Author Topic: Refuting Mr. Osama Abdullah's "Letter to the atheist"  (Read 5057 times)

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Offline The Canadian Atheist

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Refuting Mr. Osama Abdullah's "Letter to the atheist"
« on: October 02, 2013, 07:33:11 AM »
The link the creator of the website posted for "answering atheism" goes like this:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/ats.html
"I don't blame you for becoming an atheist, you were probably, if I may venture, taught all your life that the Bible is the word of God and don't read the Qur'an."
Actually, I tried all religions before making my decision...

"This deleted all options except to become an atheist."
Nope, Agnosticism was still there.

"In the Qur'an, God assures you that those who tampered with the Bible, those who drove you to be atheist are burning in hell."
Um..that's not very reassuring. Am I supposed to feel good about people burning in eternity?

"There are zero contradictions in the Qur'an."
Nope, there are several, like how many days was the Earth created in?

"God wrote that the Earth is oval (Qur'an 79:28) over 1,400 years ago which was just discovered less than 50 years ago while the majority of Christians up to the 1800's believed it was to be flat, and then believed to be perfectly round.."
The ancients knew a lot about astronomy. The ancient Egyptians, 2000 BC, knew the Earth was not flat, but spherical in shape. They even calculated the circumference of the Earth with a medium accuracy. The Hindus calculated the circumference to 90+% accuracy. By Galileo's time, it was common knowledge, but the Catholic Church didn't like the idea of a spherical Earth because it conflicted with their religious texts (Much like how they deny evolution!)

"God put water in and on this earth in precise measurement so that you can survive." (Qur'an 23:18), God raised mountains from the Earth so that the earth crust does not quake with you." (Qur'an 16:15). All phenomenon's and much more that humans discovered less than a few centuries ago while it was written in the Qur'an over 1,400 years ago."

Again, the water thing was already known to man back then. I think the mention of isostacy is just a mere coincidence.

"The Qur'an is a book from God, who else could have removed the curse of Babylon by having only the true believers in ONE God (1.5 Billion) speaking only 1 language and only 27% of Muslims are Arabs."

Numbers are meaningless. That's an argumentum ad populum

"You will discover why missionaries, bishops and preachers are converting, http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/newmuslims/ all who have had the temporary lapse of atheism such as yourself."
Argument from authority.

Offline Black Muslim

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Re: Refuting Mr. Osama Abdullah's "Letter to the atheist"
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2013, 10:03:34 AM »
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Actually, I tried all religions before making my decision...
Actually , you didn't . From our many conversations with you , you took your information from Islamophobic sites . I doubt you even know the basic pillars of Islam and faith belief .

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Nope, there are several, like how many days was the Earth created in?
Watch this video of Ahmad Deedat and laugh at yourself :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kFodus3gzY

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Numbers are meaningless. That's an argumentum ad populum
Indeed ! And I don't think he meant to use it as evidence . Just don't make us catch you using the same argument later .

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: Refuting Mr. Osama Abdullah's "Letter to the atheist"
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2013, 10:36:28 AM »
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Actually, I tried all religions before making my decision...

OK.

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Nope, Agnosticism was still there.

OK. Did you expect us to beg you into Islam? :P

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Um..that's not very reassuring. Am I supposed to feel good about people burning in eternity?

Another emotional argument.  >:(  Those who burn in hell will be those who have heard about Islam and denied it through arrogance, refusal to worship, or intellectual dishonesty. Those who have never heard of Islam or studied it will get a second chance in the hereafter and then they may be saved or burn in hell?

Is hell eternal: There is a view of the Quran that hell isn't actually eternal and that it is for a very long time. I'm not saying you should follow this view, I'm just putting it out there. They actually derived it from Quranic verses and they explain that the Quran meant to allude to the fact that Hell is going to be a very long time. I personally do not care, what's the difference between a million years and an eternity. I wouldn't want either.

Assuming hell is eternal: Is it a fair punishment? Well if Allah left you to stay in the Earth and allowed you to live for eternity, you would disbelieve for an eternity. So eternal punishment is definitely fair for those who are arrogant.

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"There are zero contradictions in the Qur'an."
Nope, there are several, like how many days was the Earth created in?

If you think there is a contradiction in the Quran, ask yourself the following:

Have I made any unverified assumptions?
Have I considered all possible definitions of the words?
Have I considered all possible translations of the words?
Have I considered all grammatical syntactic definitions/renderings?

If the answer is no to the first one and yes to the last 3 and there still is a contradiction--you have found a contradiction. Nobody has successfully found a Quranic contradiction. You too will find that there isn't a single contradiction in the Quran.

Now lets delve into the verse you have in Question, my guess is that it is Quran when it says he created everything in 6 and when you believe he said 8 in 41:9-12.

 41:9 (...He who created the earth in two days..),  41:10 (..and determined therein its sustenance in four days without distinction). 41:11 (Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being]...). 41:12 (so He completed them as seven heavens within two days..)

This verse is not saying 2+4+2= the creation of everything. I don't understand where people get this from. The verse is clear. Allah created The Earth in 2 days. He put things on earth and made it how it is. He DETERMINED/MEASURED the sustenance in 4 days. This doesn't mean he created it in 4 days. Rather it means that 4 days passed at his throne and THEN he told the Earth to form, these first 4 days were necessary to allow things to sustain the Earth (scientifically these 4 days would be when the universe would forming stars to give the Earth atoms to support life).  After he determined Earth sustenance, he brought the universe to come into existence. When he brought the universe into existence, he made 7 dimensions (layers) within it and each Layer has its natural function.

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The ancients knew a lot about astronomy. The ancient Egyptians, 2000 BC, knew the Earth was not flat, but spherical in shape. They even calculated the circumference of the Earth with a medium accuracy. The Hindus calculated the circumference to 90+% accuracy. By Galileo's time, it was common knowledge, but the Catholic Church didn't like the idea of a spherical Earth because it conflicted with their religious texts (Much like how they deny evolution!)

Yes they did know a lot of astronomy, but only some beliefs were accurate. The Ancient egyptians also made mistakes and not everyone at that time believed the Earth was oval. Some believed that it was actually flat, others believed it was round disk, others believed it was perfectly round etc.

How did Muhammad always manage to never say the inaccurate stuff that the ancients made said and put only the accurate stuff. That speaks to me.



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Again, the water thing was already known to man back then. I think the mention of isostacy is just a mere coincidence.

[Missing citation] Further, of course everything in the Quran is just a mere coincidence :P

further, like I said before, the Quran presents things that support 7th century belief and modern belief without contradicting either belief. So it uses words precisely so that they support beliefs of all times.



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Numbers are meaningless. That's an argumentum ad populum

Agreed. But it should mean something to you.

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Argument from authority.

Agreed. But again, it should mean something to you when knowledgeable people convert to Islam. Perhaps that Islam is worth examining?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 10:59:34 AM by mclinkin94 »

Offline The Canadian Atheist

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Re: Refuting Mr. Osama Abdullah's "Letter to the atheist"
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2013, 03:32:03 PM »
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OK. Did you expect us to beg you into Islam? :P

Nope, I was just replying to the letter.

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Those who have never heard of Islam or studied it will get a second chance in the hereafter and then they may be saved or burn in hell?

Citation please.

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if Allah left you to stay in the Earth and allowed you to live for eternity,

Nope, no such thing as eternal life. All humans will, without exception, die. The place they go to after death is μ (nothingness). It's a harsh fact, but it's the truth. Atheists have everything to live for, nothing to die for. Christians/Muslims have nothing to live for, and heaven to die for.

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: Refuting Mr. Osama Abdullah's "Letter to the atheist"
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2013, 10:30:39 PM »

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Citation please.

Its obvious that the primary source of any Islamic discussion is the Quran :P. Time and time again in the Quran, it refers to the disbelievers as those who have seen the evidence and denied or those who willingly disobeyed.

Example: Quran 17:15 Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.

^This verse makes it clear that no one gets punished unless they receive the message.

Quran 19:73 And when Our verses are recited to them as clear evidences, those who disbelieve say to those who believe, "Which of [our] two parties is best in position and best in association?"

^hints that a disbeliever is those who have seen the message.

Further: Allah is just

Further: Linguistically and spiritually, there is immense beauty in the way the Quran uses the term

 

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