Author Topic: rebuttal to ali sina  (Read 32362 times)

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Offline muzi123

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rebuttal to ali sina
« on: January 04, 2013, 05:05:01 PM »
 I will be responding to SOME of the points of ali sina he brings up silly arguments which is not worth to respond.
He said
At no time it was “perfectly normal” for an old man to marry little girls. In the old days parents use to betroth their children, sometimes in their infancy. This was done until very recently (70 years ago) in some villages in Iran.  Gandhi and his wife were ten and nine years old when they married. That is not what we are talking about. We are talking about an old man having sex with a little girl. We are talking about pedophilia.  It is normal for children to fall in love.  They fall in love with another child of their own age. But it is not normal for a fifty year old man to fall in love with a six year old girl.

Response
First of all she was not a child because she was in PUBERTY before she even met the prophet  Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of  PUBERTY  Not a day passed but the Prophet visited us, both in the mornings and evenings sahih bukhari book 8 hadith 465 . Definition of puberty is
Puberty is a normal phase of development that occurs when a child's body transitions into an ADULT BODY and readies for the possibility of reproduction. So we see aisha was not a child she was an adult before she even met the prophet so your information that she was a child is WRONG. Also age doesn’t matter e.g if you was going to get married and i say don’t get married your wife is ugly you will say what is your problem i find her attractive or she is my type and prophet Muhammad and aisha they both agreed to get married they both lived a happy life so what is your problem why are you interfering and we see she is an adult. And you said it is not normal for a fifty year old man to faill in love with a six year old girl again WRONG prophet Muhammad pbuh NEVER WENT NEAR her when she was six he waited 3 years so he didn’t fall in love with her at 6 WRONG AGAIN provide evidence. You said it was not normal if that was the case then the enemys would of attacked him and said something like o Muhammad you marrying 9 year old your 50 or they would of called him a paedophile   no they didn’t so that is a proof it was normal. My Challenge give me 1 islamic source where the enemies called the prophet a paedophile  so therefore it was normal so no 1 objected.

.Joseph 90 years old married mary at 12 years old isn’t joseph old
.Richard II, aged 29, married 2nd wife Isabella of Valois in 1396 when she was 6, isn’ Richard old .
King James I, aged 23, married Anne of Denmark when she was 14.
Charles 1,aged 25, married Henrietta Marie of France when she was 13
Even at 6 years old aisha was in puberty so she is classed as an adult according to the dictionary. and still prophet Muhammad waited 3 years so she then she was a fully grown adult.
Ali sina said
A six year old child is not in any position to choose her life partner. In the case of Aisha she probably thought this is normal because even her benighted parents had consented to this shameful betrayal of their trust.
We are not concerned about Aisha. She is dead. We are concerned about millions of little girls who are victimized today because of this tradition set by Muhammad.

Response
Firstly ali sina doesn’t make sence  aisha is classed as an adult when she is 9 so she could of objected then. she has a brain of an adult. For sake of argument you say she was a child ok  when aisha was 13 14 15 16 17  why didn’t she divorce then she had the choice and she wasn’t forced into the marriage i challenge you.She had a choice to divorce.
 You claim millions of little girls are victimized because of Muhammad i challenge you Muhammad pbuh never said to marry 9 year old bring 1 hadith.  Also today  hindues get married to little girls so stop blaiming Muhammad pbuh. This is what a hindu says  14-year-old Lalita Saini will soon go and live with her 19-year-old husband from a neighbouring village. “I was married around Akha Teej last year, but I don’t know my husband as I only saw him once at the wedding,” said the meek, pony-tailed little girl, a blue scarf draped over her head. “I didn’t want to get married, but I had no choice.” The festival, known more widely outside Rajasthan as Akshaya Tritiya, celebrates the birthday of the sixth incarnation of Vishnu, the preserver of life in the Hindu pantheon.”
http://indiapulse.sulekha.com/forums/hindus-for-rational-hinduism_hindu-child-brides
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58QQqUrYwNQ – These girls are hindues getting married at young age
http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/05/is-child-marriage-a-muslim-problem/
Child marriages, outlawed in India in 1929, are still common in many parts of the country, especially in rural and poorer communities, AFP said. A Unicef report says 47 percent of married women in India wed before age 18. Unicef also says 40 percent of the world’s child marriages take place in India.
“I was unhappy about the marriage,” Sargara, now 18, told AFP. “I told my parents who did not agree with me, then I sought help. Now I am mentally relaxed and my family members are also with me.”. .There are millions of hindues getting married at young age. India is a hindu country to. So stop blaiming Muhammad pbuh also there are many CHRISTIAN child brides in Africa.





Ali sina says
To say Aisha was given the choice to divorce Muhammad is a silly argument. Divorce him and were to go? Medina had become the compound of Muhammad and every Muslim had become a cultist. The atmosphere was full of terror. How could she live a normal life after divorcing Muhammad? Anyway, this did not apply to Aisha who was brainwashed since childhood.

My response
First of all women have a right to divorce in islam. quran O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness4.19 so clearly in this verse you cannot force them so Aisha was a women so she could decide herself if she wanted to get divorced she had 3 years to break the marriage then she could of stayed with her mother  . Provide evidence she was brainwashed stop claiming you have no evidence. Aisha was not like a common 9 year old as we see today aisha was very mature and she acted like an adult mentally and she knew right from wrong.
The Fact of reaching puberty is meant of  becoming an adult in terms of MATURITY,BEHAVIOUR and RESPONSIBILITY.
 [58 to 63]which comesfromwestern source's:JournalofsocialHistoryOnlineEtymologyDictionary
Journal of marriageand family etc.









It was Aisha’s parents who approved of this marriage. They deemed it good to marry their daughter to the Holy Prophet (S), and indeed they did a great thing, as Aisha grew up to be a great scholar of Islam!
 







Ali sina says
Aisha was no scholar. She was someone who remembered what Muhammad did and said and narrated them. That does not make her a scholar. But then again, all Muslim scholars are of that kind.  They are a bunch of ignoramuses who have memorized the hadith and the Quran mindlessly, but understand nothing and cannot reason like normal people.  I have not memorized any of that garbage, but I can defeat all Muslim scholars because I understand Islam.  Anyone can do that. If you understand Islam you can defeat all Muslim scholars.  If you read my book, you will understand Islam.
My response
Again you are WRONG Aisha was a scholar definition of a scholar is A specialist in a particular branch of study, esp. the humanities; a distinguished academic: "a Hebrew scholar".
Aisha was a specialist in islam you go to a scholor  to seek knowledge similarly the companions went to aisha when they needed help and to learn about islam.  If we read the history of aisha she narrated over 2210 from age 9-18. About the prophet but this doesn’t convince you ok. By reading the biography of aisha you can clearly see she was a scholar where men would ask her specific questions AND CHALLENGING questions about islam and she was able to answer all of them.Also she was able to answer questions about islam finance which is difficult to grasp  Al-Tirmidhi narrates in Kitab al-Manaaqib in "Chapter: The Virtues of Aa'isah (may Allaah be pleased with her)" from Abu Moosaa who said, "Never did any hadeeth become difficult for us, the companions of Allaah's Messenger, and we asked Aa'ishah except that we found she had knowledge regarding it." Saheeh (Saheeh Sunan al-Tirmidhi, no. 3883)..
Al-Tirmidhi narrates in Kitab al-Manaaqib in "Chapter: The Virtues of Aa'isah (may Allaah be pleased with her)" from Moosaa bin Talhah, who said, "I have not seen anyone more eloquent (afsah) than Aa'ishah." Saheeh (Saheeh Sunan al-Tirmidhi, no. 3884).
Aisha was good at mathematics Had broad ranging knowledge across many different fields including fiqh, history, poetry, tafseer, faraa'id, medicine.
Aisha is a foundation of understanding of the prophets life without her there will be no islam why would companions go to her and ask questions  so obviously   she was a scholar she was a specialist in islam  so your claim has been refuted. We can bring 1000s of evidence aisha was a scholor.

Ali sina says
an we honestly say Aisha (R) would’ve remained with the Holy Prophet (S) after she was allegedly “molested”? We must remember that Aisha (R) was very wise, and a great orator and she was quick to comment when she saw something wrong. If she was in any way, shape or form “molested” by the Holy Prophet (S), then she would’ve never remained married to him!
 
Having sex with a child is molesting her. There is no other way to put it. The fact that the victim is not aware of the abuse does not mean that the abuse does not take place.  There are many cases of children that are abducted and abused for years and they get used to it and do not escape even when they have a chance. The case of Elizabeth Smart is a good example.
She was kidnapped raped daily but when found by police she was not cooperating and claimed to be someone else.    You must read the chapter titled Psychology of Fear in the latest edition of my book to understand this phenomenon.
 
My response
Again she WASNT A CHILD SHE SAID HER SELF WHEN A GIRL IS 9 SHE IS  A WOMEN When a girl is nine years old, sheis a  (Tirmidhi, Hadith 1109) .. definition of a women is An adult human female. She can decide herself what is right and wrong. Ok you claim on your website that Muhammad pbuh beat her  hadith in sahih muslim infact he didn’t beat her thats been refuted but you use that to support your own argument that look aisha said herself Muhammad beat her.So therefore for sake of argument say if Muhammad beat her which he didn’t   AISHA KNOWS WHAT BEATING IS then she would of narrated a hadith after the prophet that he treated me badly etc but she didn’t she was happy with the prophet. And I challenge you to show me where aisha was displeased with Muhammad pbuh. So she wasn’t used to it Muhammad pbuh never beat her. What has Elizabeth got to do with it.

Ali sina said Do we honestly think if Aisha (R) were alive today, she would support people like Ali Sina, who claim she was molested, and that her husband was a “pedophile”??
 
Probably not! Aisha was so victimized that she had no understanding of what is normal.  Many Muslims are unaware of the abuse that they suffer. But when they leave Islam and start seeing the abuse, it is then that they come to despise Muhammad. This does not happen with ex-Christians, ex-Jews or ex-Hindus. Only ex-Muslims see the extent of abuse. Others simply leave their faiths and say it was a lie. Muslims see more than lie. They also see the abuse. Brainwashed people don’t see the abuse.



My response AGAIN she said her self she was a women so she knows what is right and wrong and as we see from her biography she was very clever she is physically and mentally mature so obvisly she would of known what being abused is. And again you quote the hadith muhammmad struck her then there obviously you will say aisha knew what beating is she narrated it herself but obviously that hadith in sahih muslim doesn’t refer to beating

Ali sina Sahih Muslim
Book 006, Number 2439:
‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) used to kiss (his wives) while fasting and embraced (them) while fasting; but he had the greatest mastery over his desire among you.
Thus, according to the words of our Mother Aisha (R), the Holy Prophet (S) had the greatest control over his desire amongst the people. Thus, Aisha (R) herself has refuted the Christian missionaries, and anti-Islamic haters like Ali Sina with these quotes of hers!
How Aisha would know that?  Did she have any experience with other men to compare Muhammad with them?  That is another subject. She did have a fling with Safwan.  However, what she interpreted as “mastery over desire” was due to Muhammad’s inability to perform.  He contented himself with foreplay, and fondling. He “drank their honey” as one hadith puts it,  but he could not perform intercourse.  I have dedicated several pages in my book to Muhammad’s impotence.


My response
You quote the hadith on your site that aisha married her ok how did she know what the meaning of marriage was you quote the hadith muhamamad pbuh had sex with her how would she know what sex meant so this proves she was mature she was clever she knew the meaning of these words because she was an adult. so your argument fails she was engaged before Muhammad pbuh so she knew. She obviously knew what is meant of controlling sexual desires thats why you wont find many hadith Muhammad pbuh had sex with her. And obvisly controlling sexual desires you don’t need to be experienced you will just know what it is meant by controlling staying away and obviously you don’t have to be clever to know that

Conclusion
Ali sina is a sick person who needs treatment he brings up stupid arguments you don’t need to be knowledgable in refuting him just use your brain
Ali sina article -http://alisina.org/blog/2011/03/10/was-muhammad-a-pedophile/

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 11:36:11 PM »
peace
You should add in some more examples, like Mary Hathaway (Virginia, 1689) was only 9 when she was married to William Williams., according to the tosafot, you should also get some information from
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4yyx1qDWhQ (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEwmfIgSQQU (Part 2)
also read
http://www.faqs.org/childhood/A-Ar/Age-of-Consent.html
According to the tosafot, a medieval jewish commentary, Jewish Ashkenazi communities in the Middle Ages, girls were married off very young.
also destroy him with Answering Christianity's own articles about such topics.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/minimum_age_for_marriage.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/cant_force_marriage.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/aisha.htm
Also use other website's info, like this
http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2011/03/muhammad-beat-aisha.html
peace

Offline muzi123

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2013, 02:07:27 AM »
yes jazakhallah khair and sorry for few spelling mistakes

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2013, 02:43:08 AM »
peace
glad i could help pal
btw, i switched part 1 and part 2, i meant the opposite
Also make sure to read ALL the articles i posted and watch ALL  the videos i posted, they really help and increase islamic knowledge, they also provide sources.

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2013, 07:26:50 AM »
How do you contact this guy? 'In Sha' Allah I am going to wipe the floor with this guy in a debate.

Offline Black Muslim

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2013, 08:29:10 AM »
What a filthy PIG this guy Sina is ! I feel like I want to grab him and put his head in the toilet ! He's SICK ! He only thinks about sex ! Sex sex sex sex sex sex sex ! What an erotic disgusting man ! I don't know how can the hypocrites of USA leave this man free ! He's a danger to the public security ! This man and his goons should be chased to the ends of the world , arrested , and thrown in jail for at least 30 years ! He CLEARLY says that he supports nuking the WORLD ! And moreover , he's a coward Christian hiding behind a computer screen and doesn't have the nerve show his face . He's sadistic and self-centered . He keeps praising himself thinking he's a deity . I don't doubt that a dog would bite him and piss if he see him one day . I'm telling you people , this man is a hopeless case . He's an example of the COMPLETELY brainwashed ignorant fools who believe every lie said about Islam . This guy doesn't deserve to be called a human . So take my advice , Ramzi , don't waste your time with him and his goons of pigs . I argued with them TWICE . And they were always doing the same thing , they lie , run away , and open these filthy holes they call "mouths" . We can only do two things about them . Either we let these dogs bark by themselves , or we object about this filthy toilet of theirs and demand to shut it down .

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2013, 08:52:45 AM »
L'In Sha' Allah let's find a way to show the whole world, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, what liars Ali Sina and his crew are.

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2013, 09:26:31 AM »
Let's make a lengthy video exposing the filthy lies all those Islamophobes 'In Sha' Allah. If you guys consider add me on Facebook. My name is Ramzi Abughazaleh and my picture is the Prophet's (may Almighty Allah bless him and his family and grant them peace) mosque and La 'Ilaha 'Illa Allah.

Offline muzi123

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2013, 09:30:57 AM »
ali sina is not his real name he needs to be killed i think wht do u guys think because he mocks the prophet

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2013, 10:07:12 AM »
We should kill somebody who mocks Prophet Muhammad (may Almighty Allah bless him and his family and grant them peace)?

Offline There is only one God

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2013, 10:19:54 AM »
We should kill somebody who mocks Prophet Muhammad (may Almighty Allah bless him and his family and grant them peace)?

yes

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 01:33:21 AM »
no we shouldn't KILL him!!!
Should we refute him? yes
Should we mock him? yes
Should we do the video thing that was suggested? yes
But in no way we should kill him

The prophet NEVER killed anyone who mocked him.
The story that the prophet killed ANYONE who mocked him purely for that charge, the stories you hear are ALL FORGERIES.
read: http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/forgeries_about_killing.htm
PS in addition to this article, i would like our friends in answering Christianity to add this additional information.
Youve only explained the flaw in ibn ishaq's version, Ill explain the ibn saad version, it has 2 flaws.
1. It contins Al Waqidi, who is VERY weak, almost unanimously
2. this isnad is discontinued (muʻḍal) as Al-Harith ibn al-Fudayl never met any of Muhammad's companions.

Offline RamziBinNabil

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2013, 07:04:15 AM »
Jazak Allah Zulfiqar.
I just asked because I heard an Islamophobe say it before.

Offline Black Muslim

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2013, 04:41:10 AM »
Careful ! insulting God , Islam , or the prophet peace upon him is a crime that deserve death as a punishment . The Islamic nation stands with religion . It's the pillar that holds it and keeps it from collapsing . Messing with that pillar and trying to take it down with these filthy and dirty methods means fighting the whole nation of Islam . It means fighting a billion and a half of humans - If we don't count the Jins - . That's why , if it was a Muslim doing it then he's an apostate who commits treason . And if it was a Non-Muslim then he breaks the treaty  and deserves killing .

Here are some links showing that no scholar disagreed with this :
http://www.islamweb.net/media/index.php?page=article&lang=A&id=111861
http://islamqa.info/ar/ref/22809
http://ar.islamway.net/article/886
http://www.saaid.net/Doat/ehsan/128-3.htm

And I would like to ask these criminals who claim to support the human rights . If letting your foul mouths go and insulting every holy thing in Islam is freedom , then why don't you do the same when we talk about Jews ? If somebody says "The so called incident of burning 6 million Jews is not true" then he is called a criminal and accused of racism . Lately , when somebody made a picture mocking the royal family of Spain , he was punished and was forced to pay a few thousands Euros . Where's your freedom ? What a hypocrisy .

Offline Tanveer

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Re: rebuttal to ali sina
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 09:41:05 AM »
Is criticism classed as an insult?

 

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