgiveness of sins and the like. In the Qur’an, God says:

O you who have believed, indeed many of the rabbis and the priests devour the wealth of people unjustly and avert [them] from the way of God. And those who hoard gold and silver and spend it not in the way of God – give them tidings of a painful punishment. (At-Tawbah 9:34)

History confirms what the Qur’an says in this regard. It tells us that many popes and archbishops unjustly devoured Christians’ property and actually hoarded gold and silver. This was called simony. The abused indulgences were the best example of such simony in the Middle Ages. Unfortunately, many popes and archbishops of various churches were involved in simony and other equally corrupt practices.

The acts confirming the Christians’ deification of their priests according to the real and correct concept of lordship include some acts of worship like prostration, though prostration can be made only to God.



The stated acts also include doing what priests allow and refraining from what they prohibit though evidence for the same is sometimes not found in the Bible. God is the real legislator and taking someone else as a legislator is commensurate with taking others as lords along with Him.

Examples for misleading pontifical legislations include permitting, for example, prostration to paintings and statues, alcohol consumption, and pork eating and forbidding, for example, laic remarriage and clerical marriage.



After all, it is proven now that all what the Qur’an says about the Christian beliefs in God is actual and factual, according to their scriptures, rituals, history and even reality. The secret behind the Qur’anic enumeration of various, sometimes contradictory, Christian beliefs in God is the actual diversity and contradiction in their beliefs in God, not to mention their misconception of divinity and lordship and failure to give things the real and correct names.

Source: www.islamforchristians.com
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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need advice
« Last post by shaad on December 17, 2017, 03:20:49 am »
@Submit, pretty weird way of guiding mankind... So many years of sending messengers to promote pure monotheism and then suddenly boom! God is actually One but 3 co-equal persons and how do we explain the maths? Well we can't coz it's god damn mystery...on top of that, the basic creed of 3 co-equal Gods is not even "properly" demonstrated in the NT so as to kill the doubts that people have... Trinitarians can do whatever they want but they will eventually lose this theological war that is going on between them and Muslims....as far as i can see of course...
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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need advice
« Last post by submit on December 17, 2017, 12:20:51 am »
Just always bear in mind that,  Trinitarian is a belief where the God of Noahites and Isralites finally giving up after sending many messengers inviting mankind to worship a unique singular God with no resemblance or equality to others.

And hence the God of Noahites and Israelites conceded to the way of polytheists and hellenists that worship manifestations on earth, and wishes to show mercy onto mankind by relaxing the strict Law of God being singular and unique. And hence God decided to manifest into a human form and permits a maximum of three forms of God being equal to each other.

It will be a new invitation from God to polytheists so that they will abandon their plural-gods and worship just a human God inclusive of the three equal forms of His.
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I heard that Asadullah Ali (Ijihad's speaker) will release another video about rebuttal of The Masked Arab. Hopefully this month.

Please subscribe his channel on YouTube. It's called Sandalusian Project. He now has more than 1,000 subscribers.

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As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers and sisters in Islam,

Jazakum Allah Khayr akhi Dawud and sister Tazeen.  I just added more examples to my post above.

I hope this helps insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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Masha Allah really superb....Jazakullah khair.
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