MAIN BOARD (You must register to post) > POLLS & VOTING

POLL: What is your Religion?

<< < (19/19)


--- Quote from: amar on February 05, 2013, 10:29:29 AM ---@Tanveer

1- Didn't you say use Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari, well I proved Umar was kafir by using Sahih Bukhari. If you don't accept its Sahih then call it Bukhari and Muslim, again the pressure is on your sect, if you wan't to call them Sahih you have to accept whats inside.

2- The Shia videos are a shia talking about Bukhari and Muslim, giving facts about them, and the other video is a shia commentating while one of your Sunni scholars speaks, the one in brother Osama's video.

3- 'as' mean aley sallam, PBUH. You're not allowed to say that except for prophets (as), Adnan Aroor said this, he's one of your scholars and generally ask any other scholar they will say the same, simple internet check will do! I said not a Sunni, if you ain't Muslim you are kafir, I didn't say you will be kafir, I said you won't be following your school of thought.

4- you do know what 'Sahih' means yes? As long as its called Sahih Bukhari instead of Bukhari, you have to accept Umar is kafir. As Bukhari collected hadiths and called them all authentic and then put it in Sahih Bukhari, same with Muslim, aslong as you agree with them then you have to accept them, a simple thing to say is, Bukhari was wrong and hence be hated by Sunni scholars.

5- I give hadiths, most of what I put is your hadiths, don't call your own hadiths crap.


Ali (as) does not need a dua saying may Allah be pleased with him, he is free from sins as Quran says in 33:33 for the Ahlul-Bayt (as)

--- End quote ---
You continue to aggravate me by saying what i should and shouldnt believe. I can call Bukhari Saheeh and not accept some of its narrations if they are proven weak because Bukhari is considered most authentic. Not authentic fullstop. I can call Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses Saheeh because he wrote it and its not been tampered with and vehemently disagree with him (which i do). Most of what you put is my hadiths. So what? Many hadiths are fabricated. Just because they are cited in some books which were written by sunnis doesnt mean theres any duress on me to accept it as authentic unless there's proof. I have told you we (well atleast me and every other muslim in our mosque) dont consider Bukhari and Muslim infallible so it really doesnt affect us if they put in something wrong. AS and RA dont mean peace be upon him they mean may allah be pleased with him. Bring your proof stating otherwise.
I havent read your post on where you 'proved' Umar PBUH was a kafir. I wont be able to find it probably either seeing as there are 6 pages to this post. I have read somewhere that the Prophet PBUH even said that if there ever was a prophet after him it would've been Umar. I dont know if this is true or just is some propaganda made by an over zealous sunni. All the facts are against Umar PBUH being a kafir.
Umar PBUH was murdered whilst leading morning prayers. A kaafir wouldnt pray.

Be kind and generous to the Muhajirun and the Ansar. Those out of them who are good, be good to them; those who are bad overlook their lapses. Be good to the people of the conquered lands. They are the outer line of our defense; they are the target of the anger and distress of our enemies. They contribute to our revenues. They should be taxed only on their surplus wealth. Be gracious to the Bedouins as they are the backbone of the Arab nation. I instruct you to be good to the Dhimmis for they are your responsibility. Do not tax them beyond their capacity. Ensure that they pay the Jizya without undue inconvenience. Fear God, and in all that you do keep His pleasure in view. In the matter of people fear God, and in the matter of Allah do not be afraid of the people. With regard to the people, I enjoin upon you to administer justice with an even hand. See that all the legitimate requirements of the people are met. Be concerned for their welfare. Ensure the safety of their person and property. See that the frontiers of our domains are not violated. Take strong steps to guard the frontiers. In the matter of administration do not prefer the rich to the poor. Be hard against those who violate the law. Show them no mercy. Do not rest content until you have brought the miscreants to book. Treat all the people as equal. Be a pillar of strength for those who are weak and oppressed. Those who are strong but do wrong, make them pay for their wrong-doings. In the distribution of booty and other matters be above nepotism. Let no consideration of relationship or selfish interest weigh with you. The Satan is at large; it may tempt you. Rise above all temptations and perform your duties in accordance with the injunctions of Islam. Get guidance from the Holy Quran and Sunnah. Freely consult the wise men around you. Apply your own mind in difficult cases, and seek light from God. Be simple in your living and your habits. Let there be no show or ostentation about you. Lead life as a model Muslim. As you are the leader of the Muslims, justify your leadership by being the best among them all. May God bless you.

His testament.

Umar PBUH was the first to create a  department for complaints against the authorities. Would a usurper and kafir do that?
This is only a tiny example but it shows he was a man who tried at his utmost ability to live like Islam ordered.

As'salamu Alaikum everyone,

Keep the following Noble Verse in mind as you read the following detailed rebuttal:

[018:102]  Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? (this includes Ali, Fatimah, Jesus, Mary, etc...) Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.

18:102 افحسب الذين كفروا ان يتخذوا عبادي من دوني اولياء انا اعتدنا جهنم للكافرين نزلا

More Noble Verses below....

Also, let me make it clear that the "Shias" (notice the double quotes) that do not do the things that are mentioned in details below, are not Shias, and they may very well be ordinary Muslims.  Many of the general public of any faith, and even cults, are not that religious, and may not necessarily follow their cults' ways.  Such "Shias" in this case are ordinary Muslims, and not a cult, as long as they truly DO NOT follow nor believe in the polytheistic things that are detailed below.  And such people are strongly advised to distance themselves from this polytheistic and deviant cult.

--- Quote ---@Osama

My comment proves your lies about Shia, you just want to mix other sects beliefs with Shia beliefs. Shias say ya Ali (as) as the prophet (saww) said ya Ali (as) whenever he wanted something done, its sunna. We don't say ya Ali (as) when we make duas, we ask Allah (SWT) alone. If Shias were idol worshippers all Sunni shiekhs would focus on that issue as then Shias can't say nothing as they go directly against the Quran like sunnis (5:6 is an example).

"Furthermore, even if everything you say about the creations is true, then this doesn't have any theological implications today.  The Holy Quran is still the Holy Quran, and the Sunna still remains the Sunna."

You don't follow the sunna of the prophet (saww), you follow Umar's innovations, you follow the sunna of Umar.

--- End quote ---

Are the Sunnies paying attention here?  Even the Prophet of Islam used to call unto Ali when he needed help and needed to get something done.

"We don't say ya Ali (as) when we make duas, we ask Allah (SWT) alone."

False!  And the proof about this is from your top scholars from Najaf and Qum who said that IT IS A MUST UPON YOU to call unto Ali as well when you make supplication and prayer to Allah Almighty.  Calling unto Allah Almighty isn't enough. 

In fact, one of your scholars in the video mocked the Sunnies by saying "Screem all you want to Allah and you won't be heard".  Would any Sunni Sheikh or Scholar DARE to say this?  The answer is clearly no.

To the reader again, watch these videos and see the ample clips of their top scholars for yoursef: (Arabic) (English)

Furthermore, in real Islam, we seek and worship Allah Almighty Alone.  Not only that, but the best way to make supplications or requests from Allah Almighty is to ask Him, the Almighty, in humility while your face is on the ground in prostration.  This is a foreign concept in Shiism's polytheistic cult.  You have to ask Ali or anyone from the people of the Bayt to go to Allah Almighty and make the request on your behalf [2].  It's compulsory upon you!  It's not an option.  Otherwise, you're not a Shia if you don't, because your top scholars clearly command this, and it's well known that it is widely practiced among the Shias, and you yourself even strongly defended it here (see links to our dialogue below).  We don't seek Allah Almighty THROUGH any mediator.  This is one major fundamental difference between us and you.  And again, Allah Almighty said regarding the likes of your polytheistic cult:

[018:102]  Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? (this includes Ali, Fatimah, Jesus, Mary, etc...) Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.

18:102 افحسب الذين كفروا ان يتخذوا عبادي من دوني اولياء انا اعتدنا جهنم للكافرين نزلا

More Noble Verses of this kind below....

The following video demonstrates how the real Muslims pray to Allah Almighty in contrast with the Christians' mass hysteria and absurdities:

The Christians' Mass Hysteria The Muslims' Proper Prayer (Click to play film-clip)
"You don't follow the sunna of the prophet (saww), you follow Umar's innovations, you follow the sunna of Umar."

Your polytheistic cult MUST vilify some of the Companions of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and upon all of the Righteous Believers, in order for it to justify itself and its very own existence.  Otherwise, it would crumble into devestation from within.  It would self-refute and self-nullify itself.  And even with the vilification, it still self-refutes and self-nullifies itself as the following three main points, among many, clear demonstrate:

1-  Caliph Umar, the 2nd Islamic Rightly Guided Caliph, who spread Islam to Persia and liberated all of Arabia from Persia and Rome, is among the very least narrators of the Hadiths.  Not only that, but he also married Ali's daughter according to even your sources!  So there is no doubt to any ordinary and objective Muslim that he was a righteous believer, even with his short-comings and mistakes in judgement, where he was corrected by Ali and others, peace be upon all of them.  But despite all of this, even if we were to remove all of the Hadiths that Umar narrated, and throw them all out, that still wouldn't even create a dent in the Sunnah and the vast Hadiths collections that we have from the many many Companions, who worked tirelessly to preserve the Glorious Quran and the Sunnah.  To the reader, please visit the following link to see the Glorious Quran's Overwhelming Scientific Miracles:

a-  The Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Quran.  Allah Almighty Said:

"We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and INSIDE THEIR SELVES, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things?  (The Noble Quran, 41:53)"

Indeed, this Divine Promise by Allah Almighty has been proven to be 100% True by the Scientific discoveries of today, that are in great harmony with the Glorious Quran's Scientific Notions about how Allah Almighty created certain things.

Furthermore, let's never forget the Glorious Quran's #19 Miracle, which Allah Almighty called "One of the Greatest Miracles" (74:35) [1], which only our Computer Age today could verify.  This Great Miracle was made and designed for us today.

2-  Furthermore, ask any of your Shia scholars, your "Hadiths" were written at least 100-200 years after our Hadiths.  So if you reject our Sunnah, then certainly you have nothing to stand on.  Also, our Hadiths are widely used by your scholars.  They always quote from them and use them, even when teaching to other Shias.

3-  Furthermore, Allah Almighty Commanded us to never dwell in the past of the people before us, nor bear responsibility for what they did:

[002:134]  That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case!

‏2:134 تلك امة قد خلت لها ماكسبت ولكم ماكسبتم ولاتسألون عما كانوا يعملون

[002:141]  That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case:

‏2:141 تلك امة قد خلت لها ماكسبت ولكم ماكسبتم ولاتسألون عما كانوا يعملون

So forcing the Muslims to live the past of what people did to each others 1,400 years ago is clearly forbidden in the Glorious Quran.  And remember also that Allah Almighty forbade creating tumult and inner-conflicts among Muslims.  It is so forbidden, that Allah Almighty said that it is worse than slaughter:

[002:191]  And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

Anyway, so much for your tumult, continuous too-lengthy-spams (that I had to remove, and nonsense.  I am going to ban you and lock this topic to prevent further fitnah.  I just wanted the Muslims to see for themselves what these infidels are like.  And yes, they are infidels, because they are polytheists.

To the reader, visit:

Also, if you wish to see the direct dialogues that I had with Amar in this thread (since it has too many posts), then visit these links:,561.msg2858.html#msg2858,561.msg2753.html#msg2753,561.msg2792.html#msg2792,561.msg2821.html#msg2821,561.msg2831.html#msg2831 (this is also where they inflict bloody punishment on themselves and their children TODAY for betraying and disowning Hussein 1,400 years ago.),561.msg2841.html#msg2841,561.msg2844.html#msg2844 (This is where I explain why he would get banned.  He was spamming.)

Furthermore, again, watch this video to see how they cut themselves and their children for also mere creations as well, as self-inflicting punishment upon themselves and their children for betraying Hussein 1,400 years ago:

Warning!!  Extremely Graphic!
He almost cut his entire back deeply open.  See how these
polytheists are a cult of infidels who are not Muslims.

I ask you and ask everyone here by the Holy Name of Allah Almighty, if this is not idol worship and polytheism, then what is it??

I'd like to end this rebuttal with the following Noble Verses for all Shias to ponder upon (along with every other one I presented):

[018:103]  Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-

[018:104]  "Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"

And these Noble Verses:

[006:022]  That day, We will gather them all together and We will say to those who associate partners with Him, “Now, where are all those beings you used to claim as partners (of Allah)?”

[006:023]  Then, they will not have any recourse except to say, “(We swear) by Allah, our Lord, we did not associate partners (with Allah).”

[006:024]  Observe, how they will lie against themselves. And the false gods they invent now, shall all vanish.

Your obsession with the People of the Bayt is far beyond mere reverence.  It's clear idol worship.  They are idolized by you.  Do you not see that the following Noble Verses also apply to you:

[009:031]  They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

[003:064]  Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God's Will).

[018:102]  Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? (this includes Ali, Fatimah, Jesus, Mary, etc...) Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.

What more could be said?!  Certainly , not every single existing Shia is a polytheist or an idol worshiper.  But the religion of Shiism is nothing but a false polytheistic cult.  I hope this is abundantly clear to everyone.  Stop dwelling in some the stupid past, Shias!  It's not like anyone today has anything to do with it.  So why beat the day lights and cut yourselves and your children (??) to almost-death??  For who??  And for what??  Allah Almighty clearly forbade you from doing this, as I clearly demonstrated in the ample Noble Verses above.  Believe me everyone, there are many many more Noble Verses that I can provide.  But the ones above should most definitely suffice for those who are guided. 

And last and not least, did you also know that the word "Shia" is also forbidden in the Glorious Quran?  Allah Almighty DIRECTLY told us to not be Shias (divisions) in the Glorious Quran (30:31-32).  It's like you naming yourself a Kafir (infidel) Muslim, or a Mushrik (polythiestic) Muslim.  It doesn't work.  So even the name of this polytheistic and deviant cult is repulsive!  Please also visit: (see main section 3, sub-section C).

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah


[0] Message Index

[*] Previous page

Go to full version