Author Topic: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 7017 times)

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Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« on: June 12, 2013, 03:17:23 AM »
KAFIRS claim that Quran's scientific miracles are derived from the Greeks. How should we answer them in order to shut their mouth ??????????????

Offline Sama

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Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 08:21:45 AM »
Why did quran mention only the proven facts -Chance ?

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 06:18:58 PM »
AsalamuAlaikum

Can you post there claims please?

Jazak Allah Khairan


Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 06:02:21 AM »
Some people are claiming that the idea of Quran's Embryology is incorrect and is Greek scientist Galen's idea. In favor of their justification they say the following thing, 

           The Quran in Sura At Tariq ( Chapter 86 verse# 6-7) says

 " He is created from a water gushing forth
 Proceeding from between the back-bone and the ribs"

 According to science there are two seminal vesicles behind the urinary bladder. The testicles produce only 5% of the sperm. The seminal vesicles produce between 60 to 70% of the semen content per ejaculation. The seminal vesicles are located near the urinary bladder not between the backbone and ribs. So the verse is clearly in error. There was a Greek Physicist called Galen. He lived in 100 A.D he believed in the idea that men is created from ejaculated liquid gushing from backbone and the sperm.(YAHOO ANSWER)



Offline mclinkin94

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Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 11:42:26 AM »
Show me where Galen said that sperm forms between backbone and ribs first.

Firstly you need to understand the translation:


You need to realize that people online will deceive you against Islam and make false allegations to destroy your faith. Skeptics will always be skeptics.

here is comprehensive study on the subject:

http://www.iera.org.uk/downloads/Embryology_in_the_Quran_v2.pdf

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2013, 02:22:30 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers and sisters,

This links too should also give thorough answers, insha'Allah:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/bones_then_muscles_wrapping.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/sex_determination.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Sama

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Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2013, 04:09:33 AM »
Quote

           The Quran in Sura At Tariq ( Chapter 86 verse# 6-7) says

 " He is created from a water gushing forth
 Proceeding from between the back-bone and the ribs"

 According to science there are two seminal vesicles behind the urinary bladder. The testicles produce only 5% of the sperm. The seminal vesicles produce between 60 to 70% of the semen content per ejaculation. The seminal vesicles are located near the urinary bladder not between the backbone and ribs. So the verse is clearly in error.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1122.msg3798.html#msg3798

Quote
There was a Greek Physicist called Galen. He lived in 100 A.D he believed in the idea that men is created from ejaculated liquid gushing from backbone and the sperm.

Galen and embryology

Galen (129-199 AD) was a physician and scholar, whose ideas dominated medicine until the Renaissance. Galen’s theory of embryology is to be found in his On the Natural Faculties, and On the Formation of the Foetus, which deals more with the anatomical aspects.

Galen regarded the living being as owing all its characteristics to an indwelling physis or natural entity with whose “faculties” or powers it was the province of physiology to deal. The living organism was thought to have a kind of artistic creative power, which acts on the things around it by means of the faculties, by the aid of which each part attracts to itself what is useful and good for it, and repels what is not. These faculties, such as the “peptic faculty” in the stomach and the “sphygmic faculty” in the heart, are regarded by Galen as the causes of the specific functions or activity of the part in question.

Galen divides the effects of the faculties into three, genesis, growth and nutrition, and means by the first what we mean by embryogeny.

“Genesis is not a simple activity of Nature, but is compounded of alteration and of shaping. That is to say, in order that bone, nerve, veins and all other tissues may come into existence, the underlying substance from which the animal springs must be altered; and in order that the substance so altered may acquire its appropriate shape and position, its cavities, outgrowths, and attachments, and so forth, it has to undergo a shaping or formative process. One would be justified in calling this substance which undergoes alteration the material of an animal, just as wood is the material of a ship and wax of an image.”

Galen then goes on to treat embryogeny in more detail. Galen did not think that menstrual blood played a role in procreation, but concluded that female semen forms the allantoois and the coagulation of male and female semen in the uterus results in the formation of the chorion. He spoke about four stages of development. And he also divided the body into two classes, partes spermaticae and partes sanguineae, a classification which remained in use for several hundred years.

“The seed having been cast into the womb or into the earth – for there is no difference [he says] then after a certain definite period a great number of parts become constituted in the substance which is being generated; these differ as regards moisture, dryness, coldness and warmth, and in all the other qualities which naturally derive therefrom [such as hardness, softness, viscosity, friability, lightness, heaviness, density, rarity, smoothness, roughness, thickness and thinness]. Now nature constructs bone, cartilage, nerve, membrane, ligament, vein and so forth at the first stage of the animal’s genesis, employing at this task a faculty which is, in general terms, generative and alterative, and, in more detail, warming, chilling, drying and moistening, or such as spring from the blending of these, for example, the bone-producing, nerve-producing and cartilage-producing, faculties (since for the sake of clearness these terms must be used as well).

Now the peculiar flesh of the liver is of a certain specific kind, also that of the spleen, that of the kidneys and that of the lungs, and that of the heart, so also the proper substance of the brain, stomach, oesophagus, intestines and uterus is a sensible element, of similar parts all through, simple and uncompounded.

… Thus the special alterative faculties in each animal are of the same number as the elementary parts, and further, the activities must necessarily correspond each to one of the special parts, just as each part has its special use. As for the actual substance of the coats of the stomach, intestine and uterus, each of these has been rendered what it is by a special alterative faculty of Nature; while the bringing of these together, the combination therewith of the structures that are inserted into them, etc., have all been determined by a faculty which we call the shaping or formative faculty; this faculty we also state to be artistic-nay, the best and highest art-doing everything for some purpose, so that there is nothing ineffective or superfluous, or capable of being better disposed.”

Galen shared many common views with the Hippocratic writers so the book on the formation of the embryo first gives a historical account of the views these writers. Then it goes on to describe the anatomy of allantois, amnios, placenta and membranes.

“I return again to what was postponed from the beginning. This (embryo) draws to itself through the vessels descending to the uterus blood and pneuma, each to its own particular cavity; and, as was said earlier also, along with its own particular cavity ; and as was said earlier also, along with the pneuma that comes through the arteries, it draws in a blood that is finer and warmer than the blood in the veins.

From these it creates tile warmest of the inner organs; and that other thick blood produces for it the form of the liver. And accordingly the many veins that pass through the chorion proceed to (the liver); but the arteries (proceed) to the other organ, the warmer one, which because of a superabundance of heat like a flame does not stop moving but constantly expands and contracts by turns. The veins and arteries that carry matter to these inner organs are as it were their roots; and those that carry (the matter) out to the whole foetus are analogous to trunks that split into many branches. And they too have their generation in the hollowing out of the substance of the semen.

The third of the ruling parts, from which all the nerves grow. has its generation from the semen itself and from it alone. For in the mixing with the female semen many of the bubbles burst, and the pneuma from them passed inside and deep down, in the desire to preserve itself- it was not a kind of vapour but was a self-moving source of the animal and likewise the surrounding fluid of its own accord formed within the semen a cavity filled with pneuma. Then to prevent its being readily emptied out, (the puenma) makes for itself a tightly sealed chamber, pushing back to the outer circumference all that was thicker and harder in the semen’s moist substance surrounding it; and this, when heated and dried, would in time be alone

The power that moulds the animal performs this work at the start; but it is not yet visible at the start because of its small size; when it can first be seen, these are the largest and they lie in order, close to each other and touching, the part that is going to become the source of the nerves, the one that we call the brain being assigned to a higher post; and below it the heart and liver touching each other. As time goes on the three sources mentioned stand further apart and send their offshoots this way and that to the entire body of the animal that is fitted to them, the brain sending out the spinal medulla, a kind of trunk, as it were, the heart the greatest artery, which Aristotle calls the aorta, and the liver the vena cava. And also in the early stages, simultaneously with the generation of these parts, the spine appears around the spinal medulla, hardened in just the way that we described a little earlier; and around the brain, enclosing it on all sides, the cranium appears; and the thorax around the heart, like some spacious yet tightly sealed chamber. At the time of birth this would be not a chamber only, but the first and principal organ of respiration. These parts, then, come into being at some later time.

But let us take the account back again to the first conformation of the animal, and in order to make our account orderly and clear, let us divide the creation of the foetus overall into four periods of time. The first is that in which as is seen both in abortions and in dissection, the form of the semen prevails. At this time, Hippocrates too, the all marvellous, does not yet call the conformation of the animal a foetus; as we heard just now in the case of semen voided in the sixth day, he still calls it semen. But when it has been filled with blood, and heart, brain and liver are still unarticulated and unshaped yet have by now a certain solidarity and considerable size, this is the second period; the substance of the foetus has the form of flesh and no longer the form of semen. Accordingly you would find that Hippocrates too no longer calls such a form semen but, as was said, foetus. The third period follows on this, when, as was said, it is possible to see the three ruling parts clearly and a kind of outline, a silhouette, as it were, of all the other parts. You will see the conformation of the three ruling parts more clearly, that of the parts of the stomach more dimly, and much more still, that of the limbs. Later on they form “twigs”, as Hippocrates expressed it, indicating by the term their similarity to branches.

The fourth and final period is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated; and at this part Hippocrates the marvellous no longer calls the foetus an embryo only, but already a child, too when he says that it jerks and moves as an animal now fully formed.”

Galen further goes on to describe the embryo as a plant

“But for the present I need not speak of the foetus as an animal, for as a plant it got all its generation and formation from the semen, and right from the start it indicated, as plants do, that the beginning of its motion and formation was two-fold. The downward and underground growth of roots in plants corresponds in the foetus to the growth of the arteries and veins of the chorion to the uterus; and the ascending stalk in plants corresponds to the out growths from the three ruling parts in embryos. Again, just as plants have a two-fold growth from seeds, sending stalk and branches upward as far as the outer most shoots and dividing the root-growth downward, so also the embryos have much-divided outgrowths consisting in arteries and veins that extend as stalks to the whole foetus and as roots to the uterus.” (Corpus Medicorum Graecorum: Galeni de Semine: Galen: On Semen (Greek text with English trans. Phillip de Lacy, Akademic Verlag, 1992) section I:9:1-10, pp. 91-95)

Galen taught that the embryo transformed from possessing the life of a plant to that of an animal, and the umbilicus was made the root in the analogy with a plant. The embryo formed firstly, from menstrual blood, and secondly, from blood brought by the umbilical cord, and the way the blood it turns into the embryo is made clearer as follows: “If you cut open the vein of an animal and let the blood flow out into moderately hot water, the formation of a coagulum very like the substance of the liver will be seen to take place.” And in effect this viscus, according to Galen, is formed before the heart.

The blood of the embryo was thought to pass from the heart to the lungs and not vice versa. Respiration was thought to occur via the umbilical cord embryo and waste excreted into the allantois. Male foetuses were believed to form quicker than female ones because of the male germs superior heat and dryness. Galen also held the Aristotelian concept which associated male conception with the right side and the female with the left of the womb and intra-uterine movements were said to be felt sooner in the case of the male than in that of the female. Dry foods eaten by the mother, were proposed to lead to a more rapid development of the foetus than other kinds.
http://www.islamicwritings.org/quran/medical-miracles/does-the-quran-plagiarise-ancient-greek-embryology/

Read also:
http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/essays-articles/prophetic-studies/did-the-prophet-muhammad-plagiarise-hellenic-embryology/

 

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