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Messages - Egyptian

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1
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 29, 2014, 05:07:53 pm »
So you think that Allah doesn't use agents in doing his work?

I never said so ...   and I don't need  you to point to many cases in which Allah used agents to accomplish things , I just need you to show me the case   when ALLAH created a being and let this being create everything things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.He is before all things, and in him all things hold together....

mclinkin94 ,we are not discussing God Can or Can't , but Did or Didn't ....

quran 6:21 Who doth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie against Allah or denieth His revelations? Lo! the wrongdoers will not be successful.


Quran 13:11 For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah .So who is protecting you? Angels or Allah?

Nice try mclinkin , but the agents of protection are mentioned here in the verse, unlike,who is the agent For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities ?

If you say there is ,then you invent a lie against Allah ... and got yourself directly into the high way of blasphemy (with your dear fellow muslims of jehovah's witnesses !).....


Like i said, I don't see any problem with unitarians fitting that criteria.

I said any human on earth (whether pagan,jew,christian,unitarian etc...) who won't adapt Islam as conveyed by the prophet peace be upon him , can't and won't be a muslim ....

the readers who would judge which position is solid ...

2
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 28, 2014, 11:09:09 pm »

Shirk is when you put partners with Allah. If unitarians do that, then they won't be saved.

superficial definition ,shirk include ascribing any quality any divine work,power to a creature(even if it is known to be a creature)..
that include the catholic believe in Mary ,the unitarian believe in Jesus as the creator of everything and everything is created for him !.

don't tell me that their belief in Jesus as created by God would save them from blasphemy.....
Catholics know that Mary is mere human ,yet the Quran blasphemized them ...  the same way with unitarians ...

The only thing that is wrong is when they said that Allah used Jesus to create the world. 

how wrong? I say till blasphemy ...Allah didn't create everything seen and unseen by any agent ..
the catholics commit the same mistake while dealing with Mary ...
they think just cause they think she is human...no problem of the things they believe and do with her....


Let's give an example: Let's say Allah created the universe by instructing an Angel to start off the big bang.

we are not into the game of guessing , we are into the reality ...  no agent but Allah who created everything saying otherwise is blasphemy....

ascribing a power that is exclusive to Allah is shirk ... consult a basic tawheed book ,to find out the simplicity of your error.


Quote
They do. The Quran makes it clear that some of them do (or did) in 2:62.

If they Do ,then they necessarily converted to Islam, if they DID then they necessarily weren't christians "trinitarians or unitarians".... could be some Jews "who were strictly monotheists"....

Quote
why would Allah say that the jews/Christians that believe in God, the last day and live righteous lives would be saved????


the answer is simple ,either you render the verse as a present and future ,then the meaning any of them who would believe in God, the last day and live righteous lives (aka being a convert to Islam), or render it as a past then the meaning ,any of them who believed in God, the last day and lived  righteous lives (aka those who believed in Moses and the applied the true torah ,and those who applied the true injeel) .... they ofcourse are neither the trinitarians nor the unitarians ... as the Quran clearly blasphemized their theology whether before or after ISlam.

Quote
.Not necessarily. Think of it like your boss at the company gave you a new law--a new rule...if you continue to obey the old law--you are going against your boss. 

the old law was corrupted , that is why the boss sent the prophet..

3
Happy Eid to you and all muslims ....

4
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 28, 2014, 12:11:21 pm »
Now despite the unitarian belief that jesus had some part of creation (which is wrong)


wrong ?!! no it is SHIRK and gets anyone who believes so anytime anywhere outside the folds of islam completely...

Do you think anyone who believes that a human being (jesus) created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

still be a muslim? !!    Just be factual mclinkin94....

and NO  neither unitarians nor Trinitarians believe that Allah aka (the father) is the one who created ....  just go study well the theology of both the trinitarians and the unitarian.


I said they:

Believe in God
Believe in the last day
Live righteous lives.


and I said they DON'T, supported that from both the Quran and the same article you quoted.



Quran 9:29 is simply commanding Muhammad that he is to inform to the people of the scripture the religion of the truth, and IF they deny and do not uphold the religion of Islam, you are to fight them. ONCE they deny Allah's verses, they no longer fit the criteria given in Quran 2:62 and they become disbelievers.



If the people of the scripture deny and do not uphold the religion of Islam they no longer fit the criteria given in Quran 2:62 and they become disbelievers. 


in other words anyone anywhere who won't uphold the religion of Islam (whether trinitarian,unitarian) as conveyed by the prophet Mohamed peace be upon him is automatically disbeliever  ... no sane person would understand the verse to be saying they were believers before the  warning of  the prophet and became disbelievers afterwards, they simple were desbelievers before the mission of Islam and continued  to be disbelievers ....
if they were believers there were no sense at all to be warned,fought etc....


I provided clear cut proofs (from both the quran and the bible) that all the people of the book  all included in the verse 9:29 as disbelievers... you provided nothing to sustain your position ..anyway let our readers judge...


one final word,  the words of Abduraheem Greene has nothing to do with the point, the destiney of those christians before or after Islam has nothing to do with whether their theologies can be labled as ISLAM.


5
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 26, 2014, 12:56:57 pm »

the only new lines you provided in the last post is the article about Jehova witnesses, otherwise you reset your lines that I addressed and replyed to....

now regarding  the article you quoted ,let's see why Jehova witnesses ,can't be labled "muslims",in light of what the Quran defines muslims:

The article says:

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is God's only direct creation, that everything else was created by means of Christ, and that the initial unassisted act of creation uniquely identifies Jesus as God's "only-begotten Son".


why they say so?

because both Trinitarians and unitarians believe that JESUS is the creator of the universe !, why they say so? because the new testament clearly say so. eg;

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.For by him (Jesus) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.


surely a muslim doesn't need to know Allah is the creator of the universe ,or may you need Quranic clue?

Holy Quran 40:62 Such is Allah, your Lord, the Creator of all things, there is no god but He: Then how ye are deluded away from the Truth!

7:191 Do they indeed ascribe to Him as partners things that can create nothing, but are themselves created?

So in terms of montheism ,Jehova witnesses, clearly,and according to the Quran,are  mushrik ascribing one of the the basic divine attributes to a human.

In terms of believing in the day of judgment :

Jehovah's Witnesses believe death is a state of non-existence with no consciousness. There is no Hell of fiery torment.

Watch Tower Society publications teach that humanity is in a sinful state, from which release is only possible by means of Jesus' shed blood as a ransom.

In terms of the lawful and unlawful ,they drink alcohol and eat pork ...

In other words the noble verse 9:29 fits perfectly on them :
believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth.


If after all such quranic input still you insist that they are muslims... then not only you could be labled as Sunna denier..but also not a true Quranist....



6
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 21, 2014, 10:47:05 am »
the Muslims who identify as such who put another source of law besides the Quran are disbelieving in Allah's direct words and are no longer Muslims.

Thats incredible indeed.... on one hand you wrongly turns the nonmuslims into muslims ,and the muslims into non muslims ...  what a twist !!!

plz remember don't get us into small cult Quranists vs Sunna discussion ... that is not our topic...



Christians who have not heard of Islam are Muslims, likewise the ignorant Christians who have not heard of Islam are also Muslim (submitters), once they read the Quran and disbelieve, they become non-Muslims.

I repaet again ,christians who never heard of Islam are NOT muslims ([read again my post of the qualifications to be a muslim), but whether destined to hell or not , God will judge them with his justice and mercy....



How about the Christians before Muhammad? you saying they are destined to hell?

 If they held the monotheism of the old testament ,kept the law.... then not only they can be called (muslims) but also saved.  if they took Jesus as God , then they no longer be called muslims and their destiney to hell.

If so, that too would contradict Quran 2:62.


Not at all ...they are not among those mentioned in the verse ...


The best meaning is to say that Unitarians who have not heard Allah's verses in the Quran are Muslims. 

Again unitarians are not muslims even if not heard the Quran.....why? because they don't believe in Allah and the day of judgment ,they don't held the law of lawful and unlawful.


I also have no problem labeling those who do not know anything about Islam (heard Allah's verses) but believe in God, the last day and live a righteous life as Muslims.   

those folk ,simply don't exist .



Abduraheem Green says that:
The Jews and Christians who follow their religion BEFORE the information game to them of Islam will be saved.

I have no problem with that only the christian who took Jesus as God in spite of their knowledge of the monotheism of the old testament shouldn't be saved...



7
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 06, 2014, 04:55:37 pm »



Islam is not limited only to the Quran and Muhammad.
Quote


Islam WAS not limited only to the Quran and Muhammad,before the mission of Mohamed peace be upon him. every prophet was a muslim "submitter to God's will", and his people were muslims as well, with two conditions:

1- being stuck to the original original message the prophet conveyed.
2- following any new message of a succesor prophet.



That means the unitarian Christians are submitters
Quote



You wish them to be so , but the fact "submission to God will" is nothing but being fully Muslim , even those who believe in Jesus as God claim themselves to be sub,itters to God's will...  but just saying so doesn't necessarily means so....  nothing cheaper than words....

Unitarians are NOT muslims ,and destined to hell if not believing in Muhamed peace be upon him as the last messeneger of God , accepting the Quranic laws ,and put an end to their false belief of the nature and rule of Jesus and their concept of the day of judgment.....


Yes again Unitarians are NOT muslims (submitters to God) ,why?


1- Claiming that Unitarians or any others who don't believe in Mohamed as the last prophet of God, makes the act of Allah when he sent Mohamed peace be upon him with Islam to be without meaning....   If it is fine with Unitarians and what they do is Islam ,why would Allah send Mohamed with new message ,new laws, attacking their concept of Jesus ,their concept of the day of judgment?!!! 

2- As you are a Sunna denier, let's quote the Quranic clues ...

Who are those who are NOT Muslims "submitters to God" ...


1- Jews ,Christians and Mushrek ..

Qur’an 3:67: Abraham in truth was not a Jew, neither a Christian; but he was a Muslim and one pure of faith; he was no associator of others with God.

 

what is wrong with Jews and christians ,not being labled as Muslims ?


Holy Quran  9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

Unitarians can never be excluded from the verse .... 

First: What does it mean when Allah says that Jews and christians don't believe in Allah and the last day?

surely it doesn't mean that Jews and christians are atheists who doesn't believe that this world was created by God, neither it means that they don't believe that there is a day of judgment and life after death.....

the prophet already knew that about them....  so the means has to be, that they don't believe in Allah and the day of judgment as truly depicted in the Quran ..... 

in other words any belief of God or the day of judgment contradicts  the Quran is blasphemy and those who adhere to such beliefs can never be called "submitters to Allah aka muslims"....


also ,any human who forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, can never be "submitter to Allah aka muslim "

Unitarians don't believe in Allah and the day of judgment "as the Quran says it has to be", neither they forbid which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger ...


Unitarians believe in many blasphemuous concept regarding God and the day of judgment ...
they for example believe that at the day of judgment:

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth.


They belief that All things created by/through Jesus (Colossians 1:16-17)--"For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him. 17And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."

that is just a sample of the blasphemeous concepts they held....

I can collect a huge list of the beliefs they held that is against Islam ,and exclude them wholly from being "submitters to God aka Muslims"....


[/size]

8
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: June 29, 2014, 11:00:12 am »
Quran 2:62 makes it clear that those who believe in Islam, those who believe in Christianity and those who are Jewish and ANYONE who believes in God and the last day and leads a righteous life will not grieve!  The Quran then makes exceptions to that rule throughout (like when it speaks of those who follow the trinity).   


Correction : The Quranic rule and stand point is the following verse:

Holy Quran 3:85 Anyone who desires something other than Islam as a religion will never have it accepted from him, while in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.


the exception : Are those who never heard of Islam after the prophet's mission... eg; the red indians etc....
nowadays few are those who never heard of Islam and many though heard of it,they either had superficial insufficient message or disorted one...
for all those I hope they are forgiven and given justice.....the whole rest without any reasonable doubt destined to hell,according to the Quran....


So who is Quran 2:62 speaking of?
-The previous Christians and Jews (before Islam)
-The ignorant Christians and Jews who have not heard Allah's verses in the Quran


I even disagree partly with that......    The christians before Islam can't be easily included into the noble verse ...   they believed is Jesus as God,and they believed in the last day as bowing in their knees to Jesus the God creator...



The Christians and Jews who heard the Quran and deny it are disbelievers!


If they heard it and believed? they will convert to Islam,withoout doubt.... and God fulfills his promise for them in verse 2:62 .... they are now and only now believe in God as it must be and believe in the day of judgment as it must be and do righteousness as it must be .




Quran 2:62 by the way, makes it clear that you must not only believe in God and the last day--you must also lead a righteous life. The Jews and Christians who hear Allah's verses in the Quran and deny them are not living a righteous life.
[/quote]


the fact is that all those Jews and christians who ever hear Allah's verses in the Quran would deny them (unless some of them convert)...,those are actually the majority of jews and christians,and according to you ,by doing so, they are not living a righteous life. in other words most jews and christians can't be included in the verse 2:62 ...   and are destined to hell ...

again the rule crystal clear
Holy Quran 3:85 Anyone who desires something other than Islam as a religion will never have it accepted from him, while in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.


again the only exception :ignorance of the message,or a distorted message.



Quote from: Black Muslim
If there are clear texts from Quran or Sunnah saying he will return , there is no meanining in anyone - no matter who he or she is - rejecting it .
 

If there are clear texts from Quran or Sunnah saying he will return,then why some Sunni orthodox salafi scholars eg; the Titan Salafi scholar Muhammad Rashid Rida rejected,or doubted it?

After I balanced the arguments for and against the notion of the second coming ,studying throughly the origin of the creed itself in the jewish and christians sources ,checking it in the islamic sources ,I became a second coming skeptic ....

the matter needs more than a post (actually needs a whole thread)... but can be summarized:


1- there is no clear proof of a second coming of jesus or anyone else in the Quran.

2- the most authentic proof text of the notion (in Albukhari) , is narrated by "Abu Hurrairah" , and for some reasons his narratives regarding the beliefs are to be highly doubted "the problem of Kaab Alahbar -Abu Hurrairah link).....

3- The origin of the creed itself from the christian sources shows how it is faked creed, to reason how Jesus couldn't fulfill the messianic prophecies....

several other reasons to be added but that needs a full thread dedicated....

by the way I'm neither Quranist, nor Qadiany ...I'm orthodox Sunni .....   so I don't have any agenda to deny such notion....

peace




9
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: June 25, 2014, 01:52:31 pm »
As'salamu Alaykum,

I have some Quranist friends, They are making many rubbish claims such as Jesus will not return,

Alaikomalsalam all Brothers ...

1- The belief of the second coming of Jesus was rejected ,doubted not only by the Quranists ,but by some other muslim scholars among them Salafis scholars and grand Imams of Alazhar university.
so it is inaccurate to claim that only the Quranists deny it.


2- Though the Quranists have gone to the extreme with rejecting the traditions , some of their arguments should be taken into consideration.


3- I disagree that the Quran teaches that only those who believe the Jesus is God or trinity are destined to hell, even unitrarians are destined to hell if not accepting Islam ......

"PLZ check my study on the trinity to find out how the teachings of the unitarians goes totally against the teachings of Islam"

the Quran leave no doubt, either you take islam totally with its pure monotheism,its laws ,its last prophet ,or to leave it.... there is no in between  ....


If anyone doubt that,just ask me to provide the  proof text...

10
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: As'salamu Alaikum!
« on: June 20, 2014, 12:50:47 pm »
What is happening in Iraq isn't  sunna rebelling against the shia authority ,it is just one scene from the never ending sectarian farce that plagued those Iraqi people from the old days ....  tolerance ,sharing authority,being humble has never been one of Iraqis'strong points,whether sunni or shia ,kurdi or Arab etc ......  the worst enemy of Iraqis is none but themselves ......

I will quote honest comment I read today in Aljazeera arabic news site by IRAQI guy :

بتواضع شديد افتخر بوطنيتي عراقي بلا تحيز بعروبتي بلا عنصرية وبديني بلا مذهب
وبأنسانيتي وجهدت في حياتي أن أكون أناأيضاً فخراً لكلها ونجحت في مسعاي بلا شك ..لا قولاً بل بالفعل الموثق والملموس لكل من يعرف هويتي
هذه المقدمة لأعطى نفسي الحق في القول ان مجمل العراقيين من كل لون نتصف بقدر ما من الصفات الدفاعية
(النفاق والكذب والجبن والطمع والفساد وازدواجية التصرف والأنانية والطغيان وتجاهل البديهي وحب البطولة والتظاهر والطيبة)

"Being very humble,I feel proud of my nationality as Iraqi without being biased to my race as Arab,without racism,and my religion without a sect,and being human and made the successful efforts to succeed in life, not only by words but by good deed...the previous introduction was to give myself the right to say that we most Iraqis who belong to every color and sect ,have the following qualities (hypocrisy,cheating,lying, cowardice, greed, corruption ,duplicity , selfishness and tyranny)...

those qualities to be applied to some lesser degree to other Arab countries as well(including Egypt as well) ..


it is not an authority needs reform ,but a society that needs reform..

A tree is known by its fruit....

كلّ إناء بما فيه ينضح
A vessel filters what it contains

11
Alaikom alsalam .Bro Muslim boy ,and thank you for your note....



What do you mean by "At least we muslim believe so"? You should either deny it whole (that the Mose like Prophet was Muhammad) or accept it whole

I meant by that ,while we Muslims accept the passage as a whole to be a reference to the prophet peace be upon him,still Christians and Jews deny it to be a reference to the prophet ....

peace





12
As-Salamu Alaikum Everyone,


:D

Brother Egyptian, According to you, Is there any was to convince a Christian that Trinity is False? :P

Salam Bro Muslimboy

...Your question is similar to when the theist asking the atheist ,what is his proofs that God doesn't exist ?!

the fact that ,the burden on the shoulder of those who alleges. it is the theist duty to prove that God does exist ,as the Trinitarians duty to prove trinity does exist ,it is their claim to begin with.

I have discussed before the problems if we resort to the bible to prove the trinity.

take care...

13
once again let me resume with the ridiculous imaginations of those who invented the messianic structure .... not only according to them ,once the messiah comes once the whole world having one religion,but also there will be a global peace and harmony....

They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation will not lift sword against nation and they will no longer study warfare. (Isaiah 2:4)

I would say not only such prophecy has never been fulfilled anytime ,but also will never be fulfilled ,why?

Holy Quran 2:216 Warfare is ordained for you, though you dislike it. You may dislike something although it is good for you, or like something although it is bad for you: God knows and you do not.’

....
not only such imaginary global peace will be among humans,according to such prophecies,but also amongst animals !


The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 11:6-9)


Bro Mohammed.Rashid comments,   "Here, the interpreters are not taking the verse literally still they are mis-interpreting it . If taken literally the whole life cycle will come to an end. If not, as per the interpreters when everybody goes veg then about protein required by human body which are necessary to prevent certain disease comes only from the animals flesh."


I won't accuse you of being the one who mis-interpret it (as you didn't even show us what the alternative meaning would be like),but just to tell you, there is no absolutely any justification to resort to the metaphorical dodge ... If God will ,he can make the whole world vegetarians ,with a word,isn't it ?...

he can even make the whole world one religion "as the writers of those so called prophecies wished" but he won't ,why?

Holy Quran (11:118) Had your Lord so willed, He would surely have made mankind one community. But as things stand, now they will not cease to differ among themselves and to follow erroneous ways.


 concluding thoughts to be addressed in next post ...


May God bless you all..

14


The awaited Messiah according to the old testament?

 He is simply the one who is supposed to generate the arrival of heaven on earth.

He is?

A king that will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18.

Mohamed (pbuh) is not descended from King David neither Jesus (pbuh).  so neither of them qualified to be such messiah.


supposing (wrongly) the Jesus of the new testament or whatever person claims that the messiah can't be from the seed of David ,is wholly without merit ,as when it comes to prophecy fulfillment what does matter ,is what the original prophecy says, not what you force it to say...


Once he comes?



He will provide the Jews and the whole world with every good thing imaginable and erase every bad thing imaginable too "a real paradise on earth".


2- The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness

Isaiah 51:11Those the LORD has rescued will return. They will enter Zion with singing; EVERLASTING JOY will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.


The mission of Mohamed or Jesus (pbuh)ended the Jews suffering offering them eternal joy?!!!

exactly the opposite ,their sufferings were doubled,with no EVERLASTING JOY,as the prophecy claims. 


3- There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease

Isaiah 25:8He will swallow up death for all time, And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces, And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth.



No comment !!!


3- The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance !

Zechariah 8:2323 This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’”


Had that been fulfilled?!!!!!!!!!  Imagine after the mission of Islam the people asking the Jews for spiritual guidance !!!!!



4- ONE CREED AND ONE RELIGION !!!

Isa, 66:23 ("And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord") .Psalm 86:9 ("All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name"), Isa. 11:9 ("...for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea")


Not only it is the impossible dream to make all people believe in one religion,but also it is against the quran teachings ...which clearly teaches that believe and disbelieve is remaining till day of resurrection...eg;

Holy Quran 5:14 And with those who say: "Lo! we are Christians," We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished. Therefor We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork.


Holy Quran 5:64The Jews say: "Allah's Hand is tied up ." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for what they uttered. Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. He spends (of His Bounty) as He wills. Verily, the Revelation that has come to you from Allah increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief. We have put enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war, Allah extinguished it; and they (ever) strive to make mischief on earth. And Allah does not like the mischief-makers.

getting the whole world into one religion is nothing but a wishful thinking.....


not finished yet........  more in next post


TO BE CONTINUED


15
Alaikom assalam Brother Osama ,and thanx for your link .... 

no muslim would ever deny that the prophet peace be upon him is mentioned in the torah and Injeel,as the prophet like unto Moses peace be upon him....  and the discussion in the thread is not debating that at all ...

take care ..May Allah bless you..



...........................................

Prophet Mohammed pbuh is not the,this or that Messiah does not proves that Islam is a false religion. Nor does it matters to muslims if he was the messiah the Jews awaited or not.


That is true ... TO ADD, Nor does it matter to NON-muslims if he was the messiah the Jews awaited or not,if he never claimed to be so.


AND IF U R MUSLIM I APOLOGISE TO UR ABSURD THEORY OF MESSIAH .

I don't have a theory regarding the messiah , the messiah for me is none.


MY INTENTION WAS - IF ONLY THEY KNEW ABOUT IT THEY WILL INSHA ALLAH COME TO THE  PATH OF TRUTH I.E., ISLAM - IS THE REASON I WROTE THIS ARTICLE.  ..

I'm sure of your good intentions, but  remember:

Holy Quran 16:125 Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way.

I don't find it wisdom to call non-muslims to Islam with the incredible claim that Mohamed peace be upon him is such so called awaited Davidic jewish king messiah.

I don't believe in "the means justify the ends"
 


THE JEWS BELIEVE AND THE BIBLE TOO SAYS THAT MESSIAH WILL COME FROM AMONG THE JEWS FOR THE JEWS AND TO THE JEWS ONLY  ONLY . .How - Read it from the mouth of Jesus of the bible. Jesus of bible himself accepted it when he said   Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews

You have just provided one of the reasons Jesus couldn't be the messiah(as predicted in the tankah) ....   
the messiah as depicted in the tankah would be FOR the Jews ,not AGAINST them.




I already wrote and had proven that jesus himself denied that the messiah they were expecting will not descend from David when he said is y he said Mt 22:41-46 ...Please read it again with understanding

1- and I say the same ,Please read the previous link (I linked before) about Mathew's misinterpretation of the psalm, again with understanding.

2- more important ,let's for the sake of argument suppose that ,Jesus denied that the Davidic messiah is the seed of David ,on the other hand,the original prophecies in the tankah says he must be from the seed of David,,, what does it mean?
I think in that case we have only two options:

A-either the prophecy of the old testament is true "the messiah as the seed of david",hence giving the lie to Jesus of the new testament.

B- or the prophecy of the old testament is faked, hence we are left with the dramatic conclusion(If there were no prophecy ,there were no fulfillment)..


If u r muslim

I'm.

NOR ANYWER IN THE TANAKH(OT) IT IS MENTIONED THAT HE WILL BE A UNIQUE MESSIAH. IS IT ? THEN SHOW ME .

the incredible specific prophecies regarding such so called messiah would make him clearly unique ... as he is said to make dramatic incredible above imagination changes in the world(something that never and will never happen).



 
A UNIQUE PROPHET YES - IT IS GIVEN TO MOSES PBUH -
DT 34:10 THERE HAS NOT RISEN IN ISRAEL A PROPHET LIKE UNTO MOSES

Prophet Mohamed "pbuh" is like unto Moses (at least we Muslims believe so)....

 
A muslim asking where had sahibi said so and so.- this again makes me doubt ur claim of being a muslim.

I said that Abdullah ibn salam believed that Mohamed (pbuh)was a true prophet from God not the davidic messiah, and you doubt me being muslim !!! ,strange,isn't it?!!


   u cannot prove to me thru ur quoting of john 4:25 that jesus is A UNIQUE MESSIAH david king or whatever..


my point was to prove that the Jews(correctly) differentiated between the promised messiah and the prophet like unto Moses....


Who else can jews know like their own sons - No doubt that it was none other than or a unique prophet the messiah awaited by them from the time torah predicted him in Dt 18:18. I WILL RAISE UP A PROPHET NOTE IT IS WRITTEN PROPHET NOT MESSIAH...


once you omit the part in red ,I agree with you 100% then... and thank you for your note "IT IS WRITTEN PROPHET NOT MESSIAH."



ONE IMP QUESTION I WANT TO ASK U? IF HE OR ANY NON-MUSLIM WUD HAVE BELIEVED OR MENTIONED THAT HE WAS THE DAVIDIC-KING MESSIAH - WUD U HAVE BELIEVED HIM TO BE TOO?...

I won't believe ,reason? because neither he nor anyone else fulfilled ANY of the prophecies mentioned about him in the tankah.  but again ,repeating you correct words (Prophet Mohammed pbuh is not the,this or that Messiah does not proves that Islam is a false religion,Nor does it matters to muslims if he was the messiah the jews awaited or not.)

 
Let me tell u that y jesus was never d unique messiah which u claim he was.

I never said he was.


Now I will not reply

I hope you do for a short while till I make a final concluded post , showing how the old testament REALLY depicts the messiah ,and why such depiction is against the holy Quran itself.



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