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Response to Jochen Katz: ”The Qur’an, Muhammad and the seven earths”

By Mahir

 

Article found at: http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/seven_earths.html

 

Katz text will be in PINK!

Mine in black!

 

Jochen Katz wrote:

Qur'an & Science Problem:

The Seven Earths

Their Existence and their Location


It may come as a surprise to some of our readers to find that the Qur'an teaches that Allah created seven earths.

"It is Allah Who has created seven heavens, and earths as many ..." S. 65:12, F. Malik's translation

What should we understand these seven earths to be? Earth in the sense of a land mass, i.e. seven continents located on our one planet earth? Other planets similar to our earth? Before we can evaluate whether this Quranic statement is true, i.e. decide about its scientific correctness, we need to clarify the exact understanding of these ‘seven earths’, particularly how Muhammad understood them. The teaching on the seven earths is found in the early Islamic data, the ahadith and commentaries on the Qur'an.

 

My response:

It indeed comes as a surprise, the readers will know why it’s a surprise later in this article!

As for “What should we understand these seven earths to be? Earth in the sense of a land mass, i.e. seven continents located on our one planet earth?Actually no, that’s wrong because this is disproven by various Hadiths, I actually found out about it in Ibn Kathirs tafsir (May Allah be pleased with him) when I my self wanted to know about Noble verse 65:12 but we will discuss this later in the article!

As for “Other planets similar to our earth?” Indeed there are 7 round earths and 7 layers of our earth, this will be discussed in this article as well!

 

Katz wrote:

Evidence from the Ahadith

Sahih Al-Bukhari

Narrated Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Al-Harith:

from Abu Salama bin 'Abdur-Rahman who had a dispute with some people on a piece of land, and so he went to 'Aisha and told her about it. She said, "O Abu Salama, avoid the land, for Allah's Apostle said, ‘Any person who takes even a span of land unjustly, his neck shall be encircled with it down seven earths.’" (Volume 4, Book 54, Number 417; see also Numbers 418, 420; Volume 3, Book 43, Numbers 632-634)

 

My response:

As for “encircled with it down seven earths

 

Explanation given in www.55a.net:

“Pondering on the Hadith (sayings) of Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), we’ll find one that asserts the existence of the seven layers of the earth concentric and one above the other. The prophet (PBUH) said: (Whoever usurps even one span of the land, his neck will be encircled because of it with seven earths) [narrated by Al Bukhari]. Here the prophet gave another characteristic of the layers, encirclement, by saying (will be encircled with it) and this is how the layers truly look like, they are concentric and each one encircles the one underneath it.”

 

 

Katz wrote:

Narrated 'Abdullah:

A (Jewish) Rabbi came to Allah's Apostle and he said, "O Muhammad! We learn that Allah will put all the heavens on one finger, and the earths on one finger, and the trees on one finger, and the water and the dust on one finger, and all the other created beings on one finger. Then He will say, ‘I am the King.’" Thereupon the Prophet smiled so that his pre-molar teeth became visible, and that was the confirmation of the Rabbi. Then Allah's Apostle recited: ‘No just estimate have they made of Allah such as due to Him.’ (39.67) (Volume 6, Book 60, Number 335)

 

My Response:

I have no problem in believing that there are 7 earths in our space, but I KNOW that there are 7 layers beneath us also!

You see, this is what the Rabbi’s believed, and Muhammad (pbuh) had no problem with this because Allah (Subhana) stated something similar, Allah said that he will grab the entire earth with his hand:

Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 76 :: Hadith 526

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Allah will take the whole earth (in His Hand) and will roll up the Heaven in His right Hand, and then He will say, "I am King! Where are the kings of the earth? "

Same message is repeated in (Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 336) but in this hadith it is said that Allah will “HOLD THE WHOLE EARTH” (Note: Not earths) But this doesn’t mean that there only is one earth, there are indeed 7 earths in our space and this will be discussed in this article later!

Second of all, Katz didn’t show you this hadith where my point is proven:

Muslim :: Book 39 : Hadith 6699

Abdullah b. Mas'ud reported that a Jew scholar came to Allah's Apostle (may peace he upon him) and said. Muhammad, or Abu al-Qasim, verify, Allah, the Exalted and Glorious. would carry the Heavens on the Day of Judgment upon one finger and earths upon one finger and the mountains and trees upon one finger and the ocean and moist earth upon one finger-in fact the whole of the creation upon one finger, and then He would stir them and say: I am your Lord, I am your Lord. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled testifying what that scholar had said. He then recited this verse:

" And they honour not Allah with the honour due to Him; and the whole earth will be in His grip on the Day of Resurrection and the heaven rolled up in His right hand. Glory be to Him I and highly Exalted is He above what they associate (with Him)" (xxxix. 67).

End of hadith.

Muhammad (pbuh) simply smiled at the Jewish scholar and then recited a verse where Allah said that he will hold the entire EARTH in his hand and the heaven in the right hand, there are small differences regarding these hadith such as; that Allah (The Holy, The Almighty, The Giver Of Mercy) will hold other earths on his finger or only hold our earth in his hand and so on. There is no problem in believing in all of these hadiths because we do NOT know how Allah’s hands or fingers look like, and it is known that both of Allah’s hands are right handed (I.e the other hand is not weaker like our hands) but the points to note here are:

1.   There exist 7 earths in space

2.   There exist 7 layers on OUR earth

This will be proven by me in this article Insha’Allah!

Katz probably knew about this but wanted to fool his readers!

 

Katz wrote:

Sahih Muslim

Muhammad b. Ibrahim said that Abu Salama reported to him that there was between him and his people dispute over a piece of land, and he came to 'A'isha and mentioned that to her, whereupon she said: Abu Salama, abstain from getting this land, for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: He who usurps even a span of land would be made to wear around his neck seven earths. (Book 010, Number 3925; see also Numbers 3920-3924)

 

My response:

And with this hadith he is trying to prove….?

As I said, There are 7 earths in space according to Islam, but also 7 layers beneath us as well (This will be proven with some hadiths)

Round earth’s can be carried around the neck if you are big enough, and Allah (The All Mighty) is able to make us larger then the earth on the judgment day if he so wills. Compare this hadith with necklaces women carried at that time, they usually carried pear necklaces, and pearls are round, I ask YOU Katz how does one carry flat earths around his neck? Wouldn’t it be better to assume that they will carry round earths because people DO INDEED WEAR ROUND THINGS around their necks?

 

Katz wrote:

Al-Tirmidhi

Narrated AbuHurayrah

While Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions were sitting clouds came over them and Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) asked, "Do you know what these are?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger knew best, he said, "These are the clouds (anan), these are the water-carriers of the Earth, which Allah drives to people who do not thank Him or call upon him." He then asked, "Do you know what is above you?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "It is the firmament, a ceiling which is guarded and waves which are kept back." He then asked, "Do you know what is between you and it?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Between you and it are five hundred years." He then asked, "Do you knew what is above that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) best he said, "Two heavens with a distance of five hundred years between them." He went on speaking like that till he counted seven heavens, the distance between each pair being like between Heaven and Earth. He then asked, "Do you know what is above that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Above that is the Throne, and the distance between it and the (seventh) heaven is the same as that between each pair of heavens." He then asked, "Do you know what is below you?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "It is the earth." He then asked, "Do you know what is under that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Under it there is another Earth with a journey of five hundred years between them," and so on till he had counted seven earths with a journey of five hundred years between each pair. He then said, "By Him in Whose hand Muhammad's soul is, if you were to drop a rope to the lowest earth it would not pass out of Allah's knowledge." He then recited, "He is the First and the Last, the Outward and the Inward, and He is omniscient." (Tirmidhi commented that Allah's Messenger's recitation of the verse indicates that it would go down within Allah's knowledge, power and authority, for Allah's knowledge, power and authority are everywhere, while He is on the Throne, as He described Himself in His Book.)

Ahmad and Tirmidhi transmitted it. (Number 1513- taken from the ALIM CD-ROM Version)

 

My response:

Katz fails to give us a reference to this hadith, so I went to my Authentic Hadith searcher program and typed in some words, such as “Earth, five hundred, lowest, below, above” and I didn’t find the hadith Katz provided above! So it is probably not an authentic hadith Katz is providing.

Even if this hadith indeed is authentic, it proves nothing except that there exists 7 earths in our universe and that it takes 500 years to travel from one earth to another!

As I said, it is probably not authentic because it doesn’t exists in my Saheeh searcher!

I would like Katz to give me a source to check.

 

Katz wrote:

Narrated Ubayy ibn Ka'b

In regard to the words of Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, "Your Lord brought forth their offspring from the loins of the children of Adam." (7:172) Ubayy said: He gathered them and paired them then fashioned them and endowed them with the power of speech and they began to speak. He then made an agreement and covenant with them. He made them bear witness about themselves (saying) Am I not your Lord. They said: Yes. He said: I call to witness seven heavens and seven earths regarding you...

Transmitted by Ahmad. (Number 41- taken from the ALIM CD-ROM Version)

 

My response:

I see no reference to his hadiths, but even if this Hadith is Saheeh (Authentic) I absolutely have no problem in believing that there exist seven earths and seven universes.

This can’t be disproven or proven!

I will give a total explanation regarding these earths, spaces, layers of earth, and so on later in this article Insh’Allah!

 

Katz wrote:

Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said that Moses asked his Lord to teach him something with which to make mention of Him or to supplicate Him, and was told to say, "There is no god but Allah." He replied to his Lord that all His servants said this, but he wanted something particularly for himself, and He said, "Moses, were the seven heavens and their inhabitants, apart from me, and the seven earths put on one side of a balance and ‘There is no god but Allah’ on the other, ‘There is no god but Allah’ would outweigh them."

It is transmitted in Sharh as-Sunnah. (Number 731- taken from the ALIM CD-ROM Version)

 

My response:

Same response as the response above, I have no problem in believing that there exists 7 earths in our space, this can’t be disproven or proven!

Katz find’s it awfully hard believing that there exists 7 earth-like planets in our universe, but he doesn’t seem to find it hard to believe in this:

1 Samuel 2:8 "The pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them."

1 Chronicles 16:30 "The earth ... shall be stable, that it be not moved."

REV 6:13 "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth.."

Katz need’s to do some homework, he complains about other religions yet his own religion is the worst one regarding science!

Katz writes, and exposes himself:

Narrated Ya'la ibn Murrah

Ya'la told of hearing Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) say, "If anyone wrongly takes a span of land, Allah, Who is Great and Glorious, will make him dig it till he gets to the end of seven earths, and then he will have it tied round his neck till the Day of Resurrection when men are judged."

Ahmad transmitted it. (Number 885- taken from the ALIM CD-ROM Version)

 

My response:

Yes, here we have it, what took you so long Mr. KatZ?

You see, this hadith proves that our earth got seven ARDS (Which literally means earth, land, layer and so on) because, the one that wrongly takes a span of land; Allah The Greatest and Glorious will make HIM DIG UNTIL HE COMES TO THE SEVENTH ARD. One may ask; "how will this man survive the heat of the inner ARDS?" Well, isn’t Allah the All Mighty and All Powerful? Off course, Allah can make his skin come back every time it melts:

[Noble Qur’an 4: 56] “Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for God is Exalted in Power, Wise.”

So now we know that there exist 7 layers, and 7 earths in our space according to ahadith!

I actually didn’t know this hadith exists, I hope it is authentic, due to Katz lack of providing the references I won’t know until I come across it! I would like Mr. Katz to provide the reference inshAllah? Thanks in advance!

(There exists another hadith saying that a man will SINK down the 7 ards, but this hadith above proves my point better)

 

Katz wrote:

Fiqh-us-Sunna

... Ata ibn abi Marwan states from his father that Ka'b took an oath by the One who opened up the sea for Moses that Suhaib related to him that whenever the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alehi wasallam saw a city which he wished to enter, he would say: "O Allah, Lord of the seven heavens and what they shade, Lord of the seven earths and what they carry, Lord of the satans and those that they misguide, Lord of the winds and what they blow away, I ask of You for the good of this city and the good of its inhabitants and the good of what is in it. I seek refuge in You from its evil and the evil of its inhabitants and the evil of what is in it." This is related by an-Nasa'i, ibn Hibban, and al-Hakim who calls it sahih ... (Volume 2, Number 119b- taken from the ALIM CD-ROM Version)

... Khalid b. Walid reported that once he suffered from insomnia. The Prophet, peace be upon him, said to him, "Shall I teach you words that will make you go to sleep when you say them? Say, ‘O Allah, the Lord of the seven heavens and whatever they cover, Lord of the earths and whatever they contain, Creator of devils and whomever they mislead, be my protector from the evil of all Your creatures lest some of them may hasten with insolence against me or transgress the bounds. Honored is he who is in Your protection and blessed be Your name, there is no god except You’." (Reported by At-Tabrani in his Al-Kahir and Al-Awsat. Its chain is sound, although Abdur-Rahman did not hear it from Khalid. Al-Hafiz al-Mundhari has mentioned it)… (Volume 4, Number 122- taken from the ALIM CD-ROM Version)

 

My response:

I have no problem in believing that there exists seven earth-like planets in space, and I have no problem in believing that there exists 7 universes, actually, this theory is called MULTIVERSE (I.e. from universe to multiverse), Muslims are not the only people believing in the notion of other universes. Check out this source:

They even made it into seven Universes called “Mutliverse”: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Multiverse_-_level_II.svg

 

Quote from the source:

“English: Level II Multiverse, Every disk is a bubble universe (Universe 1 to Universe 6 are different bubbles, they have physical constants that are different from our universe), our universe is just one of the bubbles.”

 

As for believing in other Earth-like planets, almost all scientists believe in this, so Katz is a little confused, not Muslims!

 

 

Katz wrote:

Evidence from Early Muslim Historians and Commentators

Tafsir Ibn Abbas

(Allah it is Who hath created seven heavens) one above the other like a dome, (and of the earth the like thereof) seven earths BUT THEY ARE FLAT. (The commandment cometh down among them slowly) He says: He sends the angels down from heaven with revelation, Scripture and calamities, (that ye may know) and acknowledge (that Allah is Able to do all things) relating to the dwellers of the heavens and the earths, (and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge) and that His knowledge encompasses everything.' (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn 'Abbâs; online source; bold, underline and capital emphasis ours)

 

Al-Tabari

According to Muhammad b. Sahl b. 'Askar-Isma'il b. 'Abd al-Karim-Wahb, mentioning some of his majesty (as being described as follows): The heavens and the earth and the oceans are in the haykal, and the haykal is in the Footstool. God's feet are upon the Footstool. He carries the Footstool. It became like a sandal on His feet. When Wahb was asked: What is the haykal? He replied: Something on the heavens' extremities that surrounds the earth and the oceans like ropes that are used to fasten a tent. And when Wahb was asked how earths are (constituted), he replied: They are seven earths that are FLAT and islands. Between each two earths, there is an ocean. All that is surrounded by the (surrounding) ocean, and the haykal is behind the ocean. (History of Al-Tabari-General Introduction and From the Creation to the Flood, Volume 1, trans. Franz Rosenthal [State University of New York Press, Albany 1989], pp. 207-208)

 

My response:

What Ibn Abbas and Al Tabari (May Allah shower his mercy upon them and be pleased with them) thought regarding science doesn’t matter, their opinions are not valid proof, they were not scientists…Hello?

They didn’t know everything about science, so this is only their opinion because believing in a flat earth was common back then!!

Second of all, it is indeed funny that Katz has to provide a source where commentators say that the earth is flat, but lacks to provide a source where Muhammad (pbuh) says the earth is flat!

I can EASILY provide you Biblical commentators stating the most stupid things ever, but Katz would off course also reply “These are only mere opinions”, hypocrisy?

Katz can easily reply and object “Well Ibn Abbas is Muhammad’s (Pbuh) companion, wouldn’t he know better then a usual commentator?” NO, if indeed Muhammed (pbuh) were to tell Ibn Abbas (ra) about flat earths, IBN ABBAS WOULD CERTAINLY MAKE IT INTO A HADITH since everything they heard was written.

Ibn Abbas and Tabari clearly gave their OWN opinions without quoting hadiths, and this is because people back them believed that the earth is flat!

Third of all, since when are comments revelations?
 

Katz wrote:

Ibn Kathir

<and of the earth the like thereof.> means, He created seven earths. In the Two Sahihs, there is a Hadith that states ...

In the beginning of my book, Al-Bidayah wan-Nihayah, I mentioned the various narrations for this Hadith when I narrated the story of the creation of the earth. All the thanks and praise is due to Allah.

Those who explained this Hadith to mean the seven continents have brought an implausible explanation that contradicts the letter of the Qur’an and the Hadith without having proof. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged) Volume 10 (Surat At-Tagabun to the end of the Qur’an), abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Houston, New York, London, Lahore; first edition, September 2000], pp. 55-56; bold emphasis ours)

 

My response:

Mr. Katz, you have to give the entire saying of Ibn Kathir (May Allah shower his mercy upon him)!

Ibn Kathir simply objected to some people that were trying to prove that the 7 earths are the 7 continental plates, and this is not true due to the hadith that states that a man will sink down the 7 earths, so Ibn Kathir simply stated “contradicts the letter of the Qur’an and the Hadith without having any proof”, trying to disprove those whom believe that the 7 earths are the seven continents!

(They believed this because the word (Earth) “Ard” got several meanings)

If you don’t believe me, go to www.tafsir.com and find his comments for 65:12, Katz took Ibn Kathirs words out of context!

 

Katz wrote:

Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah al-Kisa'i

... There are seven earths. The first is called Ramaka, beneath which is the Barren Wind, which can be bridled by no fewer than seventy thousand angels. With this wind God destroyed the people of Ad. The inhabitants of Ramaka are a nation called Muwashshim, upon whom is everlasting torment and divine retribution. The second earth is called Khalada, wherein are the implements of torture for the inhabitants of Hell. There dwells a nation called Tamis, whose food is their own flesh and whose drink is their own blood. The third earth is called Arqa, wherein dwell mulelike eagles with spearlike tails. On each tail are three hundred and sixty poisonous quills. Were even one quill placed on the face of the earth, the entire universe would pass away. The inhabitants thereof are a nation called Qays, who eat dirt and drink mothers' milk. The fourth earth is called Haraba, wherein dwell the snakes of Hell, which are as large as mountains. Each snake has fangs like tall palm trees, and if they were to strike the hugest mountain with their fangs it would be leveled to the ground. The inhabitants of this earth are a nation called Jilla, and they have no eyes, hands or feet but have wings like bats and die only of old age. The fifth earth is called Maltham, wherein stones of sulphur hang around the necks of infidels. When the fire is kindled the fuel is placed on their breasts, and the flames leap up onto their faces, as He hath said: The fire whose fuel is men and stones (2:24), and Fire shall cover their faces (14:50). The inhabitants are a nation called Hajla, who are numerous and who eat each other. The sixth earth is called Sijjin. Here are the registers of the people of Hell, and their works are vile, as He hath said: Verily the register of the actions of the wicked is surely Sijjin (83:7). Herein dwells a nation called Qatat, who are shaped like birds and worship God truly. The seventh earth is called Ajiba and is the habitation of Iblis. There dwells a nation called Khasum, who are BLACK and short, with claws like lions. It is they who will be given dominion over Gog and Magog, who will be destroyed by them… (Tales of the Prophets-Qisas al-anbiya, trans. Wheeler M. Thackston Jr. [Great Books of the Islamic World, Inc., Distributed by Kazi Publications; Chicago, IL 1997], pp. 8-9)

 

My response:

I don’t even think this is a hadith, where is the source?

I couldn’t find it in any of the AUTHENTIC sources of Islam, so it is probably a fake hadith, BUT even IF it is authentic, what does it prove? That there exists 7 earths, WOW, Nasa today are looking for other Earth-like planets that contain life.

I recommend Katz to make some article’s trying to debunk Nasa also, since he believes it is so ridiculous to believe in several Earth-like planets!

 

Katz wrote:

Shaykh Al-Albani

The late renowned modern hadith scholar Al-Allamah Muhammad Nasir ud-Deen Al-Albani, after citing the following narration:

134 - "When death was approaching the Prophet of Allaah Nooh – sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam – he said to his son: I will narrate to you my bequest; I command you with two things and prohibit you from two things. I command you with 'La ilaha ‘illa Allaah' (‘There is none worthy of worship in truth except Allaah) if the seven heavens and the seven earths were placed upon a scale and 'La ilaha ‘illa Allaah' was placed on the other, then 'La ilaha ‘illa Allaah' would be heavier… Silsilah Saheehah: 134

Stated that:

4 - The seven earths are like the seven heavens. There are many Ahadeeth regarding this in Bukharee and Muslim and in other books. Perhaps one day we will have time to follow up these Ahadeeth and research them. What supports these Ahadeeth is the saying of Allaah Tabaraka wa Ta' aala : << It is Allaah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). >> I.e. they are similar in creation and in number.

So, you should not pay any attention to the one who explains it away, there by it ends up as a negation of similarity as well as in numbers, being deceived by the Europeans and where their knowledge has reached to, from having gone up in to space however they do not know of seven earths, along with that they do not know about seven heavens. Will we reject the speech of Allaah and the speech of His Messenger due to the ignorance of the Europeans and others along with them, declaring that the more they increase their knowledge of the universe, the more they increase in their ignorance of it. Allaah the Most Great has spoken the truth when He said : << And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little >> (Al-Albani, The Ahadeeth of Tawheed from the Silsilah Ahadeeth As-Saheehah; source; bold and underline emphasis ours)

 

My response:

Shaykh al Albany (May Allah be pleased with him and give him Jannah) simply encouraged people not to lose faith in that Allah created 7 earths and 7 universes, just because scientists have seen the earth and not 6 other earths doesn’t disprove Muhammad’s (pbuh) statement about 6 other earths!

Just because we can’t see these 7 earth’s doesn’t mean that they don’t exist!

I mean, did Katz even read what he posted? Or does he simply want his article to look larger?

 

Katz wrote:

The preceding citations demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that the first Muslims, Muhammad and his companions, believed that there were seven actual earths. In addition, these sources conclusively prove that Muhammad taught all these seven earths, including the earth we live on, to be flat, something like a continental plate, but not spherical like a globe. (For further data, see the article The Earth: Flat or Round?). It is quite evident that Muhammad was grossly mistaken here.

 

 

My response:

 

Please note what he wrote:

“..that Muhammad taught all these seven earths, including the earth we live on, to be flat,

I challenge Mr. Katz to show me where Muhammad (On whom be peace and blessings of Allah) taught that these earths are flat!!!

This is their stupid tactic: (No offence, but it’s utterly stupid) to provide some Hadiths talking about 7 earth’s (And 7 layers proven by some hadiths) and then provide some commentators whom had NO knowledge about the unseen at that time, and then claim;

“Muhammad taught that the earth is flat, “it is evident” ”

WHERE did Muhammed (pbuh) say what those commentators assumed?

I want QALA MUHAMMAD QALA ALLAH!!

(Which means; Muhammad said, Allah said)

 

Katz wrote:

One more important observation needs to be made about this issue:

"It is Allah Who has created seven heavens, and earths as many ..." F. Malik

"Allah it is Who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof ..." Pickthall

"Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number ..." Yusuf Ali

All these translations show that the emphasis of this verse is not the number of heavens and earths, the purpose of this ayah is clearly to answer the question: Who is the creator of the seven heavens and earths? That there are indeed seven heavens and seven earths is assumed. This is not new information. In the many ahadith quoted above, the fact that Muhammad specified the number of the heavens and the earths to be seven never evoked any surprise. It was the general understanding at the time, believed by many. In fact, in the second hadith quoted above, it is a Jewish Rabbi who comes to Muhammad and speaks of a plurality of heavens and a plurality of earths. The Qur'an only stresses, that the creator of them all is Allah, not any other of the many gods the Arabs still believed in at the time. He alone is the creator of all the earths, and therefore he alone has the power over all the earths. The rest of the ayah confirms this emphasis:

"Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number, through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends all things in (His) Knowledge." Yusuf Ali

 

 

My response:

I agree that the Jewish scholars knew about this, and the reason why they knew about this is because this was also revealed by Allah to the former nations and prophets (May Allah bless them and send peace upon them), you quickly forget everything you yourself post:

"When death was approaching the Prophet of Allaah Nooh – sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam – he said to his son: I will narrate to you my bequest; I command you with two things and prohibit you from two things. I command you with 'La ilaha ‘illa Allaah' (‘There is none worthy of worship in truth except Allaah) if the seven heavens and the seven earths were placed upon a scale and 'La ilaha ‘illa Allaah' was placed on the other, then 'La ilaha ‘illa Allaah' would be heavier… Silsilah Saheehah: 134”

This narration YOU provided proves that even prophet Nooh (Alaihi Salaam) knew about the 7 universes and earths, so it isn’t a strange fact that people knew about this because the former prophets taught this!

It was not a general understanding just because some Jewish scholars knew about it (Maybe some other people as well).

But the points to note here are:

1.   The former prophets taught their followers the same thing.

2.   It’s completely normal that some people knew about this (Because of point 1 above).

3.   It’s still a Qur’anic miracle, I will prove it below!

 

Katz wrote:

Conclusion

Taking into account all the early Islamic data presented above, is there any way to avoid the conclusion that the Quranic teaching about the universe as being structured in seven heavens and seven earths is merely a repetition of the beliefs and superstitions of the people of Muhammad's day? The ancient belief in seven earths is a major scientific error and this false understanding was not only explicitly taught by Muhammad but even included in the Qur'an as if being a scientific fact. This provides further evidence that Muhammad is not God's prophet, the Qur'an is not God's word and that the Allah of Islam is not the true God.

Jochen Katz

 

My turn to make Katz look stupid!

Ok finally, now I will provide all the info I promised to provide!

There indeed exists 7 earths in our space according to Islam, this can not be proven or disproven, but Jochen Katz wanted to prove that this is an error, I don’t know how, but it’s not. What I want to prove is that some of these hadiths refer to the seven layers of our earth and others hadiths talk about other earth-like planets.

The hadith:

Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 54 :: Hadith 418

Narrated Salim's father:

The Prophet said, "Any person who takes a piece of land unjustly will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection."

 

In other words, our earth got seven Ards (Layers) and the man that steals land will sink down these seven layers!

To prove this:

Article taken from: http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/inside.html

 

Inside the Earth

The size of the Earth -- about 12,750 kilometers (km) in diameter-was known by the ancient Greeks, but it was not until the turn of the 20th century that scientists determined that our planet is made up of three main layers: crust, mantle, and core. This layered structure can be compared to that of a boiled egg. The crust, the outermost layer, is rigid and very thin compared with the other two. Beneath the oceans, the crust varies little in thickness, generally extending only to about 5 km. The thickness of the crust beneath continents is much more variable but averages about 30 km; under large mountain ranges, such as the Alps or the Sierra Nevada, however, the base of the crust can be as deep as 100 km. Like the shell of an egg, the Earth's crust is brittle and can break.

Cutaway views showing the internal structure of the Earth. Below: This view drawn to scale demonstrates that the Earth's crust literally is only skin deep. Below right: A view not drawn to scale to show the Earth's three main layers (crust, mantle, and core) in more detail (see text).





Below the crust is the mantle, a dense, hot layer of semi-solid rock approximately 2,900 km thick. The mantle, which contains more iron, magnesium, and calcium than the crust, is hotter and denser because temperature and pressure inside the Earth increase with depth. As a comparison, the mantle might be thought of as the white of a boiled egg. At the center of the Earth lies the core, which is nearly twice as dense as the mantle because its composition is metallic (iron-nickel alloy) rather than stony. Unlike the yolk of an egg, however, the Earth's core is actually made up of two distinct parts: a 2,200 km-thick liquid outer core and a 1,250 km-thick solid inner core. As the Earth rotates, the liquid outer core spins, creating the Earth's magnetic field.

Not surprisingly, the Earth's internal structure influences plate tectonics. The upper part of the mantle is cooler and more rigid than the deep mantle; in many ways, it behaves like the overlying crust. Together they form a rigid layer of rock called the lithosphere (from lithos, Greek for stone). The lithosphere tends to be thinnest under the oceans and in volcanically active continental areas, such as the Western United States. Averaging at least 80 km in thickness over much of the Earth, the lithosphere has been broken up into the moving plates that contain the world's continents and oceans. Scientists believe that below the lithosphere is a relatively narrow, mobile zone in the mantle called the asthenosphere (from asthenes, Greek for weak). This zone is composed of hot, semi-solid material, which can soften and flow after being subjected to high temperature and pressure over geologic time. The rigid lithosphere is thought to "float" or move about on the slowly flowing asthenosphere.

END OF ARTICLE!

The Seven "Earths" refer to the layers that literally make up the Earth
crust
lithosphere
upper mantle
astenoshpere
lower mantle
outer core
inner core

Seven heavens may refer to the 7 ozone layers:
troposphere
stratosphere
ozone layer
mesosphere
thermosphere
ionosphere
exosphere

But the general and correct understanding is that these 7 heavens are universes, 1 which we know of and 6 other we don’t know of!

 

Please visit: The Earth is round according to Islam.

 

Also visit: The Bible claims that the earth is flat!

 

See also http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/earth/Inside.shtml

For more proof about the 7 layers of our earth!

 

Another article by islamreligion.com

 

Source: http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/299/

 

Studies in geology have proven that the earth is composed of seven zones, identified from the inner to the outer layers as follows:

(1)  The Solid Inner Core of Earth: 1.7% of the Earth’s mass; depth of 5,150 - 6,370 kilometers (3,219 - 3,981 miles)

The inner core is solid and unattached to the mantle, suspended in the molten outer core.  It is believed to have solidified as a result of pressure-freezing which occurs to most liquids when temperature decreases or pressure increases.

(2)  The Liquid Outer core: 30.8% of Earth’s mass; depth of 2,890 - 5,150 kilometers (1,806 - 3,219 miles)

The outer core is a hot, electrically conducting liquid within which convective motion occurs.  This conductive layer combines with Earth’s rotation to create a dynamo effect that maintains a system of electrical currents known as the Earth’s magnetic field.  It is also responsible for the subtle jerking of Earth’s rotation.  This layer is not as dense as pure molten iron, which indicates the presence of lighter elements.  Scientists suspect that about 10% of the layer is composed of sulfur and/or oxygen because these elements are abundant in the cosmos and dissolve readily in molten iron.

(3)  The “D” Layer: 3% of Earth’s mass; depth of 2,700 - 2,890 kilometers (1,688 - 1,806 miles)

This layer is 200 to 300 kilometers (125 to 188 miles) thick and represents about 4% of the mantle-crust mass.  Although it is often identified as part of the lower mantle, seismic discontinuities suggest the “D” layer might differ chemically from the lower mantle lying above it.  Scientists theorize that the material either dissolved in the core, or was able to sink through the mantle but not into the core because of its density.

(4)  Lower Mantle: 49.2% of Earth’s mass; depth of 650 - 2,890 kilometers (406 -1,806 miles)

The lower mantle contains 72.9% of the mantle-crust mass and is probably composed mainly of silicon, magnesium, and oxygen.  It probably also contains some iron, calcium, and aluminum.  Scientists make these deductions by assuming the Earth has a similar abundance and proportion of cosmic elements as found in the Sun and primitive meteorites.

(5)  Middle Mantle (Transition region): 7.5% of Earth’s mass; depth of 400 - 650 kilometers (250-406 miles)

The transition region or mesosphere (for middle mantle), sometimes called the fertile layer, contains 11.1% of the mantle-crust mass and is the source of basaltic magmas.  It also contains calcium, aluminum, and garnet, which is a complex aluminum-bearing silicate mineral.  This layer is dense when cold because of the garnet.  It is buoyant when hot because these minerals melt easily to form basalt which can then rise through the upper layers as magma.

(6)  Upper Mantle: 10.3% of Earth’s mass; depth of 10 - 400 kilometers (6 - 250 miles)

The upper mantle contains 15.3% of the mantle-crust mass.  Fragments have been excavated for our observation by eroded mountain belts and volcanic eruptions.  Olivine (Mg,Fe)2SiO4 and pyroxene (Mg,Fe)SiO3 have been the primary minerals found in this way.  These and other minerals are refractory and crystalline at high temperatures; therefore, most settle out of rising magma, either forming new material or never leaving the mantle.  Part of the upper mantle called the asthenosphere might be partially molten.

(7)  Lithosphere

Oceanic crust: 0.099% of Earth’s mass; depth of 0-10 kilometers (0 - 6 miles)

The rigid, outermost layer of the Earth comprising the crust and upper mantle is called the lithosphere.  The oceanic crust contains 0.147% of the mantle-crust mass.  The majority of the Earth’s crust was made through volcanic activity.  The oceanic ridge system, a 40,000-kilometer (25,000 mile) network of volcanoes, generates new oceanic crust at the rate of 17 km3 per year, covering the ocean floor with basalt.  Hawaii and Iceland are two examples of the accumulation of basalt piles.

Conclusion

The layers of the earth coincide with the above mentioned hadith of the Prophet.  The miracle is in two matters:

(1)  The expression of the hadith, ‘He will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection,’ indicates the stratification of these “earths” around one center.

(2)  The accuracy with which the Prophet of Islam referred to the seven inner layers of earth.

The only way for a desert dweller to have known these facts 1400 years ago is through revelation from God.

END OF ARTICLE

 

The point to note here is that Muhammad (On whom be peace and blessings of Allah) said that people who steal land will SINK DOWN THE SEVEN EARTHS, and these earths (Ards: Layers) are the seven layers of our earth!

If these earths are not the seven layers, how then can you SINK down to the 7th earth? And how can you DIG down these 7 earths? Wouldn’t you rather FALL also??

This hadith CLEARLY speaks about the 7 layers of earth!

And as www.55a.net said: “Pondering on the Hadith (sayings) of Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), we’ll find one that asserts the existence of the seven layers of the earth concentric and one above the other. The prophet (PBUH) said: (Whoever usurps even one span of the land, his neck will be encircled because of it with seven earths) [narrated by Al Bukhari]. Here the prophet gave another characteristic of the layers, encirclement, by saying (will be encircled with it) and this is how the layers truly look like, they are concentric and each one encircles the one underneath it.”

 

Coincidence? You (the reader) decide!

Is it a coincidence that the universe is amazingly vast and that scientists claim that there might be other earth-like planets?

Is it also a coincidence that our earth got 7 layers?

Is it also a coincidence that the Hadith said “Encircled”?

Is it also a coincidence……… you get the point!

And to believe that there exist 7 universes is not only Islamic, some scientists believe in this as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Multiverse_-_level_II.svg

 

Quote from the source:

 

“English: Level II Multiverse, Every disk is a bubble universe (Universe 1 to Universe 6 are different bubbles, they have physical constants that are different from our universe), our universe is just one of the bubbles.”

 

Off course, they got no proof, but NOBODY can disprove them because this is what they believe and they probably got reasons to why they believe in this!

 

So Insha’Allah in a couple of years, scientists will maybe discover some universes, if not, it doesn’t matter. It won’t hurt Islam at all!

 

Katz were trying to disprove Islam by using Ibn Abbas and other commentators with limited knowledge about the universe, where they stated “It is flat”, but as I said “I want Muhammad said, Allah said” and not “A scholar said this, a commentator guessed this, a imam’s opinion is this” and so on!

 

Imagine if a Christian scholar 2000 years ago stated that the earth is orbiting the sun, I guess Jochen would jump up and down out of happiness, but just IMAGINE, if in a couple of years this fact gets disproven and they discover that the earth is only rotating, what would Jochen say??? What?? Come again?:

Katz: “It was only the scholars OPINION”

Conclusion:

Jochen Katz is only desperate and wants to live a life freely without Islam on his back, well buddy boy I’m sorry but that’s not going to happen, as Allah (Subhana) said:

[Qur'an 48:28] Huwa allathee arsala rasoolahu bialhuda wadeeni alhaqqi liyuthhirahu AAala alddeeni kullihi wakafa biAllahi shaheedan

[Qur'an 48:28] He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions. And Allah sufficeth as a Witness.

 

 

 

The Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Noble Quran section.

Abortion in Islam is a crime after the first 120 days!

Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.

Rebuttals by Mahir.

Islam and the Noble Quran - Questions and Answers.

Answering Trinity.

Contradictions and History of Corruption in the Bible.

Questions about Jesus that trinitarian Christians don't have logical answers for.

What parts of the Bible do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth? and Why?

"Allah" was GOD Almighty's original Name in the Bible according to the Hebrew and Aramaic sources.

Scientific Miracles in Islam and the Noble Quran.

Most of the Bible's books and gospels were written by mysterious people!

Jesus mentioned Muhammad by the name in the Bible.

Did Isaiah 53 really prophesies about the crucifixion of Jesus? It supports Islam's claims about Jesus peace be upon him never died on the cross.  I also addressed John 19:36-37 from the Bible and proved that Jesus never got crucified, since GOD Almighty promised that he will protect Jesus' body and not let even a single bone be broken.    My question to all Christians is: How in the world is it possible for the feet to get nailed on the cross without any penetration to the bones by the nails, hence breaking part of the feet's bones?! I also added refutations to Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12, Zechariah 12:10 and Psalm 34:20, which supposedly prove the Christians' belief about Jesus crucifixion.  I proved that this dogma has no truth what so ever and exposed the wrong Trinitarian English translation of Zechariah 12:10.


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