Author Topic: WHEN,HOW and by WHOM the Thaurath an Injeel got corrupted?  (Read 2924 times)

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Offline Sh Truthseaker

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Assalamu 'Alaikum.

1)Main question:      WHEN,HOW and by WHOM the Thaurath an Injeel got corrupted?

Other questions:
2)Are they the same as found in old manuscripts?
3)Does the Holy Qur'an say they can't be corrupted?


I have many similar and related doubts which doesn't come to my mind right now.I hope I will get details from here.

I debated with a Christian on FB and I showed him few simple examples of contradictions in Bible and claimed that Bible is corrupted.But he said that the Qur'an says the Thaurath and Injeel can'tbe corrupted,and asked when and by whom they were corrupted,and told we are just repeating what we were taught.
He quoted  Al-Ahqaf[46] verse 30    { "They said, "O our people, we have heard a book revealed after Moses, confirming what came before it; it guides (men) to the truth and to a straight path."  }        and said that in Arabic it says "Bayna Yadayhi" which means "Between his hands" and not "Before it" , and said Prophet (S) had Thaurath with him at his time.

I gave an example of Albaqara:66   and told him that "Between his/its hands" is an Arabic idiom which means "In front of" or "before".But he refuses to believe,and says I don't know Arabic.
Who is right,I or he?


When I refuted his claims of Qur'an contradictions using a video of Ahmed Deedat and some links from answering-christianity.com  ,he spoke badly of brother Osama like he fabricated emails and that he was destroyed in every debate by Christian Prince.
And he also said about Deedat:"This guy prayed to Allah to make who ever was lieing in a debate to be made dumb. Only to be struck with a stroke and remained dumb for the rest of his life. Not a good person to follow sir"


Offline submit

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Re: WHEN,HOW and by WHOM the Thaurath an Injeel got corrupted?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2016, 12:30:15 AM »
Quote
And [mention, O Muhammad], when We directed to you a few of the jinn, listening to the Qur'an. And when they attended it, they said, "Listen quietly." And when it was concluded, they went back to their people as warners.
They said, "O our people, indeed we have heard a [recited] Book revealed after Moses confirming what was before it which guides to the truth and to a straight path. (46:29-30)

The verse did not mentioned about listening to Book of Quran while comparing to Book of Taurat.

~~~~
Corruption were made hence the truth becomes unclear.

Quote
And  when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic." (61:6)

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: WHEN,HOW and by WHOM the Thaurath an Injeel got corrupted?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 03:22:19 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,

As to when, how and by whom the previous scriptures got corrupted, it is ironic that even the Bible itself claims that there is no such thing called "Bible", and that today's Bible is corrupt.  So the Jews and Christians need to stop vomiting the lie that the "Bible" is a Divine Book, when their very Bible refutes this lie.  Like I mentioned in my previous reply, the Glorious Quran came to confirm what is True in the previous Scriptures.  I have discussed this in details at:

www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/deuteronomy4_2.htm (Here the Bible itself rejects a book called "Bible")
www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_creating.htm (See the different Books that were given to different Beings, including Jesus, that enabled them to do certain and limited Miracles by Allah Almighty's Permission)

www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac6.htm#links


I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Sh Truthseaker

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Re: WHEN,HOW and by WHOM the Thaurath an Injeel got corrupted?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2016, 10:23:44 AM »
Thank You brothers,
Now please tell me about rest of it.
The verse says "Bayna Yadayhi".It means "Between his/its hands".I  want to conform whether it is an Arabic idiom or metaphor for saying "Before" or "In front of".

Offline submit

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Re: WHEN,HOW and by WHOM the Thaurath an Injeel got corrupted?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2016, 11:03:31 AM »
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=ydy

it means before it if you look at translation of all verse.
if they wish to translate between his hand. That means only the book between the hand of any prophet mentioned, is uncorrupted.

Offline khdrb

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Re: WHEN,HOW and by WHOM the Thaurath an Injeel got corrupted?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2016, 01:13:45 PM »
Muhammad Sarwar:5-48"We have revealed the Book to you (Muhammad) in all Truth. It confirms the (original) Bible and has the authority to preserve or abrogate what the Bible contains. Judge among them by what God has revealed to you and do not follow their desires instead of the Truth which has come to you. We have given a law and a way of life to each of you. Had God wanted, He could have made you into one nation, but He wanted to see who are the more pious ones among you. Compete with each other in righteousness. All of you will return to God who will tell you the truth in the matter of your differences."

(within/between his hand) (بين يديه) (bayn yadayh) Eloquent metaphor for something he got, weather it was within his hands or mind. something revealed to him spiritually and maybe he or some of his disciples have wrote it down physically, in the end it points to the original. sadly after these many times editing and burning tens of gospels specially the Aramaic ones and burn who was holding them by roman empire during many decades. until now of editing and lying,  i think the original have been lost physically or hidden somewhere out there.

the word dominant (مهيمنا) (mohaymenan) mean dominant over the bible , and have authority over it as a last ultimate revelation.