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Messages - Saudi Salafi

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Time for some Change?
« on: September 18, 2016, 10:33:09 AM »
 EXACTLY! This site needs to be more organized and professional. Its just filled with scientific miracle and conspiracy theory tables. I some times don't even know if I reached the article or not.

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One relevant thing I should mention, according to recent statistics Chinese people are turning towards Christianity (i.e. towards one concept of God) and China is, I suppose, definitely not a poor people's country.

 Yup, although I believe that is most likely because of the ridiculous amount of Christian missionaries. I would also like to add that there is a great amount of poverty in China:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8510711/Belief-in-God-is-part-of-human-nature-Oxford-study.html

 Although China is getting rid of poverty quickly.

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Therefore, in the view of a skeptic or seeker of truth, the assertion that the Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be peace) could not have accessed knowledge that was implied by the Qur’ānic verses is false. This is due to the fact that the probability of Prophet (upon whom be peace) exchanging ideas and practices with other cultures is higher than the probability of the Prophet (upon whom be peace) not accessing such knowledge. Therefore a new approach is needed to overcome to this intellectual obstacle, something which I will address later."

^ Isn't that just fuelling the accusations of plagiarism??


 Read the whole article. He even said in the end of the paragraph "which I will address later". Nobody is saying that the Prophet plagiarized anything.

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The two are already there bro

 Ok, so whathat? Richard Dawkins has nothing to do with this and the last article hasn't been refuted by anyone. Go look it up.

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Refutations as in the first article was for God and the other 3 including one on dawkins site were against. Were they strong arguments for the against in your opinion or were they baseless and on what sense ?

 Give me the links.

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@Abdullah have you read the refutations and the dawkins one as well ? what were your thoughts or own refutations ?

Regarding that Oxford study,my friend who's a Psychology major who i had find and read the actual study about that link said it was about 300 pages long if my memory serves me well and it was extremely over the top complicated. Maybe not what we might think it is. Cause i think all it really mentioned was people in rural/poorer situations believed in God while others in more social areas didn't.

 What refutations? Both poor and rich showed signs of believing in God, however the poor showed it more. And that is natural of course.

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i want you to explain what you think dahaha means because you haven't explained it in your DAHAHA HOAX section, no it is a miracle because people at the time in mecca thought the earth was flat, btw your explanation of flatness is extremely unhelpful and doesn't make any sense...."when the Quran says things like "do they not see how the Earth was flattened" it means flattened to the eye" that makes absolutely no sense. the arabic word is SUTIHAT meaning pressed and expanded not flattened. Brother Osama explained this already http://www.answering-christianity.com/sutihat_miracle.htm


 Your attempt to save the lie of the "scientific miracles" which many scholars have forbid because of its harmfulness to Islam and Muslims (Ramihs and I are an example of that) is horrible. You make a similar claim that I have refuted already:

 "So for example if the Quran says that the sea is blue. Is that a "miracle"? Because I could argue that the prophet (peace be upon him) never saw any sea and that no information about the color of the sea reached him. BTW I know that the color of the sea is reflected so no need to tell me. Your claim is similar to a claim that Brother Hamza Tzortis has dealt with. Read his second point over here:

http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/essays-articles/exploring-the-quran/does-the-quran-contain-scientific-miracles-a-new-approach/ "


 This paragraph from the essay simply DESTROYS your point:

"It is important to note that 7th Century Arabian economic life was based around trade and commerce. Travelling as far as the Far East was a common occurrence. Therefore, it is not impossible that there was an exchange of popular scientific practices and ideas. The historian Ira M. Lapidus in his book, A History of Islamic Societies, clearly states that the Arabs in Mecca were established traders travelling far and wide:

“By the mid-sixth century, as heir to Petra and Palmyra, Mecca became one of the important caravan cities of the Middle East. The Meccans carried spices, leather, drugs, cloth and slaves which had come from Africa or the Far East to Syria, and returned money, weapons, cereals, and wine to Arabia.”[31]

Therefore, in the view of a skeptic or seeker of truth, the assertion that the Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be peace) could not have accessed knowledge that was implied by the Qur’ānic verses is false. This is due to the fact that the probability of Prophet (upon whom be peace) exchanging ideas and practices with other cultures is higher than the probability of the Prophet (upon whom be peace) not accessing such knowledge. Therefore a new approach is needed to overcome to this intellectual obstacle, something which I will address later."

 I suggest that you stop trying to defend this corruption and sin. It brought almost no good and a lot of bad to Muslims sadly. And as I have said above, Ramihs and I are an example of that.


refuted by brother Osama in the article about scientific miracles itself ;)

 Are you by any chance a troll? I will not show the stupidity and fallacy of this phrase anymore. Instead, I would like to ask you where did Osama refute my claims in his "scientific miracles" section? Quote me a passage from his section that refutes my arguments. You are becoming like Osama, you think that your website is perfect and whenever someone refutes your material you give them the refuted material again claiming that the rebuttal was refuted inside the link!

explain to me what DAHAHA means according to you then i'll show you the refutation

 Dahaha according to ALL translators (people professional in Arabic!) means the following:

YUSUF ALI
And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);

SHAKIR
And the earth, He expanded it after that.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And after that He spread the earth.

MUHSIN KHAN
And after that He spread the earth;

DR. GHALI
And the earth, after that He flattened it (for life).

PICKTHALL
And after that He spread the earth,


 If you want more translators then I will be pleased to give you them. Even if Dahaha means round or egg-shaped, I had already dealt with that both, scientifically and grammatically. And NONE of the tafsirs say that Dahaha means made it round! Even though all of them agree on the roundness of the Earth. They even used other verses from the Quran. But why didn't they use the Dahaha verse? However, their is an exception! A person whom Osama has great respect for his work! Rashad Khalifah! A person who claimed that he was a prophet from Allah and he translated Dahaha to mean "made it round". But then Osama mocks and insults the Salafis who fight against these false prophets and lies! Weird, isn't it? And then he calls them the "horn of Satan" even though they fight against innovation and false prophets. Don't worry about that, I will talk about ALL of that later on. What you are doing by changing the meaning of Dahaha is changing the word of Allah.

 
Why would i lie to you? if something is refuted then i'd tell you it's refuted, if something isn't refuted then i wouldn't say it's refuted, brother Osama just refuted Hamza again...Hamza isn't an arab and he's trying to interpret the Qur'an using translations so there's all the proof to make me stay away from such a person

 Is this Osama's GREAT rebuttal to Hamza Tzortis? How do we know that Hamza doesn't know Arabic in the first place? Just because he is Greek that doesn't make him not able to speak Arabic. Second, Hamza's rebuttals to this scientific miracles aren't even language related! He uses the same translations that Osama uses. Third, the Arabic which we speak nowadays is NOT the original Arabic of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)! It is quite different. Although it is the same in many cases it still has changed so much! And Osama is Palestinian and I am a Saudi. And clearly the Saudi accent (Najdi accent) is closer to original Arabic than Osama's Palestinian accent! So I speak Arabic better than Osama does! So as an Arab, Hamza's material is perfect and there is nothing wrong with it. DONE! What kind of stupid excuse is this? He refuted the "miracles" historically not with language LOL! It doesn't matter where he comes from. Are you an Arab in the first place Omar Ahmed?

Also in other threads or topics you keep telling people who ask questions to shut up, who are you to say that? they can ask as many questions as they like and if you don't like it DON'T ANSWER. simple as that, are you trying to terrify them and stop them from asking questions? they have doubts or waswas about something and you want them to stay like that? your attitude towards people is atrocious.
 


 Can you PLEASE STOP LYING! You first lie and insult Hamza Tzortis and now me? You do know that lying is a sin, right? Why lie? What is the point of lying? Seriously! I NEVER told anyone to shut up! I only told Ramihs to stop asking many questions because of 2 things:

1- Asking too many questions was a trait hated by the prophet (peace be upon him)
2- It causes him many doubts which might weaken his faith

Rami asks to many questions to the point of it being worrying. Everyone has the right to ask questions, however Rami is an other case. Ibn Taymiyah once said that one shouldn't let his heart be a sponge for questions because that is harmful. YOUR attitude towards people is DECEPTIVE and ATROCIOUS! I have had enough of your lies brother, seriously! STOP IT!


You seem to be following Osama blindly. If it is forbidden to follow the best of scholars blindly then how about Osama Abdallah?





As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,


Another STUNNING Miracle discovered!


Quite amazingly, the youtube video that Abdullah Almadi gave me that supposedly refutes my points on DAHAHA (earth spread out spherically), has further proven my points and has given me a new Scientific point that I overlooked.  Here are the details:



1-  The youtube video is located here:  https://youtu.be/5D4ChAnqkxU.

2-  My detailed proofs about the earth spread out spherically are listed here:

www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2243.msg10156.html#msg10156
www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2270.msg10136.html#msg10136






3-  Now, in the youtube video, we find the following:



The Noble Verses are listed exactly after each and they say in Noble Verses 79:30-32

And the earth after that He has spherically expanded
Brought forth from it its water and pasture
and the MOUNTAINS HE SET FIRMLY.


Indeed, scientists have proven that:

1-  The earth has spherically expanded.

2-  The earth produced its water and pasture on a large scale as a result.  I have posted a Scientific Video from History Channel proving this:





3-  The mountains due to this expansion were formed; due to the plate tectonics movements, which caused for land to be pushed on top of each other, which formed mountains and hills.  You can learn about this at:

https://www.google.com/#q=mountains+formed+through+plate+tectonics

Read all of the details at my article:





So Abdullah Almadi, like the infidels' stubborness, the more you fight the Glorious Quran, the more you prove it.

More to come on your other nonsense, insha'Allah.....

Take care,
Osama Abdallah


 By Allah I knew that this was gonna happen! Instead of dealing with the material that I wrote Osama will advertise his "scientific miracles" again. Osama, refute the material that I wrote THEN you can show us your GLORIOUS, AMAZING, and STUNNING scientific miracles. Now please get on topic. You were accusing me of "running away" before, but what happened to that tough talk now Osama? By Allah there is no one attacking the Holy and Noble Quran besides you and your "scientific miracles" friends. It is harmful to Muslims and Islam. And I am not going to repeat that again!

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 Thanks a lot for sharing. Atheism is a huge problem today for Muslims. Not as much as it is for Christians (60 million will leave Christianity by 2050) but still a problem for Muslims. Anyways, their is an other evidence for the existence of God. A study in Oxford which costed about 2 million pounds around 20 countries with 50 academics proves that humans are naturally predisposed to believe in God! This is something that we call fitrah in Islam. Check this out:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8510711/Belief-in-God-is-part-of-human-nature-Oxford-study.html

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your Dahaha HOAX section doesn't prove anything because it has been totally refuted ;) do you mean the verses say the Earth is flat???

 My Dahaha HOAX section was a rebuttal to Osama Abdallah's so called rebuttal to my refutation of his Dahaha lie. Show me were it has been refuted? Like I said before, all you can do is say this:

"This doesn't matter because it has been refuted"

 You did that to Hamza Tzortis and I am waiting for you to show me the rebuttal to Hamza's article regarding the scientific miracles. Or did you lie on purpose? Now you do the same thing for my statements over here. To you this line ("This has been refuted") is enough to refute the actual claim itself. Or you know what? Why am I even writing this? I could just say this to you and end it all:

 Your rebuttal (which doesn't exist BTW) to my Dahaha HOAX section doesn't prove anything because it has been totally refuted ;)

 How does it feel to have your own medicine used against you brother? As for your question, no. The Quran doesn't say that the Earth is flat and it even might support the roundness of the Earth. There is a verse in the Quran which many scholars like Ibn Hazm use to prove the roundness of the Earth. When the Quran says things like "do they not see how the Earth was flattened" it means flattened to the eye. It was made to look flat but its still round. This is the opinion of almost all scholars with the exception of Al-Jalalayn and their tafsir is quite not reliable. And with all of that it is still not a "scientific miracle" because the concept of a round Earth dates back to the 6th century. [1]

Source:

[1]:  Dicks, D.R. (1970). Early Greek Astronomy to Aristotle. Ithaca, N.Y.: Cornell University Press. pp. 72–198. ISBN 978-0-8014-0561-7.

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no it wasn't an error back then, because the Qur'an agrees with ALL times that's why Allah didn't say THE EARTH IS ROUND but rather said (Dahaha) because it agreed back then with science and it agrees with science now

 Am I talking to a wall? Go to the Dahaha HOAX section on this article to see my rebuttal to the claim. Dahaha doesn't mean made it round, again stop changing the word of Allah almighty.

Quote from: Omar Ahmed
link=topic=2275.msg10194#msg10194 date=1474065886
Do you really think anyone would've followed prophet Muhammad pbuh if there were scientifiic errors in the Qur'an back then?

 Yes, would you follow him? Many Rabbis and Priests converted to Islam at his time because he was in the Torah and Injil. There is a lot if evidence for the prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

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The Qur'an never said the moon was split IN TWO PARTS...Hamza Tzortis? he's been thoroughly refuted and he is hated and seen as a disgrace to islam....he's even labelled as an extremist. you seem to think he's some sort of prophet, hell do you believe that Prophet Muhammad pbuh isn't the last prophet? because many people who are against scientific miracles in the Qur'an could say no


 Yes, the Qur'an does say that Muhammad (peace be upon him) split the moon. Check Surat Al-Qamar (the Moon) and its tafsir and explanation. Second, No where was Hamza Tzortis refuted regarding the scientific miracle rejection of his. No where because NOPE of the people on this site can! I take my knowledge from him because he, unlike yourself (no offense), is professional in his arguments and cites acanemic sources. All you can say regarding his arguments is the following "that has been refuted". To you that line ("that has been refuted") is enough to refute the actual argument.

"he's been thoroughly refuted and he is hated and seen as a disgrace to islam"

 Why are you lying about the brother and insulting him? That man defends Islam and is loved by many Muslims. His Facebook page has more than 100k likes. He is very professional and no one hates him besides the anti-Islamics. If there is anyone who is a disgrace to Islam over here then that would be the people who lie about their Muslim brothers!!! Also, just because the Quran doesn't say something then that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. The hadiths show us that he split the moon. Are you a Quranist by any chance? May Allah guide you to the right path brother.

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Noah and Mary
« on: September 16, 2016, 06:20:36 PM »
@RoyalMuslim Just to follow up but isn't it impossible for a human to even live that long ?

 You ask many questions. Stop it! Yes, but back then humans used to live extrenely long times. Even acording to the Bible and Torah.

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I'm sorry but in the end, was it an eclipse or did the moon get cracked?

 It is all rubbish. The prophet (peace be upon him) split the moon.
no it wasn't ;) it is really people like you that cause issues and cause anti islamics to try and refute the Qur'an


 The "rubbish" was the anti-Islamic video brother. The prophet (peace be upon him) split the moon according to most scholars wether you like it or not. The only ones who are causing the anti-Islamics to attack the Quran is NO ONE! They are kufar, they do it wether we did something or not. But people like yourself who follow the "scientific miracle" HOAX blindly and still believe in it even after it has been DEBUNKED and when scholars warned against its danger you still believe in it. It is embarrassing and makes Islam look bad. Hamza Tzortis himself who was a former supporter of this lie said that he felt embarrassed because of what he had done. Stop accusing me falsley brother.

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 If it is discovered later on that the Quran contradicts science in some way in the future. Wold you disbelieve in it?
that will never happen ;)

 Read my original comment brother. There was a scientific contradiction in the Quran at the time of the prophet (peace be upon him) and the old scholars. How ever science know longer considers it to be a mistake.

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@Abdullah hasn't Maurice's claims been refuted ? (On the wikipedia section of Islam and science which is SWARMING with answering islam members which we should fix btw)

I mean... it depends on the level of the so called error.. all I've been trying to research is does it contain 1 error because one could be fatal. Also where could the proof of no errors be found somewhere reliable? (Is the main reason i still come on this site to keep my mind at ease).

 Maurice hasn't been refuted from what I saw at all. Second, what is this so called "fatal" error that you find in the Quran? We cannot fix the amount of anti-Islamics on the internet. They will exist every where and in all times. They have been their since the time of the prophet (peace be upon him. Even if the error was fatal, science always changes. You ask to many questions which could be bad. Ibn Taymiyah said that one's heart shouldn't be a sponge for questions so that one of these questions causes him great doubt. 400 years ago they said that the Sun revolves around the Earth and now the opposite. 3000 years ago they said the Earth is flat but now that it is round. Science changes. It always changes. I already gave you a source which claims that the Quran has no errors. Do you want the source to be Muslim or non-Muslim? Do you expect a Non-Muslim to claim that the Quran has no errors instead of lying? The only non-Muslim that I found was Maurice and Keith Moore. Other than that I don't know anybody.

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