Author Topic: my reply to " almost every christian is going to hell" posted by QuranSearchCom  (Read 18101 times)

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Offline TheEyeofGod

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1. You said it there that the bible has been corrupted.
     Just because the authors are mysterious.

My Answer:- those who are of the spirit(Holy spirit) knows what of the spirit. You can never understand because you're not of the spirit. Mind you each and every books of the bible has its own writer/author .

2. You said we  christians might think we are going to heaven but not, because we think as soon as they believe that Jesus died on the cross for our  sins, and that he is our savior, then we will go to Heaven."
 
My Answer:-  pls read these. Isaiah 53:6, “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him(Jesus Christ)  the iniquity of us all. Romans 3:10, “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.”
*.Romans 3:23, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”. These verses shows that we have sinned against God, and the wrath of God is on everyone. Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
*.Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.”
 Now! .Jesus paid that price by dying on the cross and by  shedding His blood just to redeem us from our sins.
  1st Peter 1:18-19, “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ...and in John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
*.and we are all hoping to go to Heaven to go and meet God(father), we can only go through Jesus Christ.

YOu also said that matt 7v22ff says " "Many will say to me (Jesus) on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'  Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you.  Away from me, you evildoers!'.

Those people that Jesus was referring to are the one that are using another power except Jesus power, but are calling the name of Jesus, just to deceive the world that after all they are calling the name of the Lord, as we can in the world now that's what people are doing now. So this is what Jesus meant in matt 7v22ff.

You also said in Deuteronomy 22:22 and others "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.   
And you also said that this will make christian go to hell in Matthew 19:9 others "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.".

Let see the book of Matt 5 v 31 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Formerly according to moses law , it said if husband and wife should divorce, they should give themselves a signed letter with the reason(s). But Jesus now said here that that must not  be , or else he caught his wife sleeping with another man, then He can divorce her, regardless of other sins.
Note: Matt 19v 7 "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"v 8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. ... Hope this help you?

And about the book of Revelation that you said it has no author. But why can't you people read the first chapter of the book? Revelation 1v 1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. The Apostle John is the author of the Book of Revelation. He wrote it when he was about 92 years old, while a prisoner of Rome on the remote desert penal colony of Patmos, an island in the Aegean Sea.
Patmos was a quarry mine for the Roman Empire, and was home to many political and religious prisoners or slaves. John, the beloved apostle of Jesus, was being held as a prisoner of Rome on this island for his incessant preaching about Jesus. Rome believed that banishing the old man John to the remote and forsaken island of Patmos, that his voice would be quieted. John was aged in years, and close to the end of his life, probably sent to Patmos in the year 95 by the Roman emperor Domitian, who was reportedly angry at the fact that John was not killed when he was dipped in boiling oil. Since John was a contemporary of Jesus, John would have been by that time, well over 90 years old - making him very likely the only apostle to survive to such an old age. The rest of Jesus apostles and disciples were martyred decades earlier.  God supernaturally preserved John to bare record of The Revelation!
So ming you.... It was on Patmos that John wrote down in a scroll all that "he saw and heard". John's sworn testimony about how he received the messages is given in the first chapter. So this state it clear that it was John the apostle that wrote the book of Revelation

Warning please : do silent where bible is silent and speak where bible speaks .
“If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God” (1 Peter 4:11
“Whoever speaks must do so as one speaking the very words of God” (1 Peter 4:11
I cor 4 v6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

Waiting for your reply(s).
 Thanks

Offline QuranSearchCom

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As'salamu Alaikum brother TheEyeofGod,

Welcome to the blog.  I ask Allah Almighty that He will continue to lead you to the Right Path and Truth and Light of Islam.  Ameen.  The following points thoroughly refute your points above, and prove that without Islam to validate it, the Bible isn't reliable at all.  The following points are from:

www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm#paul
www.answering-christianity.com/bible_sinless_men.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1498.msg5824/topicseen.html#msg5824
www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah_53.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac6.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm#capsule


1-  The Disciples were in conflict with each others.  Examples:

-  Sacrificed food to idols: Is it allowed or not to be eaten?
-  The 12th diciples was chosen by a game of chance, not by the Holy Spirit.  And there were disputes over him.
-  Paul was called a false prophet.
-  Peter was called "clearly in the wrong".
-  Circumcision:  Was it mandatory or not?
-  Paul and Barnabas and Mark were one team against the other disciples.  The other side was lead by Peter and others.
-  Yet, when the disciples asked Jesus if the Holy Spirit, that he promised to send them after him, if It will speak in riddles and parables like he used to speak to them, and confuse them, Jesus assured them that the Holy Spirit:

      -  Will speak very clearly and straight to them.
      -  Will guide them all the way.
      -  They must fully rely on it.


-  Yet, we see all of these conflicts and disputes and confusions among them.  So where was the Holy Spirit from all of these conflicts??

-  And these are unsettled issues in the Bible till this day!  They are open debates that are unsettled in the Bible.

-  Paul wanted to be a ruling dictator.
   -  He wanted to kill those whom he disagreed with.
   -  He wanted to be the ruling authority that makes judgment about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment.



2-  Furthermore, the disciples books and epistles are not agreed upon:

-  There are epistles and books in the names of John, Paul, Peter and others that are excluded from the Bible.
-  Jesus' Teachings books, such as the Gospel of Jesus and the Didache and other books are excluded from the Bible, because they refute trinity.
-  Jesus' family's accounts are excluded from the Bible.
What do Christians know about Jesus?  Jesus supposedly lived for 33 years on earth. 

   -  He lived the first 5 or so in Palestine, then fled to Egypt with his Mother and Joseph because king Herod wanted to kill him.  No historical account of this story by the way is found anywhere outside the Bible.
   -  Jesus returned to Palestine in his late 20s, perhaps even at the age of 30.
   -  Jesus lived the overwhelming majority of his earthly life in Egypt, and yet, not a single account about him in that land.  What was he doing there?  Did he work?  Was he a carpenter?

3-  Furthermore, Jesus the human fell into satan's temptation for 40 days and 40 nights, and was dying in his coveting of the worldly desires:

-  The Bible says that those who are tempted have "evil desires" in them.
-  The Bible says that Jesus fell spiritually so weak that GOD Almighty had to send down Angels "to attend him", because he was getting spiritually weaker and weaker.
-  Satan had Jesus climb on the top of the temple (a big fortress at that time), and look like he was about to commit suicide in front of all of the people in Jerusalem.
-  Jesus had so much worldly desires during his 40 days and 40 nights temptations that they most certainly were coveting of the world.
-  Yet, coveting is forbidden in the Bible's Old and New Testaments.
-  Jesus himself said that if you even sin in your mind, then you have already physically sinned:

   -  If you even think of a woman in your head lustfully, then you have already committed adultery with her.
   -  Yet, Jesus coveted the world and he did those exact mental sins from lusting, to greed to rule the world, and others.

-  Also, did Jesus the male who lived 33 years on earth ever masturbate?

   -  He was a human, who ate and peed (urinated) and pooped (took dumps).
   -  He was a human who felt hungry and weak and in need.

-  Also, when Jesus was a baby, was he dumb?  Meaning, was he unable to speak as all of our babies initially are?  Did he need to be taught the language by his Mother?

   -  He did work as a carpenter.  This means he had to learn the skill first from his step father, Joseph.

-  Also, when Jesus was a baby, did he have to learn how to walk?  Was he ever discplined as a child?

-  Did Jesus' mother ever believe that he was her creator??

   -  Did Jesus' immediate family from siblings and mom and step dad ever believe he was their Creator??
   -  Their writings are excluded from the Bible, because they all don't talk about trinity at all.  Their books invalidate it entirely.

4-  Jesus according to the Bible never got crucified:

-  Isaiah 53 speaks about him being condemned because of the sins of the Jews.
-  Isaiah 53 says he will be jailed (not killed) because of the sins and lies of the Jews.
-  Isaiah 53 say she will be sentenced to death, but his life will be prolonged (extended).  He won't die.
-  Palm 91 and 116 and 118 clearly speak about Christ will be lifted by the Angels and no harm will ever touch him from the crucifixion.
-  Psalm 91 was directly referenced in the New Testament by Jesus and satan during their conversation.
-  The New Testament speaks about the story of Jesus' alleged crucifixion and confirms that he was never crucified:

    -  He never died, and he even showed his original body to the disciples and the doubting Thomas.
    -  He was put in a tomb, not a grave underground, and laid there for a couple of days (less than 3 days) and received medical treatment by Mary Magdalene and other women.
    -  After he healed, he got up and left the tomb.
    -  He's always been alive in it.

5-  Prophet Muhammad was clearly and thoroughly prophesied in the Bible:

     -  The Old Testament references in Isaiah 41 and 42 and in many other books throughout the Old Testament about the Arabian Prophet who will come:

         -  From the lands of Kedar and Teman.  Those today are located in central Arabia.
         -  From the bloodline of Kedar.  Kedar was one of Ishmael's sons, in the book of Genesis.

      -  The Prophet will bring the Message to mankind.
      -  The Jews ("the House of Jacob") must not reject him, nor fear him.  This is a direct order for them by GOD Almighty in the Bible.
      -  He will smash the idols of Arabia.
      -  He will put Arabia to the sword.
      -  "The burden is upon Arabia."  This verse is interpreted in the Bible as a Divine Message or Task was put upon Arabia.  Burden in the Bible means a Divine Task from GOD Almighty, usually a monumental one.
      -  Prophet Muhammad's Prophetic Name, Ahmed, was found in ITS EXACT FORM IN THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS in their Isaiah 42.  Meaning, the Dead Sea Scroll's Isaiah 42 book.  Ahmed or AHMAD was mentioned by the name there.  And in the Bible's Isaiah 42, we see GOD Almighty speaking about His Servant who will come from Arabia, and the land of Kedar.
      -  He will be given the "Book".  This is the Glorious Quran.
      -  He will initially be told to read It, and he won't be able to.  The Bible foretold it, and this is exactly documented on Prophet Muhammad's first reception of the Revelations in our Islamic Texts.


So to put it all together, your faith is false and man-made.  Islam is the Divine Truth.  Again, visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm#paul
www.answering-christianity.com/bible_sinless_men.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1498.msg5824/topicseen.html#msg5824
www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah_53.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac6.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm#capsule


And last and not least, I would like to invite you to visit the following link to see the Overwhelming Scientific Miracles of the Glorious Quran, to see how Islam's True Miracle is Everlasting and forever and ever.  It wasn't just a mere limited Miracle such as parting the sea or healing the sick that no one today could prove it.  The Glorious Quran's Miracle is in It, and It is for all times and all places and all ages.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

Also, the following detailed article is the website's #1 article.  It has what you need to convince you that Islam is 100% the Divine Truth of GOD Almighty:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline gandalf the white

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this is funny, did anyone ever ask a chritian about what happend to those who lived before isa came ?? did they all go to hell ? if so, then the christians worship a mad devil.

Offline MuslimBoy

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this is funny, did anyone ever ask a chritian about what happend to those who lived before isa came ?? did they all go to hell ? if so, then the christians worship a mad devil.
Yeah!! And some christians even say that every prophet before Jesus are in hell(Including Abraham, David, Elias and others)!! What a ridiculous thing? the Prophets who had done a lot of service for God how can be they are in hell? According to this Even the so-Called chosen People (Jews) are also in hell. It Really it seems a pagan thinking.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 05:25:10 AM by MuslimBoy »

Offline Hassan Abdulghani

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My Answer:- those who are of the spirit(Holy spirit) knows what of the spirit. You can never understand because you're not of the spirit. Mind you each and every books of the bible has its own writer/author .

- Look my friend , There are more than 5000 manuscripts which contain all or part of the New Testament. No two agree on all particulars. In other words no single manuscript contains the original, unaltered text in its entirety. 
I challenge any pastor in the world to come on a stage and pretend that this copy of the bible is the full word of God , I bet you he cannot ! .. I said you see , whenever you read the most popular version of the bible KJV or NIV , or RSV , you will be seeing a couple of footnotes [a] or and whenever you see them , it means that this version has removed blah blah from that manuscript ! .. So that is a change in the word of God , people are supposedly updating just like updating KJV to NKJV ! ...

As far as the authors , let me show you some books of the bible that have no author  :


Book

Author

Judges

Possibly Samuel

Ruth

Perhaps Samuel

1st Samuel

Unknown

2nd Samuel

Unknown

1st Kings

Unknown

2nd Kings

Unknown

1st Chronicles

Unknown

Esther

Unknown

Job

Unknown

Ecclesiastes

Doubtful

Jonath

Unknown

Malachi

Nothing known

 

The above information can be found in the appendix entitled "Books of the Bible" of the Revised Standard Version of the Bible.


Visit : http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Bible/Text/modappr.html


Offline TheEyeofGod

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this is funny, did anyone ever ask a chritian about what happend to those who lived before isa came ?? did they all go to hell ? if so, then the christians worship a mad devil.
Yeah!! And some christians even say that every prophet before Jesus are in hell(Including Abraham, David, Elias and others)!! What a ridiculous thing? the Prophets who had done a lot of service for God how can be they are in hell? According to this Even the so-Called chosen People (Jews) are also in hell. It Really it seems a pagan thinking.



Book.   Writer.   Date Completed.   Time Covered.  Place Written
*Genesis Moses.     1513.           to 1657 B.C.   Wilderness
*Exodus. Moses.     1512.        1657-1512.    Wilderness
*Leviticus. Moses.  1512.   1 month [1512]. Wilderness
*Job.      Moses.      c. 1473.                                    Wilderness
Over 140 years between 1657 and 1473
*Numbers. Moses.  1473.   1512-1473.  Wilderness / Plains of Moab
*Deuteronomy. Moses. 1473 . 2 months [1473]
Plains of Moab
* Joshua.  Joshua. c. 1450.  1473– c. 1450.   Canaan
*Judges. Samuel.  c. 1100. c. 1450– c. 1120.  Israel
*Ruth. Samuel.  c. 1090. 11 years of Judges’ rule
Israel
*1 Samuel. Samuel; Gad; Nathan
                                   c. 1078.  c. 1180-1078.          Israel
*2 Samuel.  Gad; Nathan.    c. 1040.    1077–c. 1040
                                                                                               Israel
*Song of Solomon. Solomon.  c. 1020.            Jerusalem
*Ecclesiastes.  Solomon.  b. 1000.                   Jerusalem
*Jonah.   Jonah.    c. 844
*Joel.       Joel.       c. 820.                                        Judah
*Amos.   Amos.         c. 804.                                  Judah
*Hosea.    Hosea.       a. 745.    b. 804– a. 745. Samaria.                                                                                                     (District)
*Isaiah.   Isaiah.   a. 732.  c. 778– a. 732.   Jerusalem
*Micah.    Micah.    b. 717.   c. 777-717.       Judah
*Proverbs. Solomon; Agur; Lemuel.   c. 717.  Jerusalem
*Zephaniah.  Zephaniah.  b. 648.                    Judah
*Nahum.   Nahum.          b. 632.                         Judah
*Habakkuk. Habakkuk.  c. 628.                       Judah
*Lamentations. Jeremiah.  607.                Nr. Jerusalem
*Obadiah.      Obadiah.         c. 607
*Ezekiel.           Ezekiel.     c. 591.    613–c. 591.  Babylon
1 and 2 Kings. Jeremiah. 580. c. 1040-580.    Judah/Egypt
*Jeremiah. Jeremiah. 580. 647-580.                Judah/Egypt
*Daniel. Daniel. c. 536. 618–c. 536.                 Babylon
*Haggai. Haggai. 520. 112 days (520).            Jerusalem
*Zechariah.  Zechariah. 518.  520-518.        Jerusalem
*Esther.    Mordecai. c. 475. 493–c. 475. Shushan, Elam
*1 and 2 Chronicles. Ezra. c. 460. After 1 Chronicles 9:44, 1077-537
Jerusalem
*Ezra. Ezra.  c. 460.  537–c. 467.                      Jerusalem
*Psalms.     David and others.   c. 460
*Nehemiah.  Nehemiah.   a. 443.    456–a. 443.  Jerusalem
*Malachi.    Malachi.      a. 443.                          Jerusalem
*Matthew.   Matthew.   c. 41.  2 B.C.– 33 A.D.     Palestine
*1 Thessalonians. Paul. c. 50.                                Corinth
*2 Thessalonians.  Paul. c. 51.                               Corinth
*Galatians.    Paul.     c. 50-52.   Corinth or Syr. Antioch
*1 Corinthians. Paul. c. 55.                                   Ephesus
*2 Corinthians. Paul. c. 55.                                  Macedonia
*Romans.    Paul.         c. 56.                                     Corinth
*Luke.    Luke.     c. 56-58.   3 B.C.– 34 AD.           Caesarea
*Ephesians.  Paul.  c. 60-61.                                    Rome
*Colossians.  Paul.    c. 60-61.                                  Rome
*Philemon.   Paul.      c. 60-61.                             Rome
*Philippians.   Paul.   c. 60-61.                            Rome
*Hebrews.   Paul.         c. 61.                                  Rome
*Acts.        Luke.              c. 61.   34–c. 62 AD.    Caesarea
*James.  James (Jesus’ brother) b. 62.       Jerusalem
*Mark.   Mark.     c. 60-65.   30-34AD.           Rome
*1 Timothy.  Paul.      c. 61-64.                    Macedonia
*Titus.         Paul.          c. 61-64.               Macedonia
*1 Peter.   Peter.       c. 62-64.                   Babylon
*2 Peter.  Peter.          c. 64.                   Babylon
*2 Timothy.   Paul.  c. 65.                     Rome
*Jude.   Jude (Jesus’ brother). c. 65.   Palestine
*Revelation.  Apostle John. c. 96.        Patmos
*John.          Apostle John.      c. 98., 30-34 AD.
Ephesus, or near
*1 John.  Apostle John.   c. 98.    Ephesus, or near
*2 John.  Apostle John.     c. 98.   Ephesus, or near
*3 John.  Apostle John.  c. 98.      Ephesus, or near

Offline TheEyeofGod

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this is funny, did anyone ever ask a chritian about what happend to those who lived before isa came ?? did they all go to hell ? if so, then the christians worship a mad devil.
Yeah!! And some christians even say that every prophet before Jesus are in hell(Including Abraham, David, Elias and others)!! What a ridiculous thing? the Prophets who had done a lot of service for God how can be they are in hell? According to this Even the so-Called chosen People (Jews) are also in hell. It Really it seems a pagan thinking.


What you don't know is that, three days that Jesus used in the grave, he was preaching to them, I mean the dead ones

Offline QuranSearchCom

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As'salamu Alaikum everyone,

Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm, to see from the Bible commentaries how almost every single book and gospel of the Bible was:

1-  Written by mysterious people.
2-  Written in unknown places.
3-  Written in unknown dates.
4-  Written by an unknown number of people.
5-  Edited and altered in unknown times, and no one knows what parts were altered or edited.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline MuslimBoy

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this is funny, did anyone ever ask a chritian about what happend to those who lived before isa came ?? did they all go to hell ? if so, then the christians worship a mad devil.
Yeah!! And some christians even say that every prophet before Jesus are in hell(Including Abraham, David, Elias and others)!! What a ridiculous thing? the Prophets who had done a lot of service for God how can be they are in hell? According to this Even the so-Called chosen People (Jews) are also in hell. It Really it seems a pagan thinking.


What you don't know is that, three days that Jesus used in the grave, he was preaching to them, I mean the dead ones
Brother Can you give me the refrence from "Bible" to support your claim?? and I Heard from many Christians that Jesus was suffering in Hell for sins of Adam and Mankind. so who is right? you? or they?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 04:43:20 AM by MuslimBoy »

Offline TheEyeofGod

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Hmmm my eminence brothers,  I don't have much to say again, because I've realized that you're here for arguments, so disappointing I don't have time now, I still have some things to do.                                                                                  But I will like you to read this scripture carefully.    1corinthians 2.
v6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But, as it is written,
"What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him"—

10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.. So these verses helped us to know those who could understand God's words.       Pls try to let the truth set you free, because you've known the truth already(Jesus). Jesus loves you. Thanks

Offline shabeer_hassan

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#9 But, as it is written,
"What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him"— ....................
&&
#10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. .........

IS SPIRIT LEAD US TO LIE?
2 Chronicles 18:21

New International Version
"'I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. "'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'

New Living Translation
"And the spirit replied, 'I will go out and inspire all of Ahab's prophets to speak lies.' "'You will succeed,' said the LORD. 'Go ahead and do it.'
1 Kings 22:23

New International Version
"So now the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

#Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God......
John 4:24 ESV /

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”


I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TWO COMMENTS:TWO COMMENTS ARE COMPLETELY CONTRADICTION TO EACH OTHER :

Creator and Creations:

Islam does not subscribe to the idea that this universe is just an
illusion. It is real, but it is just a creation which has a beginning
and an end. According to the theory that Universe is just an illusion
it does not need a creator behind it. But the Holy Quran says
that it has a Supreme Creator and all the creations are proclaiming
His purity and truth.
``Whatever is in the heavens and on earth
Let it declare the Praises and glory of Allah,
For He is the exalted in might, the wise’’ (Al Hadid:1)
The preposition that the Creator and the creations are one and
the same is another side of the same coin. islam reaffirms that this
theory is absurd and baseless. The essence of Allah is distinct
from His creations. The God Qur’an present is not one whose
entity is spread over in all His creations. If that be so He has to
have limitations partially. But He is beyond all nature ie., His
essence is distinct from nature. But His knowledge and power
contain and include all things. From the feeblest movement in an
atom to the gigantic explosions of stars are within His power and
control. He is beyond time and space limitations. He is beyond
matter and its limitations. His power stretches to all macro and
micro world.
``To Him belongs the dominion of the heaven and the earth
It is He who gives Life and Death and
He has power over all things He is the first and the last
The evident and hidden
And He has full knowledge of all things’’ (Al Hadid: 2,3)
All the creatures in this world are Allah’s creations. Creator
and creations are not the same. Creation is entirely distinct from
the Creator. It is like a painter and his painting. Painter is not the
painting. Painting is not the painter. From any perspective they
are different. Qur’an uses the words `doonillahi (besides Allah)
and `gairullahi’ (other than Allah) whenever creation are mentioned.
It is clear from these words that creations are absolutely
different from God. All creations including man are different from
the essence of Allah according to the Qur’anic teachings.

Offline TheEyeofGod

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#9 But, as it is written,
"What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him"— ....................
&&
#10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. .........

IS SPIRIT LEAD US TO LIE?
2 Chronicles 18:21

New International Version
"'I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. "'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'

New Living Translation
"And the spirit replied, 'I will go out and inspire all of Ahab's prophets to speak lies.' "'You will succeed,' said the LORD. 'Go ahead and do it.'
1 Kings 22:23

New International Version
"So now the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

#Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God......
John 4:24 ESV /

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”


I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TWO COMMENTS:TWO COMMENTS ARE COMPLETELY CONTRADICTION TO EACH OTHER :

Creator and Creations:

Islam does not subscribe to the idea that this universe is just an
illusion. It is real, but it is just a creation which has a beginning
and an end. According to the theory that Universe is just an illusion
it does not need a creator behind it. But the Holy Quran says
that it has a Supreme Creator and all the creations are proclaiming
His purity and truth.
``Whatever is in the heavens and on earth
Let it declare the Praises and glory of Allah,
For He is the exalted in might, the wise’’ (Al Hadid:1)
The preposition that the Creator and the creations are one and
the same is another side of the same coin. islam reaffirms that this
theory is absurd and baseless. The essence of Allah is distinct
from His creations. The God Qur’an present is not one whose
entity is spread over in all His creations. If that be so He has to
have limitations partially. But He is beyond all nature ie., His
essence is distinct from nature. But His knowledge and power
contain and include all things. From the feeblest movement in an
atom to the gigantic explosions of stars are within His power and
control. He is beyond time and space limitations. He is beyond
matter and its limitations. His power stretches to all macro and
micro world.
``To Him belongs the dominion of the heaven and the earth
It is He who gives Life and Death and
He has power over all things He is the first and the last
The evident and hidden
And He has full knowledge of all things’’ (Al Hadid: 2,3)
All the creatures in this world are Allah’s creations. Creator
and creations are not the same. Creation is entirely distinct from
the Creator. It is like a painter and his painting. Painter is not the
painting. Painting is not the painter. From any perspective they
are different. Qur’an uses the words `doonillahi (besides Allah)
and `gairullahi’ (other than Allah) whenever creation are mentioned.
It is clear from these words that creations are absolutely
different from God. All creations including man are different from
the essence of Allah according to the Qur’anic teachings.


According to the bible references you mentioned 1king 22:23 and 2chro 18:21. God allowed the spirit to speak lie out of Ahab's prophets mouth not God's chosen prophet note that, to lead him(ahab) to destruction because of his sin.
Secondly, And who are we to say that this is wrong? In the
words of Paul, "Who are you, O man, to talk
back to God?" (Rom. 9:20, NIV). Who are you
and I to judge God's actions wrong? "All the
peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He
does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and
the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his
hand or say to him: What have you done?" (Dan.
4:35, NIV). So you can never quarry God for doing that.

******
God has created all the human race as free
moral agents. "Choose ye," has been His policy
from the beginning. "Choose for yourselves this
day whom you will serve." This same choice was
open to Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Saul and
David–and Ahab. In fact, we can read where
Ahab had many opportunities to choose. And
time after time he chose the wrong. Time after
time he made himself God's enemy.
But did God in using Ahab's prophets to
persuade him to go up to battle at Ramoth-
Gilead practice some form of deception? Did He
persuade Ahab against Ahab's will?
The story is found in First Kings 22. It involves
the two divided kingdoms: Israel to the north,
under the leadership of the infamous Ahab; and
Judah, the southern portion, under King
Jehoshaphat. Syria was a strong foreign power
north and east of Israel. Ramoth-Gilead, which
lay east of Israel across the Jordan, was the land
in question at the time: and all the broad fertile
fields of Ramoth-Gilead belonged to Syria. Ahab
could not forget that the prosperous land used
to belong to Israel. The same jealous eye that
coveted Naboth's vineyard coveted Ramoth-
Gilead.
At this point Ahab's decision was made: He
wanted Ramoth-Gilead and he would have it. He
would ask no one's advice; he would go and
fight for it himself. He invited Jehoshaphat to
join him in the venture, and Jehoshaphat
consented. But Jehoshaphat suggested that a
few formalities might be in order: Should not
the King of Israel inquire of the Lord?
Whereupon Ahab gathered four hundred of his
"yes-men prophets" (not true prophets of the
Lord) around him. No problem. They all said
just as they were supposed to, and the King was
flattered.
But Jehoshaphat was not satisfied. "Is there not
a prophet of the Lord here whom we can
inquire (1 Kings 22:7, NIV). Ahab agreed
reluctantly, and sent Micaiah.
The prophecy from the Lord was just what
Ahab had expected -no good. The whole
enterprise was to be ill-fated....it would even
cost Ahab his life. Israel would be left as sheep
without a shepherd.
The determined King Ahab had heard enough.
But Micaiah said more. His message was a
flashback of what had already happened. He
related the details of the prophetic vision the
Lord had given him. He saw in vision the Lord
holding a conference with his "spirits" (or
"angels"–see Ps. 104:4: Heb. 1:7). The subject of
the conference was to decide upon a plan
whereby Ahab would be persuaded to go up to
Ramoth-Gilead and be killed. One angel had the
acceptable idea ...... he would go and "be a lying
spirit in the mouths of all his [Ahab's]
prophets" (l Kings 22:22, NIV). Then Micaiah
concluded his message of doom to the wicked
king: "So now the Lord has put a lying spirit in
the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The
Lord has decreed disaster for you" (l Kings
22:23, NIV).
We know that God is just and righteous in all
His dealings. He never compels any to sin
against their will: for He is "not wanting anyone
to perish, but everyone to come to
repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9, NIV). Constantly He is
imploring that we forsake the evil and love the
good (Amos 5:14-15). This was the principal
message delivered by His prophets: "Wash the
evil from your heart and be saved." "If you had
responded to my rebuke, I would have poured
out my heart to you and made my thoughts
known to you." "Rid yourselves of all the
offenses you have committed .... Repent! Turn
away from all your offenses" (Jer. 4:!4: Prov.
1:23; Ezek. 18:31, 30, NIV).
All are free to choose their own course of action.
And so was Ahab. The Lord was exceedingly
longsuffering to tolerate Ahab's evil devising as
long as He did. In the instance of Ahab's going to
battle at Ramoth-Gilead, the Lord did nothing to
persuade Ahab until Ahab had already, made up
his own mind to do evil. In fact, the whole
scheme was of Ahab's devising. God did not
originate the sin, He simply permitted it: and in
the Hebrew's vocabulary, what God permitted
He was said to do. Therefore we read that the
Lord moved Ahab's prophets to persuade the
wicked king to "attack Ramoth Gilead and be
victorious," thus confirming the king in his
wicked plan. And the Lord, knowing through
divine foreknowledge what the outcome would
be, saw fit to use this permission to advance His
plan, i.e., to allow Ahab to be removed from the
scene of action.
We must remember that God is supreme in the
affairs of men. All things which happen are
things which He allows; therefore He may be
said to do or cause what happens because those
events fit into His eternal purpose. He is
supreme, and when anyone proves to be
steadfastly minded against Him, He has the
right and the power to see that such a one's
opportunity is given to another who may
comply more nearly with the will of the Lord.
He does this "so that the living may know that
the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of
men and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets
over them the lowliest of men" (Dan. 4:17, NIV).
"The authorities that exist have been
established by God"; therefore, it is within the
Lord's rights to depose whom He will, and raise
up whom He will, according to His overall
purpose (Rom. 13:1-4, NIV).
And who are we to say that this is wrong? In the
words of Paul, "Who are you, O man, to talk
back to God?" (Rom. 9:20, NIV). Who are you
and I to judge God's actions wrong? "All the
peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He
does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and
the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his
hand or say to him: What have you done?" (Dan.
4:35, NIV). He is omnipotent, and whole nations
before Him are as "a drop in a bucket," even
"worthless and less than nothing" unless they
voluntarily place themselves under His
authority and become worthy of His protection
and blessing.*******

Note the spirit of God (not worldly spirit) will let us to understand good things of this life and life to come
Read again 1 corinthians 2 " 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?"But we have the mind of Christ.. Thanks

Offline QuranSearchCom

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According to the bible references you mentioned 1king 22:23 and 2chro 18:21. God allowed the spirit to speak lie out of Ahab's prophets mouth not God's chosen prophet note that, to lead him(ahab) to destruction because of his sin.

Brother TheEyeofGod,

You don't even know your own scriptures.  GOD Almighty not only sent in the past lying spirits, but He also turned David's women into prostitutes because of David's sins.  Please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/was_muta_immoral.htm


Take care,
Osama Abdallah


Offline TheEyeofGod

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According to the bible references you mentioned 1king 22:23 and 2chro 18:21. God allowed the spirit to speak lie out of Ahab's prophets mouth not God's chosen prophet note that, to lead him(ahab) to destruction because of his sin.
Brother TheEyeofGod,
You don't even know your own scriptures.  GOD Almighty not only sent in the past lying spirits, but He also turned David's women into prostitutes because of David's sins.  Please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/was_muta_immoral.htm


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Hmmmmm good brother ( Osama Abdallah)
I don't even open your link.
    But Yes! God can use your enemies to punish you and your belongings for your sins, or your own belongings to punish you as well , note you mentioned there that "is because of David's sin" so God can never punish you unnecessary or without sin. We can also see that God do punish his people severely  in the Bible especially the Israelites  when they sin against Him, He's using this punishment to correct them so as for them not to fall into the same trap in another time, for instance  if you punish your child because he/she did a wrong thing, he can never do the same another time. When you committed  sins  , that means you've disobeyed God (you are no more in God's side) so if God now punish you because you've sinned, He did that to you, and for you to know that what I've done Is wrong, that I've departed from His way , Is now for you to go back to Him and he will accept you. This king David you mentioned , despite all his sins, although God do punish him but He still love him, because he knows how to seek God's face. So when God want to punish someone for his/her sin , he can use anybody or anything to  punish such person.
But thank God for today, even if we committed sin, and we realised that we've committed and seek His face instantly, He will surely forgive us. That is the Grace we have trough Jesus Christ (God's only begotten Son).
Remember again if God did all this, "Who are you, O man, to talk
back to God?" (Rom. 9:20, NIV). Who are you
and I to judge God's actions wrong? "All the
peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He
does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and
the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his
hand or say to him: What have you done?" (Dan.
4:35, NIV). So you can never quarry God for doing that.
You're blessed!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 03:43:57 PM by TheEyeofGod »

Mahdechase

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According to the bible references you mentioned 1king 22:23 and 2chro 18:21. God allowed the spirit to speak lie out of Ahab's prophets mouth not God's chosen prophet note that, to lead him(ahab) to destruction because of his sin.
Brother TheEyeofGod,
You don't even know your own scriptures.  GOD Almighty not only sent in the past lying spirits, but He also turned David's women into prostitutes because of David's sins.  Please visit:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/was_muta_immoral.htm


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Hmmmmm good brother ( Osama Abdallah)
I don't even open your link.
    But Yes! God can use your enemies to punish you and your belongings for your sins, or your own belongings to punish you as well , note you mentioned there that "is because of David's sin" so God can never punish you unnecessary or without sin. We can also see that God do punish his people severely  in the Bible especially the Israelites  when they sin against Him, He's using this punishment to correct them so as for them not to fall into the same trap in another time, for instance  if you punish your child because he/she did a wrong thing, he can never do the same another time. When you committed  sins  , that means you've disobeyed God (you are no more in God's side) so if God now punish you because you've sinned, He did that to you, and for you to know that what I've done Is wrong, that I've departed from His way , Is now for you to go back to Him and he will accept you. This king David you mentioned , despite all his sins, although God do punish him but He still love him, because he knows how to seek God's face. So when God want to punish someone for his/her sin , he can use anybody or anything to  punish such person.
But thank God for today, even if we committed sin, and we realised that we've committed and seek His face instantly, He will surely forgive us. That is the Grace we have trough Jesus Christ (God's only begotten Son).
Remember again if God did all this, "Who are you, O man, to talk
back to God?" (Rom. 9:20, NIV). Who are you
and I to judge God's actions wrong? "All the
peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He
does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and
the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his
hand or say to him: What have you done?" (Dan.
4:35, NIV). So you can never quarry God for doing that.
You're blessed!

What I am just going to say about this is, you do not even bother to open the link given. That is where the valid argument lies, the least you can do is to analyse what he has written in both article. It is best to be honest, and if you really feel that you are truthful and on the true side, should you not browse the article he has written and maybe, if you think that the allegation made is not true, you could have make a correction for it and reply them to brother Osama Abdullah. What constitute my point here is that if you progress with your point without taking your opponent's point into account that would be futile, I name it beating around the bush. You are not answering his question, nor correcting his stance, if you deliberate your stance for Christianity is candour and honest one.

That is all from me thank you. No, I won't say anything about the argument in your scripture, because I only have studied a little from them. But please, if you really consider yourself a valid proponent of Christendom, then please heed on Osama Abdullah's question and words. Do not yet skip over his point as you assert yours, or your argument on Christianity will be in vain.