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Messages - mclinkin94

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1
It has been stated in Answering Islam that "Although, as we shall discover later, the presence of the number 19 in the Quran as presented by Dr. Khalifa, is impressive". Obviously the Answering Islam article had non-numerical objections to it, but nevertheless, they assert there is a vast presence of the number 19 in the Quran.
 
I think the only solution is for me (and you) to study this and see whether such a code exists in the Quran.

It just seems rather odd that an anti-Islamic site that is meant to refute Islam testified to the truth of the Code 19 in the Quran...there must be something serious to it and requires serious study.

http://answering-islam.org/Nehls/Ask/number19.html

2
I've always had an issue with the case of the Quran having "miracles" in it.

Think about it this way. If the Quran had an irrefutable miracle in which it is 100% certainly true, then everyone would become a Muslim. If this happens then there really is no test. Allah stated that life is a test. DO you really think Allah is going to give us the answers to the test, or do you think Allah wants us to strive hard and study hard in order to pass this test?

Given this, Quranic statements must be sufficiently clear to guide someone with an open heart to Islam but at the same time, they must be sufficiently vague so that it does not guide someone with a closed heart who refuses to extensively study the Quran and find the answers.

3
There is only one true interpretation of the Quran. This is true irrespective if people (or the majority of people) adhere to false interpretations.

http://quransmessage.com/articles/how%20to%20study%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

4
In this life, we judge others negatively (even by not speaking to them). We think about them, we call them names--we judge negatively.

I've know someone who was an atheist before he became a Muslim who found more comfort in atheism. This person had a mental illness known as social anxiety. Social anxiety is when you fear everyone's judgement of you and you are nervous in social situations. It is not something rational nor normal. The only cure for it is to go through cognitive behavioral therapy. The atheist was afraid of people judging him as pathetic because he gets too nervous and shaky in social situations. He is unable to find a girlfriend or mate because of his nervousness and he was unable to find a job.

The Atheist found it more comfortable to be an atheist than a Muslim and that is why it took him so long to become a submitter to Allah. As an atheist, he didn't care about anyone's judgement because he was able to tell himself: "The universe will cease to exist and all will be forgotten". This means that there is no reason to care about anyone's negative judgement of you in this life as everything will be forgotten. It was actually his psychologist who asked him of his faith and told him that on his belief system, negative judgement won't matter as everyone will turn to dust and bones and they will forget about you completely! The universe itself will die out.

The Atheist found that quote extremely comforting as he didn't care about anything in the world. He was simple, he lived his life. He realized that everyone's judgement doesn't matter and fear is irrational as everything will cease to exist one day.

But there was a dark thing going on in his heart. He was uncertain whether there is an afterlife. If there was an afterlife, then all WON'T be forgotten as everyone never really dies. He was on the verge of accepting Islam but he couldn't because it would bring his social anxiety back.

His logic is that since everyone will be resurrected, then people won't forget about his negative judgement and he will be remembered forever. People will remember how pathetic he was in this life forever. So he can't find Islam comfortable and it pushes him away from Islam.

This is a really big problem that I think we should address in this research center. We should prove that in the Quran, paradise will be a place where everyone will forget about your life in the temporary world and won't care except for your religious deeds.

We all know that NOTHING in this world matters besides your relationship with Allah and your deeds. We all know that your wealth, your relationships, your life besides your religious deeds will be forgotten.

I think it would be beneficial to write something explaining to him that all will be forgotten in Islam just like atheism, but except your deeds towards Allah. And also it would be beneficial to describe paradise to him and how there will not be any negative judgement therein.

5
My understanding is that sunni Muslims like yourself reject hadiths if they contradict the Quran.

Well, I'm pleased to tell you that the Quran does not permit raping of female slaves. Now the rejection of those hadiths is up to you:

http://quransmessage.com/articles/sex%20with%20slave%20girls%20FM3.htm

"Scripture has never permitted men to engage in sex outside the institution of marriage whether this is from the category of free believing women, or from the category of 'right hands possess'."

6
we had an existence at some location (or in some state) prior to our 'physical' birth. (Our physiological state is different from our spiritual state (nafs)). We took a primordial covenant with God at some point before our physical birth (7:172, see also 33:72). This is where our 'innate' belief of some kind of Creator comes from (our 'fitrah'). We also find a reminder of this in verse 57:8. Then we were put to sleep (1st death). We were then given life in our physical state (1st life). We will then be tested in our lives where God will show us His signs in multifaceted forms. We will not be left without purpose (75:36). We will then pass away, 29:57 (2nd death). On the day of resurrection (on the second 'calling' 39:68, 79:6-7) we will be brought back to life (2nd life).

As you can see there are two 'deaths' and two 'lifes'. This understanding also finds some support from the following verse:

040:011
"They say: Our Lord! Twice have You made us die, and twice have You made us live. Now we confess our sins. Is there any way to go out?"

Here is an inspirational video about this subject matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRGZ7sSlLZU&index=3&list=UUSEJJw_7lB_nzuHxsej_WnA

7
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HE REPLEYED
CL Edwards
That would not have happen since that is not what was decreed to happen. The need for the New Testament was decreed before Jesus was even incarnated, the purpose of the Old Testament was to set the stage for the New, for example see the two promise made by God in Jeremiah 33:14-26 and Jeremiah 31::31-37 ...God's promises can not be broken and that is what we know Islam is not true.

I don't know exactly what the debate is about, so if you care to explain a little-I may be able to help.

What really caught my eye was his last statement and how he said that is how we know Islam is not true. What in the world does that have to do with the subject matter?

These verses he mentioned in no way contradict the Quran (in fact, they are irrelevant to the Quran). The Quran and torah both state that there is going to be more messengers and more laws for and after the children of Israel. The Quran and Torah both agree that the messiah is coming etc.

8
I found this amazing graphic. I don't think I could have explained this better in words. A flow chart! Why didn't I think of that!

Here is a link incase your computer screen isn't big enough for the picture: http://quransmessage.com/charts%20and%20illustrations/tauba/tauba-final-copyright.jpg



9
Question 1: You said that the Quran refers to itself as a book even in the stages where it was not fully given to the prophet Muhammad. So how is it a book if it is only a few bunches of verses?

Answer 1: The Quran existed before it was given to the prophet Muhammad in the preserved tablet.

Quran 85:21-22  But this is an honored Quran [inscribed] on a preserved tablet.

Question 2: You stated it is a contradiction when the Quran said that the people of Muhammad had never gotten a messenger before and where the Quran says that EVERY nation has gotten its messenger.

Answer 2: The people of Muhammad have NOT received a messenger before the prophet muhammad. ONCE the prophet Muhammad became a messenger to his people, EVERY nation at THIS point has received a messenger. So when Muhammad was reciting the Quran, EVERY nation has received its messenger.

Question 3: How could the Quran say that the prophet's people have not received the message if Ismael was a messenger to his people's ancestors?

Answer 3: The problem with this is that this question makes far too many unverified assumptions.

1.) Where in the Quran does it state that Ishmael was a messenger to the prophet Muhammad's people or their fathers? The verses before Quran 6:89 state that these people were chosen and given the message and were prophets. but where does it state that Ishmael was a prophet to prophet Muhammad's people or their ancestors? 

2.) Secondly I believe you are stuck in the delusion that Ishmael was somehow the direct ancestor of the people of Muhammad. Muhammad's people (whenever they settled) were not mentioned to be descended from Ishamael. You believe that ONLY though tradition. This is why Quranists are immune to all Islamic criticisms. The people of Muhammad could have existed before jews for all you know. All in all, nowhere in the Qur’an does it state that Ishmael is the progenitor of the Arab race.

For more on Abraham and Ishmael's relation to Muhammad, visit this link:

http://quransmessage.com/articles/are%20the%20arabs%20descendants%20of%20abraham%20FM3.htm

10
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 29, 2014, 01:14:13 PM »
So you think that Allah doesn't use agents in doing his work? This is obviously false as I could point you to many cases in which Allah used agents to accomplish things. Even by using agents, Allah is the ultimate doer of these things. It is not shirk and it is not superficial shirk. Allah is still the ultimate creator irrespective of what agents he uses.

Again, this is not a guessing game. I gave an analogy and all responded with is that I was playing a game. An analogy is useful in explaining concepts. Here is one:

Let's say that I create a computer simulation (like a sim's game) and I use one of my sims to do something in that simulation. Who is the ultimate simulator in that case? Would it be putting partners with me? No, I'm simply using an agent to do the works. 

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how wrong? I say till blasphemy ...Allah didn't create everything seen and unseen by any agent ..

How do you know that.?

If Allah created the world without an agent he could say in the Quran that he created the entire world.

If Allah created the world WITH an agent, he could still say in the Quran that he created the entire world.

How about this example: In the Quran, Allah sets laws for all of this creation and establishes himself on his throne. So here the agent is the laws set by Allah in the universe. The physical laws are the agents that keep the universe in order.

Note: I am not saying that I know whether Allah used an agent or not in creation, what I am saying is that if he did--he is still the maximally great being and the owner of the worlds.

What I am saying is that Allah is not limited to not using agents in doing his works. Allah can do as he chooses.

Quran 13:11 For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah .


So who is protecting you? Angels or Allah?

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the answer is simple ,either you render the verse as a present and future ,then the meaning any of them who would believe in God, the last day and live righteous lives (aka being a convert to Islam), or render it as a past then the meaning ,any of them who believed in God, the last day and lived  righteous lives (aka those who believed in Moses and the applied the true torah ,and those who applied the true injeel) .... they ofcourse are neither the trinitarians nor the unitarians ... as the Quran clearly blasphemized their theology whether before or after ISlam.

Then we are in agreement except that there is more to it.

Those who:

-Live righteous lives
-Believe only in God
-Believe in the last day

Like i said, I don't see any problem with unitarians fitting that criteria.

Now even if you still maintain that jehovah's witnesses are blaphemining (which is wrong to say based on Allah using agents alone), there are other forms of unitarian Christianity that fit Quran 2:62

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism#Beliefs


11
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 28, 2014, 01:27:23 PM »
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wrong ?!! no it is SHIRK and gets anyone who believes so anytime anywhere outside the folds of islam completely...

Do you think anyone who believes that a human being (jesus) created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Shirk is when you put partners with Allah. If unitarians do that, then they won't be saved.

Now what I know is that unitarians believe that Allah created everything. I don't see any shirk there.

The only thing that is wrong is when they said that Allah used Jesus to create the world. This is not shirk.

In the Quran, Allah used Gabriel to give the message to the prophet. We believe that Allah gave the message to the prophet, irrespective of who he used. Just as the case with Jesus. They believe Allah used Jesus to create the world. Who created the world? Allah. Same concept. Neither counts as shirk. Allah is the ultimate creator and ruler of the world in both cases.

Let's give an example: Let's say Allah created the universe by instructing an Angel to start off the big bang. Who created the universe? An Angel or Allah? Is it shirk to believe that an angel started the big bang by Allah's power? Who is the ultimate creator?

Allah delivered the message to Muhammad in Islam--> Even though he used Gabriel

In Christianity (unfortunately) Allah created the world-->Even though he used Jesus.

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and I said they DON'T, supported that from both the Quran and the same article you quoted.

They do. The Quran makes it clear that some of them do (or did) in 2:62.  I hope you won't at least deny that. Otherwise if none of them believe in God, the last day and live righteous lives, THEN why would Allah say that the jews/Christians that believe in God, the last day and live righteous lives would be saved????

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If the people of the scripture deny and do not uphold the religion of Islam they no longer fit the criteria given in Quran 2:62 and they become disbelievers. 


in other words anyone anywhere who won't uphold the religion of Islam (whether trinitarian,unitarian) as conveyed by the prophet Mohamed peace be upon him becomes automatically disbeliever  ...

Yes. IF they deny the Quran, they become disbelievers. That applies to everyone.

For your second statement, it is true. Anyone who won't uphold the religion of Islam once the Quran has been recited to them, become disbelievers based on the Quranic criteria--yes.

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not because they were believers before the  warning of  the prophet , they simple were disbelievers and continued  to be disbelievers ....
if they were believers there were no sense at all to be warned,fought etc....

Not necessarily. Think of it like your boss at the company gave you a new law--a new rule...if you continue to obey the old law--you are going against your boss.

They were not disbelievers because they:

-Believed in God (not trinitarian either)
-The last day
-Lived righteous lives

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I provided clear cut irrefutable proofs (from both the quran and the bible) that all the people of the book  all included in the verse 9:29 as disbelievers... you provided nothing to sustain your position ..anyway let our readers judge...


one final word,  the words of Abduraheem Greene has nothing to do with the point, the destiny of those christians before or after Islam has nothing to do with whether their theologies can be labled as ISLAM.

Quite the contrary, I have not seen any good arguments presented.


Islam means submission. To be labeled as islam is to submit. If muslims and Christians and jews correctly submit to Allah given by the criteria in the Quran (2:62) and elsewhere, they are Muslim.



12
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 27, 2014, 03:39:06 PM »
It is important to note that I did not say that jehovah's witnesses beliefs are correct.

I said they:

Believe in God
Believe in the last day
Live righteous lives.

Those are the criteria given in Quran 2:62.

Having incorrect beliefs is not a sin. But having incorrect beliefs and hearing Allah's verses and rejecting them, that disqualifies you as being saved because you invalided one of the criteria to be saved ("Live righteous lives")


Now despite the unitarian belief that jesus had some part of creation (which is wrong), they believe the ultimate creator is Allah.

Now you mentioned Quran 9:29. In no place does that verse contradict or as some Quran deniers say "abrogate" Quran 2:62. Quran 9:29 makes it clear that you must fight those who (among others) "who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture". Quran 9:29 is simply commanding Muhammad that he is to inform to the people of the scripture the religion of the truth, and IF they deny and do not uphold the religion of Islam, you are to fight them. ONCE they deny Allah's verses, they no longer fit the criteria given in Quran 2:62 and they become disbelievers. So again, we see my case being proven and your case negated.

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If after all such quranic input still you insist that they are muslims... then not only you could be labled as Sunna denier..but also not a true Quranist....

I have shown you that Quranists are not the only ones who take my position.

Abduraheem Greene stated that this verse does apply to everyone. It applies to people who have not heard of Allah and his verses but who believe in God the last day and live righteous lives. These people are the ones who existed before the Quran was sent down or the ignorant Christians and Jews today.

I don't like to quote authorities to prove my point, I don't need an authority to explain the Quran to me when I've been told to ponder it myself (not let others do it for me). The only reason I pointed you to Greene's statement is to show it is not limited to Quranist reasoning.



13
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 23, 2014, 06:12:26 PM »
[quote0 Thats incredible indeed.... on one hand you wrongly turns the nonmuslims into muslims ,and the muslims into non muslims ...  what a twist !!!

plz remember don't get us into small cult Quranists vs Sunna discussion ... that is not our topic...  [/quote]

Quranist vs. Sunnah is not our topic and it cannot be our topic on this forum :)

I don't think it is incredible to label those who reject one Quranic verse as disbelievers. Whether they identify as Muslim, Christian, etc, you become a disbeliever once you reject a Quranic verse.

Quran 3:4 Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution.


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I repaet again ,christians who never heard of Islam are NOT muslims ([read again my post of the qualifications to be a muslim), but whether destined to hell or not , God will judge them with his justice and mercy....

You are equivocating on the word "muslim". That will serve as an issue.

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  If they held the monotheism of the old testament ,kept the law.... then not only they can be called (muslims) but also saved.  if they took Jesus as God , then they no longer be called muslims and their destiney to hell.

Agreed.


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The best meaning is to say that Unitarians who have not heard Allah's verses in the Quran are Muslims. 

Again unitarians are not muslims even if not heard the Quran.....why? because they don't believe in Allah and the day of judgment ,they don't held the law of lawful and unlawful.

Yes they do. And most do live righteous lives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses#Beliefs


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I also have no problem labeling those who do not know anything about Islam (heard Allah's verses) but believe in God, the last day and live a righteous life as Muslims.   

those folk ,simply don't exist .

You really think that? How about people who only hear bad things about Islam-->Evil, terrorism, murder etc. You think they heard Allah's actual verses and disbelieved?



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I have no problem with that only the christian who took Jesus as God in spite of their knowledge of the monotheism of the old testament shouldn't be saved...

Nor does the Quran.

.
So my basic thesis is that Quran 2:62 states that ANYONE who believes in God, the last day and lives a righteous life will be saved.

Rejecting a Quranic verse is not living a righteous life.

Believing Jesus as God is not believing in Allah as God. 

Those who are ignorant of Islam but believe in God and the last day and live a life that is moral cannot grieve in the last day.

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 23, 2014, 05:37:31 PM »
The monotheists are still waiting .

Hello brother Black Muslim, can you please give me the exact link to the english version of the website that I promised I would discuss Quran Islam in?

I can start discussing with them now. Unfortunately, on this forum, I will no longer discuss anything pertaining to Quran Only Islam.

Feel free to join in in that forum so long as you:

-Avoid rhetoric and insults
-Criticize constructively

I feel like brother Egyptian is a great example of how to discuss something :)

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quranist?
« on: July 11, 2014, 03:52:03 AM »
The monotheists are still waiting .

I will, as I promised.

let me deal with the shias first in their forums as I cannot believe how deviant they are when it comes to the Quranic understanding. 

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