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Rebuttal to Jochen Katz' "The 'Iddah rules for divorced and widowed women" article:

This article is a rebuttal to Jochen Katz' hilarious article that is located at: http://www.answeringislam.org/Quran/Contra/iddah.html.

 

 

He wrote:

Qur'an Inconsistency

 

The 'Iddah rules for divorced and widowed women

As a general rule, when a marriage ends — whether by a divorce or by the death of the husband — Islam prescribes a waiting period ('iddah) for the woman before she can marry again.

Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what God Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in God and the Last Day. ... 2:228 Yusuf Ali

O Prophet ! when you divorce women, divorce them for the prescribed period, and thereafter reckon the period; and fear ALLAH, your Lord. ... And if you are in doubt as to the prescribed period for such of your women as have despaired of monthly courses, then know that the prescribed period for them is three months, and also for such as do not have their monthly courses yet. And as for those who are with child, their period shall be until they are delivered of their burden. And whoso fears ALLAH, HE will provide facilities for him in his affair. S. 65:1,4 Sher Ali

If any of you die and leave widows behind, they shall wait concerning themselves four months and ten days: when they have fulfilled their term, there is no blame on you if they dispose of themselves in a just and reasonable manner. And Allah is well acquainted with what ye do. S. 2:234

A woman who was divorced by her husband has to wait (at least) three monthly periods and a woman whose husband died has to wait (at least) four months and ten days before they can marry again. The main objective appears to be that there should be no doubts as to the identity of the father if the woman gives birth to a child later on. Within this period it should become obvious whether or not a woman is pregnant. If she turns out to be pregnant, then her waiting period lasts until the birth of the child, otherwise she is free to remarry after the three months are over.

One could certainly wonder why a widow has to wait longer than a divorced woman, and view this as an inconsistency or injustice, but this issue shall not be our concern in the present paper.

 

My response:

The polytheist trinitarian pagan starts off his article with both absurdity and plain stupidity.  Perhaps he needs to consider his gospel of porn's (the book of women's vaginas and breasts taste like "WINE") religious rituals to see how worse they are than Islam's:

 

1-  Women's periods cause unbelievable and unbearable pollution.  EVERYBODY STAY AWAY!!

Leviticus 15:19-30 "And if a woman have an issue (her period/menses), [and] her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And if it [be] on [her] bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she [shall be] unclean. Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And the priest shall offer the one [for] a sin offering, and the other [for] a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness."


Compare this with Islam:

"They ask you concerning menstruation. Say: that is an Adha (a harmful thing for a husband to have a sexual intercourse with his wife while she is having her menses), therefore keep away from women during menses and go not unto them till they have purified (from menses and have taken a bath). And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah has ordained for you (go in unto them in any manner as long as it is in their vagina). Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves (by taking a bath and cleaning and washing thoroughly their private parts, bodies, for their prayers, etc.).   (The Noble Quran, 2:222)"

Maimuna (the wife of the Holy Prophet) reported:  "The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) contacted and embraced his wives over the waist-wrapper when they were menstruating.  (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Menstruation (Kitab Al-Haid), Book 003, Number 0579)

 

2-  Women's birth causes double the pollution and it is HATED!!

Leviticus 12:2-5 "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a MALE child: then she shall be unclean SEVEN DAYS; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying THIRTY THREE days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a FEMALE child, then she shall be unclean TWO WEEKS, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying SIXTY SIX days."

Ecclesiasticus 22:3 "....and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss" (From the New Jerusalem Bible.  It's a Roman Catholics Bible).

Revelation 14:4 "Those are those (men) who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure.  They follow the Lamb wherever he goes.  They were purchased from among men and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb."


Compare this with Islam:

"When news is brought to one of them, of (the birth of) a female (child), his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief!  With shame does he hide himself from his people, Because of the bad news He has had!  Shall he retain it On (sufferance and) contempt, Or bury it in the dust?  Ah! what an evil (choice) They decide on?  (The Noble Quran, 16:58-59)"   So considering the birth of females as a bad thing is evil by itself in the Noble Quran.

Also, the Prophet peace be upon him said:  Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If anyone cares for three daughters, disciplines them, marries them, and does good to them, he will go to Paradise.  (Translation of Sunan abu Dawud, Book 41, General Behavior (Kitab Al-Adab), Number 5128)"

 

3-  Widows must marry their brother in laws!

"If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her.  (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 25:5)"


Compare this with Islam:

Narrated Ibn Abbas:  "Regarding the Divine Verse: "O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness that you may take back part of the (Mahr) dower you have given them." (4:19) (Before this revelation) if a man died, his relatives used to have the right to inherit his wife, and one of them could marry her if he would, or they would give her in marriage if they wished, or, if they wished, they would not give her in marriage at all, and they would be more entitled to dispose her, than her own relatives. So the above Verse was revealed in this connection.  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)), Volume 6, Book 60, Number 103)"

So as we clearly see, Islam in Noble Verse 4:19, clearly prevents the in-laws from trying to control and abuse the widows.  Before Islam, widows were basically enslaved to their in-laws.  They had no control over any of their inheritance, and they were in many times married off to their former husband's brothers or relatives.  Islam came and ended all of that, and lifted the status of women and gave them liberty and rights.

 

 

So what's your say now?

 

 

He wrote:

More interesting is the observation that the Qur'an makes an explicit exception to the above mentioned rule for divorced women:

O you who believe: When you marry believing women and then divorce them before you have touched them, no period of idda (waiting) have you to count in respect of them: so give them a present and set them free in a graceful manner. S. 33:49

In other words, if the marriage was not yet consummated, i.e. there was no sexual intercourse, there cannot be an unborn child. In this case, the woman does not have to observe the 'iddah period; and the husband who does not like to keep her (for whatever reason), does not have to pay her expenses for another three months, which would otherwise be his obligation (cf. S. 65:6-7).

 

My response:

Ok.  Still, Islam is 100 times better than your gospel of porn's religious rituals toward women that are filled with hate and derogatory sexist statements.

 

He wrote:

However, this exception is made only for divorced women, not for widowed women. The focus of the present paper is to discuss this inconsistency . In the following I will present some quotations from Muslim commentators in regard to the waiting period for widows in order to understand the Islamic regulations on this topic.

The classical Qur'an commentator Ibn Kathir states in his commentary on 2:234:

The `Iddah (Waiting Period) of the Widow

This Ayah contains a command from Allah to the wives whose husbands die, that they should observe a period of `Iddah of four months and ten nights, including the cases where the marriage was consummated OR OTHERWISE, according to the consensus (of the scholars).

The proof that this ruling includes the case where the marriage WAS NOT CONSUMMATED is included in the general meaning of the Ayah. In a narration recorded by Imam Ahmad and the compilers of the Sunan, which At-Tirmidhi graded Sahih, Ibn Mas`ud was asked about a man who married a woman, but he died before consummating the marriage. He also did not appoint a Mahr (dowry) for her. They kept asking Ibn Mas`ud about this subject until he said, "I shall give you my own opinion, and if it is correct then it is from Allah, while if it is wrong it is because of my error and because of (the evil efforts of) Satan. In this case, Allah and His Messenger are innocent of my opinion. She has her full Mahr." In another narration, Ibn Mas`ud said, "She has a similar Mahr to that of the women of her status, without stinginess or extravagance." He then continued, "She has to spend the `Iddah and has a right to the inheritance." Ma`qil bin Yasar Ashja`i then stood up and said, "I heard Allah's Messenger issue a similar judgment for the benefit of Barwa` bint Washiq." `Abdullah bin Mas`ud became very delighted upon hearing this statement. In another narration, several men from Ashja` (tribe) stood up and said, "We testify that Allah's Messenger issued a similar ruling for the benefit of Barwa` bint Washiq."

As for the case of the widow whose husband dies while she is pregnant, her term of `Iddah ends when she gives birth, even if it occurs an instant (after her husband dies). This ruling is taken from Allah's statement…

<And for those who are pregnant, their `Iddah is until they lay down their burden.> (65:4)

There is also a Hadith from Subay`ah Al-Aslamiyah in the Two Sahihs, through various chains of narration. Her husband, Sa`d bin Khawlah, died while she was pregnant and she gave birth only a few nights after his death. When she finished her Nifas (postnatal period), she beautified herself for those who might seek to engage her (for marriage). Then, Abu Sanabil bin Ba`kak came to her and said, "Why do I see you beautified yourself, do you wish to marry By Allah! You will not marry until the four months and ten nights have passed." Subay`ah said, "When he said that to me, I collected my garments when night fell and went to Allah's Messenger and asked him about this matter. He said that my Iddah had finished when I gave birth and allowed me to get married if I wished." (Source; capital and underline emphasis ours)

Ibn Kathir also confirms what was stated above, i.e. that the reason why this period was prescribed is to find out whether or not the woman is pregnant:

The Wisdom behind legislating the `Iddah

Sa`id bin Musayyib and Abu Al-`Aliyah stated that the wisdom behind making the `Iddah of the widow four months and ten nights is that the womb might contain a fetus. When the woman waits for this period, it will become evident if she is pregnant. Similarly, there is a Hadith in the Two Sahihs narrated by Ibn Mas`ud stating …

<(The creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of his mother in forty days in the form of a seed, and next he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and next a morsel of flesh for a similar period. Then, Allah sends an angel who is ordered to breathe life unto the fetus.>

So, these are four months and ten more days to be sure, as some months are less (than thirty days), and the fetus will then start to show signs of life after the soul has been breathed into it. Allah knows best. (Source)

The late contemporary Muslim scholar Abu A’la Mawdudi basically reiterated this same position since he wrote in reference to this Quranic passage that:

259. The waiting period owing to death of the husband is obligatory EVEN FOR A WOMAN WITH WHOM CONSUMMATION OF MARRIAGE HAS NOT TAKEN PLACE. A pregnant woman, however, is exempted from this. Her waiting period expires with childbirth, irrespective of whether the time between the husband’s death and the childbirth is less than the waiting period prescribed by Law. (Mawdudi, Towards Understanding the Qur’an: English Version of Tafhim al-Qur’an, translated and edited by Zafar Ishaq Ansari [The Islamic Foundation, Leicestershire, United Kingdom, Reprinted 1995], Volume I, Surahs 1-3, pp. 182-183; capital emphasis ours)

To summarize: The reason for instituting the 'iddah is the possibility that the woman may be pregnant at the time of the divorce or the death of her husband. Therefore, if the woman delivers a child, then her 'iddah is automatically over. It has served its purpose. This holds equally for the divorced and the widowed woman.

The other case in which one can be certain that there will be no child in regard to whom the Muslim community does not know the identity of the father, is if no sexual intercourse has taken place between husband and wife. Therefore, the exception found in S. 33:49 is logical.

 

My response:

I am glad that you at least said: "Therefore, the exception found in S. 33:49 is logical."  I certainly don't find any logic in your bible's derogatory sexist insults against women, above.

As to the rest of your writings, I don't have much to say about them.

 

He wrote:

Here, however, is the inconsistency: The Qur'an does not grant the widow the same exception as the divorcee. If the marriage is terminated before it was consummated — whether by divorce or by the death of the husband — why does the widow have to undergo a waiting period of four months and ten days, but the divorcee is free to marry as soon as she likes? Why are these two women not treated equally?

 

My response:

Allah Almighty gave a mourning period for the widowed woman who lost her husband.   Divorce usually happens due to hostility between the two spouses and life between them becomes virtually impossible.  If the marriage was not consummated, then the woman can marry again without a waiting period.  If they did consummate the marriage, then she must wait for three months.  If she discovers that she is pregnant, then she must wait until she gives birth.

Why are the periods different between the widow and the divorced woman?  It is because Allah Almighty decided that it should be the way it is as our Religious Law and Ritual.

But how is your gospel of porn above any better than Islam, when Islam treats women 100 times better?  Not only that, but your Bible is filled with man-made insulting and sexist statements against women.  These certainly are not Divine Revelations from GOD Almighty.  "A birth of any daughter is a loss" and "men who did not defile themselves with women" are man-made sexist garbage that are now permanently part of your corrupt bible.

 

He wrote:

The commentators quoted above merely follow the Qur'an in this inconsistent regulation, and seek to support this regulation for widows with reference to the practice of Muhammad. This does not resolve the inconsistency as such, but simply means that Muhammad followed the Qur'an in being inconsistent in regard to this issue.

The Qur'an states explicitly that divorced and widowed women have to observe a waiting period of three months or four months and ten days respectively, see S. 2:228, 65:4 and 2:234 quoted above. There are no exceptions stated for widowed women. There are two exceptions stated for divorced women: (a) If the woman is pregnant then her waiting period ends with the delivery of the child (S. 65:4), (b) if the couple has not consummated their marriage, then there is no waiting period at all (S. 33:49).

This reveals the second inconsistency. Both exceptions are stated for the divorced woman only but the commentators apply exception (a) also to widowed women, while they do not accept that exception (b) is also applied to them.

To summarize again: There are two inconsistencies. (1) When a marriage is terminated before it is consummated, the women are treated vastly differently. The divorcee can marry again immediately, but the widow has to wait at least four months and ten days. (2) In the Qur'an, there are two exceptions to the normal waiting period for a divorced woman. There are no exceptions mentioned for the widowed woman. The Muslim commentators and jurists apply one of the exceptions that is given for the case of a divorce also to the case of the widow, i.e. they extend the application of the law based on analogy, but they refuse the application of the second exception even though the same kind of analogy could be used.

[ Excursus: For illustration, imagine the following two cases: Couple A and couple B just married. As is still common in many parts of the Islamic world, it may even be a marriage arranged by relatives, i.e. husband and wife may hardly have known each other before the wedding ceremony. Shortly after the wedding something happens which greatly upsets the husband and he becomes very angry at his wife. Husband A pronounces a divorce against his new wife. Husband B has a weak heart, and before he can divorce his wife, he dies of a heart attack. The situation is very similar in both cases, but the quranic ruling is very different. None of the couples ever consummated their marriage. Both women find themselves without husband shortly after their wedding. Yet, the first one is free to marry immediately, while the second one has to observe a waiting period of over four months. ]

The Islamic data are clear. The question remains: Why is the ruling so different in these two similar cases?

 

My response:

No inconsistencies here.  I have already refuted your absurdities in the previous sections crystal clear.  It is only your twisted and deceptive mind that is trying to create this false illusion.  In your illustration above, no one knows if husband B wanted to divorce his wife or not.  And if he if he did, as long as he never divorced her then she was still his wife!  And only the widow would tell whether she was divorced or not by him.  Her testimony would be absolutely valid in the Islamic Court of Law.  If she did purposely lie, then it is only her problem with Allah Almighty.

How else does this polytheist trinitarian pagan expect us to prove whether she was divorced or not before the husband died?? 

Anyway, here are my responses to your points:

(1) When a marriage is terminated before it is consummated, the women are treated vastly differently. The divorcee can marry again immediately, but the widow has to wait at least four months and ten days.

Like I mentioned above, Allah Almighty gave a mourning period for the widowed woman who lost her husband.  Divorce usually happens due to hostility between the two spouses and life between them becomes virtually impossible.  If the marriage was not consummated, then the woman can marry again without a waiting period.   If they did consummate the marriage, then she must wait for three months.  If she discovers that she is pregnant, then she must wait until she gives birth.

Why are the periods different between the widow and the divorced woman?  It is because Allah Almighty decided that it should be the way it is as our Religious Ritual.

 

What's most ironic about this is that you don't have a problem with the insulting "rituals", to women, that I posted above in your bible!

 

(2) In the Qur'an, there are two exceptions to the normal waiting period for a divorced woman. There are no exceptions mentioned for the widowed woman. The Muslim commentators and jurists apply one of the exceptions that is given for the case of a divorce also to the case of the widow, i.e. they extend the application of the law based on analogy, but they refuse the application of the second exception even though the same kind of analogy could be used.

Let us look at the Noble Verses in question:

"Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what God Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in God and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And God is Exalted in Power, Wise.  (The Noble Quran, 2:228)"

"Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear God, He will make their path easy.  (The Noble Quran, 65:4)"

"If any of you die and leave widows behind, they shall wait concerning themselves four months and ten days: When they have fulfilled their term, there is no blame on you if they dispose of themselves in a just and reasonable manner. And God is well acquainted with what ye do.  (The Noble Quran, 2:234)"

Noble Verse 2:234 does not limit the widow's prescribed period.  The widow who is not pregnant must wait for four months and 10 days for a mourning period as I explained above.   It is a special and unique period for her.  But if she is pregnant, or discovers that she is pregnant (which she can easily do so during her mourning period), then "....for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens:...."  Single (single, divorced or widowed) pregnant women in Islam are not allowed to get married until they give birth.

If she does give birth during her four months and 10 days, then she must still finish the idda period, because it is a mourning period.

 

 

He wrote:

The marriage is terminated before it is consummated. That is the same in both cases. What is it that makes them different? Perhaps the reason for the waiting period will provide a clue. The main concern is apparently that there should be no child whose father is in doubt. In both cases, no sexual intercourse was performed by the couple. But how do we know that this is indeed so?

That is the crucial question: How can we be sure? Here is the difference:

In case of the divorcee we have the testimony of the ex-husband, a Muslim man's testimony, that no intercourse has taken place. In case of the widow we only have a woman's testimony.

Could the real reason for the different treatment be that a woman's testimony is not sufficient?

 

My response:

"But how do we know that this is indeed so?"  Just ask!

Not trying to be sarcastic here, but are you actually suggesting that we follow your bible and we insert (to the reader, sorry for the graphic language here) a finger in the girl's vagina to make sure she is a virgin as your gospel of porn commands, and as even Mary, the mother of your god, was fingered?

 

An AUDIO file (46 seconds) from the "Banned from the Bible" documentary film proving that Salome inserted her finger into MARY.

(www.answering-christianity.com/fathers_rape.htm)

 

I think the reader can clearly see that Jochen Katz had been soundly refuted.  His double-standards, and hypocrisy are sound and clear!  What he is attacking Islam with only back fires 100 times on him when opening up his gospel of porn and see how it regards women.

So let's sum it all up here:

1-  His Bible clearly regards women as human-excrement during their menses.   Everything they touch must be thrown away!

2-  His Bible HATES for females to be born, and punishes the mother TWICE for giving birth to a baby girl.

3-  His Bible FORCES widows to marry their brother in laws, regardless whether they love them or not.  And of course, she would be under his feet.

4-  We have clearly seen Islam's comparison with all of this and saw clearly that Islam treats women far better than the gospel of porn does.

 

 

 

 

Responses to all of the so-called "Contradictions" in the Noble Quran.

My Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.

Rebuttals to Jochen Katz' Articles section.

Ask me any question section.

Errors and History of Contradictions and Corruption in the Bible.

Christians are Commanded to follow the Old Testament.

Allah, Islam, Quran, Muhammad questions and answers.

What is the place of Jews, Christians and non-Muslims in Islam?

Answering Trinity.

"Allah" was GOD Almighty's Original Name in the Bible according to the Hebrew and Aramaic sources.


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