Author Topic: Gender inequality  (Read 23452 times)

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Offline The Canadian Atheist

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2013, 12:31:06 AM »
Interesting... Never heard about the Quran supporting evolution before. This might be one of the two 'missing pieces' in my quest for the truth (the other being the existence of God).

Thanks for the guidance, mclinkin94.


Offline Ishfaq

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2013, 04:21:26 AM »
"Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground
      stable ground here does not mean a fixed earth but it refers to two things;
1.     here the context demands that stable ground means a place of respite, without earthquakes.
2.      it also hints at the point that when the earth was formed the crust became unstable. so allah swt produced the mountains to prevent the eath from shaking while rtating on its own axis. if a tennis ball is taken , it has a cloth coves and the rubber shell. the too are attached with an adhesive. liken the rubber core to the mantle and the cloth to the crust. if the adhesive is not predent, and if the ball spins , the cloth covering will slip arond the mantle. surely, it will not hold on to its place. similarly, had the mountains not been there, which anchor the crust to the mantle, during the rotation of eartgh the crust may have slipped over the mantle, thus not remaining stable. this is what is hinted in the above verse.
3.     in anoither verse of the quran, allah says, 'and he has made the mountains as pegs, ...lest the earth should shake with it[ the earth]. this verse explains the above verse.
4.     one of the criterion of understanding the quran is to understand a verse in context of what the other versesw of the quran say about it.

Offline Black Muslim

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2013, 07:07:44 AM »
As I thought , similar birds are attracted to each other . When someone is so desperate to prove that he and monkeys are relatives , there's nothing convincing him of otherwise .

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2013, 08:00:49 AM »
The word Daraba could mean to beat, but it could also mean to leave. The scholars that use this view use Hadiths such as this one in ibn Dawud "Do not beat them", to support there claim. this is one view.
Even the scholars who do say that beat is OK have extreme limitation about it such as it cannot be harmful, the face cannot be hit, you must not leave a mark, do not break the bones or anything else, it cannot be on the face, etc.
Most Scholars have one view or the other. Either that beating is forbidden or that it has extreme limitations about it.
Not taking a side
just stating the facts
peace

Offline The Canadian Atheist

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2013, 11:52:27 AM »
The theory evolution directly contradicts the Quran for two reasons:

1) 38:71 clearly says "Indeed, I am going to create a human being from clay."
2) Evolution via the law of natural selection (the weak lose the struggle) is not the work of a loving creator
3) Why would God work using elimination of the unfit? Why not just make humans on the spot?

Offline Black Muslim

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2013, 12:32:05 PM »
Quote
3) Why would God work using elimination of the unfit? Why not just make humans on the spot?
The only piece of truth you spoke . And that's what it is in Islam .

Quote
2) Evolution via the law of natural selection (the weak lose the struggle) is not the work of a loving creator
I'll be straight , just because you hate Christianity and see myths in it it doesn't mean you can spam nonsense about Islam . There's nothing in Islam called "Unconditional love" . Allah loves those who do good deeds and hates those who do the opposite . That's called common sense .
Question : Let's be generous with you and say that God is not loving , how in world does it mean he doesn't exist ? What kind of logic is "the mayor is unjust , so he doesn't exist" .

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2013, 05:24:44 PM »
I take my word back on Quran 13:2
It could be talking about the platonic year.

As for 27:61, that's clearer
"Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground and placed within it rivers and made for it firmly set mountains and placed between the two seas a barrier? Is there a deity with Allah ? [No], but most of them do not know."

Some translations say "fixed abode" meaning it does not move

No offence but what utter Rubbish.

The Ayat you quoted:

Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground [Saheeh International]

Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode [Muhsin Khan]

Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode [Pickthall]

Or, Who has made the earth firm to live in [Yusuf Ali]

Or, Who made the earth a restingplace [Shakir]

Is not He (Most Charitable) Who made the earth a residence [Dr Ghali]

This verse is merely saying that the earth is stable and safe to live in.

Is the earth generally stable and safe? Yes. Some planets are gaseous so they are not a fixed/stable/safe abode. Whereas the earth is not gaseous meaning that it is solid and firm. Also everytime we walk on the earth, the earth doesnt shake or fall apart. It is a stable ground.

Let us analyse the Pickthall and the Hilali/Khan translation:

Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode...[Pickthall]

Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode...[Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan]

Let us define the two key words, fixed and abode:

Acordeing to Colins Gem English Dictionary:

Fix means:

Verb- Make or become firm,stable or secure.

Abode means:

Noun: Home, Dwelling

Therefore the Quran is only stating that the earth is a firm,stable or secure home or dwelling. Which the earth is. This is nothing to do with the earth not moving.

The meaning of this verse becomes clear when you look at multiple translations of the Quran (shown above). The verse isnt refering to the orbit of the earth but to the earth geographically. The misunderstanding is due to how Pickthall has translated the verse. Saheeh International and Yusuf Ali give a more accurate translation of the verse:

Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground... [Saheeh International]

Or, who has made the earth firm to live in... [Yusuf Ali]

If we analyse the translations we get the following meanings:

Fixed abode [Pickthall - Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan]

Stable ground [Saheeh International]

Firm to live in [Yusuf Ali]

Stable place to live in [Maulana Wahiduddin Khan]

place of resort [Mawdudi]

These are all correct. Thus it shows this verse isnt speaking aboud the rotation of the earth but the earth geographically.

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2013, 05:40:49 PM »
The word Daraba could mean to beat, but it could also mean to leave. The scholars that use this view use Hadiths such as this one in ibn Dawud "Do not beat them", to support there claim. this is one view.
Even the scholars who do say that beat is OK have extreme limitation about it such as it cannot be harmful, the face cannot be hit, you must not leave a mark, do not break the bones or anything else, it cannot be on the face, etc.
Most Scholars have one view or the other. Either that beating is forbidden or that it has extreme limitations about it.
Not taking a side
just stating the facts
peace

The Hadith he is referring to:



Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri:

I went to the Messenger of Allah () and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied:
Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.

[Sunan Abi Dawud 2144 Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)]

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2013, 08:01:24 PM »
The theory evolution directly contradicts the Quran for two reasons:

1) 38:71 clearly says "Indeed, I am going to create a human being from clay."
2) Evolution via the law of natural selection (the weak lose the struggle) is not the work of a loving creator
3) Why would God work using elimination of the unfit? Why not just make humans on the spot?

Hey bro, thanks for questioning Islam. The best thing for anyone to do is to Question everything and reflect upon reality.

1.) Saying that mankind is made of clay actually proves the Quranic argument for evolution. It is saying that we were created from a lifeless substance and then we were fashioned into shape!

Anyway, you can attack this Clay thing in 3 ways:

1.) It is metaphorical and it means that we are made of a substance derived from Earth. (Scientifically true)

2.) It means that we are made of the same basic components clay has. (Scientifically true)

3.) It literally means that we were made from clay. That the first cell existed in Clay. We currently believe that the deep ocean is rather dillute to allow the first cell to form with its necessary components of formation, and we believe it most likely formed in some kind of muddy spring which is not as dillute and shallow enough to allows the first cell to form. And I don't know if you read about it, but there is the possibility that life bearing compounds and maybe even the first cell formed on mars. And they are sure that life may have existed on mars because of the presence of clay.

Here are some sources:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/12/mars-clay-boron-meteorite-key-element-life_n_3428600.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/13/science/space/mars-could-have-supported-life-nasa-says.html?_r=0

http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/press-releases/MartianClay/

I also got a really good verse that hints at everything.

Quran 32:7 Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay.

You notice that in this verse it is talking about how creation went through a process of perfection. And then Allah BEGAN the creation of man from clay (wet earth)

Quran 32:8 Then He made his posterity out of the extract of a liquid disdained.

After Allah began the creation of a human being out of clay, he has created sexual reproduction.

Quran 32:9 Then He proportioned him and breathed into him from His [created] soul and made for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful.

After sexual reproduction, we were proportioned and given a higher consciousness!

Notice the similarity with the basic idea of evolution.


2.) Allah is not an all-loving creator :P, Love is conditional and must be earned through faith and obedience. You notice in the Quran Allah does not love everybody or everything. He loves those who deserve it.  Also he may have sufficiently good reasons to support using evolution as a method of creation.

3.) Either way, the Quran says that creation had a process. You will never find a Quranic verse in support of instant creation. All Quranic verses dealing with creation show a process thereof But:

 This question implies time. Does Allah experience time? No, absolutely not. Allah exists outside of time, to him 13.7 billion years could be instant or a split second. In fact, the Quran tells us that the universe has been in existence for 6 days at Allah's throne. That means the throne experienced 6 days while we experienced 13.7 billion years. The Quran also describes the throne as being VERY massive, so according to our modern theories, more massive objects experience time slower. So why did Allah make humanity in diverse stages as he said in the Quran? Why 13.7 billion years old? Well, we must say that he has wisdom in his creation. We also know that the universe has to expand at a ''just-right'' rate and the right amount of time needed to pass to allow stars to form the necessary compounds for life and allow higher level organisms to form through a process. Humanity is not the only creation of Allah, the universe was made for others as well.

Side note: The Quran says the universe has been in existence for 6 days at God's throne (Quran 10:3). And the Earth existed for 2 periods ( Quran 41:9). Notice that Allah says that he created in the universe and the Earth and everything in between in 6 days (Quran 50:38)--this means that everything has been in existence for 6 days (so in the future it would be 7 days at the throne).

The Quran here is stating that the age of the Earth relative to the universe should be around 2/6th (1/3rd). What has science discovered:

The Earth is 4.54 billion years old
The universe is 13.7 billion years old.

4.54/13.7 is 1/3rd. Here you have an accurate representation of the relative ages of the universe in the Quran. If the Quran used a different ratio, it would contradict science, but it supported science!

Islam has 2 holy books: The Quran and proven science.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 09:03:03 PM by mclinkin94 »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2013, 10:02:40 PM »
I'll be straight , just because you hate Christianity and see myths in it it doesn't mean you can spam nonsense about Islam . There's nothing in Islam called "Unconditional love" . Allah loves those who do good deeds and hates those who do the opposite . That's called common sense .
Question : Let's be generous with you and say that God is not loving , how in world does it mean he doesn't exist ? What kind of logic is "the mayor is unjust , so he doesn't exist" .

As'salamu Alaikum my beloved Brother "Black Muslim" and to every Brother and Sisters on this board,

Just wanted to bring to your attention dear brother that never once did Allah Almighty use the word "hate" in the Glorious Quran.  It's always either Allah Almighty Loves or doesn't Love or doesn't Like something or those who do evil.  The difference between them is that there is Admonishment and Advise and Wisdom from Allah Almighty towards those who do evil.  This is different from just hating.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2013, 10:08:53 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,

As many of you probably know, I've written a detailed section about this at: www.answering-christianity.com/beating.htm.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline The Canadian Atheist

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Re: Beat your wife up
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2013, 02:56:57 AM »
I'll be straight , just because you hate Christianity and see myths in it it doesn't mean you can spam nonsense about Islam . There's nothing in Islam called "Unconditional love" . Allah loves those who do good deeds and hates those who do the opposite . That's called common sense .
Question : Let's be generous with you and say that God is not loving , how in world does it mean he doesn't exist ? What kind of logic is "the mayor is unjust , so he doesn't exist" .

As'salamu Alaikum my beloved Brother "Black Muslim" and to every Brother and Sisters on this board,

Just wanted to bring to your attention dear brother that never once did Allah Almighty use the word "hate" in the Glorious Quran.  It's always either Allah Almighty Loves or doesn't Love or doesn't Like something or those who do evil.  The difference between them is that there is Admonishment and Advise and Wisdom from Allah Almighty towards those who do evil.  This is different from just hating.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Thanks!

Btw, I love your site! I use it all the time to debate Christians.

 

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