Author Topic: Can u christians just answer only one question  (Read 5296 times)

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Offline Mohammed.Rashid

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Can u christians just answer only one question
« on: January 29, 2014, 04:04:12 AM »
I earlier I made 60 questions that invalidates the religion of christianity but i dint got a single answer from anyone to those questions. Leave 60 here is only 1 question that is more than enough to prove that christianity is false religion. Its just a business to garner quick bucks and nothing more than that.

Jesus was both man Acts 2:22 -
and son of man Mark 2:10 -
Jesus repented thru baptism by john the baptism in mt 3:11-17 - BUT

Bible says in Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man, that he should repent.

Humble01

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Re: Can u christians just answer only one question
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2014, 08:31:35 AM »
Christ was in a temporal state, not an absolute state. We see references of Christ in absolutes, but as a man incarnate, as is illustrated by His claim of ascension and departure from this world, replaced by the Holy Spirit, which also is God, He was not in His absolute state/roll/ect.
He lived fully as a man, He did not call on His authority when tempted by satan in the desert, quotes like "why do you call me good? No one is good but God", illustrate this further. He speaks truth, He embodies/typifies righteousness, qualities like humility, praising/crediting God, ect, these are all depictions, images, pictures of a righteous man, which had not existed and has not since, a 3d image of God as a man incarnate, is not God absolutely, all encompassing, infinite, ect.
Also;
"John 10:34
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'?"
referencing Psalm 82:6 ""I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'"
So there is multiple points to address here.
1) We "are gods", as sons of the Most High, the one true absolute, infinite, eternal, all encompassing God.
2) If Muslims accept Psalms then there is no argument to be had.
3) If the general concept of one being many is confusing, it is addressed from various angles;
Example: Everything was created through God, not just by God, nothing which was created was created without Him. He is in all things, and all things in Him.
That alone tells us God composes our very nature and reality, everything, all of creation, "is God". God is one, absolutely, as a collective unit, but He is many, as everything which He created is Him, created through Him, existing in Him, and Him in it.
You can take it a step further and go scientifically. God is the light, light is primordial in all creation, it is pure energy, cannot be created nor destroyed (naturally). All matter, everything physical and perceivable, is energy, as proven by the famous Einstein equation E=mc2.
God is the light, it is a part of His complete being, but also exists in various subjective/temporal states, even as you and I. He is infinitely above and below, that is to say in the hierarchy of the universe, from the invisible that composes the visible, to the collective unit of "everything" or "all of creation", all is God.
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I'm sure there are various other angles to address this from, but I just felt the need to comment so I registered to post this.
Also I want to add, some more speculative concepts just to help you imagine better one existing as many.
We know scientifically of various things which can exist in various temporal states, i.e. gas, liquid, solid. We also know how single cells can compose a collective organism. We have various examples, self-evident in nature and humanity to express this concept.
There is also various scientific means of analyzing this. Example; all things are measured relative to other things, expressed subjectively, based on the perception of the observer. If there is nothing to relate an object to it is infinite, and more philosophically speaking, without something to contrast, relate, measure against, without being to speculative, simply what is the point?
I.E. good and bad. Without bad, good isn't really good, its standard/average/expected/normal/ect. Only measured in contrast to bad/evil does good/righteous truly become defined and known.
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On a spiritual/philosophical approach, we can imagine these concepts more absolutely. The possibility of the necessity for evil in order to have a measure of Righteousness, and so on. And I believe this relates to the topic of God's various states.
God being everything, if He never created anything through Himself, nothing else would exist to know God, nothing could contrast/measure, some would argue this is detrimental to its very existence.
Again I don't want to speculate to much, or make non-biblical claims for God, or absolute statements which I'm likely too ignorant to say with any real authority, but I simply mean to brainstorm some concepts which might help you better visualize.
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Under this logic, one could argue, that in order for God to exist, something else must have existed, which creates a sort of paradox, unless, the thing(s) in question are God, they're encompassed by God, again, He is everything, this would make sense of the trinity, and in fact point to the necessity for it, why Christ and the Holy Spirit were with God in the beginning, ect.
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Anyways, hope this helps, looking forward to your reply

Humble01

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Re: Can u christians just answer only one question
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2014, 09:14:00 AM »
Also I believe the Bible touches on us being compared as body parts of God. Which further illustrates the point that we are Him, but we're not absolute, we're not the collective single organism, but rather many individual organisms which compose Him on a grand scale, or rather are encompassed by Him, existing with in Him.
And this is also touched on by stating Christ is "The Word of God" which was with God "In the beginning", and "is God".
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Our ignorance and/or inability to imagine this entirely accurately is irrelevant, in premise, it isn't falsifiable or verifiable by any scientific means, and on logic alone it stands on its own. You may personally have a problem grasping or believing the concept(s), and/or have a bias predisposition to assert contrary is true therefor this must be false, but unless it can be proven on some level, whether scientific, logical, or purely based on scripture, your argument boils down to your subjective opinion, and/or knowledge/ignorance.
It is essentially irrelevant, as likely is any attempt to refute it. If you seek contradictions in the Bible you will find them, but not necessarily because they exist, but rather because you are eager to arrive at your bias predisposition. You're not objectively analyzing the problem or concluding objectively, you're bias and you arrive where you begin, believing the Quran is true and the Bible is not and/or is corrupted by men. Which makes your view even less reliable as an objective observer.
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I have a question for you as well. More of a comment really. The Quran was composed around 600 years after the Bible, it demonstrates clear influences from the Bible, both OT and NT, and while claiming authority and connection from The Bible, it also directly contradicts biblical teachings. Other than your bias predisposition as a Muslim, what reason do you have to believe The Bible is corrupt/fake and the Quran is not?
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Also, I just want to add that my interpretation of the Bible is more open than many. I do not preach "believe in Christ or go to hell", because I believe that is judgmental, which contradicts Christianity, also various verses tell us that God is Truth/Righteousness/Love/ect, following these things is God, they are God, and I believe if I was left with the decision to follow the name of Jesus only vs His teachings only, I would follow His teachings.
Many would likely criticize me for this, but I absolutely believe in Christ being the Son of God who died for our sins and so on, but I believe that modern interpretation has shifted it into a condemning fashion when the entire premise of the NT in contrast to the OT "finished work", is mercy/grace, and positivity, not condemnation through law.
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Which brings up another point, how to you reconcile the teachings of Christ you accept as "the prophet Isa", while your book contains "Law". If you accept Him as high authority even just as "an important prophet of God", how do you justify taking away from His words, and adding to them? I feel that there is some basic contradictions in the general concept.
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The Jews rejected Him as Messiah because they believed He would come and rule the world incarnate, with a physical kingdom, under law, ect. His entire philosophy was that the law condemns, and God forgives through His mercy/grace, not by our works, or ability to uphold "man's law", which we all are inherently designed to fail under. Any man who says He is without sin sins already, and so on. How does the Quran address these issues?
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I believe that many people of various faiths will be saved. I am even inclined to believe that all will be saved, as it says, it is His will that all come to repentance, and He is not slack concerning His promises. However, I also understand the reality of the corrupt nature of man, and various pieces which may require purification. I'm unsure as to whether any will actually come to perish or be cast out absolutely.
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It speaks about separating the sheep from goat, and believers whom fed Him when they knew not, and non believers (true believers) who refused Him when they knew not, and how He will reply "depart from me, I never knew you". This tells us many self proclaimed believers aren't actually true believers, God is the only one who contains absolute knowledge to judge accordingly.
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I lean toward an interpretation that true believers will be embraced and be first in heaven, receive spiritual rewards, being closer to God, ect, where as the non believers will eventually be led to repentance and/or purification through baptism of fire, the third baptism, which could be both literal/physical and spiritual. And that shame and torment will haunt them in their repentance, grasping the distance they have put between them and God, measured in contrast to those who secured spots closer to God, but ultimately, all corrupt parts will be removed and/or purified, and all uncorrupt parts will be saved.
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That is my personal opinion/interpretation of the text. Also, that if they're not against us, they're for us, meaning if you follow Righteousness/Truth/Love truly and earnestly, focusing on it, seeking it diligently, then you're following/believing in the 1 true God, and we're brothers, not enemies. It is also possible that just as the covenants God had exclusive with specific groups can be for a time, a people, or period, and many "churches" exist of various "faiths" which believe and call on Him, that He may have His truth revealed in many religions, and corruption from men may also be in many religions and may also fit ultimately in His plan, as the true believer will discern Truth through prayer, and focusing on God truly, where as the non believer will say in His heart "God is not real", and look only for contradiction, and confirmation that it is false/fake.
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Always remember, just like nonbelievers can scoff at the concept of a "God in the sky", and make hasty generalizations and straw man fallacies to attack it, and presuppose that is is "silly" in premise, anyone can ignorantly deny/assert based on their bias predisposition. Just as the Bible tells us, we must prove everything, seek Truth diligently, not become egotistical as to assert/deny our truth is the absolute truth, which is intellectually dishonest to say the least.
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I don't believe I have all the right answers, or am above mistakes, but I believe I give an objective overview of things in which I don't assert my position is more or less valid, or attack other positions. We must remain objective, mature, and honest in our approach.

Offline Mohammed.Rashid

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Re: Can u christians just answer only one question
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2014, 03:52:47 PM »
sorry, can u summarise it

It may sound ridiculous or kiddish to u but -

If jesus is god - he must have known(as a god of/for christians) that all such statement(in OT & NT - only if he is omniscient) might/will confuse his worshippers then y didnt he elaborate it. Leave that aside for claiming himself God by saying clearly " I am God worship me" or like I have come to die for your sins so just believe that I will die for ur sins - and u will be saved. This again proves that christian god is not omniscient or christians must believe that their God is not ALL-KNOWING.
 
Y it needs so much commentary or explanation

Thanks

 

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