Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's article Responses to "Islamic Information": Jesus on whom be peace in the Glorious Qur'an.

Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's article

Responses to "Islamic Information"

Jesus on whom be peace in the Glorious Qur'an

http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Shabir-Ally/jesusinquran2.htm

Missionary Sam Shamoun has quite a few responses to Islamic scholar Shabir Ally on the answering-Islam website; the purpose of this rebuttal is to simply respond to one of Sam Shamoun's responses. Over time I shall be responding to some other responses by Shamoun to Shabir Ally.

He Wrote

Shabir's paper summarizes the Quranic portrait of Jesus. Although his summaries are accurate for the most part, there are certain points where he either did not delve into deeply enough or discarded completely. We begin our examination of his paper.

The Qur'an tells us a lot of wonderful things about Jesus. As a result, believers in the Quran love Jesus, honour him, and believe in him. In fact, no Muslim can be a Muslim unless he or she believes in Jesus, on whom be peace.

The Book of Mormon also tells us a lot of wonderful stuff about Jesus, yet Shabir would not embrace it as a revelation of God. In fact, no Mormon can be a Mormon unless he or she believes in Jesus. Furthermore, whereas the Quran commands Shabir to send peace and blessings upon Muhammad (cf. S. 33:56), there is no Quranic verse telling him to do so for other prophets. Hence, Shabir does not need to send peace upon Jesus since Jesus is our peace:

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6

"I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation, but fear not for I have overcome the world." John 16:33

"For He is our peace. He has made us both one, and has broken down the hostile dividing wall between us." Ephesians 2:14

My Response

Unlike all other texts available to us, the Quran is the only book which gives the true account of Jesus, unlike the Bible. The Quran corrects the Bible on its many mistakes regarding Jesus, such as his death, or him being God or anything to do with divinity. In fact the Bible calls Jesus a liar by attributing false prophecies made by him, visit this article:

http://answering-christianity.com/karim/false_prophecies_in_the_bible.htm

Secondly, note what Shamoun quotes:

If this is really referring to Jesus, and Shamoun really believes that Jesus is a prince of peace, then why did the prince of peace die violently? And why was there so much violence done upon his believers?

He Wrote

The Qur'an says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he spoke while he was still only a baby, that he healed the blind and the leper by God's leave, and that he raised the dead by God's leave.

What then is the significance of these miracles? First, the virgin birth. God demonstrates his power to create in every way. God created everyone we know from a man and a woman. But how about Adam, on whom be peace? God created him from neither a man nor a woman. And Eve from only a man, but not a woman. And, finally, to complete the picture, God created Jesus from a woman, but not a man.

Actually, the virgin birth is a rather unconvincing demonstration of God's power in that it is something unverifiable and must be taken solely by faith. Unlike Jesus' public miracles, no one was there when Mary received the news from the angel that she would conceive while still a virgin. In fact, it took namely another miracle to defend her integrity:

"At length she brought The (babe) to her people, Carrying him (in her arms). They said: `O Mary! Truly an amazing thing Hast thou brought! O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not A man of evil, nor thy Mother a woman unchaste!' But she pointed to the babe. They said: `How can we Talk to one who is A child in the cradle?' He said: ;I am indeed A servant of God: He hath given me Revelation and made me A prophet; and He hath made me Blessed wheresoever I be, And hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long As I live; (He) hath made me kind To my mother, and not Overbearing or miserable; So Peace is on me The day I was born, The day that I die, And the day I Shall be raised up To life (again)'!" Sura 19:27-33

Yusuf Ali notes,

"What could Mary do? How could she explain? Would they, in their censorious mood, accept her explanation? All she could do was point to the child, who, she knew, was no ordinary child. A child came to her rescue. By a miracle he spoke, and defended his mother, and preached to an unbelieving audience." (Ali, The Holy Quran, f. 2482)

Hence, Shabir's reasoning behind the virgin birth cannot be sustained. Furthermore, whereas Adam and Eve could not have been born through the normal process of sexual reproduction due primarily to their being the first set of humans on the face of the earth, this was not the case with Jesus. The creation of Adam from clay and Eve from Adam was determined in part by their being the only humans at the time of their existence. Yet, why would there be a need for Jesus to be born of a virgin seeing that the process of sexual reproduction had already been established by God? The Quran does not give us an answer

My Response

Several responses are in order, firstly Shamoun argues that it took another miracle to prove the miracle of the virgin birth, which is Jesus defending his mother when he was just a baby, Shamoun argues the virgin birth would have to be believed solely on faith etc. What exactly is the problem with that? Is it a crime to have faith in God's miracles and what he plans? In fact this is something normal for Muslims; this is called the belief in the unseen, Al-ghayb as you say in Arabic:

The Meaning of Al-Ghayb

As for the meaning of Ghayb here, the Salaf have different explanations of it, all of which are correct, indicating the same general meaning. For instance, Abu Ja`far Ar-Razi quoted Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, reporting from Abu Al-`Aliyah about Allah's statement, i

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((Those who) have faith in the Ghayb), "They believe in Allah, His angels, Books, Messengers, the Last Day, His Paradise, Fire and in the meeting with Him. They also believe in life after death and in Resurrection. All of this is the Ghayb.'' Qatadah bin Di`amah said similarly.

Sa`id bin Mansur reported from `Abdur-Rahman bin Yazid who said, "We were sitting with `Abdullah bin Mas`ud when we mentioned the Companions of the Prophet and their deeds being superior to our deeds. `Abdullah said, `The matter of Muhammad was clear for those who saw him. By He other than Whom there is no God, no person will ever acquire a better type of faith than believing in Al-Ghayb.' He then recited,

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(Alif Lam Mim. This is the Book, wherein there is no doubt, a guidance for the Muttaqin. Those who believe in the Ghayb), until,

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(the successful). '' Ibn Abi Hatim, Ibn Marduwyah and Al-Hakim, in his Mustadrak, recorded this Hadith. Al-Hakim commented that this Hadith is authentic and that the Two Shaykhs - Al-Bukhari and Muslim - did not collect it, although it meets their criteria.

Ahmad recorded a Hadith with similar meaning from Ibn Muhayriz who said: I said to Abu Jumu`ah, "Narrate a Hadith for us that you heard from the Messenger of Allah.'' He said, "Yes. I will narrate a good Hadith for you. Once we had lunch with the Messenger of Allah . Abu

`Ubaydah, who was with us, said, `O Messenger of Allah! Are people better than us We embraced Islam with you and performed Jihad with you.' He said,

«äóÚóãú Þóæúãñ ãöäú ÈóÚúÏößõãú íõÄúãöäõæäó Èöí æóáóãú íóÑóæúäöí»

(Yes, those who will come after you, who will believe in me although they did not see me.)''

This Hadith has another route collected by Abu Bakr bin Marduwyah in his Tafsir, from Salih bin Jubayr who said: `Abu Jumu`ah Al-Ansari, the Companion of the Messenger of Allah , came to Bayt Al-Maqdis (Jerusalem) to perform the prayer. Raja' bin Haywah was with us, so when Abu Jumu`ah finished, we went out to greet him. When he was about to leave, he said, "You have a gift and a right. I will narrate a Hadith for you that I heard from the Messenger of Allah. '' We said, "Do so, and may Allah grant you mercy.'' He said, "We were with the Messenger of Allah, ten people including Mu`adh bin Jabal. We said, "O Messenger of Allah! Are there people who will acquire greater rewards than us We believed in Allah and followed you.' He said,

«ãóÇ íóãúäóÚõßõãú ãöäú Ðóáößó æóÑóÓõæáõ Çááåö Èóíúäó ÃóÙúåõÑößõãú íóÃúÊöíßõãú ÈöÇáúæóÍúíö ãöäó ÇáÓøóãóÇÁö¡ Èóáú Þóæúãñ ÈóÚúÏóßõãú íóÃúÊöíåöãú ßöÊóÇÈñ ãöäú Èóíúäö áóæúÍóíúäö íõÄúãöäõæäó Èöåö æóíóÚúãóáõæäó ÈöãóÇ Ýöíåö¡ ÃõæáÆößó ÃóÚúÙóãõ ãöäúßõãú ÃóÌúÑðÇ ãóÑøóÊóíúä»

(What prevents you from doing so, while the Messenger of Allah is among you, bringing you the revelation from heaven There are people who will come after you and who will be given a book between two covers (the Qur'an), and they will believe in it and implement its commands. They have a greater reward than you, even twice as much.)''

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(And perform Salah, and spend out of what we have provided for them)

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=802

Secondly, everything Shamoun believes in is based on his faith! Has Shamoun ever seen God face to face? Did he see Jesus die? Did he see Jesus rise from the dead? No, he did not, yet he believes in all those things, and believes in the resurrection of Jesus to be a great work of God, yet a work he never witnessed.

Secondly, it was Allah's divine plan to carry out things in this way, for the virgin birth to happen, and for her people to accuse her, for this would then allow the mighty miracle of Jesus to take place, Allah is doing to great works at once. Jesus defending his mother just when he was a baby is his first miracle, and what a great miracle indeed, unlike the Bible which records Jesus' first ever miracle as turning water into wine! :

John 2 1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. 3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. 5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. 6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. 7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. 8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. 9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. 11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Now is this wine he made alcoholic or not? If it is alcoholic then this isnt really a miracle, since we know in weddings that people consume a lot of alcohol, and as we all know, consumption of a lot of alcohol can cause severe liver damage, makes you drunk, which leads to domestic violence, and other terrible tragedies. Let us see what the doctors have to say on the effects of alcohol:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5194258-103690,00.html

Excessive drinking causes brain damage in women more quickly than in men, according to a team of scientists.

The finding is especially worrying in the light of reports that binge drinking among women is soaring, according to the charity Alcohol Concern.

Scientists at the University of Heidelberg in Germany took brain scans of 158 volunteers, 76 of whom were alcoholic men and women. They found they could use the brain scans to trace the progression of alcohol dependency in women.

The scans also revealed that alcohol-induced brain damage could be picked up much earlier in women than men.

"The women developed equal brain-volume reductions as the men after a significantly shorter period of alcohol dependence," said Karl Mann, who led the study.

The study, which appears in the May issue of the journal Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research, supports evidence that the harmful effects of alcohol differ between the sexes.

http://corp.aadac.com/for_women/the_basics_about_women/women_effects_alcohol.asp

Alcohol is often believed to be a stimulant, because it lowers inhibitions and impairs planning and judgment. But alcohol actually acts as a depressant on the central nervous system, slowing down brain functioning.

omen are more sensitive to the effects of alcohol than men, and experience its harmful medical complications in a shorter period of time.

Women who drink heavily tend to develop liver or heart disease after fewer years of heavy drinking than men. (5, 11) These women also experience greater damage to their brain structure after fewer years of heavy drinking than men who are heavy drinkers. (11)

Women who consume as few as two drinks per day are at increased risk of developing high blood pressure. (5)

With as few as two or three drinks a day, a woman is at increased risk of dying from liver disease, cancer or injury. (5)

Consumption of as many as four drinks per day increases the risk of stroke among women. (5)

Higher levels of alcohol consumption may have negative effects on a woman's menstrual cycle. She may have more painful, heavy, or irregular periods as a result. (5, 8, 14)

Heavy alcohol consumption may lead to the deterioration of female reproductive health. Ovarian wasting (shrinkage) or abnormal function, endometriosis (cysts outside the uterus), infertility and sexual dysfunction have all been observed in alcoholic women. (5, 8, 14)

Effects during pregnancy

Drinking while pregnant may harm the developing fetus. Much research is being done, but to date there is still no known safe level of alcohol consumption for pregnant women. Most doctors and researchers believe it is safest not to drink while pregnant.

It is unclear whether a child's health problems are caused solely by a mother's use of alcohol during pregnancy or in combination with other factors including

* poor nutritional habits

* smoking

* other drug consumption

* use of more than one drug

* lack of sleep

* a mother's general health prior to pregnancy

* genetics

* how much alcohol, tobacco or other drugs are consumed during pregnancy

* at what stage in the pregnancy the substance is consumed

* the length of time the substance is consumed

The effects of alcohol have been difficult to study because these other factors also have an impact on the pregnancy. Until more is known about the specific effects of alcohol, tobacco and other drugs, it is safest to avoid using them while pregnant.

Any harm done to the fetus as a result of drinking during pregnancy cannot be reversed, but reducing or eliminating alcohol intake at any time during pregnancy is healthiest for the fetus. (10) It's never too late to quit or cut down on drinking.

Effects during birth

Pregnant women who consume 10 or more drinks per week, or one to two drinks per day, are at higher risk of premature labour and delivery than women who rarely drink. (13)

Use of alcohol during pregnancy has been related to miscarriage or stillbirth. (6, 7)

Even one drink per day is associated with intrauterine growth restriction (the fetus not growing at a normal rate) and reduced birth weight. (7, 13)

Effects on breastfeeding

The Canadian Pediatric Society recommends that mothers who consume alcoholic beverages infrequently should breasted their children. However, breastfeeding is not recommended for women who regularly consume more than a moderate amount of alcohol (more than two drinks per day). (15)

A nursing mother who consumes alcohol tends to produce less milk. (16)

The infant may feed more frequently, but ingests less milk. (4)

Infants who are regularly exposed to alcohol in their mother's breast milk may have more difficulty in learning to co-ordinate their movement, and in developing their mental abilities. (6, 16) In addition, infants tend to have less restful sleep and sleep for shorter periods of time after consuming breast milk containing alcohol. (16)

Effects on child development

Effects on early development

Short-term effects at birth may include withdrawal symptoms such as sleeplessness, irritability, diarrhea, vomiting, breathing problems, seizures and lack of sucking during breastfeeding. (1)

A growing fetus ingests alcohol when alcohol passes from the mother through the placenta. Because the liver of the fetus is underdeveloped, it cannot break down the alcohol as quickly as a fully developed liver can. As a result, the fetus is exposed to alcohol for longer periods of time, and developing organs may be harmed by this long-term exposure. (18)

Moderate alcohol use during pregnancy has been linked to developmental and behavioral difficulties in infants. (6)

Effects on long-term development

Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder (FASD), fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS), partial fetal alcohol syndrome (p-FAS), fetal alcohol effects (FAE), alcohol-related neurodevelopment disorder (ARND) and alcohol-related birth defects (ARBD) are all terms used to describe the physical and/or mental difficulties a child exposed to alcohol before being born may experience. These difficulties do not go away or change -- they last a lifetime.

Health Canada states that heavier drinking like binge drinking (consuming five drinks or more per occasion) or frequent drinking (consuming seven or more drinks per week) during pregnancy is linked to both FAS and FAE. (10)

Physically, alcohol-exposed children may exhibit problems with co-ordination, movement, vision and hearing, and/or have birth defects that may include

* bone and muscle deformities

* heart defects

* other deformities of the face or head

* kidney and organ problems (9)

Children exposed to alcohol before birth (even in light to moderate amounts) may have intellectual, behavioral, emotional or social problems that persist throughout their entire lives. These alcohol-exposed individuals may have

* mental handicaps (9)

* problems with learning, memory and problem solving (2, 17)

* poor judgment or failure to consider consequences (12)

* destructive, aggressive, inattentive, nervous or overactive behaviors (12)

* trouble with the law (12)

* a tendency to develop their own alcohol and other drug problems (3)

There is no known safe level of alcohol consumption for pregnant women.

http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/drug_guide/Alcohol

What are its short-term effects?

the effects of moderate alcohol intake include dizziness and talkativeness; the immediate effects of a larger amount of alcohol include slurred speech, disturbed sleep, nausea, and vomiting. Alcohol, even at low doses, significantly impairs the judgment and coordination required to drive a car safely. Low to moderate doses of alcohol can also increase the incidence of a variety of aggressive acts, including domestic violence and child abuse. Hangovers are another possible effect after large amounts of alcohol are consumed; a hangover consists of headache, nausea, thirst, dizziness, and fatigue.

What are its long-term effects?

Prolonged, heavy use of alcohol can lead to addiction (alcoholism). Sudden cessation of long term, extensive alcohol intake is likely to produce withdrawal symptoms, including severe anxiety, tremors, hallucinations and convulsions. Long-term effects of consuming large quantities of alcohol, especially when combined with poor nutrition, can lead to permanent damage to vital organs such as the brain and liver. In addition, mothers who drink alcohol during pregnancy may give birth to infants with fetal alcohol syndrome. These infants may suffer from mental retardation and other irreversible physical abnormalities. In addition, research indicates that children of alcoholic parents are at greater risk than other children of becoming alcoholics.

http://www.alcohol-addiction.org/

UNDERSTANDING ALCOHOL ADDICTION

Alcohol is known to man as one of the oldest addictions there is.

The University of Amsterdam and the Leiden University conducted a study in 2002 and concluded that a person’s ability to function normally is effected after even one drink.

Alcohol addiction is a road of destruction for an individual suffering through alcohol addiction.

TWO PROBLEMS, ONE ADDICTION.

This is not a mysterious brain disease. People begin drinking to solve some perceived problem or problems in his or her life and before they realize it there’s a dependency and an addiction. Alcohol dependence and addiction originates from the continued use of alcohol to combat the perceived problems. Either a physical and/or an emotional dependence causes addiction.

By the time reality kicks in the alcohol addiction is a greater problem than the original problem or problems the alcohol was suppose to solve.

Now the result is there are two problems for the person to deal with: Number one is the possibly forgotten original problem and number two is the new found alcoholism to contend with.

ONE SOLUTION SOLVES BOTH PROBLEMS WITH TREMENDOUS SUCCESS!

Getting someone to stop drinking is not a simple matter of someone having self-control or self-discipline as many people think. Only one of the problems is a persons ability to quit drinking but the combination of the original problem that started the drinking and the added problem within the addiction to stop drinking makes the endeavor seem impossible.

Overcoming these real life problems with real life solutions is an essential component to a successful rehabilitation. The right tools and life skills to surpass common barriers encountered by people on a daily basis are necessary for beating the addiction long-term. In order for those suffering through any type of addiction they must be able to apply these tools to their every day lives consistently.

For an alcoholic to become a happy, healthy, and productive member of society both the drinking problem and the underlying reasons for it have to be solved.

Need I say more?

Shamoun also says:

The reason why God did the miracle virgin birth is to give the people another mighty sign to them, is there anything wrong with that? Who are you to ask why God does this or why God does that, he does whatever he wills. He wanted to give the people a major sign to believe, that is all.

He Wrote

"And Mary said to the angel, How can this be, since I have no husband? Then the angel said to her, The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and so the holy Thing which shall be born, will be called the Son of God." Luke 1:34-34

The reason for the virgin birth is that Jesus is the Son of God. Being the Son of God, this was the only befitting manner for him to enter time and space.

My Response

This answer would work if Jesus was the ONLY son of God, but to bad for Shamoun Jesus is not the only son of God:

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 82:6)"

Not only were these Jews called the sons of God, but they were also called gods!

In the Tanakh In the Tanakh, the phrase "sons of god" has multiple meanings:

· The Hebrew <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language> phrase Benei Elohim, often translated as "The Sons of God", describes angels <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels>, demigods or immensely powerful human beings. See Genesis 6:2-4. Many Bible scholars believe that this is a reference to pre-Biblical near-eastern mythology.

· It is used to denote a human judge or ruler (Ps. lxxxii. 6, "children of the Most High"; in many passages "gods" and "judges" seem to be equations); and to the real or ideal king over Israel (II Sam. vii. 14, with reference to David and his dynasty; comp. Ps. lxxxix. 27, 28).

· The phrases "sons of God" and "children of God" are applied to Israel as a people (comp. Ex. iv. 22 and Hos. xi. 1), the Jewish people, and also to all members of the human race.

In the Tanakh <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh> the term does not connote any form of physical descent from, or essential unity with, God. The Hebrew idiom conveys an expression of godlikeness (see Godliness <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Godliness&action=edit>).

So why werent all these sons of God given virgin births?

He Wrote

What about the other miracles? These were to show that Jesus was not acting on his own behalf, but that he was backed by God. The Qur'an specifies that these miracles were performed by God's leave. This may be compared to the Book of Acts in the Bible, chapter 2, verse 22, where it says that the miracles were done by God to show that he approved of Jesus. Also, note that Jesus himself is recorded in the Gospel of John to have said, "I can do nothing of my own authority" (5:30). The miracles, therefore, were done not by his own authority, but by God's authority.

Actually, Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus functioned independently, doing whatever he pleased. Rather, Trinitarian teaching entails the belief that the three Persons of the Godhead do not work independently, but in perfect unity. The Godhead does all things as one, having one purpose. Hence, passages where Jesus indicates that he does nothing on his own affirms the perfect unity of the Godhead. This can be directly seen by what Jesus says to the unbelieving Jews:

"So Jesus answered them by saying, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the Son is able to do nothing of his own accord; but He is able to do what He sees His Father doing. FOR WHATEVER THE FATHER DOES IS WHAT THE SON DOES IN THE SAME WAY." John 5:19

My Response

Shamoun does a typical Christian move here giving an explanation which is absent from the words of Jesus, another Christian myth that has been invented.

Shamoun claims that the reason Jesus says he does nothing of his own is because he works together with the Father, a convenient answer, yet wishful thinking on Shamoun's part.

What Shamoun forgets is that EVERYTHING JESUS SAID AND HAD WAS FROM THE FATHER, tell me does that sound like your working togethor? Here are the verses:

John 17:6-8: 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me

Not Jesus says that ALL things have been GIVEN to him, meaning miracles, doctrine and so on, Jesus himself said his doctrine is not his:

Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Jhn 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

Jhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Notice the problem Shamoun's explanation has, if the Father and Son are working perfectly together, then why doesn’t Jesus say my doctrine is not mine, but OURS, my Father and I. Why doesn’t Jesus say that instead? If Jesus and the Father are working together and so on as Jesus claims, then why does Jesus lay all authority and power to the Father alone? Jesus says it BELONGS TO THE FATHER, meaning not to him. Jesus says his sayings are not his, but the Fathers, why didn’t Jesus say my sayings are not mine, but OURS, my Father and I.

This refutes Shamouns silly made up explanation. Also if Jesus and the Father were working completely together as Shamoun says, then they would be SHARING things with each other, however so, the Father is GIVING things to Jesus, meaning they don’t belong to Jesus but rather they belong to the Father. By sharing, I mean that they both possess the great power and so on, both equally have it etc. As we see they don’t, since the Father gives Jesus EVERYTHING, not a few things, but EVERYTHING.

He Wrote

Jesus does nothing on his own but can do everything that his Father does. In order for Jesus to do the works of the Father he must be God since the Father does only what God can do. This becomes evident from what Jesus continues to say:

"Just as the Father raises up the dead and gives them life so the Son also gives life to whomever He is pleased to give it. Even the Father judges no one; for he has given all judgment entirely into the hands of the Son; So that all men give honor to the Son, JUST AS THEY GIVE HONOR TO THE FATHER. Whoever does not honor the Son, does not honor the Father Who sent Him... Believe Me when I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, The time is coming and is here now when the dead SHALL HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD, AND THOSE WHO HEAR IT SHALL LIVE." John 5:21-23, 25

My Response

Actually, the only way in which Jesus can do the Father's works is if the Father gives him the power which he did so:

Did you forget that? I think you did.

Shamoun then quotes:

It seems Shamoun's main two points from the verses are:

1- Jesus is supposed to be honored as the Father

2- Whoever hears the voice of Jesus shall live

Response to point one is simple, yes people are supposed to honor Jesus like the Father, we should obey Jesus, we should believe in Jesus, we should not insult him, or any other bad thing.

Now Shamoun believes we must honor Jesus EXACTLY as the Father. This is his own belief, however so it is wrong, why? Well the Father is greater than Jesus:

"You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you ' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." John 14:28

How do you honor the son exactly as the Father when the Father is greater than him? Secondly, Jesus taught people how to pray to God, not to himself, so how can we honor Jesus exactly as the Father when Jesus never taught us to pray to him?

as to point two, yes whoever hears the voice of Jesus, while he used to preach, and believed in what he taught, then they would certainly live, and by live this means going to heaven. Since we all know, if you do not believe in the prophets of God, then you shall not go to heaven, because you must believe in them since what they preach is God's word!

Now Shamoun will say the verse says the DEAD, meaning people in their graves, well not really, the dead in this verse could be referring to the spiritually dead people, and as Shamoun himself believes, the term dead does not always mean physical death but a spiritual death. So when the spiritually dead people hear the voice of Jesus, and believe in his teachings and so on, they will be saved and go to Heaven.

He Wrote

Jesus makes claims that only God can make. Furthermore, if Shabir had read the entire New Testament clearly, he would have discovered that the Bible attributes the power to perform miracles to all three Persons of the Godhead:

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father and that the Father is in Me? What I am telling you I do not say of My authority, but the Father Who lives in Me does His works." John 14:10

"And Jesus summoned to Him His twelve disciples and gave them power over unclean spirits, to drive them out, and to cure all kinds of sicknesses... Jesus sent out these twelve, charging them, Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and do not go into any town of the Samaritans. But go rather to the sheep of Israel. And as you go, preach saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand! Cure the sick; raise the dead; cleanse lepers; drive out demons..." Matthew 10:1, 5-8

"But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out the demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." Matthew 12:28

My Response

How do any of those verses prove Jesus is God? Or how do they even show all 3 persons of the trinity working together! They show that Jesus is not God! They show something Muslims already knew, that God is actually really doing the work, not Jesus. Notice Shamoun quotes verses showing that it is really the Father doing all the work through Jesus, hence these verses refute Shamoun’s entire position on Jesus being God, he simply affirms a point that we already knew, that God was doing the miracles through his prophet Jesus.

He Wrote

This is precisely what a Trinitarian expects to find, passages affirming that all three Persons are able to do only what God can do. A Trinitarian also expects to find the very point these passages serve to prove, namely, that all three Persons perform the same functions together in perfect unity.

My Response

You find nothing, but you lie only. In none of the passages you quote do we see what you claim, you are just making lies up with your false interpretations. Shamoun claims that all three members of the trinity are really working together etc. Yet as I showed from Jesus’ own words, he claimed that everything belonged to HIS FATHER, he should’ve said belong to US if we are to take Shamoun’s explanation.

On a side note, Jesus could not do EVERYTHING God could, God knows everything and knows what will happen in the future, something Jesus fails on:

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

As you can see, Jesus is not all knowing and cannot tell everything that will happen in the future, something God can, hence Shamoun is wrong when he claims Jesus can do everything God can.

He Wrote

One thing that Shabir interestingly fails to comment on is Jesus' ability to infuse life to inanimate objects in precisely the same way God fashioned the first man and made him a living soul:

"... In that I make (Arabic- aniii `akhluqu) for you Out of clay, as it were, The figure of a bird, And breathe into it, And it becomes a bird By God's permission..." Sura 3:49

Compare Jesus' ability to create with the way God created Adam:

"Behold! Thy Lord said To the angels: `I am about To create man (Arabic- `inni khaaliqum-basharam) from sounding clay From mud moulded into shape; When I have fashioned him (In due proportion) and breathed Into him of My spirit, Fall ye down in obeisance Unto him." Sura 15:28-29

My Response

Actually Shabir did not miss anything, you simply take the verse out of context, the very verse you quote refutes what your trying to argue! Since I have already dealt with these arguments by you, I shall simply quote from one of my rebuttals:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_45.htm

and he shall be a prophet to the people of Israel (saying), that I have come to you, with a sign from God, namely, that I will CREATE for you out of clay (annee AKHLUQU lakum mina ALTTEENI) as though it were the form of a bird, and I will blow thereon and it shall become a bird by God's permission; and I will heal the blind from birth, and lepers; and I will bring the dead to life by God's permission; and I will tell you what you eat and what ye store up in your houses. Verily, in that is a sign for you if ye be believers. S. 3:49 Palmer

When God shall say, O Jesus son of Mary, remember my favour towards thee, and towards thy mother; when I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, that thou shouldest speak unto men in the cradle, and when thou wast grown up; and when I taught thee the scripture, and wisdom, and the law, and the gospel; and when thou didst CREATE of clay (wa-ith TAKHLUQU mina ALTTEENI) as it were the figure of a bird, by my permission, and didst breathe thereon, and it became a bird by my permission; and thou didst heal one blind from his birth, and the leper, by my permission; and when thou didst bring forth the dead [from their graves], by my permission; and when I with-held the children of Israel from [killing] thee, when thou hadst come unto them with evident [miracles], and such of them as believed not, said, this is nothing but manifest sorcery. S. 5:110 Sale

These two passages demonstrate that Christ has the breath of life and can create in exactly the same way God creates:

HE it is Who created you from clay (Huwa allathee KHALAQAKUM min TEENIN) and then HE decreed a term. And there is another term fixed with HIM. Yet you doubt. S. 6:2 Y. Ali

Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from clay (innee KHALIQUN basharan min TEENIN): When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him." S. 38:71-72 Y. Ali

Note the connection between God breathing his Spirit into man with Christ being strengthened with the Holy Spirit, breathing life into clay birds and resurrecting the dead. And also notice that Christ created a living bird from clay just as God created man from clay. These passages therefore teach that Christ had the same life-giving Spirit of God!

My Response

I find it truly sad that Shamoun has to twist things around and cannot simply read the passages he quotes a bit more carefully. I will re post those verses which he showed on Jesus; however this time I will highlight the points Shamoun conveniently leaves out.

and he shall be a prophet to the people of Israel (saying), that I have come to you, with a SIGN FROM GOD, namely, that I will CREATE for you out of clay (annee AKHLUQU lakum mina ALTTEENI) as though it were the form of a bird, and I will blow thereon and it shall become a bird by God's permission; and I will heal the blind from birth, and lepers; and I will bring the dead to life by God's permission; and I will tell you what you eat and what ye store up in your houses. Verily, in that is a sign for you if ye be believers. S. 3:49 Palmer

Those very words there refute Shamoun’s entire argument. Note that even before Jesus performs the miracle he says that IT IS FROM GOD. How can Shamoun miss that? Before Jesus performs the great miracle he makes sure to tell everybody it’s not really him doing it!

Now note the earlier passages Shamoun quoted:

Is He then Who creates like him who does not create? Do you not then mind?... And those whom they call on besides Allah have not created anything while they are themselves created; Dead (are they), not living, and they know not when they shall be raised. S. 16:17, 20-21 Shakir

And they have taken besides Him gods, who do not create anything while they are themselves created, and they control not for themselves any harm or profit, and they control not death nor life, nor raising (the dead) to life. S. 25:3 Shakir

As we can see, Jesus fails that criteria, Allah does not need someone to give him these great powers, Allah ALONE does it, and he is not given it. Allah is in control of everything, as we see Jesus is not in control since it is Allah giving him the power and miracle.

Now also note the verses say that all this happens by Allah’s permission. So not only is Allah giving this miracle to Jesus, he is allowing the miracle to work, so hence Jesus really is not doing anything. This once again does not contradict the earlier verses at all, since Allah ALONE does what he wills, and he doesn’t need no permission or help from anybody else. Allah is independent, as we see Jesus is not, he is completely dependant on Allah for all the miracles he has. Had Jesus performed the miracle on his own, without any one else’s permission, then the Christians would have a case.

As for Christ having a life giving spirit, this is just nonsense on Shamoun’s part, the verse says things become alive by Jesus only by Allah’s permission, hence it is not really Jesus who is giving life it is Allah, put this with the fact that Allah is giving Jesus this power. Shamoun has no case or argument. Jesus’ breath doesn’t give life, it is Allah’s will and power that allows Jesus’ breath to give life, Shamoun seems to forget this.

So as we clearly see, the verse Shamoun brings up to help his case actually refutes him twice in just the space of a few words! How ironic!

He Wrote

This echoes what the Apostle Paul said in reference to Jesus' ability to give life to others:

"Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam (Christ) a life-giving spirit." 1 Corinthians 15:45

My Response

Paul’s teaching is irrelevant to me.

He Wrote

Hence, this is the closest the Quran comes to acknowledging the fact that Jesus is God since he is able to do what God alone does, create and give life.

My Response

You wish!

He Wrote