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(Introvert, I have an issue with you posting as a Muslim.  I have removed your nonsense.  Stick with questions and wait for answers.  Don't fabricate lies on Islam.  This is your last warning.  Osama)




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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Was Ismael sent as a warner?
« on: June 02, 2018, 02:47:46 pm »
Muhammad SAW was sent as the first and only warner to the Arabs who were deeply entrenched in paganism. However Ismael A.S is also a consider beloved prophet of Allah who informed his sons about the one and only god of the heavens and the earth. However seeing as Ismael A.S was the father of the Arabs, wasn't he a warner aswell?

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David wood presented this argument a couple of years ago and I was just wondering if anyone ever debunked his claims
     

He quotes from both Islamic and biblical scripture
 

 
How Could God Punish Jesus for the Sins of Others?
pherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
His disciple John later said that “he appeared so that he might take away our sins” (1 John 3:5).

Jesus’ sacrificial death gives rise to one of the most common Muslim objections to Christianity: Wouldn’t it be unfair or unjust for God to punish Jesus for the sins of others? However, if Muslims think that this is a good objection, they apparently haven’t read their own sources.

Let’s take a closer look at this objection.



Here are the sources cited in this video:

I. NO BEARER OF BURDEN SHALL BEAR ANOTHER’S BURDEN

Qur’an 6:164—Say, “Shall I seek a Lord, other than Allah while He is the Lord of all things?” And no soul earns evil but only against itself; nor does any bearer of burden bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord will be your return, and He will inform you of that wherein you used to differ.

Qur’an 17:13-15—And We have fastened every man’s deeds to his neck, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall bring out for him a book which he will find wide open. (It will be said to him): “Read your book. You yourself are sufficient as a reckoner against you this Day.” Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his own self. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another’s burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).

Qur’an 35:18—And no bearer of burdens shall bear another's burden, and if one heavily laden calls another to (bear) his load, nothing of it will be lifted even though he be near of kin.

Qur’an 39:7—If you disbelieve, then verily, Allah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, so He will inform you what you used to do. Verily, He is the All-Knower of that which is in (men's) breasts.

Qur’an 53:33-42—Have you then seen him who turns his back? And gives a little and (then) withholds. Has he the knowledge of the unseen so that he can see? Or, has he not been informed of what is in the scriptures of Musa? And (of) Ibrahim who fulfilled (the commandments): That no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another; and that man shall have nothing but what he strives for; and that his striving shall soon be seen; then shall he be rewarded for it with the fullest reward; and that to your Lord is the goal . . . ?

II. SOME WILL BEAR THE BURDENS OF OTHERS

Qur’an 16:22-25—Your God is one God; so (as for) those who do not believe in the hereafter, their hearts are ignorant and they are proud. Truly Allah knows what they hide and what they manifest; surely He does not love the proud. And when it is said to them, what is it that your Lord has revealed? They say: Stories of the ancients; that they may bear their burdens entirely on the day of resurrection and also of the burdens of those whom they lead astray without knowledge; now surely evil is what they bear.

Qur’an 29:12-13—And those who disbelieve say to those who believe: “Follow our way and we will verily bear your sins,” never will they bear anything of their sins. Surely, they are liars. And verily, they shall bear their own loads, and other loads besides their own, and verily, they shall be questioned on the Day of Resurrection about that which they used to fabricate.

III. CHRISTIANS AND JEWS WILL BEAR THE BURDENS OF MUSLIMS

Sahih Muslim 6665—Abu Musa reported that Allah’s Messenger said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your rescue from Hell-Fire.

Sahih Muslim 6666—Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah’s Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire. Umar b. And al-Aziz took an oath: By One besides Whom there is no god but He, thrice that his father had narrated that to him from Allah's Messenger.

Sahih Muslim 6668—Abu Burda reported Allah’s Messenger as saying: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians.

110 Hadith Qudsi #8—Narrated Abu Musa: Allah’s Messenger said: On the Day of Resurrection, my Ummah (nation) will be gathered into three groups. One sort will enter Paradise without rendering an account (of their deeds). Another sort will be reckoned an easy account and admitted into Paradise. Yet another sort will come bearing on their backs heaps of sins like great mountains. Allah will ask the angels though He knows best about them: Who are these people? They will reply: They are humble slaves of yours. He will say: Unload the sins from them and put the same over the Jews and Christians: then let the humble slaves get into Paradise by virtue of My Mercy.

IV. MUHAMMAD HAD A BURDEN OF SIN

Qur’an 40:55—Then have patience (O Muhammad). Lo! the promise of Allah is true. And ask forgiveness of thy sin, and hymn the praise of thy Lord at fall of night and in the early hours.

Qur’an 47:19—So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and believing women. Allah knoweth (both) your place of turmoil and your place of rest.

Qur’an 48:1-2—Lo! We have given thee (O Muhammad) a signal victory, that Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favour unto thee, and may guide thee on a right path . . .

Sahih al-Bukhari 6307—Narrated Abu Hurairah: I heard Allah’s Messenger saying, “By Allah! I seek Allah’s forgiveness and turn to Him in repentance for more than seventy times a day.”

V. JESUS HAD NO BURDEN OF SIN

Qur’an 19:19—He [the angel] said [to Mary]: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son [i.e., Jesus].

Sahih al-Bukhari 3286—Narrated Abu Hurairah: The Prophet said, When any human being is born, Satan touches him at both sides of the body with his two fingers, except Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), whom Satan tried to touch (but failed), so he touched the placenta-cover (instead).

Hebrews 4:15—For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

1 Peter 2:21-22—To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.

1 John 3:5—But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

 

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Muhammad SAW character
« on: May 14, 2018, 12:03:56 pm »
Assalamualaikum can anyone please list some authentic Hadiths in regards to the character of our beloved prophet. Much appreciated

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Dear Osama Abdullah
« on: April 27, 2018, 12:10:12 am »
You need to make a correction to three of your articles 

 http://www.answering-christianity.com/is_allah_greatest_of_all_deceivers.htm
 
 

 http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_22.htm
 
Both of these articles claim that Allah "decieves" although the correct term used in the translation is "plotted"; against allahs enemies that is
 
 Chapter 3 The family of Imran سورة آل عمران - Aal-e-Imran: Verse 54
وَمَكَرُوا وَمَكَرَ اللَّهُ ۖ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
Chapter 8 Spoils of war, booty سورة الأنفال - Al-Anfal: Verse 30
وَإِذْ يَمْكُرُ بِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيُثْبِتُوكَ أَوْ يَقْتُلُوكَ أَوْ يُخْرِجُوكَ ۚ وَيَمْكُرُونَ وَيَمْكُرُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah.
 
There is a major difference between the term "plotter" and "deciever". The latter of which is constantly attributed to Satan within the Quran.
   
Chapter 35 Originator سورة فاطر - Fatir: Verse 5
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّ وَعْدَ اللَّهِ حَقٌّ ۖ فَلَا تَغُرَّنَّكُمُ الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا ۖ وَلَا يَغُرَّنَّكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الْغَرُورُ
O men! Certainly the promise of Allah is true. Let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver deceive you about Allah.
Chapter 2 The Cow سورة البقرة - Al-Baqara: Verse 9
يُخَادِعُونَ اللَّهَ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلَّا أَنْفُسَهُمْ وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ
Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
Chapter 3 The family of Imran سورة آل عمران - Aal-e-Imran: Verse 196
لَا يَغُرَّنَّكَ تَقَلُّبُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فِي الْبِلَادِ
Let not the strutting about of the Unbelievers through the land deceive thee:
   
 
http://www.answering-christianity.com/was_muta_immoral.htm


 Also in the article above you are committing kufr by making a claim that abrogation doesn't exist in Islam although Allah SWT has made it concisely clear in the quran.
 
 Chapter 2 The Cow سورة البقرة - Al-Baqara: Verse 106
مَا نَنْسَخْ مِنْ آيَةٍ أَوْ نُنْسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا ۗ أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

 So Brother Osama please update these articles so you're not unintentionally blasphemeing Allah
 

 

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Stupid link removed by the Admin, Osama Abdallah.

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VITA ADAE ET EVAE

From "The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament"
R.H. Charles
Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1913
i 1 When they were driven out from paradise, they made themselves a booth, and spent seven days mourning and lamenting in great grief.

ii 1 But after seven days, they began to be hungry and started to look for victual to eat, and they

2 found it not. Then Eve said to Adam: 'My lord, I am hungry. Go, look for (something) for us to eat. Perchance the Lord God will look back and pity us and recall us to the place in which we were before.

iii I And Adam arose and walked seven days over all that land, and found no victual such as they

2 used to have in paradise. And Eve said to Adam: 'Wilt thou slay me? that I may die, and perchance God the Lord will bring thee into paradise, for on my account hast thou been driven thence.'

3 Adam answered: 'Forbear, Eve, from such words, that peradventure God bring not some other curse upon us. How is it possible that I should stretch forth my hand against my own flesh? Nay, let us arise and look for something for us to live on, that we fail not.'

iv 1 And they walked about and searched for nine days, and they found none such as they were used to have in paradise, but found only animals'

2 food. And Adam said to Eve: 'This hath the Lord provided for animals and brutes to eat;

3 but we used to have angels' food. But it is just and right that we lament before the sight of God who made us. Let us repent with a great penitence: perchance the Lord will be gracious to us and will pity us and give us a share of something for our living.'

v 1 And Eve said to Adam: 'What is penitence? Tell me, what sort of penitence am I to do? Let us not put too great a labour on ourselves, which we cannot endure, so that the Lord will not hearken to our prayers: and will turn away His countenance from us, because we have not

3 fulfilled what we promised. My lord, how much penitence hast thou thought (to do) for I have brought trouble and anguish upon thee?'

vi 1 And Adam said to Eve: 'Thou canst not do so much as I, but do only so much as thou hast strength for. For I will spend forty days fasting, but do thou arise and go to the river Tigris and lift up a stone and stand on it in the water up to thy neck in the deep of the river. And let no speech proceed out of thy mouth, since we are unworthy to address the Lord, for our lips are unclean from the unlawful and forbidden tree.

2 And do thou stand in the water of the river thirty-seven days. But I will spend forty days in the water of Jordan, perchance the Lord God will take pity upon us.'

vii 1 And Eve walked to the river Tigris and did

2 as Adam had told her. Likewise, Adam walked to the river Jordan and stood on a stone up to his neck in water.

viii 1 And Adam said: 'I tell thee, water of Jordan, grieve with me, and assemble to me all swimming (creatures), which are in thee, and let them surround me and mourn in company with me. Not for themselves let them lament, but for me; for it is not they that have sinned, but I.'

3 Forthwith, all living things came and surrounded him, and, from that hour, the water of Jordan stood (still) and its current was stayed.'

ix 1 And eighteen days passed by; then Satan was wroth and transformed himself into the brightness of angels, and went away to the river

2 Tigris to Eve, and found her weeping, and the devil himself pretended to grieve with her, and he began to weep and said to her: 'Come out of the river and lament no more. Cease now from sorrow and moans. Why art thou anxious

3 and thy husband Adam? The Lord God hath heard your groaning and hath accepted your penitence, and all we angels have entreated on your behalf, and made supplication to the Lord;

4 and he hath sent me to bring you out of the water and give you the nourishment which you had in paradise, and for which you are crying

5 out. Now come out of the water and I will conduct you to the place where your victual hath been made ready.'

x 1 But Eve heard and believed and went out of the water of the river, and her flesh was (trembling)

2 like grass, from the chill of the water. And when she had gone out, she fell on the earth and the devil raised her up and led her to Adam.

3 But when Adam had seen her and the devil with her, he wept and cried aloud and said: 'O Eve, Eve, where is the labour of thy penitence?

4 How hast thou been again ensnared by our adversary, by whose means we have been estranged from our abode in paradise and spiritual joy?'

xi 1 And when she heard this, Eve understood that (it was) the devil (who) had persuaded her to go out of the river; and she fell on her face on the earth and her sorrow and groaning and wailing

2 was redoubled. And she cried out and said: 'Woe unto thee, thou devil. Why dost thou attack us for no cause? What hast thou to do with us? What have we done to thee? for thou pursuest us with craft? Or why doth thy malice

3 assail us? Have we taken away thy glory and caused thee to be without honour? Why dost thou harry us, thou enemy (and persecute us) to the death in wickedness and envy?'

xii 1 And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: 'O Adam! all my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens

2 in the midst of the angels and for thee was I cast out in the earth.' Adam answered, 'What dost

3 thou tell me? What have I done to thee or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us?'

xiii 1 The devil replied, 'Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled

2 from that place. When thou wast formed. I was hurled out of the presence of God and banished from the company of the angels. When God blew into thee the breath of life and thy face and likeness was made in the image of God, Michael also brought thee and made (us) worship thee in the sight of God; and God the Lord spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.'

xiv 1 And Michael went out and called all the angels saying:

'Worship the image of God as the Lord God hath commanded.'

And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said: 'Worship the image of God

3 the Lord.' And I answered, 'I have no (need) to worship Adam.' And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, 'Why dost thou urge me? I will not worship an inferior and younger being (than I). I am his senior in the Creation, before he was made was I already made. It is his duty to worship me.'

xv 1,2 When the angels, who were under me, heard this, they refused to worship him. And Michael saith, 'Worship the image of God, but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord God will be wrath

3 with thee.' And I said, 'If He be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the Highest.'

xvi 1 And God the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on

2 thy account were we expelled from our abodes into this world and hurled on the earth. And

3 straightway we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we

4 were grieved when we saw thee in such joy and luxury. And with guile I cheated thy wife and caused thee to be expelled through her (doing) from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory.

xvii 1 When Adam heard the devil say this, he cried out and wept and spake: 'O Lord my God, my life is in thy hands. Banish this Adversary far from me, who seeketh to destroy my soul, and give

2,3 me his glory which he himself hath lost.' And at that moment, the devil vanished before him. But Adam endured in his penance, standing for forty days (on end) in the water of Jordan.

xviii 1 And Eve said to Adam: 'Live thou, my Lord, to thee life is granted, since thou hast committed neither the first nor the second error. But I have erred and been led astray for I have not kept the commandment of God; and now banish me from the light of thy life and I will go to the sunsetting,

2 and there will I be, until I die.' And she began to walk towards the western parts and to mourn

3 and to weep bitterly and groan aloud. And she made there a booth, while she had in her womb offspring of three months old.

xix 1 And when the time of her bearing approached, she began to be distressed with pains, and she

2 cried aloud to the Lord and said: 'Pity me, O Lord, assist me.' And she was not heard and the

3 mercy of God did not encircle her. And she said to herself: 'Who shall tell my lord Adam? I implore you, ye luminaries of heaven, what time ye return to the east, bear a message to my lord Adam.'

xx 1 But in that hour, Adam said: 'The complaint of Eve hath come to me. Perchance, once more hath the serpent fought with her.'

2 And he went and found her in great distress. And Eve said: 'From the moment I saw thee, my lord, my grief-laden soul was refreshed. And now entreat the Lord God on my behalf to

3 hearken unto thee and look upon me and free me from my awful pains.' And Adam entreated the Lord for Eve.

xxi 1 And behold, there came twelve angels and two 'virtues', standing on the right and on the left

2 of Eve; and Michael was standing on the right; and he stroked her on the face as far as to the breast and said to Eve: 'Blessed art thou, Eve, for Adam's sake. Since his prayers and intercessions are great, I have been sent that thou mayst receive our help. Rise up now, and

3 prepare thee to bear. And she bore a son and he was shining; and at once the babe rose up and ran and bore a blade of grass in his hands, and gave it to his mother, and his name was called Cain.

xxii 1 And Adam carried Eve and the boy and led

2 them to the East. And the Lord God sent divers seeds by Michael the archangel and gave to Adam and showed him how to work and till the ground, that they might have fruit by which they and all their generations might live.

3 For thereafter Eve conceived and bare a son, whose name was Abel; and Cain and Abel used to stay together.

4 And Eve said to Adam: 'My lord, while I slept, I saw a vision, as it were the blood of our son Abel in the hand of Cain, who was gulping it down in his mouth. Therefore I have sorrow.'

5 And Adam said, 'Alas if Cain slew Abel. Yet let us separate them from each other mutually, and let us make for each of them separate dwellings.'

xxiii 1 And they made Cain an husbandman, (but) Abel they made a shepherd; in order that in this wise they might be mutually separated.

2 And thereafter, Cain slew Abel, but Adam was then one hundred and thirty years old, but Abel was slain when he was one hundred and twenty-two years. And thereafter Adam knew his wife and he begat a son and called his name Seth.

xxiv 1 And Adam said to Eve, 'Behold, I have begotten a son, in place of Abel, whom Cain slew.'

2 And after Adam had begotten Seth, he lived eight hundred years and begat thirty sons and thirty daughters; in all sixty-three children. And they were increased over the face of the earth in their nations.

xxv 1 And Adam said to Seth, 'Hear, my son Seth, that I may relate to thee what I heard and

2 saw after your mother and I had been driven out of paradise. When we were at prayer, there

3 came to me Michael the archangel, a messenger of God. And I saw a chariot like the wind and its wheels were fiery and I was caught up into the Paradise of righteousness, and I saw the Lord sitting and his face was flaming fire that could not be endured. And many thousands of angels were on the right and the left of that chariot.

xxvi 1 When I saw this, I was confounded, and terror seized me and I bowed myself down before

2 God with my face to the earth. And God said to me, 'Behold thou diest, since thou hast transgressed the commandment of God, for thou didst hearken rather to the voice of thy wife, whom I gave into thy power, that thou mightst hold her to thy will. Yet thou didst listen to her and didst pass by My words.'

xxvii 1 And when I heard these words of God, I fell prone on the earth and worshipped the Lord and said, 'My Lord, All powerful and merciful God, Holy and Righteous One, let not the name that is mindful of Thy majesty be blotted out, but convert my soul, for I die and my

2 breath will go out of my mouth. Cast me not out from Thy presence, (me) whom Thou didst form of the clay of the earth. Do not banish from Thy favour him whom Thou didst nourish.'

3 And lo! a word concerning thee came upon me and the Lord said to me, 'Since thy days were fashioned, thou hast been created with a love of knowledge; therefore there shall not be taken from thy seed for ever the (right) to serve Me.'

xxviii 1 And when I heard these words. I threw myself on the earth and adored the Lord God and said, 'Thou art the eternal and supreme God; and all creatures give thee honour and praise.

2 'Thou art the true Light gleaming above all light(s), the Living Life, infinite mighty Power. To Thee, the spiritual powers give honour and praise. Thou workest on the race of men the abundance of Thy mercy.'

3 After I had worshipped the Lord, straightway Michael, God's archangel, seized my hand and

4 cast me out of the paradise of 'vision' and of God's command. And Michael held a rod in his hand, and he touched the waters, which were round about paradise, and they froze hard.

xxix 1 And I went across, and Michael the archangel went across with me, and he led me back to

2 the place whence he had caught me up. Hearken, my son Seth, even to the rest of the secrets [and sacraments] that shall be, which were revealed to me, when I had eaten of the tree of the

3 knowledge, and knew and perceived what will come to pass in this age; [what God intends to do

4 to his creation of the race of men. The Lord will appear in a flame of fire (and) from the mouth of His majesty He will give commandments and statutes [from His mouth will proceed a two-edged sword] and they will sanctify Him in the house of the habitation of His majesty.

5 And He will show them the marvellous place of His majesty. And then they will build a house to the Lord their God in the land which He shall prepare for them and there they will transgress His statutes and their sanctuary will be burnt up and their land will be deserted and they

6 themselves will be dispersed; because they have kindled the wrath of God. And once more He will cause them to come back from their dispersion; and again they will build the house of God;

7 and in the last time the house of God will be exalted greater than of old. And once more iniquity will exceed righteousness. And thereafter God will dwell with men on earth [in visible form]; and then, righteousness will begin to shine. And the house of God will be honoured in the age and their enemies will no more be able to hurt the men, who are believing in God; and God will stir up for Himself a faithful people, whom He shall save for eternity, and the impious shall be punished

8 by God their king, the men who refused to love His law. Heaven and earth, nights and days, and all creatures shall obey Him, and not overstep His commandment. Men shall not change their

9 works, but they shall be changed from forsaking the law of the Lord. Therefore the Lord shall repel from Himself the wicked, and the just shall shine like the sun, in the sight of God. And

10 in that time, shall men be purified by water from their sins. But those who are unwilling to be purified by water shall be condemned. And happy shall the man be, who hath ruled his soul, when the Judgement shall come to pass and the greatness of God be seen among men and their deeds be inquired into by God the just judge.

xxx 1 After Adam was nine hundred and thirty years old, since he knew that his days were coming to an end, he said: 'Let all my sons assemble themselves to me, that I may bless them before I die, and speak with them.'

2 And they were assembled in three parts, before his sight, in the house of prayer, where they used

3 to worship the Lord God. And they asked him (saying): 'What concerns thee, Father, that thou shouldst assemble us, and why dost thou lie on

4 thy bed? 'Then Adam answered and said: 'My sons, I am sick and in pain.' And all his sons said to him: 'What does it mean, father, this illness and pain?'

xxxi 1 Then said Seth his son: 'O (my) lord, perchance thou hast longed after the fruit of paradise, which thou wast wont to eat, and therefore thou liest in sadness? Tell me and I will go to the nearest gates of paradise and put dust on my head and throw myself down on the earth before the gates of paradise and lament and make entreaty to God with loud lamentation; perchance he will hearken to me and send his angel to bring me the fruit, for which thou hast longed.'

2 Adam answered and said: 'No, my son, I do not long (for this), but I feel weakness and great

3 pain in my body.' Seth answered, 'What is pain, my lord father? I am ignorant; but hide it not from us, but tell us (about it).'

And Adam answered and said: 'Hear me, my sons. When God made us, me and your mother, and placed us in paradise and gave us every tree bearing fruit to eat, he laid a prohibition on us concerning the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is in the midst of paradise; (saying)

2 'Do not eat of it.' But God gave a part of paradise to me and (a part) to your mother: the trees of the eastern part and the north, which is over against Aquilo he gave to me, and to your mother he gave the part of the south and the western part.

xxxiii 1 (Moreover) God the Lord gave us two angels

2 to guard us. The hour came when the angels had ascended to worship in the sight of God; forthwith the adversary [the devil] found an opportunity while the angels were absent and the devil led your mother astray to eat of the

3 unlawful and forbidden tree. And she did eat and gave to me.

xxxiv 1 And immediately, the Lord God was wrath with us, and the Lord said to me: 'In that thou hast left behind my commandment and hast not kept my word, which I confirmed to thee; behold, I will bring upon thy body, seventy blows; with divers griefs, shalt thou be tormented, beginning at thy head and thine eyes and thine ears down to thy nails on thy toes, and in every

2 separate limb. These hath God appointed for chastisement. All these things hath the Lord sent to me and to all our race.'

xxxv 1 Thus spake Adam to his sons, and he was seized with violent pains, and he cried out with a loud voice, 'What shall I do? I am in distress. So cruel are the pains with which I am beset.' And when Eve had seen him weeping, she also began to weep herself, and said: 'O Lord my God, hand over to me his pain, for it is I who sinned.'

3 And Eve said to Adam: 'My lord, give me a part of thy pains, for this hath come to thee from fault of mine.'

xxxvi 1 And Adam said to Eve: 'Rise up and go with my son Seth to the neighbourhood of paradise, and put dust on your heads and throw yourselves on the ground and lament in the sight of

2 God. Perchance He will have pity (upon you) and send His angel across to the tree of His mercy, whence floweth the oil of life, and will give you a drop of it, to anoint me with it, that I may have rest from these pains, by which I am being consumed.'

Then Seth and his mother went off towards the gates of paradise. And while they were walking, lo! suddenly there came a beast

2 [a serpent] and attacked and bit Seth. And as soon as Eve saw it, she wept and said: 'Alas, wretched woman that I am. I am accursed since I have not kept the commandment of God.'

3 And Eve said to the serpent in a loud voice: 'Accursed beast! how (is it that) thou hast not feared to let thyself loose against the image of God, but hast dared to fight with it?'

xxxviii 1 The beast answered in the language of men: 'Is it not against you, Eve, that our malice (is directed)? Are not ye the objects of our rage?

2 Tell me, Eve, how was thy mouth opened to eat of the fruit? But now if I shall begin to reprove thee thou canst not bear it.'

xxxix 1 Then said Seth to the beast: 'God the Lord revile thee. Be silent, be dumb, shut thy mouth, accursed enemy of Truth, confounder and destroyer. Avaunt from the image of God till the day when the Lord God shall order thee to be brought to the ordeal.' And the beast said to Seth: 'See, I leave the presence of the image of God, as thou hast said.' Forthwith he left Seth, wounded by his teeth.

xl 1 But Seth and his mother walked to the regions of paradise for the oil of mercy to anoint the sick Adam: and they arrived at the gates of paradise, (and) they took dust from the earth and placed it on their heads, and bowed themselves with their faces to the earth and began to lament and

2 make loud moaning, imploring the Lord God to pity Adam in his pains and to send His angel to give them the oil from the 'tree of His mercy'.

xli 1 But when they had been praying and imploring for many hours, behold, the angel Michael ap-

2 peared to them and said: 'I have been sent to you from the Lord -I am set by God over the

3 bodies of men- I tell thee, Seth, (thou) man of God, weep not nor pray and entreat on account of the oil of the tree of mercy to anoint thy father Adam for the pains of his body.

xlii 1 'For I tell thee that in no wise wilt thou be able to receive thereof save in the last days.'

2 [When five thousand five hundred years have been fulfilled, then will come upon earth the most beloved king Christ, the son of God, to revive the body of Adam and with him to revive

3 the bodies of the dead. He Himself, the Son of God, when He comes will be baptized in the river of Jordan, and when He hath come out of the water of Jordan, then He will anoint from the

4 oil of mercy all that believe in Him. And the oil of mercy shall be for generation to generation for those who are ready to be born again of

5 water and the Holy Spirit to life eternal. Then the most beloved Son of God, Christ, descending on earth shall lead thy father Adam to Paradise to the tree of mercy.]

xliii 1 'But do thou, Seth, go to thy father Adam, since the time of his life is fulfilled. Six days hence, his soul shall go off his body and when it shall have gone out, thou shalt see great marvels in the heaven and in the earth and the

2 luminaries of heaven. With these words, straightway Michael departed from Seth.

3 And Eve and Seth returned bearing with them herbs of fragrance, i.e. nard and crocus and calamus and cinnamon.

xliv 1 And when Seth and his mother had reached Adam, they told him, how the beast [the serpent]

2 bit Seth. And Adam said to Eve: 'What hast thou done? A great plague hast thou brought upon us, transgression and sin for all our generations: and this which thou hast done, tell thy

3 children after my death, [for those who arise from us shall toil and fail but they shall be

4 wanting and curse us (and) say, All evils have our parents brought upon us, who were at the

5 beginning].' When Eve heard these words, she began to weep and moan.

xlv 1 And just as Michael the archangel had fore-

2 told, after six days came Adam's death. When Adam perceived that the hour of his death was at hand, he said to all his sons: 'Behold, I am nine hundred and thirty years old, and if I die,

3 bury me towards the sunrising in the field of yonder dwelling.' And it came to pass that when he had finished all his discourse, he gave up the ghost. (Then) was the sun darkened and the moon

xlvi 1 and the stars for seven days, and Seth in his mourning embraced from above the body of his father, and Eve was looking on the ground with hands folded over her head, and all her children wept most bitterly. And behold, there appeared

2 Michael the angel and stood at the head of Adam and said to Seth: 'Rise up from the body of thy

3 father and come to me and see what is the doom of the Lord God concerning him. His creature is he, and God hath pitied him.'

And all angels blew their trumpets, and cried:

xlvii 1 'Blessed art thou, O Lord, for thou hast had pity on Thy creature.'

xlviii 1 Then Seth saw the hand of God stretched out holding Adam and he handed him over to

2 Michael, saying: 'Let him be in thy charge till the day of Judgement in punishment, till the last years when I will convert his sorrow into joy.

3 Then shall he sit on the throne of him who hath been his supplanter.'

4 And the Lord said again to the angels Michael and Uriel: 'Bring me three linen clothes of byssus and spread them out over Adam and other linen clothes over Abel his son and bury Adam and Abel his son.'

5 And all the 'powers' of angels marched before Adam, and the sleep of the dead was

6 consecrated. And the angels Michael and Uriel buried Adam and Abel in the parts of Paradise, before the eyes of Seth and his mother

7 [and no one else], and Michael and Uriel said: 'Just as ye have seen, in like manner, bury your dead.'

xlix 1 Six days after, Adam died; and Eve perceived that she would die, (so) she assembled all her sons

2 and daughters, Seth with thirty brothers and thirty sisters, and Eve said to all, 'Hear me, my children, and I will tell you what the archangel Michael said to us when I and your father transgressed the command of God

3 On account of your transgression, Our Lord will bring upon your race the anger of his judgement, first by water, the second time by fire; by these two, will the Lord judge the whole human race

l 1 But hearken unto me, my children. Make ye then tables of stone and others of clay, and write

2 on them, all my life and your father's (all) that ye have heard and seen from us. If by water the Lord judge our race, the tables of clay will be dissolved and the tables of stone will remain; but if by fire, the tables of stone will be broken up and the tables of clay will be baked (hard).'

3 When Eve had said all this to her children, she spread out her hands to heaven in prayer, and bent her knees to the earth, and while she worshipped the Lord and gave him thanks, she gave up the ghost. Thereafter, all her children buried her with loud lamentation.

li 1 When they had been mourning four days, (then) Michael the archangel appeared and said

2 to Seth: 'Man of God, mourn not for thy dead more than six days, for on the seventh day is the sign of the resurrection and the rest of the age to come; on the seventh day the Lord rested from all His works.'

3 Thereupon Seth made the tables.

Scanned and Edited by
Joshua Williams
Northwest Nazarene College

9
Here, it is in the mostly accurate translation

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Isaiah 49
Isaiah 48Isaiah 50

Isaiah 49King James Version (KJV)

49 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.

10 They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

11 And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.

12 Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim.

13 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the Lord hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

14 But Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.

15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.

17 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee.

18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the Lord, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth.

19 For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away.

20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.

21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been?

22 Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.

23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

24 Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, or the lawful captive delivered?

25 But thus saith the Lord, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered: for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children.

26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

King James Version (KJV)
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10
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Meaning of this verse
« on: July 20, 2016, 07:40:40 pm »
And my advice will not benefit you - although I wished to advise you - If Allah should intend to put you in error. He is your Lord, and to Him you will be returned." why would Allah put people in error

13
Etymology - "Mafia"
Like the varied influences foreigners established in Sicily, there are many different influences in the creation of the word 'mafia'. Over time its meaning has been changed by Sicilians and Sicily's conquerors.

The word 'Mafia' was first mentioned in literature was published in a list of heretics in 1668. It followed the name of a witch, and meant 'boldness', 'ambition', and 'arrogance'. None of these qualities were considered proper for a woman, and thus the word 'mafia' took on its first negative connotation. (Hess)

Many people also believe that Arabic affected the word 'mafia' during the period of Arab control of Sicily, after the fall of the Roman Empire in 846 AD. 'Mahias' is an Arab word meaning 'bold man', and this is believed to be incorporated into the modern term mafia, which also implies the bold and aggressive nature of its constituents. (Hess)

Characteristics of the mafia were influenced by many other groups who conquered Sicily (Please see History for more information), but the word remained more or less unaltered from the 1668 document, until 1861, and the Unification of Italy. Garibaldi, an important pro-Italian general, set off to Sicily to unify it with the mainland. When the Sacaren Tribe of Palermo heard of the impending invasion they set off to a set of caves in the Marsala region of Sicily. This set of caves was known as the 'mafie', and the Sacaren used the caves to hide from Garibaldi and his troops. Garibaldi proceeded to name the people hiding in the caves 'mafiosi'. (Hess)

By 1862, only a year after Garibaldi coined the term 'mafiosi', a play entitled 'I Mafiosi della Vicaria' emerged as very popular in Sicily, as well as on mainland Italy. The play centered on a group of men who were imprisoned, and their interactions with each other while in jail. The men portrayed are not delinquent criminals, but rather they are men who plan crimes, and use their powerful prowess to influence the actions of others. This type of organized crime was named, by the play, 'Mafia'. Due to the play's popularity, this concept of organized crime proliferated across Italy, and soon Europe. (Hess)

In 1865 the police were using the term 'mafia', especially the phrase 'delitto de Mafia' to describe a man who plans crimes and pays others to carry them out. Foreign reporters began to pick up on this, and reported on the 'mafia' or secret societies in Sicily and Italy. (Hess)

Knowledge of the mafia grew in America in the early 20th century when immigration from Italy was at its highest ever. Members of the Mafia came to America and continued their fear and power based crime business. Only then did reports of Mafia crime begin to be published in America, and the concept of the mafia became significantly better known. With the release of The Godfather in 1972, the term 'mafia' became very widespread in secular life across the world, and especially in America. A new fascination had begun, but its history goes back nearly 2200 years.

 

14

Roman Christendom
Honour all men. Love the brethren. Fear God. Honour Caesar, the Emperor. (1 Pet 2:17)
Sunday, 16 September 2007
The Muslim Sack of Rome and St Peter's in 846 AD

Rome was sacked by Muslims in 846 AD during the great conquests of Islam after the time of Mohammed.

During the 8th and 9th centuries, the Muslim Arabs (then called Saracens in Europe) were rapaciously invading Christendom through Southern Italy which they succeeded in conquering by fire, murder, rapine and the sword. Sailing from newly acquired bases in North Africa which they had just stolen from the Christians of the Eastern Roman Empire, the had conquered Sicily and were now bent upon seizing the rest of the peninsula.

They had earlier been rebuffed in France in 732 by King Charles Martel, the grandfather of Charlemagne, but they had got as far as Tours in Nothern France. King Charles was the first to halt their seemingly inexorable advance. Thereafter they retired to Spain and parts of Southern France and settled. They retained their hold on what had once been Catholic Visigothic Spain for the next 800 years! They were not finally ejected from Christian Spain until 1491 by Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand.

Under Pope Paschal I (817-824), the relics of the holy martyrs were concealed in the walls of the city of Rome. When Rome was sacked, Paschal's careful precautions did not prevent the wholesale spoliation and robbery of Basilica of Saint Peter itself, nor, indeed, of San Paolo fuori le Mura (St Paul's outside the Walls), because they both lay outside the walls of the city of Rome.

Later, a second wall was constructed on the other side of the Tiber from the main city area. It was constructed by order of Pope Leo IV and so this enclosure was called the Leonine City.

The Islamic conquest and domination of Sicily, as well as parts of southern Italy began in the 7th century after the foundation of Islam and the attempt by the Muslim leaders to conquer the world.

By Koranic tradition, Islam makes its attempts to re-conquer the world in the 7th or 8th decade of every century and does not stop until it is halted by force. When stopped it generally lies low until the 7th or 8th decade of the next century when it then makes another attempt at world domination.

How, then, can it call itself a religion of peace? It does so because it means by peace the eventual peace that will, it says, be the consequence of the conquest of the world for Islam. In the meantime, however, it is war.




Islam first attacked Sicily (then part of the Eastern Roman Empire) in 652 AD when Syrian Arabs under Mu’auia ibn-Hodeig invaded.

The Eastern Roman Imperial Exarch of Ravenna, Olympius, then took ship to oust the invaders but the invading Arabs managed to escape back to Syria with a huge treasure trove of pillaged riches.

Next, in 669, the invading Muslim Arabs came in 200 ships from Alexandria (once the greatest Christian city in the Middle East) and attacked Syracuse, once again escaping with a mountain of rich booty stripped from the churches, palaces and homes of the Christian people.

The invading Muslims, when they first attacked Alexandria, coming across the library of the University of Alexandria which was one of the greatest in the world, took no heed of the great wealth of learning contained therein, including priceless collections of ancient Greek, Roman and Hebrew texts, and burnt the whole library.

Thus it was that so many ancient Greek and Roman texts were lost to the world forever. And yet Western scholars continue to peddle the lie that Islam safely preserved the Greek and Roman texts. It is true that some were later preserved but a massive corpus was permanently destroyed by the burning of the Alexandrian library.

After the Umayyad conquest of Africa (completed by about 700), Muslim fleets repeatedly attacked the coast of Sicily in 703, 728, 729, 730, 731, 733 and 734, looting, sacking and pillaging at every turn.

The Christians of Roman Christendom were taken completely by surprise by these attacks since they had no contest with Islam at that time and had done nothing to merit such unwarranted and merciless attacks by the Muslim raiders.

An expeditionary force was launched in 740 with the aim of conquering Christendom for Islam. The Muslim princes Habib and his son, Abdurrahman, set out to conquer the whole Italian peninsula, having discovered the Christians unprepared for invasion, and they would probably have succeeded in doing so but for a revolt in Tunisia by the Berbers which they had to return and deal with.

A treaty was signed between the Eastern Empire and Ibrahim I ibn al-Aghlab, Emir of Ifriqiya in 805 but did not prevent attacks from continuing elsewhere in Italy. Ibrahim's son, Abdallah I, sent an invasion force to conquer Sicily in 812 and he, despite some reverses, managed to conquer Lampedusa.

Thereafter the conquest of Sicily by Al-Aghlab Abu Ibrahim proceeded with rapidity.

He was succeeded by Abbas ibn-Fadhl, a savage warrior who ravaged lands still under the control of the Eastern Roman Empire capturing Castrogiovanni in 859. All the Christian survivors from that fortress were executed, and women and children were sold as slaves in Palermo. The Eastern Roman Emperor tried to aid the stricken Christians but was defeated by Abbas. Further defeats followed successively for the Eastern Romans.

Syracuse finally fell in 877 AD to Jafar ibn-Muhammad who then went on to attack Greece and Malta and the death of the Eastern Roman Emperor, Basil I, in 886, was followed by attacks on Calabria and a further defeat for the imperial army. Reggio di Calabria fell in 901 and Taromina, the last Byzantine stronghold in Sicily fell in 902.

The whole of Southern Italy was now in Muslim hands and Islam was poised to invade the rest of Christendom.

...
Tribunus at 19:43

13 comments:

Anonymous17 September 2007 at 14:19
I haven't read about the this in some time, but I believe it was at this time that the reliquary with St. Peter's remains was moved to the place where it was eventually found in 1944. There's a volume by Fr. Kirschenbaum on the excavations under St. Peter's during WWII with all the details.

Janice

Reply

Benfan18 September 2007 at 00:40
Hmmm you're too good. Would you not think of writing a book. You have it all, knowledge, language, timing. History doesn't usually grip me but this is great.
My son is bringing home pseudo history books from school. They are for children and tell history as a story. The history element is anti-Catholic and the stories contain awful levels of violence (children having ropes tied round necks and nearly strangled as they gasp for breath etc. my son is 8). My son attends a Catholic school, one of the best in the county. I speak to parents and they are just happy that the children are reading, they don't seem to worry about the content in the same way as they would tv or film. What I would give for exciting reads that are proper at the same time. There is a need out there and this ex-actor Terry Deary is filling the void with bile. He is making a fortune from lies and violence and parents think the children are learning real history in a fun and exciting way. So how would a History of Roman Christendom series grab you??

Reply

Tribunus18 September 2007 at 08:38
Thank you both! Yes, if I can et time I shall try and write a book or two. It's finding the time.

Reply

WhiteStoneNameSeeker18 September 2007 at 12:12
Thank you. I'm reading these with my children as part of their home ed. It's just right as bite size history for them.

Reply

Anonymous21 September 2007 at 08:52
its good to see somebody telling the truth in the realm of lies.
awhitecockade.

Reply

Tribunus21 September 2007 at 14:44
Thank you!

Reply

Salah ud din20 December 2013 at 21:05
Well i have never found anything on that so called "Koranic tradition". Rape,Murder & Pillage you said? If Muslims would have done that, They'd still be in Spain but instead they let the snakes grow right under their noses, Because they couldn't murder people. We all know conduct of Muslim Conquerer as compared to a Christian one once we take a look at Catholic Conquest of Jeruselem in Crusades and then Muslim Re-Conquest afterwards. Had Ottomon Empire wiped out all the Christians in Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia etc World's Map would have been different right? But instead the christians were allowed to exist and prosper while Muslims were Wiped out from Their former Realms. Difference?

Reply
Replies

nomdeplume11 August 2015 at 22:45
Errr your prophet Mohammad raped, pillaged and killed. Where do you get off acting pious when the man you revere deemed it permissible to spread Islam. What the right hand possesses and all that. What was the name of that peaceful Jewish town that once saved Mo's life so he responded by bringing back his cult followers and murdering the men, keeping the leaders wife for his own and dividing up the rest of the women as war booty?

Reply

Tribunus25 December 2013 at 12:55
Thanks, Saladin.

You need to get out of your fantasy ghetto.

Everywhere that Muslim conquerors went they burned, pillaged, murdered, destroyed and enslaved.

Even now Muslims are re-introducing slavery into Africa.

Your view of history is devoid of reality and fact.

It is a matter of simple historical fact that Muslim corsairs roamed the Mediterranean as pirates, and made regular assaults on the coast of Europe to murder and enslave.

Sultan Mehmet II send a "demand" to the Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I demanding that he present himself outside his palace so that Mehmet's army could take him and cut off his head.

So - however much you may not like it - that is what Muslims did.

And Muslim terrorists are still doing it today.

But rape, murder and pillage do not pay. Eventually the marauding Muslims were thrown out of Spain, after 800 years of occupation.

When you say "we all know" you mean you "like to fantasise".

The reality is that the Muslim invasion of the Middle East, and the subsequent re-conquest, were both every bit as bloody massacres as were all Muslim invasions.

If, as you ridiculously assert, Christians had wiped out all the Muslims then there would have been none to revolt and re-conquer.

Christians, far from being allowed to "prosper" were at best second class citizens in their own country or else simply slaughtered or enslaved.

There were Muslims who were peaceful (as there are today), and there were Christians who were not (as also today), but to pretend that no Muslims were murderers, and all Christians were, is to dwell in a total fantasy of fanaticism.

Wake up and face the reality - you are living in fanatical fantasy land.

Perhaps you've never heard of Al Qaeda?

Reply

Rob Porter11 February 2014 at 02:59
Unfortunately, Saladin, like all Muslim supremacists is a liar and thus in keeping with the Muslim principle of 'taqiyya', namely deceit. Their's is mostly a useless history of murder, mahem and destruction - not preservation - of history. Hence their destruction of libraries in the old pre-Arab Persia, Alexandria and elsewhere. Today they are today obsessed with the Crusades, yet the fact is that it was Muslim aggression and barbarism for 460 years that led to the Crusades. Butchery of 3,000 Christians by the Seljuk Turks outside Jerusalem in 1077 is conveniently forgotten, but Richard the Lionheart's butchery of 2,700 Muslim outside Acre is 1191 - in retaliation for Muslim execution of Crusaders who surrendered to Saladin and Saladin's refusal to pay ransome, is treated as if the crime of all time. It is always the same old infantile, stupid, one-sided rubbish from Islam.

Reply

Ray Land27 June 2015 at 16:14
Just finished a tour of St. Peter's Basilica where our highly educated (Archeology) tour guide informed us about the Muslim pillagers in the 9th century. While I realize that Catholics pillaged also, the guide unconsciously highlighted two significant differences between the religions. The first occurred during our tour of the Papal gardens where she quoted Raphael "Intellect is divine" as the inspiration for his many religious works of art. The second at St. Peter's Basilica where she pointed out that Pope Francis just married a Muslim and a Catholic. This inclusiveness and encouragement in the pursuit of knowledge contrasted with Islam's exclusiveness and their punishment of those that pursue knowledge. What concerns me most is not that the Muslims will prevail (their exclusiveness and backwardness are too large a hurdle) but that a more technologically advanced nation will exterminate them all. Remember their enemies now include powerful agnostic states like China who will have little patience with their terroristic activities. Watch how they handle their minority Muslim population to get a view on their methods. Exploiting Genetic weaknesses is not beyond their capabilities.

Reply

TheSeljuk21 February 2016 at 10:41
Europe is weak. The invasion will be renewed. You are warned.

Reply

Tribunus22 February 2016 at 18:04
Come on down, Seljuk....you'll find you can't defeat God....or his holy Catholic religion. Our own clergy have been doing a fine job of trying to destroy it for years and even they couldn't do it! So what makes you think you can do any better? Let's sit down and have some Turkish coffee instead...

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Tribunus
Western culture is, above all else, Roman - and Christian Roman at that. This is so because it has been shaped and defined by Roman Catholicism, ruled by a Roman Emperor, guided by a Roman Pontiff and blessed by Roman rites in a Roman language. Even its enemies have been forced to recognise this. Our laws, our science, our culture, our art, our music, our literature, our scholarship, our primary institutions all derive from this Roman and Christian heritage. The oldest rite of worship in the Christian Church is the classical, Roman rite, deriving, as it does, from the ancient Jewish Temple worship, perfected under Roman rule. It is theologically unsurpassed. It is a timeless love song to the Creator of all things. In a curious "trahison des clercs", many today, even amongst the clergy, have forgotten this and so have become disconnected from their spiritual and cultural roots. It is perhaps time to recall and re-capture our traditions and to re-connect with them in a modern setting.
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