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Messages - Black Muslim

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Hello brother

Don't expect a "hi" in return .

The messenger is prohibited from adding his own teachings to the message he received from God

It seems my words go in an ear and go out the other ! Quran is always your opponent :

Najm 1 By the star when it descends, 2 Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, 3 Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. 4 It is not but a revelation revealed,

Nahl 43 And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know. 44 [We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

You claim is that the words "It was divine inspiration" indicate that every word spoken by Muhammad in his life time (or at least since he started receiving the revelation at the age of 40) is to be regarded as being divine inspiration. As a result of this false claim, you  preach that all Muslims must obey every word spoken by the prophet, whether it is Quran or his personal sayings (hadith).

Really , you need to be slapped for constantly lying . The cheap and pathetic attempt you make to delude us that the teachings of the prophet peace upon him are his personal opinions won't be tolerated . That's first . As to the second point : HOW IN THE WORLD DOES YOUR BRAIN FUNCTIONS !? Who on earth understands this ?! We said that the teachings of the prophet peace upon him when it comes to religion are revelation . Who gave you the ridiculous idea that EVERY SINGLE THING HE SAID is revelation ?! There is even a narration about this case :

From a linguistic point of view, we note that God says "In Huwa ila wahe yuha" 53:4 ..... this literally translates to (It is nothing but inspiration being inspired). the word "Huwa" is a key word in this verse, it literally means 'it', but that is not all. The word 'it' in English does not give a gender, 'it' could refer to a masculine or a feminine equally. However, in Arabic the word "Huwa" refers to the masculine (as opposed to the word Hiya which refers to the feminine). The word "Huwa" here refers to the Quran which is masculine in gender.

What all this means is that in this verse, God is specifically speaking about the inspiration of the Quran to Muhammad. God is not speaking about every word uttered by Muhammad!!

I give you zero out of ten in comrehending . You don't just go against the way an entire body of scholars through history understood Quran , you think you outsmart them in a language you fail at . These are 3 explanations by Ibn Uthaimeen , Assa'di , and Ibn Katheer . And none of them supports you :

And I suppose that "وحي"=revelation is feminine ?! I suppose حديث=Hadith is feminine ?! Stop trying to sound smart with Arabic , it doesn't help you in any way .

So you bring up Quran 16:44 again??
You are still missing the point!
you are still turning a blind eye to the command in 45:6
 please read this verse again where God prohibits us from following ANY hadith other than the Quran.
why do you ignore this command?
 "These are God's revelations (Quran) that We recite to you truthfully. In which hadith other than God and His revelations (Quran) do they believe?" 45:6

For the gazillionth time , trying to delude people with changing the translation into "Hadith" to support your ideology means nothing . And for the gazillionth time , you ignore the fact that Sunnah IS a revelation from Allah . THAT'S the point which I won't let you shove aside .

1- We are told in the Quran that it is God who explains the true meaning of the Quran:
 "Al-Rahman, He teaches the Quran" (55:1-2)

If we take it with this premetive way of view as you do we'd be accusing Allah of contradicting . Exalted he is from what you describe !

16:44 [We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Not to mention that you rejectors contradict Quran AND yourselves in your explanations of Quran . Just as Allah says :

22:8 And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening book [from Him],

2- The prophet was commanded to follow the recitation of the Quran, but was also reminded that it is God who explains the Quran:

Explain it through what or who ? It doesn't matter how much you try to make your way out of this . Without the prophet peace upon him explaining Quran anyone can say whatever the hell they want and THAT'S what's happening . And with this - again - premetive way of viewing the sign , it's as if you're saying Allah talked to people and explained Quran to them directly !!! Exalted he is from what you describe !

3- The Prophet Muhammad was commanded by God to tell the people that he cannot guide them:

I take it back , I give you 1 in comprehending , in negative of course . Not only does this have nothing to do with the case , you completely don't know what you're talking about . Do you understand the differences between the kinds of guiding ? Check point 2 here if you don't :

Why is it so difficult to believe all the words of God which I showed you?
Do you want to be sorry on Judgement day and say I wish I did not let my ego blind me from the truth?

That's my line blind man .

LIES! The Quran does not tell us in ONE verse to follow another revelation besides it.

I won't repeat it for you . If it's difficult for all that information to get to you , I'll let people judge . Time is more precious than spending it arguing about basic teachings of Islam .

EXACTLY! The issue with the Quran is it did NOT say that you need another source to properly understand the Quran! IN fact, it said quite the contrary!
Are we finally on the same page???

The fact is that I'm in a valley , and you're apparently on Saturn !

Let's assume for one second that I don't know the science of hadith. Didn't you list some components of the science and didn't I show you its flaws??

I listed a fraction of strong points in the science of Hadith which show that it isn't a play thing as you think . And all I got in return was objections full of "Maybe there's a conspiracy" and all that sort .

Where does the Quran tell us how to pray and when to pray?.....I KNOW you did not mean that. I know that you know where.

YES I meant it . And I can see what you're gonna say coming and I swear that without the teachings of the prophet peace upon him you'll be contradicting yourself and accusing the entire Muslim population of misguidance .

It has happened in the past, hasn't it? So why are the modern scholars immune?

Again , the cheap attempt of "It happened in the past" won't slide like that .

How about Christianity, huh? How did all these lies get past the scholars unnoticed?

Did you SERIOUSLY just use Chrsitianity as a scapegoat ?! You just used the Bible which is full of unknown writers as a scapegoat ?! If you're so deluded as to put both at the same level then that's YOUR OWN PROBLEM ! Not to mention any theorist can claim the same about Quran using your logic .

A really good hypocrite would be hard to detect.....Secondly, you forgot about the role of people making honest mistakes in the hadith literature.

Your opponent is Quran . There's a whole lot of charecteristics hypocrites share and they can't go unnoticed . Any of them deem someone unworthy of narrating even if he's truly a Muslim . Explanation ? Even a Muslim may have some charecteristics of hypocrites and still be a Muslim . That however is a dangerous sign and not an excuse to keep them . As for holding to "They make mistakes" , again , such a mistake wouldn't pass an entire nation unnoticed . AGAIN , your opponent is the noble Quran :

4:115 And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers - We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.

Not to mention I can claim you are a hypocrite based on your logic .

So you didn't address my arguments against the 'science' of hadiths, you just said hypocrites are impossible to have existed. What a lie.

It is rather cheap when you ignore every response to your speculations against Sunnah . What't cheaper is when you try to put words in my mouth . You have until the judgement day or until one of us dies to bring this line - or anything similar - out of any post I have :
"hypocrites are impossible to have existed"

And if you seriously have difficulties understanding what people say , I'll give you until the next post to try and figure out what I actually said and meant .

Again, you appeal to the ''whole nation'' crap.

So you finally decided to show your true colors huh ? Well Mr "Unnecesarry mentioning of the human body disposals" , your opponent again , and again , AND again is Quran itself :

4:115 And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers - We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.

Oh , and I know you'll be talking about the pictures I put . When you lie , put words in my mouth , ignore whatever kills your argument , you shouldn't be surprised .

« on: May 13, 2014, 12:40:47 pm »
A simple Google search would have been enough really :
And if it wasn't for the lack of time right now , I'm sure that if we look it up a little , we'll find out that this allegation is ridiculous .

Yup, but hadiths are not reveled to Muhammad and are not from Muhammad. They are fabrications. In fact, given that 695,000+/700,000 hadiths were shown to be fabrications by Bukhari gives evidence for my claim.

يخرب بيت الخبالة !

I'll completely ignore this point because it's just fantasy talk based on nothing . But when you lie about Allah when you misquote this sign :

Quran 69:40, 43-46 [That] indeed, the Qur'an is the word of a noble Messenger...And if Muhammad had made up about Us some sayings [other than this revelation-Quran],We would have seized him by the right hand; Then We would have cut from him the aorta.

You're crossing the line . The signs don't help you in anyway . They don't have a thing to do with the current case to begin with ! Here's the full context without cherrypicking like you do :

38 So I swear by what you see 39 And what you do not see 40 [That] indeed, the Qur'an is the word of a noble Messenger. 41 And it is not the word of a poet; little do you believe. 42 Nor the word of a soothsayer; little do you remember. 43 [It is] a revelation from the Lord of the worlds. 44 And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings, 45 We would have seized him by the right hand; 46 Then We would have cut from him the aorta.

So what do sane people understand from this ? It says that Quran is a revelation from Allah and not something prophet Muhammad peace upon him makes out of his mind . What does that have to do with Sunnah ? Nothing . But you probably think that we're so stupid as to let you fool us with the signs from 44 to 46 . You want to delude yourself that the teachings of the prophet peace upon him are innovations ! When you make such a pathetic attempt , your opponent is Quran itself :

Najm 1 By the star when it descends, 2 Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, 3 Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. 4 It is not but a revelation revealed,

Nahl 43 And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know. 44 [We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Sunnah IS a revelation from Allah to agree with Quran , explain it - so that it doesn't let the likes of you make the acrobatic explanations however they like - , or to talk about things Quran didn't mention . They're not innovations of the prophet peace upon him . Wake up of your dreams pal .

Narrating things and accepting the narration from the last man is NOT a good way. It fails on it self and renders the last narration unreliable. The best way is to actually hear the words from the prophet and write them down and not spread them to other people.

Yet again , you fail miserably in showing any weakness about the science of Hadith . Just empty claims any person can make .

Now here you assume that there HAS to be hadiths in Islam. You would be wrong, the Quran is sufficient completely on everything relevant to Islam.

Another cheap and low attempt in lying about Allah . Anyone with common sense who reads these signs :

”Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?” The Word of your Lord is complete in truth and in justice” 6:115
”This is not fabricated ‘hadith’; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a guidance and mercy for those who believe” 12:111
”We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance and mercy and good news for the submitters” 16:89

wouldn't understand thing the way you desire . First of all , Allah is the source of law , and the teachings of the prophet peace upon him are revealed to him by Allah . Done . Secondly , Quran is explained indeed . By who ? By the prophet himself :

Nahl 44 [We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Quran IS complete when it tells us to follow the teachings of the prophet peace upon him which ARE from Allah . Done . Thridly , changing the translation to "Hadith" only makes you cheaper . And if we take the signs in this premetive way of understanding , then where are the laws of gravity in Quran ? Where is the explanation of calculs in Quran ? Where does it tell us how to cook beef ? Forget that , where does it tell us how to pray ? Where does it tell us WHEN to pray ? ANY and EVERY rejector of Sunnah will contradict himself and fall in an endless pit of confusion with his own belif for rejecting it .

What does Allah mean by EVERYTHING?
If a professor tells you, your textbook is complete contains everything and made no exceptions--What are you going to believe? You are going to say that the textbook has everything that is relevant to the course. That does not mean that you can go to another textbook and say that "this other textbook has things relevant to the course that is not in the textbook the professor authorized" The only things that are relevant in the course is everything in the professor's textbook. If any other textbook contains anything else that is not mentioned in the professor's textbook, it is NOT relevant to the course. PERIOD.

A nice - and failing - attempt pal . Let's take it the other way which you dance around . A teacher tells you your schoolbooks are complete . But to explain them proporly you need to read the textbooks with their notes details . On what planet does that mean the schoolbooks are not complete ? Especially when they tell you to return to the textbooks . PERIOD .

Can't a fabricator prove he met someone but lie about what the person he met means? The answer is Yes.

The answer is no . You take an entire nation for idiots when you think such lies can pass them all unnoticed .

Can't a fabricator be a hypocrite and being perceived as being honest and then LIE about the chain of narration and list honest people to make it seem like his narration is true? Yes again.

No again . Why not quote the whole thing pal ? And you dare talk about honesty ?!

Even the slightest readiness of that person to lie deems him a liar , dropped (متروك) or any other term . Not just lying , but also any form of sinful acts . And when all or a the majority of scholars who come from different and far places agree that a person is a liar , there is no meaning in anyone saying he isn't . Also , when all or the majority of scholars testiy for someone , accusing him out of thin air is meaningless . Not to mention that these scholars are testifyed for by others from all different categories of people .

You make it sound as if hypocrites are stealth ninjas which we can never detect . The fact is that Quran itself shows us their charecteristics :

2:8 And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers. 9 They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not. 10 In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie. 11 And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers." 12 Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive [it] not. 13 And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not. 14 And when they meet those who believe, they say, "We believe"; but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say, "Indeed, we are with you; we were only mockers."

9:64 They hypocrites are apprehensive lest a surah be revealed about them, informing them of what is in their hearts. Say, "Mock [as you wish]; indeed, Allah will expose that which you fear."

9:67 The hypocrite men and hypocrite women are of one another. They enjoin what is wrong and forbid what is right and close their hands. They have forgotten Allah , so He has forgotten them [accordingly]. Indeed, the hypocrites - it is they who are the defiantly disobedient.

9:81 Those who remained behind rejoiced in their staying [at home] after [the departure of] the Messenger of Allah and disliked to strive with their wealth and their lives in the cause of Allah and said, 'Do not go forth in the heat." Say, "The fire of Hell is more intensive in heat" - if they would but understand.

Not to mention that there is a whole Surah in the noble Quran named after them :

63: 5 And when it is said to them, "Come, the Messenger of Allah will ask forgiveness for you," they turn their heads aside and you see them evading while they are arrogant.

63:7 They are the ones who say, "Do not spend on those who are with the Messenger of Allah until they disband." And to Allah belongs the depositories of the heavens and the earth, but the hypocrites do not understand. 63:8 They say, "If we return to al-Madinah, the more honored [for power] will surely expel therefrom the more humble." And to Allah belongs [all] honor, and to His Messenger, and to the believers, but the hypocrites do not know.

So just hiding behind the pathetic "Maybe they are hypocrites" doesn't add a thing . And if it was that easy , I can say that you're a hypocrite and you have no right object . The same goes to any person .

The fabricator can have good memory in what he fabricated and narrate the same fabrication every time to pass his sick twisted agenda.

And you think I'll let it slide that they are fabricators as you like to believe ? Check the rest of the conditions again pal .

So as you have seen these methods are unreliable and not a science not to mention that even honest people can make big mistakes! In fact, I could be considered an honest Muslims to my friends, yet have an atom's weight of dishonesty and I want to pass on an Islamic agenda that I THINK will be good for Islam. Therefore, I will lie about where I got the narration and make it an authoritative source so people believe me. I will remember my lie very well because I made it up.

So you admit that you're a liar . Anyway , honest people MAY make mistakes , but for the WHOLE nation to notice this mistake , your opponent is the noble Quran itself :

4:115 And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers - We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.

That is why it is absurd when you think you outsmarted an entire nation and found a mistake it didn't for 15 centuries .Arrogance would be too little to describe that .

How do I know that the Quran is preserved and from Allah? The number 19 code of the Quran let's us know that unless people in the past had computers, they wouldn't be able to make a book with such a strong numerical consistency.

And that's one of the reasons I believe you are mentally challenged . So you're saying the WHOLE nation for 15 centuries used to be formed of blind believers who have no evidence or proof to their beliefs . Not to mention that the whole thing of a code is ridiculous and anyone can forge it . Christians do it so why not ? And if you think it's really impossible to make a code or such a thing at those times , you're being deluded . History is full of all kinds of knowledge which surprise even the most advanced and experienced right now . You got the pyramids , you got astrology and people who were able to locate a planet around Sirius and worship it - besides the point - , you got batteries in what we know now as Iraq . So the next time you bring this nonsense about Da Vinci codes you're making a complete joke of yourself . That goes to show how low and pathetic rejectors can go to support their doctrine . Here , this sign comes to mind :

25:43 Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire? Then would you be responsible for him?

you are gonna need to do better than insult my argument. If all of those hadiths (700,000+_were fabrications, then it is likely that the ones we have were also fabrications and now we know that people in the past LIED about the prophet Muhammad. This (combined with the flaws in hadith collection) therefore renders hadiths unreliable. Moreover, the Quran tells us to not believe in ANYTHING with respect to religion unless it is in the Quran.

Do you call that an argument ?! It doesn't differ from those loons who say that Illuminati can control weather and earthquakes . It's all speculations and delusions based on nothing . End of the story . And I will never let you slide anything and take it for a given . If you want to believe that since there are many fabricated narrations then ALL the narrations are fabricated , then I will refuse your religion of evolution JUST because there were cases of faking evidence . Oh sorry , did I hit a nerve ?

You missed the point. My point was, there are so many lies in hadiths and so many people lied about the prophet. This means that hadiths are fundamentally unreliable.

Need I remind everyone about melons and tornadoes ?

^This was deemed a sahih hadith. LOL. Now, you would say that some modern islamic scholars disregard this hadith. I would agree with you, BUT, the point was lies did make it to the "sahih" hadiths.

A blunt lie . What do we expect of someone who doesn't know his metatarsus from elbow - makes more sense in Arabic - ? If you bothered ask about it , you'd know that a number of former scholars deemed it weak and Bukhari said it is from the words of "Kab Al-Ahbar" . And instead of asking those who know about what you don't understand , you act full of yourself as if your logic and mind are perfect and superior to the rest of mankind :

Again , even if one scholar made a mistake , the whole body of scholars wouldn't let it pass unnoticed .

Here's another point , if Sunnah is really fabricated as you delude yourself , how come the fabricators made miracles in them ? "There are miracles in Sunnah ?" Oh yes , but how would someone who doesn't read know that ? :

Everytime you opent your mouth you prove that you're completely ignorant of Quran , Sunnah , or anything there is about Islam . Aside from your speculations which are based on nothing , you got NOTHING to back your claims up .

Flaw 1) The Quran says NOTHING or even mentions the hadiths or following them. If the Quran is the only source of law and says nothing of hadiths and tells us to not follow any other book, then following hadiths are not a commandment from Allah. And if you are a follower of hadiths you are NOT a Muslim (submitter). You disregarded Allah's strict commandment.

Lie 1) . Quran DOES order us to follow the teachings and commands of the prophet peace upon him and the signs in that are numerous :

{يـا أيـها الذين آمـنوا أطيعوا الله وأطيعوا الرسول ولا تبطلوا أعمالكم}
{من يطع الرسول فقد أطاع الله ومن تولى فما أرسلناك عليهم حفيظاً}
{وما آتاكم الرسول فخذوه وما نهاكم عنه فانتهوا واتقوا الله إن الله شديد العقاب}

So flat out , every single Muslim out there MUST know that it is obligatory to obey the prophet peace upon him in what Allah reveals to him . And if you're going to be stubborn and argue that we shouldn't obey him , then don't dare call yourself a Muslim . It isn't me who says so , it the noble Quran which you are most ignorant of :

{فلا وربك لا يؤمنون حتى يحكموك فيما شجر بينهم ثم لا يجدوا في أنفسهم حرجا مما قضيت ويسلموا تسليماً}
{وما كان لمؤمن ولا مؤمنة إذا قضى الله ورسوله أمراً أن يكون لهم الخيرة من أمرهم ومن يعص الله ورسوله فقد ضل ضلالاً مبينا}

Flaw 2) The 'science' of hadiths is bad philosophy and hardly a science. First of all hadiths are chinese whispers, it is like the telophone game in elementary school where you whisper things to student and the student whispers to the next in the whole class. How often is the last whisper the same as the original? Secondly, the hadith collectors decided to collect hadiths and call them 'sahih' based on the character of the hadith whisper chain. Now the issue is, couldn't the fabricator also fabricate the chain of narrations. I could go on and on, but I will later.

Lie 2) . Your ignorance of Sunnah doesn't hold a value . And since you're so arrogant and full of yourself to ask those who know , I'll give you some fragments about this methodology to slap you with the fact that it is superior to your so called "science" .

First of all , that's a cheap , low , and pathetic attempt to compare the narrations to a school game . If that proves a thing , it proves that you're cheap . The worst is that you expect me to let it "slide" . And whenever I addressed this lie in the past , you ignored it the same way you ignore whatever breaks your back .

Now tell me : If narrating things one man after another isn't a good way - in fact , the best - to judge what's valid and what's not , what is ? You just use your ignorance of the basics of this method to justify your doctrine . Moreover , you use a load of ridiculous conspiracy theories which don't hold a candle to reality which is in turn based on ignorance . That's why I keep saying ignorance and arrogance are a dangerous combination . Just try to bring a methodology to view history and you'll see that it's a huge failure in comarison .

It is outright impossible for all these people living far from each other - one at Persia and the other at the current Tunisia ! - to agree on the same lie and tell it the same way . Whoever has this delusion has to prove it or shut it . You want to delude yourself and others that scholars would just take whatever anyone tells them without any varefication . And if you actually bothered to ask , you'd know that there are 5 conditions to accept a narration which are :

1) The connection of the chain . This means that if someone tells something about a person he can't prove he met - or died before he was ever born - then the narration is dropped at once . It means that a person must say clearly "That person told me" or "I heard that person say" or some other formats which you are too full of yourself to learn about . If he says "That person said" then it's called "Mu'allaq" and that is a type of weak narrations . This goes to show that every detail is important and not a game you play with your friends as in your lala world .

2) Justice of the narrators . This means that not anyone is accepted in narrating . They must be known by name (معلوم العين) and honesty (معلوم الحال) . Even the slightest readiness of that person to lie deems him a liar , dropped (متروك) or any other term . Not just lying , but also any form of sinful acts . And when all or a the majority of scholars who come from different and far places agree that a person is a liar , there is no meaning in anyone saying he isn't . Also , when all or the majority of scholars testiy for someone , accusing him out of thin air is meaningless . Not to mention that these scholars are testifyed for by others from all different categories of people .

3) Adjustment of narrators . It means that the narrators need to have good memory in what they talk about . When someone narrates the same thing the same way to different people at different times , that's a sign of a solid memory . Not just memory , but understanding as well . The narrator needs to understand what the narration says and comprehend it . Too many stumbles or mistakes deem him unworthy . Again , when all of the majority of scholars say that someone is adjusting well then there's is no value in saying otherwise .

And two more conditions , but this is quite enough for the topic righ now . The point is that you use your ignorance of something as an argument . There is nothing wrong with this science . Especially since it is Allah who put the bases to it :

{يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آَمَنُوا إِنْ جَاءَكُمْ فَاسِقٌ بِنَبَأٍ فَتَبَيَّنُوا أَنْ تُصِيبُوا قَوْمًا بِجَهَالَةٍ فَتُصْبِحُوا عَلَى مَا فَعَلْتُمْ نَادِمِينَ}

And although there is nothing superior to what Allah says , just have the words of Bernard Lewis

From an early date Muslim scholars recognized the danger of false testimony and hence false doctrine, and developed an elaborate science for criticizing tradition. " Traditional science", as it was called, differed in many respects from modern historical source criticism, and modern scholarship has always disagreed with evaluations of traditional scientists about the authenticity and accuracy of ancient narratives. But their careful scrutiny of the chains of transmission and their meticulous collection and preservation of variants in the transmitted narratives give to medieval Arabic historiography a professionalism and sophistication without precedent in antiquity and without parallel in the contemporary medieval West. By comparison, the historiography of Latin Christendom seems poor and meagre, and even the more advanced and complex historiography of Greek Christendom still falls short of the historical literature of Islam in volume, variety and  analytical depth

As for the absurdity of "Narrators could have fabricated chains" , even though the last points I made show that it's impossible for such a thing to go unnoticed , I'll play your game and ask : How do I know that Quran is from Allah and not an innovation of humans ? Because it says that it is from Allah ? Nah , that's circular reasoning . How do I know it wasn't altered or corrupted ? Because it says that it didn't ? Nah , circular reasoning again ? Because you believe there is a Da Vinci code in it that no one except you believes is there ? Hang on a second , how did the prophet of Islam - peace upon him - prove so to people from his time ? Speaking of which , how can I even know that there is a man called Muhammad - peace upon him - who lived 15 centuries ago and said he is a prophet ? Because all the people narrated so to us ? Because it is impossible for all these people to lie and agree on the same details ? Well that makes sense .

And of course I don't use this flawed logic but you are the one who tries to make it rational when you use it .

Flaw 3) The number of hadiths collected and attributed to the prophet Muhammed is in the hundreds of thousands, as much as 700,000. The majority of these hadith are pure lies and fabrications and were rejected by the early Muslim scholars who thought they can figure out which hadith is authentic and which is not.

Lie 3) . Spamming "The majority of these narrations are pure lies" might work when you argue with 3 years old or mentally challenged individuals , but not with someone who has the slightest bits of common sense . Not to mention that making allegations which have nothing to back them up only makes you look bad . I swear to lord if this conversation was at the monotheism forum they wouldn't let your allegations slide like this . They'd disect them one by one .

Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, collected about 40,000 hadiths, in his famous "Musnad".He chose these 40,000 hadiths from among 700,000 hadiths. In other words he thought 660,000 hadith were un-proven, lies and/or fabrications and the others may be authentic. That is 94% lies and fabrications

Is this supposed to be a joke or what ? So Ahmad bin Hanbal - رحمه الله - was careul with narrations and wouldn't just accept anything told to him . And I can see what you're trying to do there - see what I did there ? - and again , it won't slide . He didn't just "think" they were lies and thus he refused them . He KNEW they were lies based on the methodology mentioned in the last point . And he didn't choose the authentic ones because thay "may" be so . He did so because he knew they are based on the methodology we keep telling you to learn about or shut up . Sure , he made a number of mistakes here and there which scholars combined noticed and didn't let pass simply but that's another point . The point here is that your line holds a value of zero . The same goes with Bukhari and Muslim - رحمهما الله - . You have SERIOUS flawsin understanding what the science of Hadith is . They collect narrations , judge their chains and bodies (متون) , deem the authnetic authnetic , and warn people of the weak and fabricated and even make whole books for that . Yes , Bukhari has a book named the weak ones (الضعفاء) but you probably don't know . And whatever one of them may not notice is noticed by the rest . That's nearly the same as peer reviewed researches - wich pale in comparison - so why object ?

This gives us an idea of how much corruption entered or tried to enter Islam from the back door. Now we should understand why God promised to preserve, protect and safeguard His book which is described as the only authentic hadith, the only acceptable hadith and the best hadith.

You'll make a joke of yourself when you say such a line while you just refused the best method there is to preserve history . And although it's true that the people of falsehood tried to corrupt it , it doesn't mean they succeeded . That's the same as the delusions of whoever believes aliens made us . Oh wait a minute , you believe in something similar but that's beside the point .

As for the "Open minded" thing , I'll take it as a joke and ignore it . So take some time and have even the smallest fraction of humblness to learn what you hate and despise in Islam so much .

I would advise brother BlackMuslim to be more respectful.
Again , insults against me pass as if they aren't there . But I would never remain silent while someone who's supposed to be a Muslim insults Allah and his prophet . Simple as that . If you want me to respect someone who does that , then the problem is with you . Not to mention how he went as low as to mention the disposals of the human body and such .

As for the acrobatic turn around Osama is making :

He's basically given a silly opinion about the breast feeding of adults from some salafi "scholars".
Go ahead , call us pure the same way the people of Lut peace upon him hated him and his family for that .

They said that the breasts feeding doesn't have to be by physical contact between the man's mouth and the breast's nipple.
And so does the Arabic language if you actually know it . See point 3 here :

But from the debates I've seen between your "scholars", the woman who isn't even wet (she has dry breasts, because she didn't give birth) can still breast feed.  Putting your mouth in the breast and sucking makes her your foster mother!
This , is one of the most ridiculous ways I've seen in avoiding questions and distracting the topic . It has NOTHING to do with the case we're talking about in any way . You're basically saying "Oh look ! These people made a mistake in a completely non related topic ! Thus you're wrong !" . And let us suppose that you are actually telling the truth , they'd be talking about infants who become related by breastfeeding even though there isn't any actual milk . What does THAT have to do with anything ? And if you can get rid of a small portion of this arrogance toward asking those who know , have a look here to understand the conditions for breastfeeding to make a person "Mahram" to the other :
Yet again , your reasons for denying anything is your ignorance of it and your personal preference . You just spam the "Conspiracy" like those loons and you can't back your empty claims with anything of scientific value .

But who cares about the Quran.  It is secondary.  Right "Black Muslims"?
I said I can take insults at me , but lying about me and putting words in my mouth about Islam is cheap and low and passing the line . Don't you agree , "Dead Man" ?

So again, until Muslims (Bleep) we will never advance.
This , is an extremely STUPID line . Probably one of the most stupid in this topic . You go on about how "I studied the whooooooole Quran and Hadith and no one knows better than me" but you fail horribly at showing any of that . What advancement ? The Islamic nation is the only one which knew glory when it held to its teachings . When they worked with these narrations you despise so much that you might die , they advanced and ruled the world with the rule of Allah . That's what Abu Bakr , Umar , Uthman , Ali , may Allah be pleased of them did . Your battle is against them . That's a losing battle .

I honestly got very disappointed in you . Lying , ignoring , ranting without the slightest shred of evidence , denying what is necessarily known to every Muslim , and lack of manner when talking about Islam itself . And yet again , nothing you say holds an actual value . My answers are in a valley , and yours are on another planet .

But seriously, did you even refute anything here, akhi "Black Muslim"??  Who is ranting here?  Me or you?
It is clearly you , both when it comes to manners and evidence .

Keep believing that Bukhari memorized 600,000 hadiths, and Ahmed memorized 1,000,000 hadiths.
I don't know about this . But if it's true then it's true . It's not - AGAIN - physically or logically impossible . There are records of people memorizing a huge number of information . And if you take a look at this video - it has sources to what it says - then you'll see a guy able to memorize things the same as Google ! :

Keep believing in all of the nonsense that was injected into the books that you call sihah
Nonsense with what evidence or proof ? Nothing . THAT'S the point . Your replies are full of "I don't believe" and you don't back up a thing at all with proof of it . They're mere speculations and delusions . Not to mention that these weak delusions can be used to attack Quran itself . You keep saying they couldn't corrupt Quran . What reason do you have to believe that ? Because it says it is preserved ? Any person can say it is corrupted based on your line of thinking . Us on the other hand believe it is with proof and evidence the same way as Sunnah .

Like I said, they couldn't penetrate the Glorious Quran, so they instead invented books and put them on the same level as the Quran to damage Islam.
A lie with horns as we would say . It seems we talk to dead men when we say that Sunnah is the second revelation after Quran which explains it and doesn't contradict it except in the heads of the foolish .

And why did you ignore everything I said ? I quoted every related thing you said and answered it one by one . Your core problem is that you appeal to emotional authority over everything . You refuse things JUST because you "don't believe" them . And I explained time and time again that the error is in your way of thinking . But rather , you take your words for a standard instead of the words of Allah and his prophet . Everything you object about is possible on the two scales I keep repeating but you "don't believe" it because it doesn't make sense to you .

And as I keep saying , I take an insult directed at me with an ear and take it out with the other . I don't bother with them . However , when it comes to Allah , his religion , his prophet , and his companions , then you'll find me ruthless for sure .

And if banning someone is a cowardly act , ignoring them is as cowardly . My post is still here unanswered .

Jinns are not flesh and blood.  They can't eat our dust and water and flesh and blood materials.
Evidence from Quran or Sunnah ? I didn't think so . I saw people denying things because they are physically - but NOT logically - impossible . The problem here is that it is neither physically OR logically impossible . And you're talking as if you met Jins and saw their structure and everything . I can safely say you didn't .

Akhi, I read your sources and I am not convinced.  The Noble Verse that you mentioned in Arabic by the way is about Prophet Moses' Miracle when he turned the stick into a snake.  Peace be upon Prophet Moses.  It doesn't say that he got bewitched or anyone got bewitched.
OK , seriously , ARE YOU SERIOUS ?! How can anyone understand anything except that ?!

65 They said, "O Moses, either you throw or we will be the first to throw." 66 He said, "Rather, you throw." And suddenly their ropes and staffs seemed to him from their magic that they were moving [like snakes].

Your forcing your cult's nonsense into the Holy Quran to justify the crimes that had been injected in your "Sahih"
It seems the difference between us isn't some minor disagreement but rather in fundamental basics . And I won't ease for anyone when it comes to that .

wipe the floor with:

1-  The Prophet of Islam.

2-  Aisha, the Prophet's wife.

3-  Claiming that the Holy Quran is corrupt, when Its Overwhelming Miraculous Text and Compilation and Miracles testify to the Holy Book's Divinity.
May the lord wipe the floor with YOU ! Don't you have the slightest jealousy or love for the prophet peace upon him to NOT insult him ?! I took insults directed at me from an ear and had them out of the other . But this is just outrageous to hear from supposedly Muslims . It's not OK to repeat - literally - the insult someone directed at you , but when it comes to Allah , Islam , and the prophet peace upon him , then that's sweet !!

This sick and dumb
And you have the nerve talk about emotional rant ?

Both of you are criminals!  Not all of your followers.  But this Ummah's problems come straight from both of your cults.  Like everyone here sees, you're willing to wipe the floor with Islam to save your false narrations.  This is not my Islam.  Far be it from me.
It is clear to everyone right now that this is no more a simple conversation . This is a battle between right and wrong . I CARELESS about Shia's . So slam them with the nearest wall if you want . The prophet peace upon him named the surviving group and said it's the one following him and his companions . So trying to insult someone with "Salafi" as in someone following the prophet peace upon him is like what the people of Lut peace upon him said :

But the answer of his people was only that they said, "Evict them from your city! Indeed, they are men who keep themselves pure."

And no one is threatening Islam except those who want it to match their personal liking . The ones who deny whatever there is if they can't comprehend "how" it's done . Just like the guy who denies the existence of the car because he doesn't understand how it can move without a horse pulling it . And evidence and proof are between us .

You want to believe that Aisha used to have her sisters and nieces have their breasts get SUCKED BY GOWN MEN so she would become their "Aunt in Islam" and then have private sessions with them, then that's your BS.  I reject such garbage,
Since you decided to take it that low , don't expect any "Akhi" or "Brother" treatment . First of all , the main problem is your ignorance of what رضاع means in Arabic . I mentioned it in the last reply but it seems I'm talking to dead men here . Here's the explanation in qoutes :

لا بد من توضيح شيء مهم جدا وهو :
ان معنى الرضاع لا يكون بالضروري التقام الثدي

ومنه قول الشاعر
وذموا لنا الدنيا وهم يرضعونها * * * أفاويق حتى ما يدر لها رسل

عن عائشة –رضى الله عنها- أن سالماً مولى أبى حذيفة كان مع أبى حذيفة
وأهله فى بيتهم فأتت (تعنى ابنة سهيل) النبى فقالت : إن فى نفس أبى حذيفة من ذلك شيئاً فقال لها النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم : "ارضعيه تحرمى عليه، ويذهب الذى فى نفس أبى حذيفة" فرجعت، فقالت : إنى قد أرضعته، فذهب الذى فى نفس أبى حذيفة"

سؤال اذا كان أبوحذيفة رضي الله عنه في نفسه كراهة بوجود سالم فكيف يرضى ان يرضع بالتقام الثدي ؟؟
قال ابن عبد البر : صفة رضاع الكبير أن يحلب له اللبن ويسقاه، فأما أن تلقمه المرأة ثديها، فلا ينبغى عند أحد من العلماء
وقال عياض : ولعل سهلة حلبت لبنها فشربه من غير أن يمس ثديها، ولا التقت بشرتاهما، إذ لا يجوز رؤية الثدى، ولامسه ببعض الأعضاء.
قال الإمام الزرقاني : "وكأن القائلين بأن ظاهر الحديث أنه رضع من ثديها، لم يقفوا فى ذلك على شئ فقد روى ابن سعد عن الواقدى عن محمد بن عبد الله ابن أخى الزهري عن أبيه قال : كانت سهلة تحلب فى إناء قدر رضعته، فيشربه سالم فى كل يوم، حتى مضت خمسة أيام،فكان بعد ذلك يدخل عليها وهى حاسر،رخصة من رسول الله لسهلة"
وبهذا نستبعد أن الرضاع حصل بالملامسة ، للرواية من جهة ولرأي الجمهور من جهة أخرى .
فجمهور الصحابة على أن قصة سالم واقعة عين خاصة به، ولا يصح الاحتجاج بها لغيره، وتابع على ذلك جمهور علماء الأمة من التابعين فمن بعدهم، وانفردت عائشة –رضى الله عنها- مع قلة من الفقهاء منهم : عروة بن الزبير، وعطاء بن أبى رباح، والليث بن سعد، وابن علية، وغيرهم رأوا أن قصة سالم عامة، وأن إرضاع الكبير يثبت به التحريم وللكل وجهة نظر ودليل
ثم ان عائشة –رضى الله عنها- ومن قال بقولها من الفقهاء فرأوا أن قصة سالم عامة للمسلمين، لمن حصل له ضرورة : وللكل في هذا الخلاف وجهة نظر ودليل، ولم يكن لهذا الاختلاف بينهم أى أثر فى اعتقادهم صحة الحديث، الذى يحاول دعاة الفتنة وأدعياء العلم تضعيفه أو النيل من عدالة رواته، ومن أخرجه من الأئمة الأعلام فى كتبهم.

And these are some links about it :

Further more , that was an opinion by the mother of the believers may Allah be pleased of her and she was mistaken in it . What , you'll say she's divine and doesn't do anything wrong ? And even so , it doesn't touch her validity in any way .

You want the wipe the floor with Islam and the Prophet of Islam for believing the poisonous lies about him got bewitched, then that's your nonsense and your problem.  This is not my Islam.  I don't believe a Jew (notice it's a Jew, not a pagan) stole a piece of hair from the Prophet, did abakadabra on it, then hid it under a rock and caused the Prophet to get bewitched for 1 full year is true.  I believe it is a false lie injected into Islam. 
It is your nonsense and load of garbage to deny the noble Quran where it says clearly that Moses peace upon him was bewitched .

And while we're at it.  Has your cult been able to find the so-called chained dajjal in the "island"?  They inspected all of the Middle East's Islands and found non.  And so far, no Island in the entire world has any chained dajjal. 
Screw your inspections and satellites ! Do you view yourselves as Gods ?! Are you so foolish and deluded as to believe you can attain all the knowledge there is ?! What's the difference between that and the bloody Atheists ?! Just because you are utterly ignorant of something doesn't mean it's not ture ! Furthermore , whoever said he is chained on the Arabian Island ?!

عَنْ أَبِي بَكْرٍ الصِّدِّيقِ - رَضِيَ الله عَنه - قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ - صلى الله عليه وسلم - قَالَ: ** الدَّجَّالُ يَخْرُجُ مِنْ أَرْضٍ بِالْمَشْرِقِ يُقَالُ لَهَا خُرَاسَانُ يَتْبَعُهُ أَقْوَامٌ كَأَنَّ وُجُوهَهُمْ الْمَجَانُّ الْمُطْرَقَةُ } حديث صحيح رواه الترمذي .

How can you be so deluded as to believe that they know ALL there is on Earth ?! They bloody don't know what's in their bloody noses !!  Day after day , they discover something new and admit they were wrong before . Time after time , they discover new islands here and there , in addition to islands surfacing from the bottom of the sea . And further more , this isn't even PHYSICALLY impossible . If your so called inspectors can know everything then NO ONE they chase would be able to hide . They wouldn't have chased criminals here and there . But it's just the disease of arrogance and the belief that your so called "logic" is supreme and can decide what's right and wrong in any way and any case . Add to that sheer ignorance of fundamental and important basics and rules in Islam which you see yourself higher than learning them .

And thus far , you only sprouted nonsense of "I don't believe , I don't think , that doesn't make sense" . Well screw your screwed sense ! If we refuse everything because mad men "don't find it logical" then we should forget life as we know it . You made your personal - lacking - abilities of comprehending the standard to decide right and wrong . You just ignored Quran , Sunnah , and any and everything else . All that matters is your personal "I don't think so" ! Your problem is deep to the core ! To the basics of the methodology ! And any non Muslim can just say "You claim this narration is wrong because it contradicts Quran ? Well I say it is true and it does contradict it and thus Islam is wrong" and BOTH of you are bloody wrong !! He's deluded and thinks it contradicts it . And you are full of arrogance to ask about what you can't understand ! And if your logic actually works , you should deny the whole Islam because Quran itself mentions things physically impossible but logically possible . A scholar once said something close to this :

قد يأتي القرآن بمحارات العقول و لكنه لا يأتي بمحالات العقول

And with a rough translation it becomes :

Quran might say things our minds are confused with , but it never says things impossible to logic .

The problem is in the hadith collections.  To me, what disagrees with the Holy Quran and with established science should be rejected.
Well keep your nonsense to yourself ! Both Quran and Sunnah are revelations from the almighty . This basic knowledge we are taught in the first elementary year !

I don't understand what is the big deal to flush out the false narrations when the collectors of the hadiths themselves did that before.
That's either a lie or ignorance . No scholar rejected anything based on his personal opinion . There is a whole science of narrations - that is the best humanity can have - which you see yourself too important to learn . A science that inspects a single alphabet or even the way that alphabet is said . With help o Allah , they were able use this science to know the true from forged . Fact is , they didn't need it at first , but with liars and unknown people here and there talking however they want , it was necessary or we would have become like Jews and Christians and their unknown writers . THAT'S how they deemed a narration weak or wrong . Claiming that they are forged means to call the whole body of scholars liars and conspirators . And I can almost swear that you don't have the smallest shred of knowledge about right and false narrations . It's just what you prefer that matters .

Did not Imam Ahmed choose his collection from what he claimed 1,000,000 hadiths?  That's one million.  I believe the number is too ridiculously high, and this is a lie on his mouth, but it is nonetheless there.  Similarly, did not Bukhari say that he chose his hadiths from 600,000?  That's six hundred thousand.  So why can't we today clean out the absurd lies and only take what agrees with the Holy Quran?
Again , the thing of "I believe" goes to the nearest trash dumb . No science or form of knowledge follows this way . And it seems it would kill you to look over Google for a possible explanation . But nooooooooo "The great me can never misunderstand anything" apparently .

Is that too much to ask?  Do we really need to read about how the Prophet lived, and what food he ate, and how he even used to do the #2 in using the bathroom (seriously!!), and how he had sex with his wives, and what dramas took place between his wives, and who was the hypocrite and who wasn't, and what dramas and conflicts took place between the Muslims, and what civil wars happened between them, and which side should you be on?  Do we need all of this rubbish?
Rubbish my foot ! This is called honesty and truthfulness ! We don't just shove everything aside because you mister "don't believe" it is necessary . Islam is a whole way of life . YES , it teaches you how to do a load of things in a right way even cleaning after using the bathroom . Or maybe you don't want it to teach people to use water in this case ? Oh wait , you DON'T DO THAT IN USA !! Your bathrooms don't have the basic and important thing called "water" to wash . And here's something just to shock you more about using the toilet while sitting :

There . You just had to make me show the other face . Insults against myself are meaningless . Absurd slanders and ridiculous claims against Allah and his prophet are the red line . You showed that your sole reason for rejecting whatever the flip you want to reject from Islam is your personal "I don't think , I don't believe , I believe" . That is , from the bottomline , meaningless in methodology and any form of knowledge .

So what now ? You'll ban me for inappropriate talk ? Check your own words again pal .

I swear to the lord , Osama , if you bothered think it over a little you wouldn't have dared claim - just like that and with no proof - that this is forged or fabricated . There isn't even the slightest contradiction in this narration with the physical or logical possibilities . It says that Jins eat bones , is that physically or logically impossible ? We know animals who do eat the things with its flesh and bones like hyenas . Is it logically impossible ? Try and bring me one reason to say so .

So what is your problem with this narration ? Is it because we don't see them eat bones ? Do I need to remind everyone that Jins are from the world of the unseen ? And since Islam was proved with proof and evidence to be true , we believe what it says because it can't say something wrong . Do you think it doesn't make sense because we see bones remaining in their places for days and weeks and no Jins eat them ? Where in the world did you get the idea that ALL the bones around the world are eaten by Jins ?! It says it eats them , it doesn't say it eats ALL of them !

And do we REALLY need to repeat the thing about the bewitchment ? If you find it illogical , you need to say that Quran is illogical and exalted is Allah above that :

((قَالَ بَلْ أَلْقُوا ۖ فَإِذَا حِبَالُهُمْ وَعِصِيُّهُمْ يُخَيَّلُ إِلَيْهِ مِنْ سِحْرِهِمْ أَنَّهَا تَسْعَىٰ))

So is it a fabrication too that the prophet of Allah , Moses peace upon him was bewitched ? And why is it impossible ? Aren't they humans ? And no , it didn't make them say a SINGLE wrong theing about the revelation . That's where "Isma" of the prophets is .

And the whole thing of breastfeeding the adult . First of all , there is no "Breast" feeding . This is caused by the lack of English compared to Arabic and thus false meaning when translated . And could you bother read some answers to that ? :

And when we talk about the monkeys , didn't I give you a video of national geographic - or maybe another channel , not so sure - about monkeys stoning another for adultery ? Not to mention that this narration isn't from the words of the prophet peace upon him but rather a follower "Tabi'i" .

As for the false Christ "Dajjal" . I am actually SPEECHLESS ! So just because you didn't see him you deny his existence ?! What's with this arrogance ?! Do you think that your satellites can see everything and bring you the knowledge of everything ?! Did not they just discover a whole cave so big that it has its own climate ?! Where were the bloody satellites all this time ?

The problem here is the false idea that one's mind or intelligence is perfect and can never be wrong . So just because it couldn't understand "how" something - that isn't physically or logically impossible - happened , they deny it on the spot ! What's the difference between those and the others who deny the sea splitting for Moses peace upon him because their limited minds can't comprehend it ?

Oh , and it DOES happen that the sea splits in our time and life although not on the same scale but it still counts :

Quite honestly, I don't care even if the Prophet himself said it and was wrong.  There are instances where the Prophet made wrong decisions.
You wouldn't have dared say this if you knew how dangerous it is . The prophet peace upon him is a human , right . He makes mistakes in the matters of life , right . But when it comes to the revelation , NOT A SINGLE CHANCE IN A MILLION YEARS !! Or do you disagree with Quran on this ?

((Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.)) The star .
Or with the prophet himself ?

مررت مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بقوم على رؤوس النخل فقال ما يصنع هؤلاء فقالوا يلقحونه يجعلون الذكر في الأنثى فيلقح فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ما أظن يغني ذلك شيئا قال فأخبروا بذلك فتركوه* فأخبِر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بذلك فقال إن كان ينفعهم ذلك فليصنعوه فإني إنما ظننت ظنا فلا تؤاخذوني بالظن ولكن إذا حدثتكم عن الله شيئا فخذوا به فإني لن أكذب على الله عز وجل

And wither you had encounters with ignorants who didn't know how to answer you doesn't change a thing .

Thanks for replying akhi. well, I really do not understand what you mean. Can you explain this?
Jins = Bacteria (AKA germs) ? Yeah , with what Quran and Sunnah tell us about Jins , this DOES make sense as this :
No offense Tanveer .

That makes about as much sense as a banana riding a tricycle !

If you're proud about something your country or nation excels at , be my guest . If you favor a disbeliever from your nation over a Muslim from another - and kill your brother\sister too - then you don't equal a shoe .

11_ they seem to think that christianity is the only religuion out there and that god is an old wizard lol
I think it would be more accurate to say that becaue they rejected Christianity , they think with their ignorance that EVERY religion is exactly the same . And what's worse is that they talk as they know while they are - mostly - more ignorant than their shoes when it comes to Islam and maybe to Christianity itself .

12- they seem to think that adam and eve were white and they were in naked in the garden
Adam who ? Eve who ? Are they your pals at school ? Again , we should address the prophets of Allah saying peace upon them . It's really irritating when you address a disbeliever - even the filthy foul mouthed ones - with "Sir" and "Mr" while you're too lazy to write "Peace upon him" and instead write it in short as "PBUH" .
Aside from that , this is the story of the Bible and I wouldn't dare say an opinion without a sign from Quran or Sunnah .

14- they seem to be mostly americans, wich explains many things about them.
Wat ? No seriously , there are Atheists - with all their sects - around the whole world . Their percentage differs though from place to place . But yeah , there seems to be something else about the American ones .

16- they seem to think that godless states have no crimes but they forget that the entire islamic world has no crimes too
Every place on the world has bad people who do bad things . Still , the Islamic world - even though there isn't a single country ruling with full Sharia - has the least of them in any field . And please , before someone rants about what's happening in Iraq , Egypt , and other such countries . They either raise in crimes AFTER a bloody invading country invades , raise because of secular ways and materialism , or because the governemnt - like Egypt - is a slave dog of the Jews of Israel and USA . That bastard C.C said he gives daily reports to the white house ON NEWS . And whoever tries to deny that Islamic countries are the least in negative statics is in for embarrassment as a quick Google search can prove it .

17- they seem to think that if we find aliens then all religions will be destroyed, christianity might be.
Organic non intelligent life forms were found as I heard . And let's suppose we do find them , where did they come from ? And whoever tries to throw the farce of evolution through "accidents" is telling a lame joke .

19- they seem to think that the carsent moon with the star is the symbol of islam and they try to say that this is an ancient pagan symbol lol.
Whoever thinks that the moon is the symbol of Islam - even if Muslim - is ignorant . Aside from the whole thing of Ottomans - see the flag of Turkey - have not these people read this sign at all ? :
Fussilat 37 : And of His signs are the night and day and the sun and moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or to the moon, but prostate to Allah , who created them, if it should be Him that you worship.

21- they think that scince belongs to them
And they even worship it . When I told someone that science can only explain "how" material things work and that it can't go beyond that to explain the mind , soul , and emotions , he said "Yes it is , and researches are still going" ! It's actually sickening ! They keep ranting about science and research and believe that this "Research" can NEVER go wrong or be used for personal gain even though history testifies .
Science is a fragment of "Konwledge" . Knowledge is NOT a fragment of science . If you try to explain to your wife why you bought her flowers in "sin and cos" you'll get a quick slap on the face .

22- they seem to love every none abrahamic religion.
Because their reason to reject religion is the bad idea they have about Christianity and Judaism . But if it's about worshiping animals or people or even saying that God is creation and creation is God , then they are welcomed to them !

23- they seem to think that god is like zeus or whatever
If only I had a dollar whenever someone says "If we agree that there is a God , which one is it ? Odin , Zeus , or Buddha ?" I would have been a billionair by now (Of course that's sarcasm) . They're so ignorant as to think that in Islam , Allah is a guy sitting on a chair in the sky , chooses people with hideous crimes as prophets - Source : Bible - and seemingly tires and rests and eat food .

24- they try to destroy religion by telling the fantasy tale of the tower of babylon, but they dont know that tale is in the bible only.
Babylon what ?

28-they love sci fi
You don't say ! Aleins , time travel , multiple universes , and cloning - which fails miseraly so far - .

" only animals dont have religions and thats a fact"
Not . Everything praises Allah even if we don't understand them .

I know you mean me , and I'm too tired to start it over again . So no .

Yes it is compulsory to read Quran in Arabic wither it's in prayer or outside of it . Whoever reads it in other than Arabic isn't making an accepted form of prayer . It is OK though to explain it in other languages and making translations .

Sometimes it is best to leave those who are disbelievers in the Quran alone.
It ends here . All this time , I didn't dare call you a disbeliever even though you reject the orders of the prophet because I know calling a Muslim so is not easy and not everyone should do . But now , YOU did it . So I ask Allah that it returns to you and takes you out of Islam .

Wither you're convinced or not is your own problem . The people of Sunnah and band (Ahl Assunah Wa Al-Jama'a) believe in the noble Quran as their first source of revelation , believing in it , they follow its orders to obey the other kind of revelation to the prophet peace upon him from Allah Almighty . And it harms nobody when anyone refuses this .

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