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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / is there any authenticity to this
« on: November 20, 2013, 02:12:53 PM »
is there any authenticity   the the 2nd temple in jeruslam believed the messiah to be divinve and god in the flesh

here is the site

Assalam alykam can some one with good knowledge refute this

Assalam alykam

can somone please  watch this video and give a good refutation  on every point please

Assalam alykam  here is a question i asked a Jew

did the disciples believe Jesus was God???

he replied

"did the disciples of Jesus believe that Jesus is the creator and that the Messiah is God in the flesh?", the answer is : absolutely not. They were all Jews who believed that Jesus was a God-inspired teacher whose teaching was 100% consistent with Torah and whose teaching would help Israel and the world follow God's commandments so that God's Kingdom could become a reality.

You also said : "Us Muslims say he is the word of God or the spirit from God. Some Christians say that some Jews believe this..??? can you tell me where they got this concept of Jesus being God ??" Our answer on this is as follows:
- We didn't know that Muslims believe that Jesus is "the word of God or the spirit from God". For sure Muslims believe that Jesus was NOT God.
- Judaism believes that God can manifest in many ways (remember when God showed Himself to Abraham as one of the three visitors before the destruction of Sdom and Gmorrah?, or when God appeared like a angel who wrestled with Jacob and dislocated Jacob's hip? or when God appeared to Moses like a voice from a burning bush?). BUT Jews are not allowed to approach God thru any type of manifestation, even if that was a actual true manifestation of God. So even if God appears to Moses as a burning bush, Jews are forbidden to think of God as a burning bush. Or if God appears to Abraham as a visitor, Jews are forbidden to think of God as a human. Jews likewise don't have a problem believing a Hindu if a Hindu says that God manifested to him as a person called Krishna. And Jews don't have a problem believe a Christian if the Christian says that God manifested to him thru the human called Jesus. After all, if God manifested as a burning bush or a angel wrestling Jacob or a visitor to Abraham, why couldn't God manifest as other things to other people ? BUT Jews are not allowed to think of God by depicting any manifestation that God may have appeared under. After all those were just manifestations. Jews, like Muslims, are required to reach out to God without using or depicting anything created. That may be ok for Hindus to reach out to God thru Krishna, or for Christians to reach out to God thru Jesus. But it's not ok for Jews or Muslims.

- Regarding, "where did Christians get the concept of Jesus being a manifestation of God?". The answer is: from two places: (a) Platonism, and (b) Greek and Persian Mithology.
In Platonism, Plato correctly says that God is the creator of EVERYTHING, and therefore God can not be anything of this world. For example, one can not say "God is generous" because invented Generosity and can not be limited by that. All you can say is "God has been generous to me", but you can not limit God by saying that God is this or that. So then Plato asks this question: "If God is nothing of this world, then how is it that God can influence the world without being "in" the world?". Plato answered this question as follows: "God has a Tool that He uses to influence things in the created world. This Tool allows God to stay removed from things created, while still being able to influence creation. Plato called this Tool : Logos/Word. In other words, God says or thinks something and that "word" or "thought" enters the world and becomes a created thing and influences the world. Then Christianity simply said "Ah, Christ is the Word, yes the Word made Flesh.".
And how did that Word-made-flesh get born? That they took from Hercules and Mithras.

Finally, you asked: "what does Messiah mean i know it means anointed but is there any other meaning". We're not aware of any other meaning. Although you should look into the difference between "Moshiah" and "Mashiah". One is annointed and one is savior. The Torah uses both terms. Some of that may have also caused confusion in Christianity regarding the Annointed possibly also being a Savior. (But Torah tells us that Only God Saves. Annointed is a servant of God, and only God Saves.).

Assalam alykam here is my revert story video link below

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Messenger of Allāh صلى الله عليه وسلم said, "No one is born except they are upon Al-Fitrāh (instinct). His parents turn him into a Jew or Christian or Magian, just as animals produce their young with perfect limbs. Do you see anything defective?" Then Abu Hurairah, recite the verse if you wish, "So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. (Adhere to) the fitrah of Allāh upon which He has created the people. No change should there be in the creation of Allāh. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know." (Surah Ar-Rūm 30:30)

[Sahih Muslim, Book 33, Number 6423]  here is my youtube Channel

Assalam alykam  as you know   christians try to use the book of revelation prophecies

regarding  anti christ and false prophet

they say its isa pbuh and imam mahdi

here is a video of a Muslim brother talking about the coming of Isa pbuh and imam mahdi and the dajjal

christians try to fit what it says in revelation with  Islamic prophecies 

 they try to say  the beast is Isa and the imam mahdi is the dajjal  or they say that one is the false prophet and one is the anti christ mentioned in revelation

ive seen the refutation to this on AC already

in our islamic prophercy  Isa will annoint people on the forhead as mentioned in the video above 

they say Musilms will be fighting the Jesus of the bible and thinking they are fighting the anti christ,,  they say this because  they say why would Jesus fight against Israel and they say God is coming back

is the book of revelation just hearsay  is there any truth in the book of revelation  or is it just some one on a  acid trip writing a book  ???     why do Christians believe in it so much ???

they say Jesus speaks through book of revelation   

i know a little bit of knowledge on the history  of book of revelation

their  strong argument hey use is that the book of revelation  mentions a religous leader is the anti christ and they say the muslim leader has similarities  and characteristics as imam mahdi

 where do they get this information ???    what is the best way to shut them up

Assalam alykam

christians try to disprove Muhammad's prophet saying there was no witness to him seeing jibraeel

how can i answer them

here are the verses they bring up

Matthew 18:16
But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

Matthew 26:60
But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two came forward

John 7:51
"Does our law condemn a man without first hearing him to find out what he has been doing?"

John 8:17
In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true.

2 Corinthians 13:1
This will be my third visit to you. "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."

1 Timothy 5:19
Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

Hebrews 10:28
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Assalam alykam christians always use these verses

can you please tell me  the history behind these verses and where they in the early manuscripts

can you please give me something to say to these christians  who use these verses

Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

◄ Luke 24 ►
New International Version
Jesus Has Risen

1On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them,

Assalam alykam can you please watch  this debate  between Cl abu batil backwards vs brother Shahid lewis

watch the opening statement  by cl backwards which last about  20 mins

Assalam alykam check this out and please refute  Some of the pre-Islamic Sources for Material in the Quran
Arabian Sources
The Quran repeats fanciful Arabian fables as if they were true.
"Arabic legends about the fabulous jinns fill its pages" (G.G. Pfander, Balance of Truth, pp. 283).
"The story of the she-camel who leapt out of a rock and became a prophet was known long before Muhammad" (Suras 7:73-77,85; 91:14; 54:29).
The story of an entire village of people who were turned into apes because they broke the sabbath by fishing was a popular legend in Muhammad's day (Suras 2:65; 7:163-166).
The gushing 12 springs story found in Sura 2:60 comes from pre-Islamic legends.
In what is called the "Rip Van Winkle" story, seven men and their animals slept for 309 years in a cave and then woke up perfectly fine (Sura 18:9-26)!
This legend is found in Greek and Christian fables as well as Arabian lore.
The fable of the pieces of four dead, cut-up birds getting up and flying was well known in Muhammad's time (Sura 2:260).
It is also clear that Muhammad used such pre-Islamic literature as the Saba Moallaqat of Imra'ul Cays in his composition of Suras 21:96; 29:31,46; 37:59; 54:1, and 93:1.
Jewish Sources
Many of the stories in the Quran come from the Jewish Talmud, the Midrash, and many apocryphal works.
This was pointed out by Abraham Geiger in 1833, and further documented by another Jewish scholar, Dr. Abraham Katsh, of New York University, in 1954 (The Concise Dictionary of Islam, p. 229; Jomier, The Bible and the Quran -- Henry Regency Co., Chicago, 1959, 59ff; Sell, Studies, pp. 163ff.; Guillaume, Islam, p. 13).
1. The source of Sura 3:35-37 is the fanciful book called The Protevangelion's James the Lesser.
2. The source of Sura 87:19 is the Testament of Abraham.
3. The source of Sura 27:17-44 is the Second Targum of Esther.
4. The fantastic tale that God made a man "die for a hundred years" with no ill effects on his food, drink, or donkey was a Jewish fable (Sura 2:259ff.).
5. The idea that Moses was resurrected and other material came from the Jewish Talmud (Sura 2:55, 56, 67).
6. The story in Sura 5:30,31 can also be found in pre-Islamic works from Pirke Rabbi Eleazer, the Targum of Jonathan ben Uzziah and the Targum of Jerusalem.
7. The tale of Abraham being delivered from Nimrod's fire came from the Midrash Rabbah (see Suras 21:51-71; 29:16, 17; 37:97,98).
It must be also pointed out that Nimrod and Abraham did not live at the same time. Muhammad was always mixing people together in the Quran who did not live at the same time.
8. The non-biblical details of the visit of the Queen of Sheba (Saba) in Sura 27:20-44 came from the Second Targum of the Book of Esther.
9. The source of Sura 2:102 is no doubt the Midrash Yalkut (chapter 44).
10. The story found in Sura 7:171 of God lifting up Mount Sinai and holding it over the heads of the Jews as a threat to squash them if they rejected the law came from the Jewish book Abodah Sarah.
11. The story of the making of the golden calf in the wilderness, in which the image jumped out of the fire fully formed and actually mooed (Suras 7:148; 20:88), came from Pirke Rabbi Eleazer.
12, The seven heavens and hells described in the Quran came from the Zohar and the Hagigah.
13. Muhammad utilized the Testament of Abraham to teach that a scale or balance will be used on the day of judgment to weigh good and bad deeds in order to determine whether one goes to heaven or hell (Suras 42:17; 101:6-9).
Heretical Christian Sources
One of the most documented and damaging facts about the Quran is that Muhammad used heretical "Christian" Gnostic gospels and their fables for material in the Quran.
Encyclopedia Britannica comments:
"The gospel was known to him chiefly through apocryphal and heretical sources" (15:648).
This has been demonstrated many times by various scholars (Richard Bell, Introduction to the Quran, pp. 163ff. See also: Bell, The Origin of Islam in Its Christian Environment, pp. 110ff, 139ff; Sell, Studies, pp. 216ff. See also Tisdall and Pfander).
For example, in Suras 3:49 and 100:11O, the baby Jesus speaks from the cradle! Later on, the Quran has Jesus making clay birds come alive.
The Bible tells us that the first miracle Jesus did was at the wedding at Cana (John 2:11).
Sabean Sources
Muhammad incorporated parts of the religion of the Sabeans into Islam (Encyclopedia off Islam (ed. Eliade), pp. 303ff.; International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, pp. 1:219ff.).
He adopted such pagan rituals as:
Worshiping at Kabah
Praying five times a day towards Mecca (Muhammad chose five of the same times the Sabeans prayed).
Fasting for part of a day for an entire month.
Eastern Religious Sources
Muhammad derived some of his ideas from Eastern religions such as Zoroastrianism and Hinduism. All of these things were in existence long before Muhammad was born.
The Quran records the following things which are ascribed to Muhammad but in reality were previously known stories now attributed to him for the first time (Sell, Studies, pp. 219ff.).
The story of a flying trip through seven heavens.
The Houries of paradise.
Azazil and other spirits coming up from Hades.
The "light" of Muhammad.
The bridge of Sirat.
Paradise with its wine, women, and song (from the Persians).
The king of death.
The peacock story.

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