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MAIN BOARD (You must register to post) => ISLAMIC DISCUSSIONS | GOD | QURAN | QURAN CANON & HISTORY | HADITHS & SUNNA => Quran History, Text, Compilation, and alleged Contradictions => Topic started by: Al Masihi on March 10, 2018, 08:41:11 AM

Title: Satanic verses
Post by: Al Masihi on March 10, 2018, 08:41:11 AM
The greatest challenge to all Muslims, is the satanic verses. This one event which until now shakes the very foundations of Islam the satanic verses, Mohammed according to all the great and ancient scholars of Islam (Al Tabari, Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Saad, Waqidi, Bukhari, and many more) preached that Allat, Manat and Al Uzza pagan goddess could intercede on behalf of Allah and as soon as Mohammeds pagan enemies heard this they reconciled with him for a brief while and prostrated with him. But as soon as Mohammed revealed this revelation Jebreil (Gabriel) came down and told Mohammed that he had made a grave mistake and Mohammed now corrected his earlier revelation by condemning the polytheism of his people. Many Muslims will say this is a fake account but let's go to the Quran don't Muslims always bring us the challenge to produce something like the Quran well no need to because if this is a fabricated event then that means someone was able to conjure up a false Quranic Surah which would technically mean Allah lied since he said no one can make something like the Quran. So Muslims will either have to choose one of the following:
1. Mohammed said the satanic verses and Islam is false since it kind of destroys the whole concept of Tawheed in Islam.
2. Mohammed did not say this and this is fabricated and the Quran is false since Allah lied when he said no one can produce something like the Quran
So clearly we can conclude that an answer for this question will have be chosen from one of the following..
PS sorry for the long piece of writing tried to shorten it as much as possible.
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: QuranSearchCom on March 11, 2018, 03:21:08 AM
Actually, we investigated the satanic verses issue, and ironically, we found it to be in the Bible, not in the Glorious Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm#king_of_kings_lie
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm#king_kong
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,3095.msg15145.html#msg15145

Also, all of the books that you mentioned copied the story from Al-Tabari.  And the story was proven to be a fabrication inserted into Al-Tabari.



Books like the Quran?

You obviously don't even understand what Allah Almighty's Challenge is.  Read this:

www.answering-christianity.com/surah_like_it.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: Al Masihi on March 11, 2018, 06:51:06 AM
I'm not asking about the Bible I'm talking about the Quran. Ironically it shows how you try to deflect the question in order to spare yourself from answering by attacking the Bible. What if I was not Christian and I asked you this? Quran says bring a Surah like this if you say it's fabricated then people already did.
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: AMuslimDude213 on March 11, 2018, 07:59:28 AM
Read the Links,they have refutations to all this.
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: Al Masihi on March 11, 2018, 08:40:23 AM
The links refute nothing nor have the answers the produce the Surah like it one try's to put words into the Quran and explain the challenge in a way that the author knows it's a contradictory challenge, the satanic verses link seems to pathetically rant on the Bible and seems to be poorly written, and the third one seems to be make up conspiracy theories about zionists and Christians which I wouldn't bother reading.
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: AMuslimDude213 on March 11, 2018, 09:05:16 AM
You've only read the first parts instead of going deeper and reading the actual arguments

This is the fallacy of hasty Generalization.
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: Al Masihi on March 11, 2018, 09:28:02 AM
Look through the link yourself and answer my claim. However don't try to change what the Quran says, produce a Surah like it.
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: QuranSearchCom on March 11, 2018, 05:01:02 PM
Al Masihi,

Religious texts existed before Islam and after Islam.  The Glorious Quran even says that your (Jews and Christians') texts had been corrupted:

www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

So producing a false quran is nothing new.  In the article in my previous post above, I even quoted this Noble Verse:

"Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against God, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what God hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),"Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against God, and scornfully to reject of His signs!"  (The Noble Quran, 6:93)"

So producing any hogwash text and calling it quran is not the Divine Challenge here, because any bozo can do it.  It is producing a Book like the Glorious Quran's Spiritual and Physical Miracles that truly attracted millions upon millions to Islam, and to prove Itself to be a truly a Divine Book from GOD Almighty, and not just any mere piece of literature.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: Hayalilaydaa on March 11, 2018, 07:47:58 PM
Al Masihi,

Religious texts existed before Islam and after Islam.  The Glorious Quran even says that your (Jews and Christians') texts had been corrupted:

www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

So producing a false quran is nothing new.  In the article in my previous post above, I even quoted this Noble Verse:

"Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against God, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what God hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),"Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against God, and scornfully to reject of His signs!"  (The Noble Quran, 6:93)"

So producing any hogwash text and calling it quran is not the Divine Challenge here, because any bozo can do it.  It is producing a Book like the Glorious Quran's Spiritual and Physical Miracles that truly attracted millions upon millions to Islam, and to prove Itself to be a truly a Divine Book from GOD Almighty, and not just any mere piece of literature.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

 
Brother this confused me rn, bc the hindus and the buddhist also have billion followers and it is a made up religion?
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: QuranSearchCom on March 11, 2018, 07:59:23 PM
But their books never proved themselves to be Divine Revelations.  These "religions" are earthly philosophies.  Islam is the Divine Religion of GOD Almighty, and GOD Almighty Said that His Glorious Quran is Miraculous, so much that it can not be matched by any man's writings.  This is also how Islam breaks out of the circular empty argument that false religions use to prove themselves.

I hope this helps, Insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: Al Masihi on March 12, 2018, 12:16:38 AM
The verse you provided doesn't imply the physical corruption of the Torah or Bible it just warns those who attempt to make their own books, i said bring me a verse which says the physical books are corrupted and no longer in original form. Infact no verse in the Quran does, unless you can bring me one which says the Torah and Bible are muharaf the arabic word for corrupted but strangely this word never appears in the Quran. You calling it hogwash doesn't change the fact it records a verse Mohammed supposedly said, scholars of the 7th and 8th century didn't deny this verse and even believed it at one point. Attracting millions to something means nothing even communists could do that. Hindus and Zoroastrians say the same about their books again it means nothing, Islam uses the same arguments and claims as any other religion, nothing special about it. Either way many people once believed and some still believe the satanic verses to be a real revelation Mohammed recited at one point. Quran says produce a Surah like it it doesn't give regulations on how the Surah should be.
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: QuranSearchCom on March 12, 2018, 02:30:46 AM
Quote
The verse you provided doesn't imply the physical corruption of the Torah or Bible it just warns those who attempt to make their own books, i said bring me a verse which says the physical books are corrupted and no longer in original form. Infact no verse in the Quran does, unless you can bring me one which says the Torah and Bible are muharaf the arabic word for corrupted but strangely this word never appears in the Quran.

What's ludicrous about your false trinity, and entire conjecture of christianity, is that you lie on both

1-  The Glorious Quran.
2-  Your ludicrous bible.

Let's get one thing straight from both the Glorious Quran and your bible.  There is no legitimate book called "Bible".  This is a christian lie that was invented in the 300s by Constantine's counsel of Nicaea in the city of Nicaea in modern day Turkey.

Now, as to what your corrupt bible, the Glorious Quran, and the Hadiths say about your bible's corruption, visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/deuteronomy4_2.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac6.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/pauls_delusions.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/false_christs_shortly_after_jesus.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac6.htm#paul
www.answering-christianity.com/bible_sinless_men.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac10.htm#links  (Praised X-Rated pornography in the bible)
www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm  (What Islam says about your bible)


Quote
You calling it hogwash doesn't change the fact it records a verse Mohammed supposedly said, scholars of the 7th and 8th century didn't deny this verse and even believed it at one point.

Again, there is only one original source to the entire story, and it's in Tabari, and the story was proven to be a fabrication.  The early scholars didn't believe in it, nor was it popular at all.  Also, if your use your brain a little bit, you'll see that it doesn't make any sense for Muhammad to come and SMASH ALL IDOLS, insult them, spit on them, fight their worship, while bowing to them during his Prophethood?

This false story is discussed and exposed at:

www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm

Read the second link about how satan turned Jesus into King Kong and made him climb the top of the temple to commit suicide.  Of course, as a Muslim I doubt your gospel of porn's (http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac10.htm#links) fabricated stories and accounts about Jesus and everything else.  He also made him:

1-  Be between satan and GOD for 40 days and 40 nights.

2-  Get so spiritually weak that GOD had to send down Angels to "attend him".

3-  Jesus "Suffered" from satan's temptation.

4-  Jesus had "evil desires" during the temptation.

5-  And your King Kong as a result coveted the world, when he said if your eye sins pluck it out, if your hand sins, cut it off, if your butt sins, cut it off, if your penis sins, cut it off, if your brain sins, you have already sinned.  Yet, he was coveting the kingdoms that satan showed him, and all of its belly dancing harlots. 



Masturbating King Kong?

Was your King Kong masturbating during the temptation?  Visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm#king_of_kings_lie
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm#king_kong
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,3095.msg15145.html#msg15145


Quote
Attracting millions to something means nothing even communists could do that. Hindus and Zoroastrians say the same about their books again it means nothing, Islam uses the same arguments and claims as any other religion, nothing special about it. Either way many people once believed and some still believe the satanic verses to be a real revelation Mohammed recited at one point.

Pull your head out of your butt and read what the Quran's Divine Challenge really is.  It's not just about attracting people.  I used that point to thoroughly prove that even the Arab's poetry and philosophy was soundly defeated when it challenged the Glorious Quran's Literature.  But this is only one aspect of the Challenge and the Miracle.  I talked about this in details above and at:

www.answering-christianity.com/surah_like_it.htm


Quote
Quran says produce a Surah like it it doesn't give regulations on how the Surah should be.

Again, visit www.answering-christianity.com/surah_like_it.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: Al Masihi on March 12, 2018, 04:10:22 AM
Your insults are extremely childish and laughable. And Firstly I'm not talking about the bible but the Quran so stop trying to change to subject by attacking the bible, its pathetic. Mohammed as Al Tabari and other islamic scholars note. We also see that the story couldn’t have been invented by non-Muslims; for if non-Muslims had invented the story, Muslims would have exposed the story’s origin, instead of defending it in their earliest historical works.Bukhari too confirms that after Muhammad recited Surah 53 the Quraysh accepted Muhammad and prayed with him:

Muhammad recited Suraht-an-Najm (53) and prostrated while reciting it and all the people prostrated and a man amongst the people took a handful of stones or earth and raised it to his face and said, "This is sufficient for me." Later on I saw him killed as a non-believer. Bukhari 2.019. Number 176; see also Nr 173)

Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet ... prostrated while reciting An-Najm (Surah 53) and with him prostrated the Muslims, the pagans (Quraysh), the jinns, and all human beings. (Bukhari, 2.019, Number 177).

Where is your proof that the best poets couldn't beat the Quran, the Quran...?

ow the apostle was anxious for the welfare of his people, wishing to attract them as far as he could. It has been mentioned that he longed for a way to attract them ... (and) Satan, when he (Muhammad) was meditating upon it, and desiring to bring it (sc. reconciliation) to his people, put upon his tongue "these are the exalted Gharaniq[6] whose intercession is approved". (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)

This is what is meant by the phrase, the Satanic Verses; they were words that Muhammad spoke from Satan and his own desire. The Islamic accounts then say that the angel Gabriel rebuked Muhammad for what he had said:

Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said , "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you." (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166)

Then Muhammad confessed: I ascribed to Allah, what He had not said. (Ibn Sa'd, vol. 1, p. 237)
I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken. (Al-Tabari, vol. 6, p. 111)

Now the verse became:

Have you considered El-Lat and El-'Uzza and Manat the third, the other? What, have you males, and He females? That were indeed an unjust division. They are naught but names yourselves have named, and your fathers; God has sent down no authority touching them. (Qur'an 53:19-23, Arberry). Please read as well (Tafsir al-Jalalayn)

al-Bukhari, Islam’s most trusted authority, confirms certain details of the story that only make sense if Muhammad really did deliver the Satanic Verses. According to Bukhari,

The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Suraht an-Najm [Surah 53], and all the Muslims and Al-Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger Muhammad) and jinn and human beings prostrated along with him. (4862)

Though Bukhari understandably omits the embarrassing reason for the prostration of the pagans, he inadvertently confirms the account given by Ibn Ishaq and the others, who faithfully reported that the pagans bowed down because Muhammad spoke favourably of their gods. Muslims must account for Surah 22:52, which, again, declares that all God’s prophets received revelations from Satan—a verse so preposterous that it could only have been offered to the Muslim community as an absurd explanation for something like the Satanic Verses.

The only conceivable reason the pagans would bow down in honour of Surah 53 is that the Surah originally supported paganism, and this is exactly what our earliest historical records claim. Thus, Muhammad, in a moment of weakness, gave into temptation and actively promoted polytheism by delivering a revelation from Satan.

This event is documented by the four early biographical writers of Muhammad's life: Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari. The Hadith and Qur’an also contain direct references. Additionally several other Islamic scholars on Hadith (traditions) support the event's occurrence.

Mohammed later turning on the idols just means when he realised he couldn't win them over by accepting their gods he'd win them over by beating them in a war. Mohammed at the time was also yearning to be reaccepted by his people. The council of Nicaea wasn't even about the bible it was about the nature of Jesus Christ, and trying to solve a dispute between two parties ( Athanasius and Arius). If the Arabs were so impressed then why did they always laugh at Mohammed and reject his message and in regards to Arabs don't hold on to a false prophets words for long your right, they don't, ever heard of the Apostasy wars when most of Arabia left Islam before being forced back into it or paying Jizyah. The miracle of the Quran being language means nothing its just an excuse to explain why Mohammed had no miracles. Your trying tom explain the word. What arab christians are embracing Islam more and more Arabs leave Islam when actually understanding the Quran, ever heard of Christian Prince either, I saw your debate with him on Paltalk and I gotta say it didn't go well for you Osama. Your article on the challenge of the Quran explains nothing, it's just you trying to overcomplicate a simple verse which says produce a Surah like it unless the Quran which you claim to be perfect makes no sense.
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: QuranSearchCom on March 12, 2018, 04:54:12 AM
Quote
Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet ... prostrated while reciting An-Najm (Surah 53) and with him prostrated the Muslims, the pagans (Quraysh), the jinns, and all human beings. (Bukhari, 2.019, Number 177).

The jinns and all of the human beings?  Do you need any more proof than this to prove to your dead brain that this hadith is false just like your man-made false trinity?  And did they all live happily ever after??

Also, the Glorious Quran speaks about Muslim Jinns (Believers from the Jinns).  Why would those bow to the very idols that Islam came to destroy?

Also in the link, I showed you how some of the Prophets in your bible became idol worshipers.  LOL, so you see?  The very things you try to attack Islam on, we don't find them in Islam, but we find them in the bible.


Quote
Where is your proof that the best poets couldn't beat the Quran, the Quran...?

There is not a single non-Muslim from among the nations of central Arabia (Saudi Arabia and all little countries next to it).  All of them are Muslims.  Is that enough proof to your brain?  The Arabs were drawn by the wholesale to Islam.  They had false prophets emerge during the battles of apostasy.  All of them failed.  So this proves that Arabs don't just blindly follow anyone.

And the reason why the war of apostasy happened is because the Eastern Arabs at the time didn't fully receive Islam.  And many of them were still pagans.  Islam started from Western Arabia.  Again, visit: 

www.answering-christianity.com/surah_like_it.htm


Quote
This event is documented by the four early biographical writers of Muhammad's life: Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari. The Hadith and Qur’an also contain direct references. Additionally several other Islamic scholars on Hadith (traditions) support the event's occurrence.

Bukhari and others came 100s of years after the Prophet.  Al-Tabari, who also came 80 years after the Prophet, was the first and only one who vaguely recorded it.  Others just copied.  And we know that these texts were not examined.  That period was just a mass collection of texts to build the Hadiths library.  This where you get many fabrications.  But the Glorious Quran made it clear and easy for us to how to filter out any and all texts:

What agrees with the Quran is closest to the Truth.  Otherwise, it is false.


For ample details and proofs, visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm


Quote
Mohammed later turning on the idols just means when he realised he couldn't win them over by accepting their gods he'd win them over by beating them in a war. Mohammed at the time was also yearning to be reaccepted by his people.

Is this the load of BS they teach you in your pedophilic churches, where children get molested?  And we're not talking isolated incidents here.  We're talking world-wide scandals.

As to the nonsense that you just wrote, the very first Noble Verses of the Glorious Quran that were revealed to the Prophet, and the very Message that Prophet Muhammad started with was this:

1-  There is no GOD except Allah Almighty.

2-  You must not bow to any idol.

3-  The Prophet rejected an offer to be made chief of Quraysh by saying this:

"By Allah, if they place the weight of the sun on my right shoulder, and the weight of the moon on my left shoulder to force me leave the Divine Message that I was sent to deliver, I will never do so until Allah makes Islam spread to mankind or I die trying."

Sounds like an idol-worshiping prophet to you?


Quote
The miracle of the Quran being language means nothing its just an excuse to explain why Mohammed had no miracles. Your trying tom explain the word. What arab christians are embracing Islam more and more Arabs leave Islam when actually understanding the Quran, ever heard of Christian Prince either, I saw your debate with him on Paltalk and I gotta say it didn't go well for you Osama. Your article on the challenge of the Quran explains nothing, it's just you trying to overcomplicate a simple verse which says produce a Surah like it unless the Quran which you claim to be perfect makes no sense.

I showed you the Glorious Quran's overwhelming Scientific and Numerical Miracles, and also STUNNING Prophecies:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/ac3.htm#links


You are nothing but a doomed-to-Hell polytheist trinitarian pagan.  You have nothing but noise.  Your false religion of man-made conjectures is empty, and Jesus, peace be upon him, is innocent from all of the garbage that you believe in:

www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac7.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm

Embrace Islam and receive the Peace of GOD Almighty.  Otherwise, get lost to Hell where you belong.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: QuranSearchCom on March 12, 2018, 05:04:47 AM
And did your King Kong masturbate? 

Answer my question above, or else I will ban you.  This question flushes down the toilet your religion's biggest lie about Jesus was perfect and sinless (to make the Creator of the Universe out of him), when your gospel of porn (http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac10.htm#links) says:

1-  He was a drunkard.
2-  He was a glutinous person.
3-  He coveted the sinful things satan was tempting him on (and masturbated).


This is all despite the fact that your bible in many verses says: "Do not covet!".

Go read the verses from your NT at:  www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm

If your next post does not address this, you're out.  I already deleted your long spams on this blog.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: Al Masihi on March 12, 2018, 05:37:50 AM
Osama I am currently showing your disrespectful and foul mouth to all the christians, agnostics, and atheists. Argue like a sane person not like a five year old, secondly Banu Hanifah and Banu Tamim were already muslims at the time of the apostasy wars. Bukhari isn't trustworthy you'd better tell that to the whole islamic world, Bukhari supposedly has isnaad aswell. The false prophets were defeated due to islamic military victories not by winning the hearts of the people. This first of all has nothing to do with the bible so stop trying to change the argument.
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: QuranSearchCom on March 12, 2018, 05:47:51 AM
Banned.  I am true to my word.

As to the tribes that you mentioned, no they were not all Muslims, and they hardly received Islam.  This is why 3 false prophets immediately emerged from them after the death of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

As to Bukhari being very authentic, you mean the same Bukhari who narrated the monkies stoning the she-monkey for committing adultery?  Or the same Bukhari who narrated how they found the dajjal (anti-Christ) chained in an island?  They found all of the Middle East's and world's islands.  No dajjal was found. 

Or is he the same Bukhari that narrated all of the garbage narrations on the mouth of Aisha, on how she used to have sex with the Prophet while taking a bath?


You watch too much bugs bunny dude.  The garbage of the hadiths and your bible is thoroughly discussed at:

www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: Albarra on March 12, 2018, 08:28:57 AM
Osama I am currently showing your disrespectful and foul mouth to all the christians, agnostics, and atheists. Argue like a sane person not like a five year old, secondly Banu Hanifah and Banu Tamim were already muslims at the time of the apostasy wars. Bukhari isn't trustworthy you'd better tell that to the whole islamic world, Bukhari supposedly has isnaad aswell. The false prophets were defeated due to islamic military victories not by winning the hearts of the people. This first of all has nothing to do with the bible so stop trying to change the argument.


Al Masihi felt uncomfortable to answer Osama's question.



Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: Albarra on March 12, 2018, 08:37:39 AM
It's true that Bukhari is authentic, but a small number of hadith are weak, questionable, contradictory, fabricated, etc.
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: Sama on March 12, 2018, 11:01:07 AM
Were She-Monkeys Stoned For Adultery?
by Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi

Introduction

An amusing little polemic regarding a hadith that is recorded in Sahih al-Bukhari has recently surfaced and is being circulated by some apostates from Islam. Naturally, the Christian missionaries too had decided to jump on the bandwagon of smearing Islam through a misinterpretation of this hadith as well.

The hadith is recorded as follows:

    Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:

    Narrated ‘Amru bin Maimun: “During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.”

The basic premise of their “charge” is that the Prophet(P) had ordered the stoning of a she-monkey, and that lapidation for zina (fornication) is extended to animals as well.

(http://www.answering-christianity.com/maimoonchain.gif)

Back to Basics: The Issue of Isnad and Matn

The full citation of the hadith as recorded by al-Bukhari is as follows:

1

On closer scrutiny of the above-recorded hadith, anyone proficient in the sciences of the Hadith (ulum al-hadith) would immediately see the fallacy of such a claim when the matn (text) and isnad (chain of transmission) of the hadith is studied.

Firstly, the person who uttered the above words was not the Prophet Muhammad(P) himself, but by one of his Companions by name of ‘Amru bin Maimun(R). The following is the chain of transmission for this hadith:

The hadith is categorized as mauquf (lit. “stopped”), meaning that it is a saying traced to that of a Companion(R). Therefore, since it is clear that this hadith is not a saying of the Prophet(P), much less ascribed to him, it cannot be a basis for a ruling in Islam.

Secondly, the key phrase in the above hadith is “During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance”, which the critics had obviously overlooked. While we concede that above hadith is indeed accepted as authentic, we would also argue that according to the principles of criticism of the hadith, the matn of the hadith above would be rejected even if it had been ascribed to the Prophet(P). ‘Abdur Rahman I. Doi has outlined this principle by stating that:

    As far as the Matn is concerned, the following principles of criticism of the Hadith are laid down:

    (1) The Hadith should not be contrary to the text or the teaching of the Qur’an or the accepted basic principles of Islam.
    (2) The Hadith should not be against the dictates of reason or laws of nature and common experience.
    (3) The Hadith should not be contrary to the Traditions which have already been accepted by authorities as reliable and authentic by applying all principles.
    (4) The Hadith which sings the praises and excellence of any tribe, place or persons should be generally rejected
    (5) The Hadith that contains the dates and minute details of the future events should be rejected.
    (6) The Hadith that contains some remarks of the Prophet which are not in keeping with the Islamic belief of Prophethood and the position of the Holy Prophet or such expressions as may not be suitable to him, should be rejected.2

Interestingly, Ibn Hajar in his Fath al-Bari had discussed at length the exegesis of the above hadith. He quotes from Ibn Abd al-Barr as follows:

Ibn Abd al-Barr has denounced this report of ‘Amru Ibn Maimun and said: “It includes attributing adultery to a creature not assigned (with distinction between lawful and unlawful) and implementation of legal punishment on animals. This is denounced before scholars”.3

Then Ibn Hajar responds to the above argument of Ibn Abd al-Barr:

…I answer that the event being similar to that of adultery and stoning does not necessitate that it is really adultery or legal punishment. It is called so because it is similar to it, so it does not necessitate assignment of animals (with distinction between lawful and unlawful).4

In other words, even if we assume for the sake of the argument that the claims of the apostates are true and the above hadith is indeed ascribed to the Prophet(P) , the critics will still not be able to make the charge that the Prophet(P) had ordered the stoning of a she-monkey.

Ibn Qutaiba makes further commentary on the above hadith as follows:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/IbnQutaiba256.gif)

They said: You narrated that some monkeys stoned a she-monkey for fornication. If the monkeys stoned her while she is married, the hadith would be funnier. According to this example, you cannot be sure for perhaps monkeys implement many rulings of the Torah! Or probably they embrace Judaism! So, if the monkeys are Jews, then perhaps the pigs are Christians!

Abu Muhammad [‘Abdullah Ibn Qutaiba, d. 276 A.H.] said: In response to this sneer we state that the narrative of monkeys is neither on authority of Allah’s Messneger (peace be upon him) nor any of his Companions; it is merely something mentioned by ‘Amr Ibn Maimon. Muhammad Ibn Khalid Ibn Khadash told me that Muslim Ibn Qutaiba said on authority of Hashim on authority of Hasin on authority of ‘Amr Ibn Maimon that he said, “A she-monkey had committed fornication during Jahiliyyah, so the monkeys stoned her and I stoned her with them”.

Abu Muhammad said: He could have seen the monkeys stoning a she-monkey, so he imagined that they were stoning her because she committed fornication, this cannot be known except by supposition because monkeys do not express themselves and the one who sees them gathering cannot tell whether they fornicate or not. This is a supposition. Perhaps, the old man knew she had fornicated for some reason we do not know for monkeys are the most fornicating animals. Arabs refer to them as examples of (exaggerated) fornication and say: “fornicating more than a monkey”. Unless fornication is common among them, they would not be used as an example. There is none closer to man in marriage and jealousy than them. The animals get hostile with one another, jump over and punish one another. Some bite, some scratch, some break and some smash. Monkeys stone with their hands whom Allah created as man stones. If they stoned one another for a cause rather than fornication and the old man thought it is fornication, it would not be far. If the old man knew about fornication by some evidence and that stoning was for it, it would not be far either because – as I have informed you – they are the most jealous among animals and the closest to man regarding understanding.5

The points we have made should make it clear that ‘Amru bin Maimun was relating his thinking or perception prior to the advent of Islam – how he had foolishly believed that even monkeys had committed adultery! It happened during a period whereby the pre-Islamic Arabs would indulge in the most detestable acts such as burying their daughters alive and doing the tawaf while they were naked. Thus this means that Islam has elevated the status of mankind by making them more rational and mindful of their actions, a conclusion that the haters and enemies of Islam would certainly not like to admit.

If the above hadith is used to condemn Islam with regards to treatment towards animals, then the Bible has the following to say:

    If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.6

In other words, an animal that has committed its sin of adultery is liable to be punished for a “crime” it is unaware of in the first place, according to the Bible.

Conclusions

It is clear that where the hadith regarding the stoning of a she-monkey for adultery is concerned, it is simply a recollection of a Companion(R) of the Prophet(P) regarding this maltreatment of animals during the pre-Islamic period of jahiliyyah, which is in total contradiction to Islamic principles and norms. Thus, the claim that this hadith is the basis from which the lapidation for married adulterers in Islam came about is nothing more than a damp firecracker hurled by the haters and enemies of Islam. That their view of Islam had been tainted by deep ignorance, hatred, paranoia and xenophobia is no big secret, and this latest polemic is ipso facto a confirmation of their current condition.

And only God knows best.
https://www.bismikaallahuma.org/hadith/exegesis/were-she-monkeys-stoned-for-adultery/


IS is Allowed to take SHOWER with our Wife

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 1.272 Narrated by Hisham bin Urwa

(on the authority of his father) that Aisha said, "I and Allah's Messenger (saws) used to take a bath from a single water container, from which we took water simultaneously."

 

Islam has allowed the husband and the wife in marriage every possible liberty to enjoy physical relations with each other, except three:

    It is strictly prohibited to have sexual intercourse with ones wife during her period of menstruation.
    It is strictly prohibited to enter the woman through her anus.
    Although there is no specific prohibition mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah, the majority of the scholars in Islam have voiced their opinion against oral sex, whereby one touches the others private organs with their mouth.

Other than the above three restrictions, one may enjoy physical relations with ones wife any place, any time, and any how their hearts desire.

 Whatever written of Truth and benefit is only due to Allahs Assistance and Guidance, and whatever of error is of me alone. Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the Only Source of Strength.

Your brother and well wisher in Islam,
Burhan
http://www.islamhelpline.net/node/4225
Title: Re: Satanic verses
Post by: QuranSearchCom on March 16, 2018, 04:11:20 AM
As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,

I created and updated the following articles:

www.answering-christianity.com/king_kong.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm#king_of_kings_lie
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm#king_kong

Take care,
Osama Abdallah