Author Topic: Muslim17Apologetics  (Read 9022 times)

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Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2017, 07:23:39 PM »
Asalama ul laykum brother truthexposer, how is the development for the rabbit meat refuttation video going?

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2017, 07:30:42 PM »
Alao another important point you should mention is that the reason Zakir Naik used bible to make rhe point was because christians adhere to bible as their law, so Naik was telling them according to their law. Woods brought a whole new discussion into what Naik was talking about, thus makes Woods look like a fool. Since even someone new to topic of debates on islam and christianity knows that christians adhere to bible as their law while muslims adhere to Quran.

Stating that prophet muhammad pbuh broke a law in Torah is foolish because since Torah does not apply to prophet muhammad pbuh. Why? Simple Quran mentions that it came to confirm and complete whag came before it thus meaning it is stating that it SUPERCEDES what came before it.

Quran(2:106) " We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?"

Offline TruthExposer777

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2017, 08:14:01 PM »
I'm not working on any vid these days & I Thought you were gonna make a refutation about it then you send it to me :)
Remember i still need proofs like the rabbits do not chew the cud :D
Asalama ul laykum brother truthexposer, how is the development for the rabbit meat refuttation video going?

Offline TruthExposer777

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2017, 08:17:19 PM »
Walaikum Asalam, brother Aqil Riaz.
I'm not working on any vid these days & I Thought you were gonna make a refutation about it then you send it to me :)
Remember i still need proofs like the rabbits do not chew the cud :D
Asalama ul laykum brother truthexposer, how is the development for the rabbit meat refuttation video going?

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2017, 10:03:10 PM »
Chewing of the cud isn't really important. The divded hoof however can be. Here is how:

Leviticus 11:6King James Version (KJV)

6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

NOTE: "DIVIDETH not the HOOF"

Is a contridiction on its own, why? For the FACT that rabbits do NOT HAVE HOOFS. So how can they not have "divideth not the hoof" when they do not even have hoof. See what i mean.

Rabbits have PAWs:


NOT

HOOF: 

Or cloven Hoof:

This same goes for Rock Badger, this it is an error in OT that indicating rabbits for not dividing the hoof, when in truth they DO NOT even have hoofs thus, they shouldn't even have been mentioned with such criteria.

Quran mentions that allah swt prohibites the jews:

Quran[6:146] "And to those who are Jews We prohibited every animal of uncloven hoof; and of the cattle and the sheep We prohibited to them their fat, except what adheres to their backs or the entrails or what is joined with bone. [By] that We repaid them for their injustice. And indeed, We are truthful."


There are certain things that Prophet Isreal prohibited to himself:


[3.93] All food was lawful to the children of Israel except that which Israel had forbidden to himself, before the Taurat was revealed. Say: Bring then the Taurat and read it, if you are truthful.




So what have we learnt.

1. Rabbits do not have hooves thus cannot divideth the hooves. Thus meaning this criteria isn't sufficient to classify them.

2. Quran tells us muslims what is forbidden to us and what is forbidden to jews. Thus meaning what is forbidden to jews is not all the same is what is forbidden to us muslims because, allah swt gave them such strict rules as punishment for being continous transgressors.

3. All was lawful to jews before Torah except what Isreal forbidden himself. Meaning "Chewing of Cud" and other animals that do not match up with Quran(6:146) are insertions. This meaning it is a cultural practice that they inhereted from prophet Isreal.

4. Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not break the commanded of Torah, why? 1. What was revealed to him that allah swt prohibited the jews did not include camels and rabbits. 2. What was revealed to prophet muhammad pbuh is that jews and muslims have similar but different dietry restrictions from allah swt. 3. Since prophet muhammad pbuh  never stated that i came to follow the Torah and Injeel, thus Torah and Injeel are irrelevant to prophet muhammad pbuh.

Why?

Simple because Quran is law for prophet muhammad pbuh and muslims and Quran supercedes what came before it:

Quran[2:106] "We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?"



Chewing of the cud isn't relevent since quran makes no mention of it being enforced by allah swt onto them.

Allah swt knows best. =)

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2017, 10:05:12 PM »
Again my images became a mess, go tp google images and take a image of rabbit feet and a full hoof and a cloven hoof. As u can see that rabbit do not fall into this criteria.

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2017, 10:24:34 PM »
Also another point .

Jesus says i came too fulfil the law not abolish it:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17-18).


But here he ABOLISHED the law:

Mark 7:18 (NIV) "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'?
Mark 7:19 (NIV) For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")



BY DECLARING all food clean, Jesus(pbuh) ABOLISHED the law of Moses, which has STRICT restrictions againsts certain food.

Well christians say, Gospel supercedes Torah, then we say Quran supercedes both Torah and Injeel and Zaboor.

So either gospel writter were ignorant of theae facts and created such GREAT contridiction, OR jesus abolished the law, thus rendering gospels CORRUPTED.




Offline TruthExposer777

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2017, 11:56:38 AM »
I know these points bro i wish you didn't told them lol but thanks anyway, now let me see google images because you messed the images up (as you said)..
Also another point .

Jesus says i came too fulfil the law not abolish it:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17-18).


But here he ABOLISHED the law:

Mark 7:18 (NIV) "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'?
Mark 7:19 (NIV) For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")



BY DECLARING all food clean, Jesus(pbuh) ABOLISHED the law of Moses, which has STRICT restrictions againsts certain food.

Well christians say, Gospel supercedes Torah, then we say Quran supercedes both Torah and Injeel and Zaboor.

So either gospel writter were ignorant of theae facts and created such GREAT contridiction, OR jesus abolished the law, thus rendering gospels CORRUPTED.

Offline TruthExposer777

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2017, 12:11:35 PM »
@Adilrias123 ?:



Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2017, 07:31:14 PM »
I hate to say this i an trying to find contridiction in the leviticus text itself, i thought the rabbit not being hoofed but pawed might work out, but i ran into this.

"27 And whatsoever goeth upon its paws, among all beasts that go on all fours, they are unclean unto you; whoso toucheth their carcass shall be unclean until the even.

So OT does clearly specifiy rabbit as being unclean for jews.

But here is the thing forget about both hoof and cud. Just use the quran and show how the dietry restrictions for muslims and jews were different. Meaning the Quranic verses that i meantioned to u before does indeed refute David Woods claims.

He claimed that zakir naik used leviticus and deuteronomy to show that pig are unclean, but in same chapter mention rabbit and camel as being unclean. Since jesus pbuh claimed he did not come break the law of prophets but to fulfil, meaning fulfil the laws of torah, since prophet muhammad pbuh in David Woods claim is that since be broke the Law the torah by eating rabbit and camel meat, he prophet muhammad pbuh cannot be a prophet.


Refuttations:

1. Zakir naik used leviticus and dueteronomy to show that people of the book shouldn't eat pigs. - anyone with a shred of honestly and understanding can tell Zakir Naik was trying to help christians understand that u cannot eat pigs. This subject has nothing to do with prophet muhammad pbuh. Since David Woods went to other verses and made a different claim, he is scapegoating and cherry picking rather then being honest about that christians shouldn't be eating pork

2. Leviticus and Dueteronomy show that it is unlawful to eat rabbit and camel meat because in OT it claims it is unclean. - here is what quran says what allah swt prohibited jews from eating:  Quran[6:146]"And to those who are Jews We prohibited every animal of uncloven hoof; and of the cattle and the sheep We prohibited to them their fat, except what adheres to their backs or the entrails or what is joined with bone. [By] that We repaid them for their injustice. And indeed, We are truthful."

So here Quran confirmed what God forbid the jews from eating which is evident in the verses of leviticus and deuteronomy, However, God also says "we(God) repaid them(jews) for their injustice(breaking God's laws and creating mischief in land). Meaning other then pork meat and all that is unlawful for muslims, the extra prohibitions are due as punishment for their transgressions.

What is unlawful and lawful for muslims to eat:

Quran(5:3)"Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah, that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject Faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful."

So here we know what is forbidden for muslims, no where is there mention of rabbits or camel. Thus, prophet muhammad pbuh did not break the law of God. Why? Simply because those prohibitions were for Jews NOT muslims.


3.Jesus pbuh kept the law, why did prophet muhammad pbuh break the law of OT? - Firstly i must remind, that OT is irrelevant to Muslims, we were told to look at it as an evidence to see that God did sent scriptures before. NO WHERE in Quran it tells us muslims to follow Torah or Injeel, but rather tells to NOT TO DO LIKE WHAT PEOPLE OF THE BOOK DID. What did the people of the book(christians and jews) do?

Quran(2:75-82) "Do you then hope that they would believe in you? While a party from among them indeed used to hear the word of Allâh, then altered it after they had understood it, and they know (this) (75).

And when they meet those who believe they say: "We believe"; and when they are alone one with another they say: "Do you talk to them of what Allâh has disclosed to you that they may argue with you by this before your Lord? Do you not then understand?" (76).

What! Do they not know that Allâh knows what they conceal and what they proclaim? (77).

And there are among them illit­erates who know not the Book but only lies, and they do but conjecture (78).

Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: "This is from Allâh ", so that they may sell it for a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn (thereby) (79).

And they say: "Fire shall not touch us but for a few days. " Say: "Have you taken a promise from Allâh, then Allâh will never fail to keep His promise, or do you speak against Allâh what you do not know?" (80). "


Here we can see we can see, forstly they ALTERED the law of God, then They LIED that they believe, they WROTE WITH THEIR HANDS SO THEY CAN EARN WORLDLY POSSESSIONS and said this is from God, they claimed that the FIRE(HELL) will not touch them. Also the fact that the the jews used to do much moshcief in land. Keep in mind this is not about all the jews but those who impacted Judaism and were not prophets.

So knows that Hod said that they the jews altered OT why would God tell us to follow it, but he said this instead:  Quran(2:106) "We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?"

Thus meaning even though verses were altered and forgotten, God still protected his verses by sending Quran which supercedes all that came before it.

Now regards to Jesus pbuh as the evidence shows from New Testament that jesus pbuh broke the laws(for us muslims it is a no brainer but i am talking in this sense show the bible perspective).

Mark 7:18 (NIV) "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'?
Mark 7:19 (NIV) For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

As we can see from above by jesus pbuh declaring all food being clean he broke the laws in OT in regards to dietry restrictions on unclean food.

But some christians claim that New testament(gospel) supercedes Old testament(Torah). We muslims say Final Testament(Quran) supercedes all that came before it.

Thus NO, prophet muhammad pbuh did not break God's law because the dietey law in regards to unclean food was made clear in Quran for prophet muhammad pbuh.

The dietry law in OT which is enforced on jews does not apply to prophet muhammad pbuh because Quran(6:146) shows clearly it is for the jews. The dietry law for muslims are in Quran(5:3). No where does it indicate that camel or rabbit being unlawful, but Quran only tells ALL UNCLOVEN HOOF ANIMALS ARE UNLAWFUL FOR JEWS because they continously transgressed.

Here is evidence of this Quran(3:93) "All food was lawful unto the Children of Israel, save that which Israel forbade himself, (in days) before the Torah was revealed. Say: Produce the Torah and read it (unto us) if ye are truthful."

Quran (4:160)"For wrongdoing on the part of the Jews, We made unlawful for them [certain] good foods which had been lawful to them, and for their averting from the way of Allah many [people]"



Here is sufficient refuttation to David Woods claims, the thing is Quran does mention all UNCOLVEN HOOF animals being unlawful for jews. Meaning even though rabbit have paws, they do not have uncloven hood. Since they do not have uncloven hood in it on its own it is unlawful for jews to eat camels and rabbits. So OT is correcr, but David Woods is wrong that he claims it applies to prophet muhammad pbuh when it truely doesn't.

The evidence i shown clearly proves that OT is irrelevant toward prophet muhammad pbuh since prophet muhammad pbuh is bound by the laws in Quran not OT.

Also mention the links i provided for health benefits of eating rabbit meat and do the same for camels. With that mention this verse:   Quran(16:114)" therefore eat of what allah has given you, lawful and good (things), and give thanks for allah's favor if him do you serve"

Yes indeed rabbit and camel meat are lawful according to quran because of their enourmoua health benefits.

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2017, 07:40:52 PM »
not only is camel meat HEALTHY but it provide low colesterial which is excellent for heart patients and is also Very rich in protien and vitamins. It is also recommended by doctors for consumption.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/livingwellinthe21stcentury.wordpress.com/2015/08/23/96/amp/


As we can see from scientific evidence rabbit and camel meat and BOTH low in colesterial and high in protiens and vitamins. This are indeed as Quran(14:116) mentions "GOOD."

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2017, 08:19:07 PM »
Corrections: "Hod" = God     "UNCLOVEN HOOF being unlawful for jews"    unlawful= lawful.

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2017, 08:49:06 PM »
Lol sorry i got myself confused there for a second the only correction is "Hod" = God

Offline TruthExposer777

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2017, 12:45:23 AM »
You should start your YouTube Channel bro :)
not only is camel meat HEALTHY but it provide low colesterial which is excellent for heart patients and is also Very rich in protien and vitamins. It is also recommended by doctors for consumption.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/livingwellinthe21stcentury.wordpress.com/2015/08/23/96/amp/


As we can see from scientific evidence rabbit and camel meat and BOTH low in colesterial and high in protiens and vitamins. This are indeed as Quran(14:116) mentions "GOOD."

Offline Affan Khan

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Re: Muslim17Apologetics
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2017, 01:26:38 AM »
Brother Osama Can you Please That Post
"Rape of female slaves refuted once and for all"
On Internet
Jazak Allah khair