Author Topic: Answering Islam in ( John 5:19 ) and ( John 5:30 ).  (Read 4573 times)

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Offline ahmed007

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Answering Islam in ( John 5:19 ) and ( John 5:30 ).
« on: September 09, 2015, 09:56:00 AM »

The Bible and the Nicene Creed teach that the Son is fully God. They also teach that he receives the absolute fullness of Divinity from God the Father. In other words, the Son is true God, because the Father has eternally given him the Divine essence. The Bible and the Nicene Creed also tell us that the Father and the Son are one, which means they always work together. These truths are expressed in Matthew 11:27; 28:18-19; John 1:18; 3:35; 5:17-23, 26-27; 10:29-30, 38; 14:9-11; 16:15; 17:1-2, 5, 10-11, 21-25; Philippians 2:9-11; Colossians 1:15-20; Hebrews 1:3; and 1 John 2:23. The Nicene Creed speaks of "the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, but not made, of one being with the Father."
To avoid misunderstanding it is important to explain the Christian belief about the generation of the Son and the Incarnation. God has perfect Knowledge of himself for all eternity. This knowledge may be called the Word. This Word is eternal because God is eternal and his intellect is always in perfect action. God is perfectly one, which means this Word is one with all God's attributes. In other words, this Word is infinite, all-powerful, all-knowing, truth, goodness, existence, life, love, spirit, eternal, and uncreated, which means this Word is God. This Word is perfectly one with God. The Word is called the Son because he may be described as intellectually generated. God may be called the Father because he may be described as intellectually generating the Word.
Two thousand years ago the eternal Word of God became Human and entered human history. This took place by the Son of God the Father perfectly uniting a human nature to himself. All human beings have a limited union with God. God is existence, life, love, truth, goodness, wisdom, and power. Our existence and life, and all the love, truth, goodness, wisdom and power among us, is merely a limited sharing in God. The Incarnation consists in this sharing being raised to the highest possible level, by the Word of God taking a human nature to himself. In other words, Jesus Christ is one Person with two natures, a Divine nature and a Human nature.
Jesus Christ is all-powerful, which means he is truly God. The chapter of John's Gospel quoted by the Muslim writer clearly demonstrates this. "Whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise... just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whoever he wishes... the hour is coming when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live" (John 5:19, 21, 25). The truth that the Son raises the dead, gives life, and does everything the Father does, means he must have infinite power. To possess infinite power is to be God, so the Son must be God.
The Son receives his infinite power from the Father, because he receives the fullness of Divinity from the Father. In other words, the Son is all-powerful, because the Father gives him infinite power. Also, the Son is one being with the Father, so he never works by himself, but always works with the Father. These are the reasons why Jesus says, "the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing" and "I can do nothing on my own." These words do not imply that the Son is not God, but express the truth that the Son receives the fullness of Divinity from the Father, and is perfectly one with the Father.

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: Answering Islam in ( John 5:19 ) and ( John 5:30 ).
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2015, 01:59:17 PM »
Quote
The Nicene Creed speaks of "the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, but not made, of one being with the Father."

God from God and true God from true God? Sam Shamoun should choose his words carefully because the bible says otherwise using the same word.

Christ saying to the Father in his prayer:

John 17:3
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

The verse says Father is the only true God and also distinguishes between the Father (as the true God) and Jesus (as one whom the true God sent)

Now the Christians will bring this argument-

Quote
Jesus Christ is one Person with two natures, a Divine nature and a Human nature.

So he said this as a man, not as a god. (A Christian told me this)

Well, let's agree with this ridiculous logic for the sake of the argument.

But yet it refutes trinity.

Even if Jesus said this as a man, the 'Son' and the 'Holy Spirit' part of God still existed!

So why didn't Jesus mention "God the Son' or 'God the holy spirit' and called God the Father the only true God? He could at least mention the holy spirit, as they say he was the son  ???

And there is nothing ridiculous than this statement that the son is perfectly one with the Father.

I wish that helped.

Peace...

Offline submit

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Re: Answering Islam in ( John 5:19 ) and ( John 5:30 ).
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2015, 11:09:47 AM »
Quote
The Nicene Creed speaks of "the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, but not made, of one being with the Father."
But yet it refutes trinity.

Even if Jesus said this as a man, the 'Son' and the 'Holy Spirit' part of God still existed!

So why didn't Jesus mention "God the Son' or 'God the holy spirit' and called God the Father the only true God? He could at least mention the holy spirit, as they say he was the son  ???

And there is nothing ridiculous than this statement that the son is perfectly one with the Father.


The author/s of the book John was/were not a supporter of 3 gods. Possibly he/they were among those that support subordination type of divinity or equal ditheism (only 2 gods).


Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Answering Islam in ( John 5:19 ) and ( John 5:30 ).
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2015, 07:50:17 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,

The writers of the Bible had always believed in ONE True GOD Almighty that had no partners.  No 2 gods, no 3 gods, no multiple gods.  If there were indeed 2 gods, then this would've been made clear in the story of Job (Ayyub), peace be upon him, when satan and GOD Almighty challenged each others through Job and his Faith.  The cursed satan was never mentioned to be GOD, despite the fact that the Bible speaks of him as one who wasn't even created by GOD Almighty.  No mention of satan ever being created by GOD Almighty mentioned in the Bible.  Also, king Melchizedek had no father and no mother and no beginning and no end according to the Bible.  He was never called GOD Almighty despite the fact that only GOD Almighty has no beginning and no end.  Not only that, but Jesus had to be in according to Melchizedek.  The reader can visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm

Another point that disproves the false trinity is that I have made this post from my all new 100% non-Microsoft Oracle Linux laptop server and I am loving it!!  ;D

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

 

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