Author Topic: Proof of God  (Read 7877 times)

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Offline Abdullah Tahmeed

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Proof of God
« on: March 28, 2015, 08:28:44 AM »
Assalamu Alaikum, I have been reading AC for a long time and i have been actively taking part in some religion base debates, Here is a very challenging problem that occurs when we talk with ATHEISTS. the problem is there any proof of God that is as clear as a scientific or mathematical proof?

And btw, christianity isn't a threat, we share same basic beliefs in most cases, Atheism is.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 09:09:29 AM »
Assalamu Alaikum, I have been reading AC for a long time and i have been actively taking part in some religion base debates, Here is a very challenging problem that occurs when we talk with ATHEISTS. the problem is there any proof of God that is as clear as a scientific or mathematical proof?

And btw, christianity isn't a threat, we share same basic beliefs in most cases, Atheism is.

Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother Tahmeed,

Welcome to the board, akhi.  May Allah Almighty make it a tool that will further strengthen your Faith in Islam and knowledge.  Ameen.

As to the mathematical formula, here is how you answer the atheists.  Tell them the following:

1-  Since you think you're smarter than everyone else, when in reality your "intelligence" is what will doom you to Hell in the End, here is a formula to answer your question above:

Is there any scientific or mathematical proof for your existence your age - 2 years ago?  So if the buffoon is 20 years old, ask him is there any scientific or mathematical proof that he existed 22 years ago?  Yet, he is here on earth existing and vomiting!  So what happened???  How did he come about?

Take care,
Osama Abdallah


Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2015, 10:27:56 AM »
Excellent Reply brother Osama..... a direct blow to the foolish atheists....

Offline Abdullah Tahmeed

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2015, 01:23:20 AM »
Indeed a clever answer. :)

Salam,

Tahmeed

Offline Abdullah Tahmeed

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2015, 01:34:00 AM »
"Is there any scientific or mathematical proof for your existence your age - 2 years ago?  So if the buffoon is 20 years old, ask him is there any scientific or mathematical proof that he existed 22 years ago?  Yet, he is here on earth existing and vomiting!  So what happened???  How did he come about?"

Well he would say from a single cell, he is just an animal, a living being, he doesn't have to be created out of nowhere, his mother and father's mixed semen created his first cell and it used natural substances to grow and mitosis happened...

Atheists doesn't believe that they have a soul or something such.

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2015, 01:33:32 PM »
Salam dear brother Tahmeed (!!!!),

I think there is scientific proof that God exists. I hope you know about the 4th dimension ie Time. The atheists believe that. Ask an atheist who knows something about science, "What would happen if there was no time or 4D in our universe?" He will tell you that without time, the world would be at a stand still. Nothing would change, nothing would move.

At first people simply called the alternation of day and night 'time'. For example, we say the time is 4:00 pm. It means it has been 4 hours since the sun was right top of our head. But that's not the 4D. Modern science says time is not the alternation, but the dimension that alternates day and night and makes everything move. So all athiests believe that the universe is impossible without time. Now, hadith says,

 Narrated by Abu Huraira, Rasulullah (S) said, Allah, the Glorious and Most exalted says, "Children of Adam displeases Me by abusing Time. But I AM Time, I alternate day and night." (Muslim, Hadith 5712).

I read this hadith in Bukhari too, but forgot where :P

Think about it. Why does Allah claim that he created our body when we are mixed semen and grew because of Mitosis? Answer is simple. If there was no time, the fetus wouldn't grow up. It would be as it is forever. Every stage of its growth is because of Time. And Allah says He is Time! That's how He creats everything. But as far as I know, Islam is the only religion which says that God is Time. So you cant proof this by the bible or Vedas (as far as I kbow).

So if we do a little research on how to proof that there is a 4th dimension, I think we will be able to proof the existence of God InshAllah.

But there is a little problem if we say God is the 4th Dimension. Because they say gravity has effects on time. I have some points on that also. But now there is no time! I gotta sleep.

Glory to Allah and peace be upon His prophet Muhammad.

Sadat Tahmeed



Little knowledge of Scinence will make you an atheist, but full knowledge of science will make you a believer in God. (somebody said that !!)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 02:01:29 PM by Tahmeed »

Offline Abdullah Tahmeed

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2015, 05:37:09 AM »
Is that hadith authentic?? And such an important description about God is not in Quran???

Offline submit

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2015, 08:48:15 AM »
There is a reason God cant be seen, angels, sins, deeds/rewards as well. It gives human to ponder about God.
For 1) It is a test from God
For 2) God is just a myth, an imaginary tale from nonsensical humans of the past (this apply to smarter generations)


this is a verse about a child whom became smart, the mind began to ponder and began to judge  based on facts and not the unseen matters.

But he who says to his parents: "Fie upon you both! Do you hold out the promise to me that I shall be raised up (again) when generations before me have passed away (without rising)?"
While they (father and mother) invoke Allah for help (and rebuke their son): "Woe to you! Believe! Verily, the Promise of Allah is true." But he says: "This is nothing but the tales of the ancient."  (46:17)

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2015, 09:01:24 AM »
Assalamu alaikum dear brother,

So sorry I didn't quote the important verse. The hadith is supposed to create confusion.

And they say: "What is there but our life in this world? We shall die and we live, and nothing but time can destroy us." But of that they have no knowledge; they merely conjecture." (sura Jathiah: 24)

The kafirs meant that time will pass and one day they will die, that's why they said that and didn't believe in hereafter. But Allah says they have no knowledge about time ! I think this verse indirectly says that Allah is Time. Because a latter verse says;

Say, "It is Allah Who gives you life, then gives you death, then He will gather you together for the Day of Judgement." But most people don't understand." (verse 26)

At present the previous verse simply refers to people like Stephen Hawking, who believes in the 4D and denies afterlife. But how can we say that Stephen Hawking, who spends his whole life researching on time and space, doesn't know anything about time ?! Stephen himself gives the answer !

One may say that time had a beginning at the big bang, in the sense that earlier times simply would not be defined. (A Brief history of Time, Chapter 1)

See, he admits that he can't define the earlier time! Now, tell me, who existed before the creation of the universe? Allah!

We call the 4D time because it changes things and keeps everything in motion. But then how did this 4D come about? There has to be a first cause. And Hawking says in the same para in chapter 1; An expanding universe does not preclude a Creator, but it does place limits on when He might have carried out His job! So if anyone told Stephen that God is the earlier time he just mentioned, it would make more sense.

God can't be the 4D because that's just a creation. The real Time would be the earlier One Which caused the 4D and the whole universe to come in existence, and Which still exists, controls everything (including the 4D) and will remain forever. Perhaps in that sense Allah says, "I AM Time." But this doesn't have to mean that Allah is an incorporeal Being. His actual appearance is unknown and unimaginable, just like Hawking says, "can't be defined.." !!

And Allah knows best........

To answer atheists you will have to read their books just like you will have to read the bible to answer Christians. And another way to convince them is to show them the overwhelming mathematical and scientific miracles of the Quran, as they worship science instead of Allah and it was impossible for an illiterate Arab to write such a Glorious book !!

Salam,

Sadat Tahmeed
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 09:47:55 AM by Tahmeed »

Offline Abdullah Tahmeed

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2015, 08:29:43 AM »
Submit, Allah knows to believe something we need proof. Does test mean blind belief?? No..

Say today if a man comes and declares himself a prophet or something similar, won't you ask him for proof and start believing???


Offline Abdullah Tahmeed

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2015, 08:36:12 AM »
And they say: "What is there but our life in this world? We shall die and we live, and nothing but time can destroy us." But of that they have no knowledge; they merely conjecture." (sura Jathiah: 24)

Kafirs say Time does it. But Allah say they have no knowledge(this is not speaking about no knowledge about time directly, but no knowledge about their life)

Say, "It is Allah Who gives you life, then gives you death, then He will gather you together for the Day of Judgement." But most people don't understand." (verse 26)

It is Allah who does it, where as kafirs thought time does it. If Allah was time, then "and nothing but time can destroy us" this is very much perfect and works like shahadah, If Allah is time, and you're saying Nothing but Allah can destroy you, then it's perfect!

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2015, 09:35:45 AM »
Salam brother,

When the kafirs said that nothing but time can destroy them, they meant the alternation of day and night by 'time,. That's why they denied the afterlife. But if they had perfect knowledge about what time really is, they wouldn't say that. They just conjecture about time.

And this hadith can be metaphorical also (as I have read in mareful Quran), in that sense it would mean that God is not time, but His power of controling and changing everything is Time. But still then you cant say that the real time is the 4D, because gravity can't affect God's power !!

Bro, I am just trying to say that this hadith can explain the existence of God. I am not telling you to believe it as divine truth. And it would be really helpful if brother Osama or anyone gives a brief commentary on this hadith e qudsi.

Allah knows best...

Peace be upon you,
Sadat Tahmeed

Offline Abdullah Tahmeed

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2015, 10:16:26 AM »
However, a hadith isn't sufficient to come to conclusion of such a in depth topic. And time is controlled by Relativity, gravity etc.

And don't know what kafirs say but the hadith is actually meaning alteration of day and night by time instead of the modern space time concept

Narrated by Abu Huraira, Rasulullah (S) said, Allah, the Glorious and Most exalted says, "Children of Adam displeases Me by abusing Time. But I AM Time, I alternate day and night

Offline submit

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Re: Proof of God
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2015, 12:29:52 AM »
Submit, Allah knows to believe something we need proof. Does test mean blind belief?? No..

Say today if a man comes and declares himself a prophet or something similar, won't you ask him for proof and start believing???

A test is only for those who have believed. Definition for a believer is simply convinced with the teachings of the covenant about God and Day of Judgement as in Islam for.e g. One can be convinced due to the to the prophecies of the past match the current covenant. One can be convinced due to the stories and other signs given were of truth, not made up.

If one declares himself as a prophet today and able  perform miracles, yes there will be many in magnitude start believing in him. As miracles can easily convince the masses. For e.g Dajjal.

As for those who live outside of the period where miraculous events can happen. They (those without religion) can only seek proof of God by reading books. And there are many religion-books out there, they will accept existence of God depending if those religion-book make sense to them.

 

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