Author Topic: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?  (Read 13717 times)

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Offline thetruthseeker

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The Quran commands the Jews in verse 5:44 to judge using the Torah. And in the verse 5:47, it commands: "Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein."

Why does Quran command Christians and Jews to judge by the Gospel and Torah when Muslims say it is corrupted?

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2015, 09:09:26 PM »
For more info, you can refer
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=1940

~~~
in Quran 5:44, the exchanges of verses for small price
in Quran 5:45, Jews were suppose to judge or punish on crimes carried out. After all in the past twice they were expelled from their covenant land. Yet they still take lightly the commands of God.

in Quran 5:46 gospel was sent to prophet Jesus (pbuh). So revelations that came out from the mouth of Jesus reinforced by Holy Spirit  were the gospel.

Gospel is not collection of narrations from different authors few centuries later in Greek telling the stories about the life of Jesus.

~~~

as for act of corruption is mentioned in Quran 6:91

Offline thetruthseeker

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2015, 05:39:43 AM »

Gospel is not collection of narrations from different authors few centuries later in Greek telling the stories about the life of Jesus.


Can you provide proof of this claim please?

Also, when and where was the Bible corrupted since the Quran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2015, 09:20:00 AM »
 26 Greek books containing stories about Jesus from various authors and also containing letters of Paul were selected to form a corpus in 3rd/4th century.

Thats few hundred years after Jesus ascend to heaven. The selection was made among many other Greek books. And in the end, 26 Greek books are ascertained to be cannon. And others are heresy Greek books.

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Satan has his ways to falsify the covenant sent by God for mankind.
But Words of God can never be changed as the Creator have been sending His messengers to fight falsehood promised to be spread by Satan till end of days.

However Words of God written in books or on piece of paper can be altered. Depends on how the scribes get misled by Satan to spread falsehood.

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2015, 10:39:46 AM »
26 Greek books containing stories about Jesus from various authors and also containing letters of Paul were selected to form a corpus in 3rd/4th century.

Thats few hundred years after Jesus ascend to heaven. The selection was made among many other Greek books. And in the end, 26 Greek books are ascertained to be cannon. And others are heresy Greek books.

~~~
Satan has his ways to falsify the covenant sent by God for mankind.
But Words of God can never be changed as the Creator have been sending His messengers to fight falsehood promised to be spread by Satan till end of days.

However Words of God written in books or on piece of paper can be altered. Depends on how the scribes get misled by Satan to spread falsehood.

There are 5800 manuscripts with the oldest dating back to 125 AD. The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure. That is an amazing accuracy. In addition, there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.

Yes, writings in books and on paper can be altered, but as Christians, we believe that God has preserved His Word in the Bible. Even with variants between the manuscripts, they do not change meaning of the text.

If Allah is powerless to stop people from corrupting his message, can we even trust the Quran?

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2015, 09:19:27 PM »
How is Allah powerless?, He sent His prophets to preserve His message.

And Islam is the only covenant where even generations later.. The later generations still do not alter the words of God. And the later generations still do not make partners to the Creator.

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2015, 09:25:43 PM »
yes you said 5800 manuscripts with the oldest dating back to 125 AD. But there are also other Greek books much older than 125AD but they were claimed to be heretic books.

And all those Greek books do not have chain of narrations , transmission of authors/scribes linking it back to the early followers of Jesus

Also the books were not in one corpus.Only generations later in 4th century, the Hellenistic Christians began to follow  a corpus made of 26/27 Greek books and letters.

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2015, 05:14:40 AM »
You said:
However Words of God written in books or on piece of paper can be altered.

By the statement you made, you have made Allah powerless to preserve His Word that has been written down.

Christians do not believe that God is powerless to protect His Word that has been written down.

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2015, 08:41:51 AM »
Based on such logic, you might as well question God why when His Words were written on piece of paper. The paper containing the Words of God deteriorates over time, why is God powerless preserved the papers with written Words of God.


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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2015, 09:05:54 AM »
Based on such logic, you might as well question God why when His Words were written on piece of paper. The paper containing the Words of God deteriorates over time, why is God powerless preserved the papers with written Words of God.

Which is why He had scribes copy His Words that were written on papyrus. He protected it. His Word will be protected for all time because He said it would be. But not based on what you said. Your claim puts Allah powerless to do this. Christianity believes God is able to do this and has done this.

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2015, 11:10:59 PM »
The preservation of God's Word is thru confirmation and restoration by His prophets. That was what Yhwh command His Servants, the prophets to do.

The prophets restore the message of worshiping One God against those making partners to God. The prophets restore/confirm previous Words of God concealed/altered by scribes.

As for Greek books, they are narrations about the life of Jesus and also about how Paul met Jesus in the desert from the point of view of Helenistic followers. As generations past, only 27 Greek books were to be adhered by Helenistic Christians.

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2015, 01:23:39 AM »
To make the point more clear.

Just because Allah allowed humans to change the message which was taken to be as His word on Earth, doesn't mean that Allah was powerless to stop that.
It is the same as like when God allows all the suffering in the world, it doesn't mean that He is powerless to end it. It is according to His plan for humans.

The truthfulness of whether a particular alleged God is the actual God, depends on testing the promises that He makes. As far as I know, Allah never promised that all the divinely inspired books, in the hands of humans, will remain corruption-free till the end of time. Therefore, if such happens, it cannot be used as an argument for His refutation. This is according to, what is apparently, His plan for the humans.

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2015, 05:28:13 AM »
To make the point more clear.

Just because Allah allowed humans to change the message which was taken to be as His word on Earth, doesn't mean that Allah was powerless to stop that.
It is the same as like when God allows all the suffering in the world, it doesn't mean that He is powerless to end it. It is according to His plan for humans.

The truthfulness of whether a particular alleged God is the actual God, depends on testing the promises that He makes. As far as I know, Allah never promised that all the divinely inspired books, in the hands of humans, will remain corruption-free till the end of time. Therefore, if such happens, it cannot be used as an argument for His refutation. This is according to, what is apparently, His plan for the humans.

I guess that is the difference between the Bible and the Quran, in this context.

The doctrine of preservation in regard to the Bible means that the Lord has kept His Word intact as to its original meaning. Preservation simply means that we can trust the Scriptures because God has sovereignly overseen the process of transmission over the centuries.

At the same time, Christians are aware that we do not possess the original writings/autographs. What we do have are thousands of manuscripts from which the original writings can be ascertained. By thorough examination and comparison of those manuscripts, it is determined what the original writings stated. This does not mean that there are absolutely no differences between the manuscripts. But the differences are extremely small and insignificant and do not in any way affect the basic teachings or meaning of God’s Word. The differences are things like minor spelling variations. We should keep in mind that this would not and does not affect the accuracy of Scripture, nor does it mean that God has not preserved His Word. God has supernaturally kept or preserved His Word.

The early scribes, whose jobs were to make exact copies of Scripture, were very meticulous. One example of their scrupulous precision is the practice of counting all the letters in a given book and noting the middle letter of the book. They would then do the same for the copy to make sure it matched. They employed such time-consuming and painstaking methods to ensure accuracy.

Further, we can take note of the following verses that demonstrate God’s plan to preserve His Word. In Matthew 5:18, Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” In this verse Jesus declared that not even the smallest stroke of a letter would pass away until all is accomplished. He couldn’t make that promise unless He was sure that God would preserve His Word. Jesus also said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33). Jesus again affirms that God’s Word will not pass away. God’s Word will remain and accomplish that which God has planned.

The prophet Isaiah, through the power of the Holy Spirit, stated that God’s Word would remain forever. “The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8). This was reaffirmed in the New Testament when Peter quoted the same passage and referred to it as “the word that was preached to you” (1 Peter 1:24-25). Neither Isaiah nor Peter could make such statements without the understanding of God’s preservation of Scripture.

In Psalms 12:6-7 it says, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

We have these promises from God in the Bible, therefore, we trust that all that is written in the Bible as God wanted all of it to be there.

Thanks for the conversation! :)

Offline thetruthseeker

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2015, 05:30:29 AM »
To make the point more clear.

Just because Allah allowed humans to change the message which was taken to be as His word on Earth, doesn't mean that Allah was powerless to stop that.
It is the same as like when God allows all the suffering in the world, it doesn't mean that He is powerless to end it. It is according to His plan for humans.

The truthfulness of whether a particular alleged God is the actual God, depends on testing the promises that He makes. As far as I know, Allah never promised that all the divinely inspired books, in the hands of humans, will remain corruption-free till the end of time. Therefore, if such happens, it cannot be used as an argument for His refutation. This is according to, what is apparently, His plan for the humans.

I guess that is the difference between the Bible and the Quran, in this context.

The doctrine of preservation in regard to the Bible means that the Lord has kept His Word intact as to its original meaning. Preservation simply means that we can trust the Scriptures because God has sovereignly overseen the process of transmission over the centuries.

At the same time, Christians are aware that we do not possess the original writings/autographs. What we do have are thousands of manuscripts from which the original writings can be ascertained. By thorough examination and comparison of those manuscripts, it is determined what the original writings stated. This does not mean that there are absolutely no differences between the manuscripts. But the differences are extremely small and insignificant and do not in any way affect the basic teachings or meaning of God’s Word. The differences are things like minor spelling variations. We should keep in mind that this would not and does not affect the accuracy of Scripture, nor does it mean that God has not preserved His Word. God has supernaturally kept or preserved His Word.

The early scribes, whose jobs were to make exact copies of Scripture, were very meticulous. One example of their scrupulous precision is the practice of counting all the letters in a given book and noting the middle letter of the book. They would then do the same for the copy to make sure it matched. They employed such time-consuming and painstaking methods to ensure accuracy.

Further, we can take note of the following verses that demonstrate God’s plan to preserve His Word. In Matthew 5:18, Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” In this verse Jesus declared that not even the smallest stroke of a letter would pass away until all is accomplished. He couldn’t make that promise unless He was sure that God would preserve His Word. Jesus also said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33). Jesus again affirms that God’s Word will not pass away. God’s Word will remain and accomplish that which God has planned.

The prophet Isaiah, through the power of the Holy Spirit, stated that God’s Word would remain forever. “The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8). This was reaffirmed in the New Testament when Peter quoted the same passage and referred to it as “the word that was preached to you” (1 Peter 1:24-25). Neither Isaiah nor Peter could make such statements without the understanding of God’s preservation of Scripture.

In Psalms 12:6-7 it says, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

We have these promises from God in the Bible, therefore, we trust that all that is written in the Bible as God wanted all of it to be there.

Thanks for the conversation! :)

Sorry, it seems I made an emoticon again. The scripture reference was Isaiah 40:8.

Offline thetruthseeker

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2015, 05:33:22 AM »
The truthfulness of whether a particular alleged God is the actual God, depends on testing the promises that He makes.

That is a great point and when applied to the Bible, we see that God, as described in the Bible, is the actual God because He keeps His promises.

 

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