Author Topic: Proof Isa (as) was used in Aramaic-Hebrew, from Iranaeus  (Read 2097 times)

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Offline al-Ghazali

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Proof Isa (as) was used in Aramaic-Hebrew, from Iranaeus
« on: September 21, 2017, 06:39:34 PM »

It has just been learned by me while researching Iranaeus statement that "Jesus" was almost 50, which can't be refuted, he said it clearly in "Against Heresies" book 2.22.

As fascinating as that is, he claims 2 or 3 chapters later that "Jesus", in Hebrew, consists of "2 1/2 letters."

Those letters are supplied in the footnotes as Yod, Sod, (or Shin, I am uncertain) and Aleph, giving us, "Ysa" or YShA, which is used in the Dead Sea Scrolls fragment, "Sons of Salvation", a translation of Yesha, although I am unlearned in Hebrew, I am pretty sure it is Shin because YShA is 3 (2 1/2?) letters, and Iranaeus and every scholar said/says Jesus means "Soter" or Saviour in Greek/English, though it's "salvation", in Hebrew, not saviour.

"My eyes have seen salvation", Yesha, is what is said at the birth of Isa (as), in the Bible.

Granted Iranaeus isn't a great source for reliability, I do not believe he would be ignorant enough to NOT know, at the very least, the Hebrew name of "Jesus."

Also it's supplied by the translator as Iranaeus doesn't actually give the letters, so it is testimony from a recent scholar who translated it for the Ante Nicene Fathers series, vol. 1.

I am uncertain if anyone has ever used this in refutation of the claim that "Isa" is an erroneous rendering of the truly erroneous "Jesus", but it is proof that even Catholic scholars know it was a 3 letter name, and they say it is Ysa or YShA, and like many words rendered in Arabic the Hebrew H is dropped (Ishmael is Ismail, to give an example, or the English, modern Hebrew Shem being Sem).

Yod is render an I in English so transliterate YShA from Hebrew to English is either Isha or YShA, which is in Arabic rendered Isa, pronounced "Issa" or "Eesa."(as)

So next time anyone tells you that Issa (as) is improper or derived from Esau (ridiculous as it is people make the claim), show them Iranaeus "Against Heresies ", book 2, chapter 24 or 25, where it says that in Hebrew the true name of Jesus (as) is YShA, a the footnote which supplies the actual Hebrew letters.

I will post a link I just got excited as I feel like finding this in a second century Church father's writings is exciting, although it might not seem like a big deal some people actually believe that "Jesus" (as) is the proper name for Issa, and that Yeshua was his Hebrew name, Joshua in English as the old Testament attests with Joshua bar Nun (as), Yeshua, which IS NOT the name he was given either, Yesu is the Aramaic/Syriac form, but according to Catholic scholars and Iranaeus in Hebrew it is 2 1/2 letters (3 letters), and Yod, Shin, Aleph, are the letters, YShA.

I will be back with a link to the actual chapter in A.H. be Iranaeus.

Most importantly is that it is not Islam who uses an illegitimate name for our Messiah, Catholic scholars confirm this, with Iranaeus statement, as are people who use Yeshua the old Testament Prophet and warrior, Yeshua bar Nun' s Hebrew-Aramaic name, are just as incorrect, he was NOT named the Hebrew equivalent of Joshua and had, like Yahya, a name given no one before him.

Hilarious side note, Christian's like to call Yahya "John", and say "How can the Qur'an say no one had this name before Johann the Immerser when you have John Hyrcanus?"

Because his name isn't Yohann or John, in Greek it's Ioannes because they wanted to esoterically have his name similar to the god Oannes, because both are related to water, and the Catholic Church still wears the fish hat to resemble the half fish, half godman who came from the water to teach the Phoenicians and whoever else. Freud wrote about this, noted the same thing I noticed, I found out after Googling "Ioanne Oannes", it's in one of his books.

But as the Qur'an says no one else had this name, so does the New Testament doesn't, making Christians look very foolish for not noticing it.

Luke 1:60 (NRSV) "But his mother said, 'No, he is to be called John.' 61 They said to her, none of your relatives have this name."

I do believe, with testimony from Tatian's Diatessaron, that relatives is meant to mean all the Israelites, as 1:62 says, "There is no man of your kindred that is called by this name."

Both are equivalent to what the Qur'an says, but because the name Yahya isn't used in the Greek translation they don't realize what they are criticizing is in their own Gospel of Luke, think it refers to her immediately family because of how it's translated, and that the Aramaic(Mandaic) name used by the Mandaeans, whose priests are called Nazarenes, and their major Prophet John the Baptist is called "Yahya", and that this sect is as old as Christianity, nay, older if you go back to Yahya, but attested to in the writings of Epiphanius, and in the Greek Homilies of Clement, (4th century MS., 1st century book about Simon Peter (as) that even has Simon Magus succeed to the head of Yahya's Nazarenes,  which makes a great explanation for their beliefs in a Demiurge, that isn't God, but a lesser being that created the world, which is exactly what Simon Magus state's in Homilies and Recognitions of Clement, whose MSS. are 4th century and the Syriac actually is the oldest dated MSS. in the world at 411 AD.

Regardless, the Ginza Rabba, holy book of the Mandaeans, who use Aramaic liturgically, calls him Yahya, so it's not an Arabic word, and as usual corrects the errors of the Bible, which makes Christians blame the Qur'an out of a lack of knowledge.

Offline al-Ghazali

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Re: Proof Isa (as) was used in Aramaic-Hebrew, from Iranaeus
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2017, 07:15:53 PM »
 www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/001/0010754.htm

This is the chapter where he gives the proof, and the actual Hebrew letters, proving  "Isa" is correct as a translation and almost identical to "YSha" where as "Jesus" (sa) is a corrupt bowlderization of the Syriac/Aramaic "Yesu" (sa), or "Yesha", meaning "salvation", and not, as some love to believe, "Savior" or worse,  "Yah saves."

It's rather easy to see how YShA becomes Issa in Arabic, but who can explain why it became Jesus without admitting that it isn't his name in reality, that a Semitic language like Arabic is more genuine and a correct "translation" for the Hebrew/Aramaic Yahya, proven by Iranaeus to be his original name?

Offline al-Ghazali

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Re: Proof Isa (as) was used in Aramaic-Hebrew, from Iranaeus
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2017, 07:27:45 PM »
www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/001/0010754.htm

This is the chapter where he gives the proof, and the actual Hebrew letters, proving  "Isa" is correct as a translation and almost identical to "YSha" where as "Jesus" (sa) is a corrupt bowlderization of the Syriac/Aramaic "Yesu" (sa), or "Yesha", meaning "salvation", and not, as some love to believe, "Savior" or worse,  "Yah saves."

It's rather easy to see how YShA becomes Issa in Arabic, but who can explain why it became Jesus without admitting that it isn't his name in reality, that a Semitic language like Arabic is more genuine and a correct "translation" for the Hebrew/Aramaic YShA proven by Iranaeus to be his original name?

Offline al-Ghazali

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Re: Proof Isa (as) was used in Aramaic-Hebrew, from Iranaeus
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2017, 07:07:22 PM »


In case anyone is still interested I have refined my knowledge of the situation of the 3 letter name of Isa, stated by Iranaeus to be the case with the Hebrew name of "Jesus."

Salvation or Soter in Greek is stated to be a synonym for the Hebrew word for salvation, which is easily confirmed to be "Yesha" a transliteration of the 3 letters Yod-Shin-Ayin, and this is because vowels were introduced, without we have Sin and there is literally no confirming how it was pronounced.

Further Iranaeus state's it was made an acronym for "Salvation, Heaven, earth, in Hebrew, which are Ysa, Samayin, Ara/Adam as depending on the sense.

Either way we end up with  Ysa, and as Ysrael, Elohym  Yshmael, all employ the Tod to make the soft i sound in "Issa."

Iranaeus give the words "Sura Usser" for Heaven and earth, a mystery no on has solved but I can guess he got some bad info from someone familiar with the derogatory acronym Jesu, in Aramaic a name specific to Jesus even in Talmud and Toledot Yeshu.

Adding a Vav to Isa seems to be the work of someone ignorant of this insult and it was incorporated into the Syriac language early on, maybe from Iranaeus.

Today Yesua is used, I'm going to guess they figured out Yeshu was a curse on their god-man, but for the English language the damage is permanent, even the trend to re Judaize Jesus as Yeshua is erroneous, but you will never tell that crowd anything because they are "real" Christians using the "true" name...

Of Yeshua bar Nun.  Not Ysa, for, if all they did was read the book Against Heresies book 2 chapter 24, they'd have the knowledge that 3 letters spelled the Hebrew name Ysa, 100 years after his death, and if Iranaeus had only used the proper words for Heaven and earth, he'd have had the RIGHT letter name, but he does know the definition is Salvation, and we know that is Ysa, which also serves as the PROPER acronym he was trying to make.

It is far greater to wonder how, when nobody was using the provable as accurate term Ysa anymore, the actual name of "Yesu", that is, Isa (as),not even in Arabia by Arab Christians, did the Messenger of Allah (saw) ressurect what otherwise would have been lost, was...

Until an angel named Gabriel paid a visit to settle this affair as the Will of Allah decided necessary...

And the rest....

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Proof Isa (as) was used in Aramaic-Hebrew, from Iranaeus
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 03:16:47 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Al-Ghazali,

Jazaka Allah Khayr for the great posts.  Indeed very good find, akhi.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah