Author Topic: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ  (Read 29195 times)

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Offline brian464

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2016, 12:36:13 AM »

 Jesus's flesh were made from the substance inside the womb of Mary 

Can you quote the Koran talking about the  "substance" inside Mary becoming flesh (Jesus )

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2016, 05:40:12 AM »
Quote
Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was. (3:59)

When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic  (5:110)


Holy Spirit never become flesh for Adam nor Jesus. They were fashioned by God with substance. And later the command Be! was said by God for them to be alive.

Also base on your belief, after Holy Spirit becomes the flesh??, Word of God needs to enter the flesh to complete the combination of two entities to form a human called Jesus??



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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2016, 12:43:36 PM »
Son of Mary means Mary gave birth to a son.  Hence her biological son is Jesus.
So son of Mary means biological son ? even though Jesus did not share any DNA with Mary ?

Other Christians are trying hard to convince that Jesus is the messiah being the biological offspring of David. Yet you go off the mainstream belief of Christianity by saying Jesus is of a foreign lineage that  Holy Spirit forming a foreign flesh and not from the substance of Mary.

Offline brian464

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2016, 03:12:25 PM »
from the substance of Mary.

Adam was formed from dust but Jesus was not formed from any substance of Mary, according to the Quran, right?

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2016, 01:39:47 AM »
Quran mention the exemple of Jesus is like Adam. So since Jesus was inside the womb, his flesh was fashioned thru not dust, but substances inside Mary.

Also you seemed to disagree with the idea that Messiah came from the biolgical offspring of David as other Christians have believed.

Offline brian464

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2016, 08:19:24 AM »
substances inside Mary

Can you quote the Quran regarding the "substances" inside Mary that formed Jesus ? or

 was it just the Spirit of God that be (came ) Jesus

Offline brian464

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2016, 08:48:30 AM »
Quran mention the exemple of Jesus is like Adam.

In addition to my comment above, the Quran uses the word "be" to indicate Adam's creation but when it comes to Jesus, the word "be" seems to be different since it involves the Spirit of God "be" (coming) Jesus in Mary's womb

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2016, 09:34:49 AM »
Both involves the breathing of spirit into flesh.
The Holy Spirit is given the duty to transmit spirit into the body of Adam and Jesus so they become alive.

~~~

It has been quoted above on the verses about the fashioning of flesh.
 And since you claimed that Spirit of God becomes Jesus. You disagree with other Christians about the Jesus being the biological offspring of David?

Offline brian464

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2016, 05:45:29 AM »
You disagree with other Christians about the Jesus being the biological offspring of David?

Both the Quran and Bible do not say that Jesus is God's biological son (Son of God ) or that Jesus came from Mary's egg (son of Mary ) or that Jesus was  David's biological son, from David's sperm (son of David) , so  biological offspring from either God, David or Mary is not what the Koran or the Bible is saying

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2016, 07:18:16 AM »
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“No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.”
(John 1:18)

Beget literally means to bring a child into the world by means of reproduction. If this is not the meaning of this verse, then the original texts should have been translated better, which leads to the problem of whether the Greek version of the Bible is correct or the English one.

Your assertion that the Qur'an does not call Jesus the "son of Mary" is amazing. The Qur'an at-least 23 times literally calls Jesus "son of Mary".
Source: http://search-the-quran.com/search/son%20of%20Mary

Imagine a mother, pointing towards her son, repeats herself 23 times, that "this is her son, that this is her son" and so on, and some guy tells the people that: No, by "son" she did not mean "son", she meant something completely different. Can you see how incorrect this logic is?
Exactly what does the Qur'an need to say that you will accept the fact that the Qur'an claims Jesus to be the "son of Mary"?

It is pretty much a complete waste of time replying to you, if you are going to make such obviously faulty assertions.

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #55 on: March 21, 2016, 11:14:19 AM »
Both the Quran and Bible do not say that Jesus is God's biological son (Son of God ) or that Jesus came from Mary's egg (son of Mary ) or that Jesus was  David's biological son, from David's sperm (son of David) , so  biological offspring from either God, David or Mary is not what the Koran or the Bible is saying

Are you sure?

Quote
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. (Matt 1:!8)

Christians say Holy Ghost did something to the egg's of Mary. Some say impregnate. Some say Holy Ghost alter the egg's state to be able to reproduce without semen.
The reason they say this is to fulfill the prophecy that Messiah came from biological offspring of David.

Offline brian464

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #56 on: March 21, 2016, 11:18:16 AM »
Your assertion that the Qur'an does not call Jesus the "son of Mary" is amazing.

I did not say that the Quran does not call Jesus, son of Mary. What I said is

 that Jesus being the biological son of Mary ( from Mary's egg ) is not what the Quran is saying when Jesus is called son of Mary, similar to

the bible is saying Jesus is the Son of God, does not mean Jesus is the biological son of God

Offline brian464

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2016, 11:33:13 AM »
Christians say Holy Ghost did something to the egg's of Mary.

Does the Quran say anything about Mary's egg or was only the Spirit of God involved without any interaction with the egg ?

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2016, 11:52:49 AM »
I did not say that the Quran does not call Jesus, son of Mary. What I said is

 that Jesus being the biological son of Mary ( from Mary's egg ) is not what the Quran is saying when Jesus is called son of Mary, similar to

the bible is saying Jesus is the Son of God, does not mean Jesus is the biological son of God

 The reason you cant accept this is because your philosophy interpreted that Holy Spirit becomes the flesh of Jesus which is not supported in any scripture. And Christian's interpreted that Holy Spirit alter/touch the egg's of Mary.

~~~

Quran mentioned clearly that Jesus is the biological son of Mary.

Quote
And when she was delivered she said: My Lord! Lo! I am delivered of a female - Allah knew best of what she was delivered - the male is not as the female; and lo! I have named her Mary, and lo! I crave Thy protection for her and for her offspring from Satan the outcast. 3:36

Offline brian464

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Re: Why the Koran is not against the pre-conception Divinity of Christ
« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2016, 05:48:49 AM »
her (Mary) and for her offspring
[/quote]

If Jesus was the offspring of Mary,where did the sperm come from ? the Spirit of God could not have provided the sperm, right ?