Author Topic: Can someone debunk this accusation of Revelation 9-12 is in regard to Islam  (Read 2293 times)

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Offline Introvert98

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Here is the statement from this website

he 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Trumpets represented our Lord continuing to pour out His Wrath on the Roman Empire, by sending the armies of the Goths, Vandals, Huns and Heruli, to attack them.

The 5th trumpet represents our Lord raising up the Saracen (Muslim) army to attack the Roman Empire for 150 years from 612 – 672 A.D.

When you see that it was the Lord who sent the Muslims against the Roman Empire, you will gain a new perspective about the Muslims, that instead of just being a blood-thirsty people who killed others, they were in fact sent by God to execute vengeance against the pagan Roman Empire, which had killed 10 million Christians.

Revelation 9:1-2, “And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.”

Just as Lucifer fell from heaven, a falling star is a great person or leader, who executes evil plans from the bottomless pit of Satan.

The 5th Trumpet represents the rise of the Islamic Empire, which God used to execute judgment against 1/3rd of the Roman Empire.

Mohammed was a great leader (star) who was used by God to darken the Roman Empire.

At his birth, Mohammed’s grandfather possessed the authority of the house of Koreish, the governors of Mecca. Then his father died and his grandfather died, causing the governorship of Mecca to be passed onto someone else.

Mohammed opened the bottomless pit of Satan’s lies, when he stayed in the cave of Hera for three years, and received a vision from an angel in white (no doubt Satan, as 2 Cor. 11:14 says, “And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.”)

Pagan superstition holds that caves serve “as the seats of oracles and sources of inspiration.”

The Koran says that Mohammed was given the power of heaven and the fire below, “I have been given the keys of all the treasures of the earth.”

The smoke that rose up is the false doctrine of the Koran, which says that fighting non-believers is the duty of every Muslim for Allah. And the only way to be certain to go to heaven, is to die fighting for the cause of Allah.

The Koran denies the deity of Jesus and say that he was just a prophet. They deny that he died on the cross and shed his blood for redemption. They say that he fainted or went unconscious on the cross and was brought around at a later date. They deny the inerrancy of scripture.

The Koran promises a paradise that will satisfy every sensual pleasure.

The new religion of Islam darkened the religion of the Sun, the Western part of the remaining Roman Empire.

Revelation 9:3-4, “And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.”

The Ishmaelites were defined in the Bible as locust. In Genesis 21:17, God promised Hagar that He would make the descendents of Ishmael into a great nation.

The Strong’s word for “nation” in that verse is “gowy” which figuratively means a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts.

Judges 7:12 defines that locust represent the Arabians. “Now the Midianites and Amalekites, all the people of the East, were lying in the valley as numerous as locusts; and their camels were without number, as the sand by the seashore in multitude.”

The Hebrew word for locust is ‘arbeh‘, and the Hebrew word for Arab is “arbe“, which is pronounced the same.

The Arabs have an Islamic tradition, which says “Locusts fell onto Mohammed’s hand, and on the wings of the locusts it was written: “We are the army of the Great God“

Moslem writers say, “When the locust swarms darken vast countries, they bear on their wings these Arabic words: ‘We are God’s host, each of us has ninety-nine eggs, and if we had a hundred, we should lay waste the world with all that is in it.‘”

When real locust invade a land, all of the vegetation is devoured, so obviously these locust aren’t literal, but symbolic.

Unlike the Goths, who burned up everything they conquered, Abubeker (the first Caliph after Mohammed) declared that they should not harm the trees or the fields, so that they could take them over and make them prosperous.

They attacked only the idolaters and saint worshipers of the Pagan Roman Empire, who were not sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Revelation 9:5, “And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.”

Literal locusts come out for 5 months, from April to September.

Muslims attacked for five months, which using the year-for-a-day principle, is 150 years. ( 5 months x 30 days = 150 years)

In 632 A.D., Mohammed died and the Arabs moved out of Arabia to conquer other lands.

This was the time of the supremacy of Islamic power, and for 150 years they conquered Arabia, Palestine, Syria, Egypt, Spain and North Africa.

During the 10 years between 634 – 644, they captured 36 cities, destroyed 4000 churches and built 1400 mosques.

But their attempts to overtake the Eastern Roman Empire of Constantinople failed. They tried to conquer them, but ultimately just tormented them.

In 762, caliph Almansor built Bagdad as the future seat of his empire and called it the city of peace. They no longer made such rapid conquests, but only engaged in ordinary wars like other nations.

In 782 they signed the treaty of Constantinople was signed, which brought peace.

So the 5 months, which is 150 prophetic years, was fulfilled from 632 – 782 A.D.

Revelation 9:6, “And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.”

These Saracen Arabs were not allowed to just annihilate people. They gave them a choice; convert to become a Muslim; or be killed if they decided to challenge them; or they could agree to be second class citizens, and they had to pay tax to the Muslims.

If a Muslim came to their door, they had to bring them in and feed them.

Some of these people were not real Christians, so they didn’t have the spirit of God that caused them to accept martyrdom for their faith.

They chose to become second class citizens who were subservient to the Muslims. They sought death but couldn’t find it, because they had not the guts or nerve to fight either.

Revelation 9:7-8, “And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions”

“The horses prepared unto battle” simply represents that they used horses in battle.

“The crowns of gold” represent the gold and yellow saffron colored turbans that they wore.

“Their faces were as the faces of men“ means that they had beards, which is a sign of their masculinity. Romans and other races shaved their faces, so this would have stood out to John.

“They had hair as the hair of women“ The Muslims had long hair in those days. If they were preparing for battle, they would tie it up under the turbans.

“And their teeth were as the teeth of lions“means that they were savage and ferocious.

The teeth of the Arabs were as the teeth of a lion. “Break their teeth in their mouth, O God! Break out the fangs of the young lions, O LORD!” Psalm 58:6

Revelation 9:9, “And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle”

“And they had breastplates of iron“ means the Arab army wore chain-mail as they went into battle.

The sounds of their wings represents the rapid conquests of the Saracens, as they moved over countries as swiftly as locust, their many horses causing a great sound.

Revelation 9:10, “And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.”

“They had stings in their tail” indicates their unique ability to fight rearwards, shooting arrows backwards, while riding on horseback.

Revelation 9:11, “And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”

Proverbs 30:27 tells us that natural locust have no king;

“The locusts have no king, Yet they all advance in ranks.“

Their king was Mohammed.

Abaddon and Apollyon are words that essentially mean destroyer or one who exterminates, which aptly described the Arabs.

Revelation 9:12, “One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.”

This is the start of the 2nd Woe.

From John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them,… Which natural locusts have not, Proverbs 30:27.

By whom is meant the false prophet Mahomet, who was at the head of the Saracens, and led them on to commit the outrages they did; and is believed in by the Turks to this day, as the great prophet of God, and by them preferred to all prophets, not only to Moses, but to Jesus Christ; he is the king of the eastern locusts, as the pope of Rome is the king of the western ones; for the Romish antichrist reigns, or at least has reigned, over the kings of the earth, Revelation 17:17;

which is the angel of the bottomless pit; to whom the key of it was given, Revelation 9:1;

whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon; both which signify a “destroyer”; and are very applicable both to Mahomet, who by his imposture has been the cause of the destruction of multitudes of souls, as well as by his wars, and those of the Saracens and Turks, of the lives of millions, and of the ruin of many kingdoms, countries, cities, and towns.

Abulpharagius, an Arabic writer, relates, that in the times of the Chalif Al-walid, there was one Hejajus, who had caused to be slain, of the chief and illustrious men, an hundred and twenty thousand, besides others of the common people, and that fell in war; moreover, that there died in his prison fifty thousand men, and thirty thousand women: and the same writer reports, that the famous Abu Moslem put to death six hundred thousand men, who were known, besides those that were unknown, and whom he slew in wars and battles.

Do you now see how of the 5th trumpet of Revelation 9 has been fulfilled, and it’s not an end-times period where demons torment people nonstop for 5 months?

Do you now see that the rise of Islam and the Muslim army was prophesied in the 5th Trumpet of Revelation, and they were used by God to execute justice

Offline AhmadFarooq

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I think it is a waste of time arguing against such fallacious reasoning using at best circumstantial evidence. Two points, counter arguments for which I had on hand:

  • "They deny the inerrancy of scripture."

Muslims aren't the only ones, from what I know serious Bible scholars do too.

  • "During the 10 years between 634 – 644, they captured 36 cities, destroyed 4000 churches and built 1400 mosques."

In his book ‘A New Introduction to Islam’ (under the subtitle ‘The Invisible Conquests’), Dr. Daniel W. Brown writes:
“Archaeological data tell a somewhat different tale. If we look for evidence of the burning, looting, or destruction described by Bishop Sophronius in 635, we find none. No systematic sacking of cities took place, and no destruction of agricultural land occurred. The conquests brought little immediate change to religious and communal life. There were no mass or forced conversions. Christian, Jewish, or Zoroastrian communities in Syria and Iraq may have felt threatened, but they continued to thrive. New synagogues, churches, and monasteries were still being built into the eight century, and churches or synagogues were not converted to mosques on any noticeable scale. The first urban mosques were not built until after 690, and the urban landscape of the Near East remained largely unaffected by the conquests (Pentz 1992). There was certainly change, but in the same directions and at the same pace as before the conquests (Morony 1984: 507-26). Two key measures offer telling evidence that the conquests brought little immediate disruption to the patterns of religious and social life in Syria and Iraq: production of wine (forbidden in Islamic Law) continued unchanged, and pigs (considered unclean by Muslims) continued to be raised and slaughtered in increasing numbers (Pentz 1992).

“Neither do we find evidence of dramatic change in the law or political institutions of conquered territories in the years immediately following the conquests. What did change was the ruling class. The new rulers spoke Arabic, represented a different ethnicity, and kept aloof from their conquered subjects. But for all the differences change came slowly even at the highest levels of political affairs. The new rulers continued to use Greek and Persian in administrative documents. They continued to mint Byzantine-style coins complete with the image of the emperor holding a cross, and Sassanian-style coins bearing Zoroastrian symbols and Sassanian dates (Morony 1985: 38-51). They were dependent on the old Persian and Greek bureaucrats and institutions. Major reform of the language of administration or of coinage did not take place until 695 — sixty years into Arab rule. Earlier attempts at reform reportedly failed in the face of stiff popular resistance. The Arab rulers also continued the same patterns of taxation. The conquests replaced the top rung of the Byzantine and Sassanian ruling class with Arabs, but they did not immediately or violently alter the administrative, religious, economic, or cultural landscape of the Near East.”

Offline submit

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Please bear in mind Hellenistic Book of Revelation was written decades after Paul claim to met Jesus in a desert and from that interaction he confirmed that Jesus was resurrected,  so he began writing letters/books spreading stories about resurrection.

And decades later those who accepted stories of resurrected Jesus spread by Paul began to write books with divinity version of Jesus in each other Greek books.

Hence why in the Greek book of Revelation, the divine version of Jesus returned as War God that shout his sword from his mouth and punish non believers in hell set on earth. Not satisfied of burning them in hell, he will boast his triumph in another battle by releasing hell beings and torment them with fire from the sky.

This is how the Greek books describe their War God.


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