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Messages - Egyptian

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I'm sure brother the good intentions behind ur article....   and I don't intend my reply to you to be a negative criticism (the thing I hate  most is muslim vs muslim debate),I have a good intention too by my comments.... it is to revise and strengthen the muslim arguments in comparative religion arena....

I myself used to receive some of criticism and revision to my arguments while engaging in discussions through the years ...and have modified many thoughts,refined my approach etc.....

AS I Had mentioned earlier - Messiah is not the unique  term understand this first.

I had replied to that ,they had waited a UNIQUE messiah king,not an ordinary prophet ....

Also, In mt 16:16 - Jesus never said that I am the messiah. As for Mark 14:60-61 be careful - as u
r accusing him of accepting the fact that he was the the son of god is also true and correct.

well ,will you be satisfied ,if I provide you with textual support "according to the new testament" Jesus said he was the messiah,without saying son of God? here you are.....

John 4:25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.” [/quote]

but you know ? we both already committed grave error !!! we resort to proof text to prove whether Jesus wasn't the messiah or was he !!! 
while the fact ,textual support is wholly without merit in the case of the messiah.... 

the fantastic things predicted about the messiah ,if fulfilled ,would be world wide recognized,and there wouldn't be any chance to be denied or controversial ,or any need for books to explain it,his fulfillment will be as clear as the sunlight!!!

I am sure u had not read the entire article

sure I did and objectively.

I had proven that even the quran says that he was the one about whom the scholars of the judaism and christianity awaited and found him mentioned in their own scriptures.

you have mixed the prophecy about prophet Mohamed peace be upon him "Deuteronomy 18:18" and those regarding the Davidic king messiah.....   the prophet foretold is not one and the same the davidic king messiah..

Leave others - Abdullah ibn salam the ex-jewish sahabi - i hope u have heard and read about him.

No doubt ,Abdullah ibn salam believed that Mohamed (pbuh)was a true prophet from God,but who said that he believed in him as the davidic king messiah prophecised in the tankah? would you quote the man ,plz?

Next post ,I will conclude my comments by showing what the Tankah REALLY say about such so called fantastic messiah,and how the theory of Mohamed (pbuh) as the messiah will not only contradict the old testament but also contradict the Quran and sunnah themselves !!..




COMMENT : -Mt 17:10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?”11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, “Elijah truly shall first come and restore all things.12 But I say unto you that Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they pleased. Likewise shall also the Son of Man suffer by them.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke unto them of John the Baptist.
Similarities between Jesus and Elijah-............................

I think you try to prove that Jesus could be Elijah ...and as he preceded Mohamed pbuh,then Mohamed could be the messiah..... 

you made the same mistake,the zealous writers of the new testament did,when they substituted Elijah with John the baptist,merely for some so called similarities between both !!!!

Quote from:
Elijah holds a unique place in Judaism, as Elijah never actually died in the Bible. In 2 Kings 2:11, Elijah is brought to Heaven in a chariot of fire, after which Elisha takes over as the primary prophet for the Jewish people. However, Elijah will return, and his return will be quite special. In Malachi 3:23-24, we read that Elijah will return at the time of the Messiah:"23: Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the L-RD.24: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the land with utter destruction."
So, we learn from the Book of Malachi that Elijah will herald the coming of the Messiah. Now, many in the Messianic "Jewish" movement adhere to the Christian belief that John was Elijah, as Jesus claimed that John the Baptist was Elijah in Matthew 11:13-14 and 17:10-13. However, John actually denied being Elijah in John 1:21. Most importantly, keep in mind what we learned in the Book of Kings. Elijah never actually died, yet we read of John's birth in the first chapter of Luke. So, John was born approximately at the time of Jesus, yet Elijah was born hundreds of years earlier and never died! Clearly, John cannot actually be Elijah. Luke 1:17 tries to get around this by claiming that John had the power and spirit of Elijah. However, we are again left with a basic problem; Malachi does not predict that someone with the "spirit of Elijah" will come, but that Elijah himself will come. Since Elijah did not come, and Elijah must herald the Messiah, Jesus cannot claim to be the Messiah.

Neither John the baptist nor Jesus could be a fulfillment of the second coming of Elijah who was raised up to heaven alive and will come back alive before the coming of the messiah "according to the old testament itself"......

the fact that Elijah never came back before the mission of Jesus and mohamed pbuh , so they couldn't have been the promised king messiah.

To be continued...



Jesus himself denies that he was the MESSIAH who was predicted in the Tanakh or Old Testament.

Jesus himself AFFIRMED that he was the MESSIAH who was predicted in the Tanakh or Old Testament.

eg; Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter said, “You’re the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus came back, “God bless you, Simon, son of Jonah! You didn’t get that answer out of books or from teachers. My Father in heaven, God himself, let you in on this secret of who I really am.

Mark 14:60-61 In the middle of this, the Chief Priest stood up and asked Jesus, “What do you have to say to the accusation?” Jesus was silent. He said nothing.The Chief Priest tried again, this time asking, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed?”62 Jesus said, “Yes, I am, and you’ll see it yourself.

KING DAVID CALLS HIM MY LORD. COMMENT  :- Jesus himself rejected indirectly that he was the messiah Mt 22:41 

1-There is no rejection at all ,and the original passage not only not about the messiah but the story of the new testament itself is a fabricated one ,manufactured by the writer to make a theological point"that the messiah is more than a human"...

check the wonderful academic criticism of it ,in my study here,71.msg886.html#msg886

anyway even ,for the sake of argument,Jesus affirms himself in the passage as not being the predicted messiah,he affirmed "as previously mentioned" himself as the messiah,which suggests clear contradiction "I don't think so"...

And Making his enemies as his footstool means that he will destroy his enemies unlike Jesus who was destroyed by his own enemies.Prophet Mohammed pbuh was a warrior who destroyed his enemies

here we play the double standards , If you are a Muslim who believe that Mohamed pbuh wasn't destroyed by his enemies then you have to believe that Jesus pbuh wasn't destroyed by his enemies as well ,isn't it?!! 

To be continued


This is a lie as Jews at the time of prophet were waiting for a messiah will be coming from among the arabs/ishmaelites

1- Who are those Jews who waited Arab king messiah(not mere a prophet),quote them plz? more important what is their textual support for that?

Actually Jews during ,before and after the mission of Mohamed (pbuh) were anticipating the coming of the Messiah (and Elias as well)and, as long as he hadn’t arrived, were also prepared to accept a prophet from God until he do,very few of them were capable of believing that God would send a Prophet who was not a Jew.... 

 in John we read
"And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Messiah. And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No."

The Jews correctly based their 3 distinct expectations of the 3 distinct persons: Elias, 2) The Davidic king messiah 3) The prophet. on the distinct prophecies that predict the coming of a prophet like Moses ,and the return of Elias (more details on the that next post),and the Davidic king messiah ...

to sum the point.... very few Jews accepted the idea of prophet from among the Arabs,but that doesn't mean they believed in him as the long awaited Davidic king messiah(surely distinct from mere a prophet) been prophesied in the old testament,and even if they believed so ,the textual input is overwhelmingly against so.

To be continued.


well, now let me refute the article objectively ... the basic shortcomings in the article :
1- the arguments based on religious zeal not rationality neither objectivity.
2- arguments crops up in the middle of others making disorganization.
3- irrelevant elaborations to relevant points.
4- constant misuse of the textual support.

I will begin with the point of agreements between us...

Why do the jews reject Jesus as their messiah is because he criticised them exposed their hypocrisy,double standard

I think so,as only one of the reasons.

If jews are asked as to why they reject Jesus as their messiah? They will simply say that he didn’t fulfilled any prophecy.

Not only Jews believe so..... I think any rational objective truth seeker must believe so.

And If Christians are asked as to why jews(the chosen ones) rejected jesus as messiah? Christians will quickly reply – He will fulfill it in the second coming.  The Christians fail or may be they are not aware that there is nothing like second coming of the messiah from Judaism’s own sources or Old testament and may be talmud. Even if they quote some verse – it is regarded as mis-interpretation by the chosen people themselves.



Mohamed (pbuh) never claimed himself as the awaited king messiah in order for Jews to reject him as messiah.  they reject any claims of him as received a message from God whether a claim to be the messiah (something he never claimed) or a prophet ....

The main reason they rejected messiah is because he came from among the arabs or ishmaelites and not the Israelites. .

In light of the fact that the old testament affirms that the Messiah will be descended from his father through the line of King addition (as you wrote in your article) The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10).

The lineage of Mohamed (pbuh) can't be traced back to king David so he can't be (for that reason and many others) such so called messiah.

though that point and alone refutes the whole article... I will go on add more facts against the claim the Mohamed (pbuh) was the awaited Jewish king messiah.

More positive criticism in next post....     and plz give me time to comment on the whole article.... afterward make counter arguments or agreements with me if you would like to...

take care



I disagree with the previous article ,actually not one prediction regarding the so called "king Messiah" ,has been fulfilled either by Jesus or Mohamed "peace be upon them"...

The so called "king messiah" is nothing but mere a Jewish dream emerged after the destruction of the Davidic monarchy and the Jews dream of a future Earthly king who will turn the Earth into Paradise etc....

not only almost nothing happened either during or after the life of the prophet Mohamed  that can be linked to be a fulfillment to any prediction to such so called Messiah, but more important ....the way the old testament predicts the future goes so much against the way the Quran predicts the future.... 

If not the predicted king messiah be Jesus or Mohamed (peace be upon them),then who is he?

the answer : Just who cares? and who could prove that the old testaments' predictions are inspired ones?!

I have a detailed study dealing with the matter in great details,for those interested to elaborate...

click here,27.0.html


Bible Prophecies / Re: bible prophecies??????
« on: February 04, 2014, 10:19:20 PM »


please visit the following link to my detailed exposition to such imaginary prophecy ..,27.msg817.html#msg817

any comment is welcomed..

GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need your opinion please!
« on: September 10, 2013, 05:45:36 AM »

Beware of Fallacy of equivocation;

That shouldn't be directed at me..... I don't believe that the Quran teaches Adam as descended from other creation.... neither  I will deny the strong clues for evolution .... Is that a contradiction? not at all and I posted that once in another thread... so no need for repititon ....

none  except Allah knows the real meaning of the Verses of the Quran.

I don't think the verses brought by the supporters of "Adam's parents theory in the Quran" should be included under "mutashabihat" their meaning is very clear ,just the supporters read so much in between the lines...

next post inshallah another visit to the verses ...

GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need your opinion please!
« on: September 09, 2013, 12:29:22 PM »

Brothers .....  I don't think the thread is about the validity of the well established scientific theory of evolution ,but whether the quran supports the concept of Adam preceded by other creation that he was evolved from ......

so plz let's focus on the issue....  also let's make the discussion civil without attacking each others persons.... 

the issue doesn't merit a heated debate....  neither merit a debate ,really..

the only thing that made me interested to share ,is Bro Mclinkin's obvious interest in the topic which he demostrated by several times he posted what is related to the issue....

though I disagree with his approach to the matter ,still it is not a matter would get him outside the fold of islam ......

till next posts

May Allah bless you....

GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need your opinion please!
« on: September 08, 2013, 08:45:11 AM »
I just wanted to let you know that before I start, that I am doing nothing but searching for the truth. I strive for intellectual honesty, and this has brought me in life so far.

I'm glad for your efforts for searching the truth , and the matter under discussion ,should be discussed with relaxation,as it is not a serious one,neither invented by you....

atually few muslims gave alternative readings to some Quranic verse to reach such conclusion ,including the controversial Islamic scholar Abdel-Sabour Shahin... who wrote the book "My Father Adam, the Story of Creation between Myth and Truth."
his book was criticised and his hypothesis were refuted totally by all other scolars in Al-Azhar university and other scholars ,including Dr Zaghloul El-Naggar.
in spite of the criticism ,there is no scholar blasphemied him , as simply his flawed hypothesis won't get him outside the fold of Islam...

the basic falws in the hypothesis ,is that it misapplies verses, go beyond their simple literal meaning,conjecturing much between the lines...

though I agree with you when you said :

The problem with the interpretation of the Quran the same way the companions understood it, is that, the Quran is meant for all times and places, not just them.

but that doesn't mean, we should be zealous to get something out of nothing ....

That The prophet Muhammad and his companions have to fight off the oppressors so that Islam could spread! If everyone that believed did not go forth with keeping Islam alive. Allah has threatened them that he will punish them and replace them with another people. That means humanity has failed in spreading Allah’s message by their own choice! 

It is the believers task to spread Islam to humanity ,and they didn't fail ,they indeed spread it...

then on the earth there are no beleivers...

on Earth there are believers,and they try hard to spread Islam....

If The only believers at the time (Muslims) failed themselves, Allah will punish them and replace mankind with another people.

Muslims don't fail in spreading Islam,and islam is the fastest growing religion...

If all the believers become disbelievers and wrong-doers.

no warning in the verse for the believers that if they become disbelievers and wrong-doers,they will be replaced by other evolved mankind ...... but simply "assuming the believers as a general term encompassing all the muslims all over the ages,and not merely the companions of the prophet" If they won't support the prophet in Jihad ,they will be punished humilated and be replaced by those who have more faith and zeal to jihad..

To be continued

GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need your opinion please!
« on: September 07, 2013, 03:20:13 PM »
I have some final additions inshallah but not today time is short now

thanx for reading

May Allah bless us all and increase our knowledge...

GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need your opinion please!
« on: September 07, 2013, 02:52:26 PM »
(Quran 6.133)  If He wills, he can do away with you and give succession after you to WHATEVER He wills, just as He produced you from the descendants of another people.

Note: The Quran specifically uses the word "Whatever" or "What" ("ma" in Arabic ما). This Arabic word "ma" cannot refer to humans; this word is strictly reserved for non-humans (the Arabic word that does refer to humans is "man من", meaning "who" or "whoever" but it was not used here).

1- The Arabic word "ما ma" can refer to humans , example:

Holy Quran 4:3  But if ye fear that ye cannot do justice between orphans, then marry what "مَا ma" seems good to you of women.

2- the Arabic word " قوم Qawm" which is translated as  "people,folk" in the verse ,is a strong clue that we are descendant of  humans , as the word "qawm" never used in Arabic as a reference to animals, or any non-humans.....   

GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need your opinion please!
« on: September 07, 2013, 01:55:05 PM »

(Quran 2:30) And when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority."

First : successor here was always understood as succesor to jin on one hand ,or a successor - representative of Allah on Earth, judging by his law..

the second meaning is strong ,as it is supported by similar verse:

Quran 2:30 O David, We have made you a successor on Earth. Therefore, you shall judge among the people with truth...

Second : even if we assume for the sake of argument that Adam was a successor to other humans, what is there in the verse to suggest that Adam evolved from those Ape like humans ,instead of Adam was a succesor to them after they were eradicated totally from Earth??

to be concluded next post

GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need your opinion please!
« on: September 07, 2013, 01:19:04 PM »

If you note in the previous two noble verses, Allah afirms his ability to make new creation ,but not through evolving from previous humans ,but after eradicating the whole humanity no space here to impose evolution on the noble verses....


the next noble verses :

from changing the nature of your existence and bringing you into being [anew] in a manner [as yet] unknown to you.

Holy quran 56:61Have you ever considered what you emit? Did you create it, or are We its Creators? We have ordained death for (all of) you; no one will get ahead to prevent Us  from changing your attributes, and transforming you into something you would never recognize.

the words in bold were understood by some tafsir scholars as:

"in replacing you with others the same as you and re-forming you in a way you know nothing about. "

If the verse could be understood as a threaten then the first meaning is more sound........
and the meaning would be a threat to them of transforming their physical appearance to be like Apes or pigs... it could also mean ,Allah is able to change both the appearance and the behaviour of them ,as he wishes..

Whatever meaning you adhere to ,there is nothing in the verse that suggests that Allah did so, neither in past or future....

Allah's ability to do something ,doesn't neccesarily requires ,that he already did it.

our next noble verse

GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I need your opinion please!
« on: September 07, 2013, 12:07:45 PM »
Bro Mclinkin ..  I haven't finished all the verses related yet ,and I'm about to answer your question in the conclusion ..
and will be pleased to read any notes..

the next similar verse:

Holy Quran 6:28 Behold, they [who are unmindful of God] love this fleeting life, and leave behind them [all thought of] a grief-laden Day.[They will not admit to themselves that] it We who have created them and strengthened their make - and [that] if it be Our will We can replace them entirely with others of their kind.


now with verses with broader meaning :

Holy quran 14:19 Have you not seen how God has really created Heaven and Earth? If He so wished, He would remove you and bring on a fresh creation.

Holy quran  4:133 If He so wills, He can cause you, O mankind, to disappear, and bring forth other beings [in your stead]: for God has indeed the power to do this.

in the previous verses Allah the almighty affims that he can eradicate the humans and brings forth others ...
no meaning should be conjectured beyond what I mentioned....


our next noble verse

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